Girlfriend issue with female friend

JosephG

A difficult and complex one to describe, with lots of background but I'll try to keep it relatively simple. Dating girlfriend for in excess of three years and contemplating moving in. I am a male mid thirties and prior to her arrival had a very supportive network of friends both male and female, for which I felt very fortunate. I had three female friends with whom I was quite close - meet for coffee, offer them advice etc. While there have been problems with two already, with one now no longer part of my/our lives, the third female is whats of most concern right now. Before going any further it is important to state that I have never had any romantic interest in any of the aforementioned ladies, the friendships are entirely platonic. My girlfriend says she accepts this but does not believe me (or any man), should have a close friendship with a female.

The particular friend in question I have known for approx 8 years. I met her on her first day of work at my place of work, felt she was at a bit of a loose end, and said to her at the time that if she needed anything, to give me a shout. As time moved on, I became aware she was living on her own, a good distance from our workplace. I called out and offered a hand of friendship as I felt I wouldn't like to be in the same position. There was never any anterior motive other than to help out a good person. We became good friends and eventually she ended up renting a room in my house. We have provided emotional support to each other for many years, and through some very tough family events/bereavements. She has long since moved out and moved in with her boyfriend but we remain in touch.

Since I started dating, my girlfriend, who I love dearly, has developed a significant discomfort with my having close female friends. In recent months, her attention has shifted towards this lady. This lady, has over the last six months fallen ill with a serious ailment and is currently concluding treatment. As workmates, we would go for coffee or the odd lunch once or twice a week. We would text a few times a week (3-5), or even chat on the phone a few times, sometimes work related, other times just shooting the breeze or catching up. However, contact would be minimal at evenings and weekends, and we would rarely meet up at those times. Myself and my partner and her and her partner have been out together, and my partner has been with me when we've met this lady. There is nothing covert going on and this ladies partner has no problem with any of the contact. When the lady fell ill, she had to stop work for treatment. I asked her as her pal, what could I do? She mentioned just get her out as she was likely to hide away given how the treatment would affect her appearance. So from Feb to May I agreed to meet her every Wed for lunch (when Possible) just to touch base and get her out. Conversation would range from work catch ups to general life stuff and sometimes I would mention my own relationship stuff if it was bothering me - I trust her implicitly and know she does not judge and is very supportive of my partner who she has met by herself a few times.

Following a split and reconciliation, during which my partner mentioned her discomfort with my 'abnormal' need for female relationships, she is now putting renewed pressure on me to significantly reduce contact with this friend. She had displayed this discomfort last Easter and claimed I phoned/texted/met with this lady more than her. This was absolute rubbish and I even used phone records to prove that this was unfounded. I was seriously bothered at the time as this lady is in no way a threat. She is a genuinely good person, she is a great friend, and given she has a serious boyfriend and is thankfully very happy, she offers (imo) no threat to my girlfriend, boards whom she is very affable and supportive. Her only concern is to see me and my partner happy.

So since the reconciliation, there has been a renewed emphasis on me reducing contact with this friend. I even mentioned that if she was a he, would the problem be the same. The answer was an unequivocal no… I am struggling to accede to this demand as I see no threat or associated harm in the relationship. Furthermore, morally I feel it is unnecessary and borderline cruel to turn my back on someone who has done (again imo) nothing wrong. I have been asked to reduce texting, phoning. I have also been asked to stop having lunch/coffee with this person. I have been told that her being a work colleague should be enough. However, given she is not currently at work, how can one maintain a friendship. Indeed, i have lots of work colleagues who I don't automatically consider friends. A friendship takes effort and can't be just a convenience thing.

In recent weeks as part of the reconciliation process I have reduced contact with my friend, I have not responded at all/or immediately to some texts. I have avoided phoning her, I have avoided meeting her on the odd occasion she appeared at work. I have told my other half when she has texted as she finds this reassuring. Last night I forwarded a text that went something like this: "Morning! Hope you're well. I'm off with mam today. Be back on Friday. Have my phone with me. Text you later. Love to you and …… (my partners name).

