Solheim Cup 2015

rrpc

After the morning foursomes it was 2-2 but the afternoon fourballs was poised at 2 1/2 - 1 1/2 before play was suspended due to risk of lightning.

Some great golf being played.

rrpc

Charlie Hull having a stormer. Four birdies in a row and just dropping them beside the flag.

Nordqvist and Hedwall have just won their match 4 & 3. Hull and Nocera are 3 up with 4 to go, Reid and Ciganda are A/S after 12 and Masson and Gal are 1 up after 11.

Mr. Guappa

Really entertaining golf this morning.. Europe take the session 3-1 and lead 8-4 now. Hull and Pettersen birdied the last 4 to come from 3 down with 4 to play to beat Creamer and Pressel.

rrpc

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Really entertaining golf this morning.. Europe take the session 3-1 and lead 8-4 now. Hull and Pettersen birdied the last 4 to come from 3 down with 4 to play to beat Creamer and Pressel.

Switched over to the rugby and missed it. Charlie Hull is turning into the ladies' Poulter

LinksLad

rrpc wrote: »

Switched over to the rugby and missed it. Charlie Hull is turning into the ladies' Poulter

Please not Poulter!

She does remind me a lot of the young Sergio, having a go at the tightest of pins from behind trees and all that. An all-or-nothing aggressive player. Great to watch in any sport/game.

Boskowski

Find it remarkable that on both day 1 and day 2 they couldn't finish due to incredibly slow play and running out of daylight. I heard the commentator saying the Hull/Pettersen group was put on the clock after it took them 3.5 hrs to play 11 holes. I like watching ladies golf but this is ridiculous.

First Up

Boskowski wrote: »

Find it remarkable that on both day 1 and day 2 they couldn't finish due to incredibly slow play and running out of daylight. I heard the commentator saying the Hull/Pettersen group was put on the clock after it took them 3.5 hrs to play 11 holes. I like watching ladies golf but this is ridiculous.

It's beyond ridiculous but its the Americans mostly to blame. Watched someone take best part of 3 minutes over a 90 yard pitch.

me89

Horrible sportsmanship from team Europe.

blackcard

The Americans were all square on the 17th and had a 10 foot putt to win the hole. They missed and the ball rolled a foot past the hole. Americans picked the ball up presuming that the Europeans had conceded. Hole was awarded to the Europeans who went on to win by one hole.

Avatar MIA

blackcard wrote: »

The Americans were all square on the 17th and had a 10 foot putt to win the hole. They missed and the ball rolled a foot past the hole. Americans picked the ball up presuming that the Europeans had conceded. Hole was awarded to the Europeans who went on to win by one hole.

Where's the controversy? Rules applied.

Now, if it had been the other way around

ECO_Mental

me89 wrote: »

Horrible sportsmanship from team Europe.

Yeah its bad, listening to sky atm and there is a yank on trashing Europe, but I think all this bad blood started back in 2000 when the yanks made Anika Sorenstam re take a shot where she chipped in off the green to level the match. The yank was on the green herself but after it went in they decided she was closet and she played out of turn. Now that's bad form.

blueser

Apparently the same player was warned twice yesterday about picking up early. Once you can (sort of) understand; young girl, nerves, big occasion etc etc. But three times? That's careless.

yipsnomore

It 'looks' bad in isolation but do we know what was going on in the match up to then? Need the whole story before we judge.

A New earth

While the Europeans are strictly correct there are a few things that would would make you understand the US belief that it was unsportsmanlike:-

- Putt was c. 16 inches and these have been given all through the matches

- One of the opponents Hull who was near the hole had turned and walked away

- the other opponent was a long way away

It was unfortunate but I wish the commentators would talk about something else i.e. the singles matches that are now going on.

rooney30

The Americans are labouring the point that the Europeans had turned away and walked off the green, while this is not technically a concession, is was interpreted as such.
The European captain was given the option by the referee on the following hole,of halving the 17th , ie retrospectively conceding the putt, but she refused.

Eaglebridie 32

rooney30 wrote: »

The Americans are labouring the point that the Europeans had turned away and walked off the green, while this is not technically a concession, is was interpreted as such.
The European captain was given the option by the referee on the following hole,of halving the 17th , ie retrospectively conceding the putt, but she refused.

I may be reading it wrong but I don't think that's correct. The result of the 17th hole couldn't be retrospectively changed, one of the Europeen players asked the referee, "was there anything that could be done to put it right", the referee explained the only option was for the Europeans to concede the 18th hole and call a half match, this was declined by the European Captain.

G1032

yipsnomore wrote: »

It 'looks' bad in isolation but do we know what was going on in the match up to then? Need the whole story before we judge.

