Bad Language

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I appreciate that some forums allow foul language but wondered if it could be curtailed in some other forums. The Angling forum for example is regularly frequented by younger members and I feel swearing in not suitable there. It is camouflaged by inventive spelling quite often but is unnecessary all the same.

Pat Mustard

The Christianity forum charter forbids swearing etc. so there is a kind of precedent for what you request.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The Nature forum charter states "no swearing or facsimile thereof" and I would consider the clientele for both forums to be very similar.

Overheal

We pretty much encourage it in Ranting and Raving

Steve

Hi Srameen,

I was just looking at your reports on this (before I saw this) and actually sent a pm to the Angling mods / cmods to get some input.

Yes, boards is technically a PG13 (ish) site, however the odd cuss is overlooked when it's in the right context. Most of us here are Irish and it's in our nature, like it or not, to embellish tales of our daily activities with the odd profanity.
Angling, I'm sure, by it's nature is a profoundly frustrating activity, especially when you lose your tackle to a bleeping shopping trolley so it's understandable that the frustration is vocalised sometimes.

Now, there are two reasons why this thread shouldn't exist:
1: (From the reports) you have an issue with a specific forum, not the entire site - best bet there is to complain via pm to sports cmods.
2: (Again, from the reports) you have an issue with a specific user and their use of profanities in that forum - this is an issue for local mods.

Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted this and you believe it's a sitewide issue

Mrs OBumble

Define foul language.

nesf

If they're old enough to be on boards they're long past the age where they need to be shielded from swearing.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Steve wrote: »

Hi Srameen,

I was just looking at your reports on this (before I saw this) and actually sent a pm to the Angling mods / cmods to get some input.

Yes, boards is technically a PG13 (ish) site, however the odd cuss is overlooked when it's in the right context. Most of us here are Irish and it's in our nature, like it or not, to embellish tales of our daily activities with the odd profanity.
Angling, I'm sure, by it's nature is a profoundly frustrating activity, especially when you lose your tackle to a bleeping shopping trolley so it's understandable that the frustration is vocalised sometimes.

Now, there are two reasons why this thread shouldn't exist:
1: (From the reports) you have an issue with a specific forum, not the entire site - best bet there is to complain via pm to sports cmods.
2: (Again, from the reports) you have an issue with a specific user and their use of profanities in that forum - this is an issue for local mods.

Feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted this and you believe it's a sitewide issue

I said it needs curtailing on certain forums. I never suggested a site wide ban. That would be unrealistic on many forums.
There is one particular person who swears more than most but he's not alone. I fish, I loose gear, I swear at the time but I don't commit that swear to writing when recounting the tale months later on a thread than kids read.
The Mod told me to raise it here and you say to raise with the Mods. I'm now confused.

Cookie_Monster

any other words you would like censored while you are at it? Because in reality that's all it is, needless censorship.

Beasty

We're talking a sports forum here, and "industrial" language is commonplace across the category. Any attempts to curtail it across the category (or indeed site) are likely to meet with resistance and would be pretty much unenforceable (and posters regularly bypass the swear filter anyway)

It appears the OP has a particular issue with one poster in one forum - that's not a Feedback matter - as Steve has already said it's something that should be picked up with local Mods and/or CMods

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Beasty wrote: »

We're talking a sports forum here, and "industrial" language is commonplace across the category. Any attempts to curtail it across the category (or indeed site) are likely to meet with resistance and would be pretty much unenforceable (and posters regularly bypass the swear filter anyway)

It appears the OP has a particular issue with one poster in one forum - that's not a Feedback matter - as Steve has already said it's something that should be picked up with local Mods and/or CMods

It's a hobby and that does not excuse swearing. I do not at all have a problem with a particular poster. Indeed we get on well on several forums. His just happens to be the most recent occurances. Several forums have no swearing in their charter and it seemed odd that a forum attracting the younger members allows it. Look, it's no big deal. A Mod suggested posting here. I'm sorry I did now as it is being completely misinterrpreted.

Can a Mod close this please?

Nodin

nesf wrote: »

If they're old enough to be on boards they're long past the age where they need to be shielded from swearing.

If this place is 13 and above, then their "butter wouldn't melt..." years are behind them indeed.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Nodin wrote: »

If this place is 13 and above, then their "butter wouldn't melt..." years are behind them indeed.

I'm sorry but you see at 71 years of age I don't think the attitude that a 13 year old is old enough for reading foul language is acceptable. I know, I'm a dinosaur but there were always standards in publication and written recourse that were above that of the language of the street or the playing pitch.