She is aware to some degree of whats going on and was clearly trying to include my partner in an effort to provide reassurance. My partner was very unhappy on reading this. She suggested that this lady is dependent on me and shouldn't be pulling off me this much. She was mad that she would mention she had her phone with her - asking why did I need to know this. She stated that if one of my family or male friends was heading off they wouldn't need to text like this.

She went further, claiming this friend has no boundaries. That she oversteps the mark with someone else's boyfriend. She claimed she has felt this way since we got together and just didn't day anything till the last six months. She took serious umbrage to the fact this friend bronzed my first shoes and gave them to me as a birthday present. In retrospect, I was the one who gave them to her as I saw nothing offensive in it - but I can see how it might be a problem. When she got sick last year, she had organized a work trip which required people for supervision. She had asked me to provide cover provisionally of someone pulled out. they did and i agreed to travel. I told my girlfriend and a few weeks later, she asked me about us going away. I told her I had committed to helping out this friend and given her illness, felt it not right to go back and withdraw my help. She was very unhappy.

Bottom line, I am uncertain and unsure as to how to proceed. I love this lady very very much, but I find her demands very very difficult to deal with. She makes me question myself and how I act. She is my priority and I never ever let the friendship get in the way of our relationship. But it appears this won't be enough. She deems it unacceptable, wrong to have a good female friend. I can no longer tell the wood from the trees and hope you guys can offer some enlightenment.

s15r330

Well to be blunt the gf is wrong...totally! The problem lies with her own insecurity.
Your mistake was to reduce contact with your friend, a friend who you say has been there for you in tough times, and now you drop her for no fault of her own, she may be better off as that isn't how you treat friends.
Your gf now sees she can get her own way, a slippery slope!!

MagicMarker

You've explained yourself very well. Send her a link to this thread so she can see your thoughts laid out like this and read the countless as yet unwritten responses telling her to cop the **** on to herself.

Corvo

I think you have to stand your ground here Joseph. Some people would of the opinion that if you love this girl very much, that you should concede in this matter.

However, shouldn't she have more trust in you? You have explained that you have no romantic ties to this woman, that you are a friend and that you care about her. I can understand your girlfriends anger should you change plans in order to be with this friend (I think you should put her first in that instance) but meeting up for a coffee or lunch during a working week is called having a normal social life.

This is not advice to you, but if that happened in my life, there would be a large section of my conscience telling me that this was a deal breaker. That might seem harsh, but if I caved in that instance, what would happen further down the line as the relationship progresses? I would be having very serious words with my partner in that instance.

Makapakka

Yes, I would agree that your girlfriend has some insecurities and is using this friend of yours as a ultimatum. Your friend as you say as been there for you in many ways and you clearly adore your friendship. you knew this woman before you met your now girlfriend and I would want to keep that friendship up. Your partner should be supportive of you and your friends, should be able to trust you esp if you told her before that there is nothing romantic between you and your friend. There has to be a point where you say enough is enough and that you are not cutting complete contact with your friend. If it was the opposite way, and you refused her to see a friend of hers, it could be seen as a completely different story.

CaraMay

Op this is shocking. What normal human being would expect you to alienate a friend at a time like this. Tbh you are nuts if you move in with her. Ok you love her but are her actions of love or control. It's clearly the latter. It's really bad form that you've started to back off from your friend. You are a grown adult who has done nothing wrong. Why are you acting as if you have?

OneOfThem

You say you love your girlfriend very very much. As such, you really really want to make her happy. Even if it means sacrificing. To the unhealthy degree that you have basically agreed to sacrifice very good long term friendships for her.

Your girlfriend must obviously know that you ending these friendships is not something that will make you happy. But she is pushing for it constantly. Because she is not willing to sacrifice by dealing with her insecurities or control issues or whatever other bolloxy bollox is behind her behaviour. She would rather you are less happy, and she gets her way.