No. I disagree. No matter what did or didn't happen previously, what Pettersen did was a disgrace. It was appalling behaviour

slave1

Hmmm, very interesting, I'd say Petterson was pissed off with yer wan picking up early and said I'll teach her a lesson.
Have it turned on now so awaiting her reception when teeing off shortly

pcasso

G1032 wrote: »

No. I disagree. No matter what did or didn't happen previously, what Pettersen did was a disgrace. It was appalling behaviour

While I agree that Pettersen was in the wrong I think that that context can in some way decree how much she erred.
Hypothetically if you were playing a matchplay and your opponent twice picked up short putts which you hadn't conceded, and you warned them about same and the proceeded to pick up a short putt on the seventeenth that you hadn't planned to concede, then I suspect you would be at least tempted to call foul

Armchair Andy

Just saw it there. Bad form from Petterson

LuckyGent88

Just tuning into this controversy too. Will have to see the incident first but personally I can't see what Peterson did wrong.
If Lee picked up the ball before a putt was conceded then she broke the rules. She can't presume it was given just because it was only 16inches to the whole. Tight match so understandable that you may make your opponent putt it.

In terms of people calling the incident disgusting is a bit over the top IMO. Europe were entitled to claim the hole but personally for sportsmanship reasons they should have let the incident go.

slave1

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/controversy-17-solheim-cup/

G1032

pcasso wrote: »

While I agree that Pettersen was in the wrong I think that that context can in some way decree how much she erred.
Hypothetically if you were playing a matchplay and your opponent twice picked up short putts which you hadn't conceded, and you warned them about same and the proceeded to pick up a short putt on the seventeenth that you hadn't planned to concede, then I suspect you would be at least tempted to call foul

The problem I have is that Hull walked away. By this action she as good as conceded without actually saying the words "take it away " or whatever. It looks like she has then been overruled, for want of a better word, by Pettersen. It was extremely petty and terribly unsporting what she did. As a senior player with oceans of experience she should know better.

slave1

This guy is pretty clear, looks like the Euro were just walking over towards the ref and not to the next tee...

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/referee-dan-maselli-comments-controversy-17/

Armchair Andy

Apparently Brittany Lincicome had told Lee not to pick it up either. According to Koch anyway

slave1

US guys could still have won on 18 if they were capable and halved the match, just whinging now, in the footage you can see the Euro caddy's immediate reaction when Lee picked up the ball

G1032

slave1 wrote: »

This guy is pretty clear, looks like the Euro were just walking over towards the ref and not to the next tee...

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/referee-dan-maselli-comments-controversy-17/

Charlie Hull wasn't walking over to any referee. Did she not start walking off before the ball actually stopped??

slave1

G1032 wrote: »

Charlie Hull wasn't walking over to any referee. Did she not start walking off before the ball actually stopped??

Off camera where she walked to but according to what the ref said they were walking towards him, often see it where they all get out of the picture and watch from afar when making an opponent putt out.
I though it was brutal first time around but now warming to the decision.

The Solheim Cup is not a learning ground for basic rules after all.

LuckyGent88

slave1 wrote: »

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/controversy-17-solheim-cup/

Now on seeing the video I genuinely don't see what Peterson did wrong. She hadn't made any move away from the green. Hull appears to be moving over to her playing partner. Neither of them have obviously said that the putt was given. Europe are then entitled to claim the hole.

blueser

Why did Lee do it though? She had been warned/told about it twice earlier in the day If you've been warned twice about something, yet continue to do it, you can't whine about being pulled up for it.

slave1

blueser wrote: »

Why did Lee do it though? She had been warned/told about it twice earlier in the day If you've been warned twice about something, yet continue to do it, you can't whine about being pulled up for it.

Yeah, if it was first time then I would not like that decision but third time is a joke, needs teachin' that young wan!

Mr. Guappa

Sky need to cop on with their coverage tbh. As for the Americans it's a bit rich to be hopping up and down about bad sportsmanship if Lee had been picking up unconceded putts already... surely that's cheating.

Hoof Hearted2

G1032 wrote: »

No. I disagree. No matter what did or didn't happen previously, what Pettersen did was a disgrace. It was appalling behaviour

Unfortunately you are correct, it doesn't matter what happened previously. It's disgusting behaviour by the European ladies and while they may have been technically correct, they (Petterson and Hull) will only ever be remembered tor their lack of sportmanship.

Avatar MIA

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

It's disgusting behaviour by the European ladies and while they may have been technically correct,.

To say that is to say, it's only ladies golf, the rules shouldn't matter.

Golf is all about rules. Don't sign your card properly and your round doesn't matter. Make any number of technical mistakes and you get punished. Happens all the time.

Take a Gimme when it's not been given, even though you got away with a couple of warnings previously - get punished.

Hoof Hearted2

Avatar MIA wrote: »

To say that is to say, it's only ladies golf, the rules shouldn't matter.

Golf is all about rules. Don't sign your card properly and your round doesn't matter. Make any number of technical mistakes and you get punished. Happens all the time.

Take a Gimme when it's not been given, even though you got away with a couple of warnings previously - get punished.

No it doesn't, it's not gender specific, it just so happened that this incident occured at a SC and not a RC, is that a coincidence, I'll let you decide, but remember Nickalus and Jacklin.

Golf is not all about the rules in isolation, people often forget that there are ethics and etiquette also at play, it's called the spirit of the game and can be found in the first few pages of a rules book.