Anyway, again, please Close this as the point is lost and it was just an observation based on many years schooling teenagers on angling and nature issues.

Sorry if I wasted anybody's time. A reply from the mod just saying the language is acceptable on forum would have been sufficient. I only posted here as suggested to me. I'm not au fait with these processes so forgive me. I think my days on the angling forum may be numbered.

Beasty

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

it seemed odd that a forum attracting the younger members allows it.

Pretty much every Sports forum is going to have it's fair share of younger contributors. You tell a schools Rugby player they have to avoid cursing and you may get a little more than you bargained for in return ....

Beasty

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

Sorry if I wasted anybody's time. A reply from the mod just saying the language is acceptable on forum would have been sufficient. I only posted here as suggested to me. I'm not au fait with these processes so forgive me. I think my days on the angling forum may be numbered.

Actually I think there may have been some confusion here. I think the local mod suggested a feedback thread within the forum itself rather than over here, which I would support and agree that would be a better place to discuss this.

Just to add - it's for the local mods to start such a thread and I'm not suggesting you go and do so yourself

Nodin

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

I'm sorry but you see at 71 years of age I don't think the attitude that a 13 year old is old enough for reading foul language is acceptable. I know, I'm a dinosaur but there were always standards in publication and written recourse that were above that of the language of the street or the playing pitch.

...which, in this country, were rather laughable, given the reality.

biko

An eloquent person doesn't have to resort to crude language to convey his or her meaning.
Swearing is for brutes.

Lovely Bloke

Are you really 71? Jaysis fair play to you posting on here for so long (2006!), you'd put my own father to shame

There can't be many older than yourself around these parts.

Don't stop posting in the Angling forum though, that would be a fairly sorry outcome to all of this really, and it's pretty bad that you got mixed messages from the mods and whoever else about posting on this Feedback Forum.

Look, the demographic on this website is a good bit younger than your years, and for that reason I do think you'll probably need to adjust your own expectations as to what is and is not acceptable in the day to day discourse on the website.

Sure, it's a little salty, but this is not akin to the letters page of the Irish Times - and in fact should be seen to be closer to the street or playing pitch than the more traditional public formal communications like Newspapers or indeed Sports Journals.

Insect Overlord

biko wrote: »

An eloquent person doesn't have to resort to crude language to convey his or her meaning.
Swearing is for brutes.

Steve

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

I said it needs curtailing on certain forums. I never suggested a site wide ban. That would be unrealistic on many forums.
There is one particular person who swears more than most but he's not alone. I fish, I loose gear, I swear at the time but I don't commit that swear to writing when recounting the tale months later on a thread than kids read.
The Mod told me to raise it here and you say to raise with the Mods. I'm now confused.

Ah, ok, sorry if I was a bit defensive there. As Beasty said, the intention of the PM you got was to let you know that the Angling mods intend to set up a local feedback thread and you could raise the issue there, so sorry for the confusion.

There's an ongoing discussion between the mods on that.

Eeden

biko wrote: »

An eloquent person doesn't have to resort to crude language to convey his or her meaning.
Swearing is for brutes.

You should check out Strong Language (a sweary blog about swearing), a very entertaining blog about so-called "bad" language which is mostly written by linguists, where you will find that eloquent people may not need to "resort" to swearing, but they certainly can enjoy it, and even revel in it!

dudara

I have to admit that I'm somewhat on Srameen's side here. Swearing and cursing is great in spoken word (and I do swear a lot at times), but I'm not entirely convinced that carte blanche should be given to swearing on Boards. The "gentler" swearwords that have become part of daily language are fine, but I'm not OK with some of the stronger words. I do believe that you should be able to express yourself without being vile.

The_Morrigan

dudara wrote: »

I have to admit that I'm somewhat on Srameen's side here. Swearing and cursing is great in spoken word (and I do swear a lot at times), but I'm not entirely convinced that carte blanche should be given to swearing on Boards. The "gentler" swearwords that have become part of daily language are fine, but I'm not OK with some of the stronger words. I do believe that you should be able to express yourself without being vile.

I agree.

I can understand swearing in the rant forums/threads, but I don't think it is needed anywhere else and when I modded A&P I often asked people to mind their language.

Dav

Yea, I must say I'm on that side of the fence too - it's not really necessary and we have a swear filter not so much to protect your delicate sensibilities but to discourage that sort of needless vitriol.

bucketybuck

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

It's a hobby and that does not excuse swearing.