You love her very very much. Sacrifice to try to make her happy.

She won't sacrifice to make you happy. And instead is pushing for something she knows is making you unhappy. If we follow through on the logic here you've got to start considering that she probably doesn't love you very very much.

Don't move in with her. Break up with her.

If you do not. Don't be surprised when in another few years when the relationship ends you look around for that support network of yours of old and realise it's just you on your lonesome. Today it's close female friends. Tomorrow it's any female friends. Then it's that you spend too much time with your male friends instead of her. Then it's just you and her. Then it goes tits up. Then it's just you. And you can never turn back the clock.

You're not going to break up with her. If you were you'd have done so already. But seriously man, you have to put an end to this carry on. It's ultimatum time. Things change, she works on her crap, or it's over. You're not in the wrong. She is. You know that. She knows that for crying out loud she just doesn't care. Everyone reading this thread will know that. You've got to stand your ground for Christ sake. Maybe it'll be a moment of clarity to her or some sh1t and she'll realise what a bitch she's been and endeavour to change her ways.

LegacyUser

I can't believe you went through your phone records and are showing your girlfriend texts from her just to show there's nothing untoward going on. Seriously you must be walking on egg shells with that kind of carry on as you don't know how your girlfriend is going to react.
Your girlfriend is coming across as very insecure and thats not your problem to sort or fix, this is her problem. She doesn't seem to trust you.

You said you have reduced contact with your friend, have you thought about how your friend is feeling now as your friendship is on the rocks. Does she know why you are being abrupt ? She's just been through a serious illness where you there for her and now your not. When friendships end suddenly its similar to relationships ending it can be really upsetting too.

Op you should never dump your friends (male/female) because your girlfriend says so, I can't get over her insecurity considering this female friend of yours also has a boyfriend too and you have both socialised together. Its very a slippery slope, if you end this friendship with this girl then where does it end is your girlfirend going to veto all your friendships?

To be honest its all well and good saying you love her very very much but if she doesn't trust you and you are changing as person to suit her then you have to ask yourself some serious questions as to why you would want to continue with this relationship.

Colser

Im going to go against the grain here a little as I feel that the ideal situation is that your partner shouldnt have a problem with this but I think that quite a few women would react in a similar way to this friendship.Im not saying shes right but I dont think shes unusual to feel the way she does.
Its difficult to explain but its something that women pick up from other women but can go unnoticed by men.Your friend has her own partner and I wonder how she would feel about him being as close to another woman as you are to her.

I definitely dont think you should be discussing your relationship in any great detail with her as its a little disrespectful to your own girlfriend and I would also question why she mentioned the phone in her text,maybe that makes me an insecure woman too but I honestly feel that my friends would have a similar issue with this.
I know that people will say this is the wrong way to react but I do believe that quite a few women would react the same (and I know that there are probably lots that wouldnt but I dont know them tbh).This is just my tuppence but I can see where your partner is coming from be it right or wrong and felt you should know that others may react the same.

Im certainly not speaking for all/lots/many women before anyone says that Im completely wrong just some that Im familiar with.:)

beks101

My initial reaction was along the lines of other posters, she's being unreasonable. But then, we're only hearing your side.

Did the other two female friendships dissolve because of your gf's demands? That might provide a bit of perspective. If this is a common reaction to you having female friends, then yes, she's unreasonable and this is going to be a theme throughout your relationship and you need to consider how much you're willing to sacrifice to have her in your life. All your female friends?

If not, and this is the first female friend she's having these issues with, I'd have a few questions about that friendship. How often are the texts? Over and back every day or a few a week, one every few weeks etc? Does she rely on you heavily emotionally and for practical things? We all expect a bit of emotional and physical support from our friends but if it goes beyond the odd heart-to-heart over coffee now and then or the occasional 'here could you have a look at my TV", it might be excessive and it might be something any woman would have an issue with. Obviously your friend being unwell will mean that support is a bit more than usual perhaps, but could your gf have grounds for feeling left out or a bit neglected?