First rule of concessions is that you never expect or assume to be given one (that way no one gets hurt).

Avatar MIA

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

First rule of concessions is that you never expect or assume to be given one (that way no one gets hurt).

Exactly the rule the Americans broke... 3 times before being penalised.

ForeRight

Rules are rules of course but I think Charley Hulls tears and reaction show all you need to see. She knows a wrong has been done. She was barrelling off the green before the ball was even stopped at the hole. No matter what went on before hand Peterson using that opportunity to teach Lee a lesson will forever haunt her imo.

It's not black and white so opinions will differ on this scenario.

My opinion is there will be huge regret behind the scenes on the European side

Avatar MIA

ForeRight wrote: »

My opinion is there will be huge regret behind the scenes on the European side

I think you are right. But wont have American golf fans, of all people, crying unsporting behavior.

ForeRight

Avatar MIA wrote: »

I think you are right. But wont have American golf fans, of all people, crying unsporting behavior.

I agree. I don't have sympathy for the Americans at all I actually have sympathy for the Europeans now with the tarnish of this.

Both parties were wrong imo and it's unfortunate that common sense doesn't seem to have prevailed.

slave1

ForeRight wrote: »

... but I think Charley Hulls tears and reaction show all you need to see. She knows a wrong has been done. She was barrelling off the green before the ball was even stopped at the hole...

...to stand next to her partner beside the ref at the side of the green

Not off to the next tee, sure you could see the Euro caddy motionless beside the hole still, sure I pointed it out before than you see folk do this the whole time when making opponents holes out, they clear off the green and leave the opponent isolated for the putt and watch from afar.
The ref was very clear Charley nor Petterson conceded in any form, nor any Euro caddy, team Captain or any member of the Euro team and that was from an immediate interview at the scene with all involved, no US player/caddy/team member etc heard anything regarding concede, just Lee saying she "heard something".
If it was first time then I agree it was a poor call, but the third time and with everyone waiting for to hear concede then the right call was made.
The US could always have won the 18th don't forget.
As for Hull crying, well only she can comment on why that was, remember shes young like Lee is so some empathy I suppose

slave1

just watched it back again, Hull never went any further than greenside beside Peterson and ref and Lee's partner and caddy never moved away from the missed putt either and were rooted when she picked the ball up, only ones to move were Lee and her caddy

ForeRight

As I said.

Opinions.


My opinion is what it is and won't be changed. It's poor all round and far from a black and white scenario.

Hoof Hearted2

slave1 wrote: »

just watched it back again, Hull never went any further than greenside beside Peterson and ref and Lee's partner and caddy never moved away from the missed putt either and were rooted when she picked the ball up, only ones to move were Lee and her caddy

That's all irrelevant slave, the long and the short of it is this, it's bad sportmanship on the side of the Europeans and forever more Charly Hull and Suzanne Peterson will be associated with and remembered for this incident, that's the reality, although more Peterson than Hull I'd imagine, because she is the senior partner in the pairing.
Also the Euro captain allegedly enquired as to how they could make it right and decided against conceding the 18th hole and halving the match, further acknowledgement that they know it was wrong, but decided not to do anyhting about except stick their heads in the ground and hope it goes away.

Wombatman

ForeRight wrote: »

Rules are rules of course but I think Charley Hulls tears and reaction show all you need to see

She may well have been crying in reaction to something that was said to her. I think she will come out in support of her partner in the end.

The villian of the piece, if there has to be a villian, is Lee, not Pettersen. She was the player who picked up the ball before the putt was conceded.

Pettersen is being treated most unfairly. Sky need someone strong to speak out in her behalf.

LuckyGent88

Moving on from the incident for a minute. America on fire in the singles. Firing in birdies from everywhere.

Tilikum

Delighted for Reid.

I would'nt be upset at all if the yanks won.

HighLine

How anyone is trying to justify Petterson's actions is beyond me. If Laura Davies is saying the following then... there isn't much of an argument.

https://twitter.com/clarebalding/status/645537710761971712
https://twitter.com/clarebalding/status/645538428872990720
https://twitter.com/clarebalding/status/645538963923578880

Avatar MIA

Pettersen will be forgiven if she gets the half.

Edit - looks like the US will take it.

fullstop

Stupid all round really. it looks petty and childish from Petersen, but I've had people do what the Europeans did there countless times in senior cup matches etc and I always, without fail, shout after them and ask if the putt is given incase of an eventuality like this.

slave1

Re Petterson, I see it on two fronts.

1. The evidence and especially the ref's interview is clear that Lee was in the wrong.

This splits into two...

2a, first time it happened, then suck it up Europe and move on with the holes halved, no question IMHO

2b, THIRD time it happened, player already warned on TWO previous occasions and told by her partner not to pick the ball up in the seconds leading up to her picking the ball up, then IMHO Petterson dead right

Opinion will be split on this hereafter


Shocked to see the US coming back like this :eek:

slave1

Fair dues to the US, never saw it happening, great W