Why does swearing need an excuse?

feargale

I remember reading years ago about a dismissal case in the UK relating to the use of bad language by a tradesman. His case was that his language was common coin among his workmates. The person at the receiving end of his tongue countered that in his case the language was directed at her in an aggressive manner. It was held that therein lay a difference.

Mrs OBumble

biko wrote: »

An eloquent person doesn't have to resort to crude language to convey his or her meaning.
Swearing is for brutes.

When did eloquence become a requirement for using boards?

Steve

Dav wrote: »

Yea, I must say I'm on that side of the fence too - it's not really necessary and we have a swear filter not so much to protect your delicate sensibilities but to discourage that sort of needless vitriol.

I hear you, however what spawned this thread was far from vitriolic, it was embellished frustration which is a different genre.

"When I got home last night, I stubbed my toe on the feckin doorstep, was in agony for an hour!!!"

Is that vitriol?

"Some fcukin scrote broke into my car last night, robbed the stereo and slashed the new leather seats I just bought"

Is that?

I really don't see a need to have to punish people for posting the odd post like the above. That said, if someone is posting cuss words as part of a normal conversation "just because that's how they talk" then that's a whole different kettle of worms.

Lovely Bloke

Steve, stop typing "cuss", you aren't even bleedin American!

Steve

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Steve, stop typing "cuss", you aren't even bleedin American!

Point taken, alternative suggestion?

I'm normally a straight in, no kissin, guy when it comes to embellished language, I was trying to find a word that was pg13 and inoffensive for the sake of this discussion. :pac:

nesf

Steve wrote: »

Point taken, alternative suggestion?

Curse is the normal word here? Swear is somewhat less common. Cuss is weird. Like you're trying to be in a Western or something. :P

Steve

Or trying too hard to be polite?

Curse, to me, means witchcraftery or some such pagan art. I was trying to use a 'polite' word to discuss stuff that is not.

Maybe I got it wrong, feck.

feargale

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Steve, stop typing "cuss", you aren't even bleedin American!

Stop typing "bleedin". You're not even bloody British. :pac:

Overheal

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Steve, stop typing "cuss", you aren't even bleedin American!

Ain't.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Steve wrote: »

I hear you, however what spawned this thread was far from vitriolic, it was embellished frustration which is a different genre.

"When I got home last night, I stubbed my toe on the feckin doorstep, was in agony for an hour!!!"

Is that vitriol?

"Some fcukin scrote broke into my car last night, robbed the stereo and slashed the new leather seats I just bought"

Is that?

I really don't see a need to have to punish people for posting the odd post like the above. That said, if someone is posting cuss words as part of a normal conversation "just because that's how they talk" then that's a whole different kettle of worms.

Please, don't misrepresent this. No one use of bad language "spawned" this thread. If was many uses of the F word and the C word over time. It was not just an odd angry post. It is used in all kinds of situations where no anger or annoyance is in play.
And who said to punish anybody?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Dav wrote: »

Yea, I must say I'm on that side of the fence too - it's not really necessary and we have a swear filter not so much to protect your delicate sensibilities but to discourage that sort of needless vitriol.

And this gets to the root of the issue, thank you. You have a swear filter but allow blatant avoidance of it by people inverting letters, using numbers for letters, or using using accented versions of letters. It just seems so inconsistent. Why have a swear filter and allow swearing?

nesf

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

Please, don't misrepresent this. No one use of bad language "spawned" this thread. If was many uses of the F word and the C word over time. It was not just an odd angry post. It is used in all kinds of situations where no anger or annoyance is in play.
And who said to punish anybody?

You'll find a lot more allies if you ask for the c word not to be used. This was one of the main arguments *against* the swear filter, not all these words are equal.

nesf

Steve wrote: »

Or trying too hard to be polite?

Curse, to me, means witchcraftery or some such pagan art. I was trying to use a 'polite' word to discuss stuff that is not.

Maybe I got it wrong, feck.

Curse has a few meanings: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/curse

I strongly recommend not using the 3rd one for the noun unless you're trying to get into an argument on this site.

Beasty

I fully understand where the OP is coming from both based on comments here and in some of their reported posts

Local mods are now fully committed to starting a feedback thread when this as well as any other concerns/suggestions can be aired. It may be a few days before its started as we would like this thread to perhaps quieten down first. We don't want the local feedback thread to be simply a continuation of this thread. It needs to focus on the issue in the context if the Angling forum. We also would see it as an opportunity to air any other points regulars in and readers of the forum may wish to raise.