Has your gf ever tried to get to know your female friends, or does she just automatically assume the position of insecure-girlfriend when you're in the company of any other female?

deisemum

OP I suggest you man up and stop letting your girlfriend try to control you. You've had 3 female friends and there have been problems with 2 of them already and one of those friendships is no more, is that because of your girlfriend?

Now your girlfriend is trying to control you and make you get rid of a very good friend just because she's female. If your girlfriend is behind the problems with the other 2 female friends where will she stop? If she is then I think you'll be in for a very bleak future if you move in with your girlfriend.

SexyCoccyx

I think it's very important to know if she was the cause of the end of the other two friendships. I think any advice is only speculation if we don't know this.

SexyCoccyx

I think it's very important to know if she was the cause of the end of the other two friendships. I think any advice is only speculation if we don't know this.


One thing that stood out for me was your friend getting your first shoes bronzed - that's pretty full on and only something I'd expect from the very best of friends or a boyfriend, but I will reserve judgement 'till I hear the answer to the above - everything kind of hangs on that, I think.

IlmoNT4

This isnt a very cool relationship you have with your g/f OP...Do you really want to be with someone who tells you who you can and cant be friends with as an adult?

Thats not what a relationship is about.... I'd be telling her, Listen these are my friends and this is the relationship I have with them, if you dont like it, dont let the door hit you on the way out.

JosephG

Just for clarification purposes, my girlfriend does not believe I should have any close female friends. She is happy for me to have as many male friends as possible. There was certainly an issue between her and one of my female friends which has resulted in that friendship being put on ice as she felt undermined and threatened by her. She felt the friend was having subtle swipes at her and blanking her when I was not around. As such I felt obliged to back my partner, confronted her and (however painful) ending the friendship. In relation to the other friend, my gf felt that she was taking sides with the first friend and becoming increasingly cold towards her. Despite my advice contrary, she confronted her on a night out, they had words, it didn't go well and I have since confronted her also. We remain friends and work colleagues, but she will not be welcome in my house once gf moves in, all resulting from the confrontation. My gf does state she doesn't want me to be under pressure but at the same time doesn't want to feel the way she did for the last 18 months. She has asked for me to back off, not cut all contact, but cool off considerably. I am concerned what this entails. I feel that I will inevitably overstep the mark or make mistakes. I appreciate the poster who mentioned I shouldn't speak abut my relationship to another girl, but I guess thats what close friends are for. I am worried that I will lose the potential to have platonic friends with 50% of the population. If I don't agree to the demands, the relationship will not survive.

beks101

JosephG wrote: »

Just for clarification purposes, my girlfriend does not believe I should have any close female friends. She is happy for me to have as many male friends as possible. There was certainly an issue between her and one of my female friends which has resulted in that friendship being put on ice as she felt undermined and threatened by her. She felt the friend was having subtle swipes at her and blanking her when I was not around. As such I felt obliged to back my partner, confronted her and (however painful) ending the friendship. In relation to the other friend, my gf felt that she was taking sides with the first friend and becoming increasingly cold towards her. Despite my advice contrary, she confronted her on a night out, they had words, it didn't go well and I have since confronted her also. We remain friends and work colleagues, but she will not be welcome in my house once gf moves in, all resulting from the confrontation. My gf does state she doesn't want me to be under pressure but at the same time doesn't want to feel the way she did for the last 18 months. She has asked for me to back off, not cut all contact, but cool off considerably. I am concerned what this entails. I feel that I will inevitably overstep the mark or make mistakes. I appreciate the poster who mentioned I shouldn't speak abut my relationship to another girl, but I guess thats what close friends are for. I am worried that I will lose the potential to have platonic friends with 50% of the population. If I don't agree to the demands, the relationship will not survive.

Your girlfriend is being unreasonable. One female friend, yes, potentially your behaviour is inappropriate as an attached man. But three? And basically ANY woman in your life with whom you've attempted to have any sort of friendship beyond that of a casual acquaintance you might say hi to on the street?

Without a doubt you will lose the potential to have platonic female friends if you stay in this relationship. Basically it boils down to a choice - your girlfriend, or the opportunity to have a normal, healthy, balanced circle of friends including many females now or in the future.

Personally I'd start with "these are my friends and they mean the world to me. I've known them many years and have never, nor would I ever, want more from them than friendship. If you can't accept this and trust me, then you are asking me to cull a lot of important people from my life. Do you think that is reasonable?" and go from there.

Sound Bite

Your girlfriend appears to have major insecurity issues and her behaviour comes across as extremely controlling.

Is she also controlling in other aspects of your relationship?

She's picking them all off one by one. Most women are mature & secure enough not to behave life this or issue ultimatums.

If you are happy to stay in a relationship which is controlled by your girlfriend's insecurity, good luck to you but your feelings and wishes are always going to come second to hers.

iusedtoknow

This is all on your GF - nothing seems to reflect badly on you. Your partner should take your life as it is, and not try and change things. My closest friend outside of my wife is a woman that I've known since I was 14. We've never once had any feelings for each other, went through school, university together etc and always stayed in touch. She was actually the one that introduced my wife and I completely by chance (in the same course as my wife). She has been part of my (and now my wife's) life with no questions asked. Same with my wife - she has 2 really close male friends that I've never felt "insecure" or "threatened" by. When we go back to Spain, she'll often go out clubbing with them (and their respective partners) till 6am or 7am with them ( i don't drink and that style of clubbing is no longer that fun for me 4 nights on the go)

Your gf seems to be trying to dismantle your life and remake it in an image to her liking - not a nice quality...and you would be wise to take a long hard look at how this could progress unless you nip this in the bud. At the moment it's your female friends she is trying to separate you from - what about your male friends? As someone above said - this looks like it could be turning into a relationship that is controlled by her wants and insecurity and not your wants...

batmanrobin

SexyCoccyx wrote: »

I think it's very important to know if she was the cause of the end of the other two friendships. I think any advice is only speculation if we don't know this.


One thing that stood out for me was your friend getting your first shoes bronzed - that's pretty full on and only something I'd expect from the very best of friends or a boyfriend, but I will reserve judgement 'till I hear the answer to the above - everything kind of hangs on that, I think.

I thought the part where the friend had the shoes bronzed to be a bit OTT too. I could see someone's mother doing something like that but really no one else.

OP, you need to sit down with your girlfriend and talk things out calmly and just explain to her that it's perfectly healthy to have friendships with the opposite sex ad that these friends have been in your life for a very long time and it's not right or fair for her to dictate who you can and cannot have in your life. There are plenty of women who think like her but they are usually very insecure women or else very controlling. The insecurity thing, she can work on. The controlling thing, I'd advise you make like Hermes and hot foot it out of the relationship!

Did I pick you up right in that the two of you broke up and got back together? If so, was this an issue before?

tara73

OP, I have a different opinion here from the majority of the posters and I sympathize with your girlfriend. It's very easy and probably pc to claim your gf is insecure, reacts controlling and even unreasonable. she might, I don't know her in person, but from the overall situation I think she's just acting humane and with reason. from what you describe I think you are the one being unreasonable and also disrespectful.

it's all well and good when you're single to have platonic or not platonic female friends, meet up and talk to them about whatever personal stuff as often as you want. but dynamics normally change when you are in a committed relationship.

You said, you text and phone that girl around 3 times a week and also meet up regulary every week. I do think this is over the top.
But the main part is, you even talk to her about issues you have with your gf. this is not right and a breach of trust !
I strongly presume your gf suspects or even knows you are talking about her or your relationship issues with this woman.
how would you feel if you knew your gf is talking with a male mutual friend about your relationship issues or whatever you discuss with her? how do you think it feels for her to meet this other girl, sitting in front of her wondering what details she knows ? it would make anybody insecure and foul mooded towards her and you!
I think this behaviour of yours is really disrespectful and it's a no go.

so then she was sick. it's sad and you could be concerned and express it. but she has a boyfriend now, he is the main one to take care of her and be there for her. but how you write, it seems you see yourself as the main carer and seem to act like that also. what's with her bf? he doesn't care for her?