Tarzana2

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

I fish, I loose gear, I swear at the time but I don't commit that swear to writing when recounting the tale months later on a thread than kids read.

I gotta say, I have never, and will never, post anything on boards.ie with a mind to any potential kids that might be reading. I'm an adult, I'm writing posts aimed at adults and teenagers (there'd be a fair few teenagers knocking around on boards.ie). And believe me, teenagers have heard it all.

Tarzana2

biko wrote: »

An eloquent person doesn't have to resort to crude language to convey his or her meaning.

A nice notion, but completely untrue.

Dav wrote: »

but to discourage that sort of needless vitriol.

Swearing often isn't vitriolic or anywhere approaching it.

uck51js9zml2yt

Personally I can't see what is added to a post by the use of bad language where ever it is.
Apart from the extra work involved in adding asterixes etc to the sentence to beat the filters.

Tarzana2

Addilyn Quaint Wishbone wrote: »

Personally I can't see what is added to a post by the use of bad language where ever it is.

Swear words can be used wonderfully for emphasis.

GLaDOS

I'm pretty guilty of swearing in my posts. Never really thought much of it tbh. I genuinely can't understand why a word used to convey anger or frustration would annoy someone. I can understand with kids, but honestly if they're using boards I think they're past the point of having to censor them from swearing.

That said if the prevailing consensus was against swearing I'd cut it down.

Beasty

In some of the forums I frequent it's fairly commonplace. I rarely will so so myself (although I could not claim to be completely "innocent" on the matter - I can't recall resorting to the F or C words though), but generally if it's there for emphasis I don't have a particular concern. If it's gratuitous though and adds nothing then I personally would prefer it if the user leaves it out. I do though think that it is really down to whatever the consensus is within the forum, which is why I am very supportive of getting specific feedback from the forum the OP has concerns over

TheLastMohican

How the fuck are you Srameen?

Joeseph Balls

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

regularly frequented by younger members

Ah Dominique Powerful Bimbo, 99% of posters here are younger than ya

TheLastMohican

Dominique Powerful Bimbo wrote: »

I appreciate that some forums allow foul language but wondered if it could be curtailed in some other forums. The Angling forum for example is regularly frequented by younger members and I feel swearing in not suitable there. It is camouflaged by inventive spelling quite often but is unnecessary all the same.

Dominique Powerful Bimbo, once again. Can you explain how a few random letters of a language thrown together constitute "foul" language. Does language not evolve?

The World is flat

The Sun is the centre of the Universe

Objects heavier than air will not fly

God made the world

Adam and Eve were the first inhabitants.

Let's face it ..... if you had a 10lb salmon at the end of your line and it snapped ...... you'd be entitled to say, "Oh fiddlesticks. The blighter's got away".

Beasty

TheLastMohican wrote: »

How the fuck are you Srameen?

Sometimes posters may post stuff in the heat of the moment and I can understand when they may resort to swearing on occasions. However in my view this sort of gratuitous use of foul language has no place in the public forums of a site that encourages 13 year olds to participate.

I don't know what the exact guidelines are in determining whether the site is suitable for 13 year olds, but presume those rules are part of the reason we have swear filters in place. I would certainly have no issue if mods in the forums I am responsible for acted against posts like this.

uck51js9zml2yt

Beasty wrote: »

Sometimes posters may post stuff in the heat of the moment and I can understand when they may resort to swearing on occasions. However in my view this sort of gratuitous use of foul language has no place in the public forums of a site that encourages 13 year olds to participate.

I don't know what the exact guidelines are in determining whether the site is suitable for 13 year olds, but presume those rules are part of the reason we have swear filters in place. I would certainly have no issue if mods in the forums I am responsible for acted against posts like this.

It would certainly be nice to see a site wide move to deal with it.
Most of it is unnecessary and used to offend.
Apart from that, why do people feel the need to make the extra effort it takes to add words that don't add to the conversation.

Dan_Solo

Addilyn Quaint Wishbone wrote: »

It would certainly be nice to see a site wide move to deal with it.
Most of it is unnecessary and used to offend.
Apart from that, why do people feel the need to make the extra effort it takes to add words that don't add to the conversation.

There's no end of trolling and direct personal abuse ignored by mods when it's reported... (or we're supposed to say "it's none of our business"). Adding more rules to apply/ignore on a whim is hardly going to help.