I strongly doubt from all the posters here shouting she is completely wrong, insecure, controlling, if this happened to them, most wouldn't like having their partner this close/emotional contact with the opposite gender like you describe it.

CaraMay

I think you are in an abusive rekationship. She is systematically alienating you from your friends. Family are next, then control of your finances etc etc

You are walking down a very rocky road here. No relationship is worth losing yourself over.

Penny Tration

tara73 wrote: »

OP, I have a different opinion here from the majority of the posters and I sympathize with your girlfriend. It's very easy and probably pc to claim your gf is insecure, reacts controlling and even unreasonable. she might, I don't know her in person, but from the overall situation I think she's just acting humane and with reason. from what you describe I think you are the one being unreasonable and also disrespectful.

it's all well and good when you're single to have platonic or not platonic female friends, meet up and talk to them about whatever personal stuff as often as you want. but dynamics normally change when you are in a committed relationship.

You said, you text and phone that girl around 3 times a week and also meet up regulary every week. I do think this is over the top.
But the main part is, you even talk to her about issues you have with your gf. this is not right and a breach of trust !
I strongly presume your gf suspects or even knows you are talking about her or your relationship issues with this woman.
how would you feel if you knew your gf is talking with a male mutual friend about your relationship issues or whatever you discuss with her? how do you think it feels for her to meet this other girl, sitting in front of her wondering what details she knows ? it would make anybody insecure and foul mooded towards her and you!
I think this behaviour of yours is really disrespectful and it's a no go.

so then she was sick. it's sad and you could be concerned and express it. but she has a boyfriend now, he is the main one to take care of her and be there for her. but how you write, it seems you see yourself as the main carer and seem to act like that also. what's with her bf? he doesn't care for her?

I strongly doubt from all the posters here shouting she is completely wrong, insecure, controlling, if this happened to them, most wouldn't like having their partner this close/emotional contact with the opposite gender like you describe it.

I agree with some of your points. I agree the op has a lot more contact with his female friend than pretty much anyone I know. I don't even see my own friends that often tbh!

I also agree it's her boyfriend's job to get her out and about, not the OP's.

The rest, I disagree with. Being insecure is horrible (I am myself), but you do the mature thing - ask for reassurance.

You do not use insecurity as an excuse to control your partner and systematically force him to cut out his friends one by one. That's abuse. Pure and utter abuse. If a man did that to a woman, there would be uproar.

As for other posters who probably wouldn't like to be in the same position - my ex (we broke up for other reasons) had two best friends. Both female. Both extremely attractive. And I had no issue. I disliked one, but was polite and i love the other and am still friends with her. If you trust your partner, there shouldn't be an issue.

JosephG

Just a few points in relation to the points made by the last few posters. While I understand how it can be seen as unsuitable to discuss personal issues in relation to my gf with my female friend, I chose to talk to her because she is a trained professional in providing non judgemental guidance.. Given the nature of the issues at hand, which have all centred around the same thing, namely issues with female friends who were in situ long before this relationship - it is hard to get impartial, judicious advice. Indeed, my gf also confided extensively in this friend once over the last few months, and to be fair, the friend was empathetic and set me straight on a couple of issues.. I chose to confide in her because I knew she wouldn't give a knee jerk 'get rid of her' response. I also knew the female friend would not take a position against my gf - very very important to me. My gf has of late asked me not to discuss us with anyone, and while I know she certainly discusses bits and pieces about us with her female pals, I accept her wishes, albeit difficult at times. I suppose there are times I feel it necessary to talk to someone as the issues between us are complex and I have found the loss (or retraction) of friendships difficult. The most confusing aspects centre around the fact they all relate to friends of the opposite sex and I reiterate, I have never seen friendship as being something that is gender dependent. One poster mentioned how would my female friends boyfriend feel if the roles were reversed, and again I reiterate, he is fully aware and supportive of the friendship. Another poster mentioned that the level of contact was more than they would see their own close friends and constitutes and unhealthy dependency - something they would be uneasy with. While I can accept this may be viewed by an outsider as being a bit 'over the top', I feel that because a) I work with the person and b) I never ever let any contact take priority over my partner, that I should be allowed to manage my own friendships.. But at this stage, texts, calls or meetings are asked about constantly and by offering transparency I am ironically causing conflict as my partner is always unhappy with the friendship which she believes lacks suitable boundaries, particularly on the side of my female friend. It's a difficult one for me to deal with as finding a suitable balance will as my girlfriend put it - 'hurt her or hurt me'.

LegacyUser

I honestly cannot understand why you even like your gf. Let alone love her.

I'm not saying that to put you down in any way at all, but she just sounds so insecure, jealous, controlling, possessive, can't stand that you have friends of the opposite sex - and to top it all, wanting you to dump your friend who has been very ill. The last point especially is pretty despicable.

Even one of those things would be a red flag to me. Let alone the combination of all of them.

My take is that she's trying to own you for herself, and make you think that you're wrong in your perception of life & friends. As another poster said, if a woman posted this re her BF - he would be slated. And rightly so in my view.

I don't understand why you are letting her ruin your friendships and isolate you like this. To me, that's a hallmark of a pretty awful person. Why are you prepared to accept this? Do you suffer from insecurities yourself?

DukeOfTheSharp

I always find it odd when people talk about a 'breach of trust' when you discuss something with a friend who is of the opposite sex, like this is a rare occurrence. I've often talked to female friends about their boyfriends and issues pertaining mostly to a man's perspective, but it's not like I'm secretly infatuated with them, I just offer advice when needed, because sometimes that is what you need - an outsider's perspective, maybe even more than one, given how complex issues are and how serious the issue at hand is.

Basically OP, your girlfriend's insecurities are ridiculous, she's already done this with two of your other female friends and this will continue until you put a stop to it. She's paranoid, thinking that the friend is backhanding her subtly and that's not normal. This is dangerous territory, and you have to consider whether all the sacrifices you're making are reasonable or not. Personally, I think they're not; she's sacrificed nothing and expects you to jump through multiple arbitrary hoops to make her happy, and that isn't love, that's very pervasive abuse.

Think about it this way, you've all but said you're incredibly unhappy with the situation, you're being asked who's contacting you, you're being transparent but it's causing fights...you cannot 'win', and this 'game' is rigged. No matter what you do, you've done something wrong, you lose, you get into fights. That's NOT normal, I've seen this with people who feel they won't find someone else outside of their abusive relationship, and I'll tell you that it's going to get worse, and never better. Right now you're not happy, not remotely, dealing with her attitude and paranoia and general unpleasantness. Your best bet is to break this off, as hard as it might seem, because you're being manipulated by someone who can't comprehend what they're doing as something wrong. Please, please leave this relationship before you give up something you can't get back.

Also just a quick update with your last comment, if your girlfriend specifically asks you not to discuss something like this with anyone, it really does mean she knows what she's doing is wrong. The greatest fear an abuser-in-progress has is that the person they're trying to control might get outsider opinions early and realise that none of their behaviour is normal or reasonable, and that's more apparent than ever with how she's acting. I'd never request the person I was with to not talk to anyone about an issue involving us unless it was incredibly important - i.e. health/family, I often encourage my OH to seek out secondary opinions because it gives a good balance when things have gotten murky or tempers are high. So long as what we both take on board are reasonable and balanced opinions - and not biased and immature ideas - there's no issue. Your girlfriend seems overly paranoid, controlling, and if she's not an abusive person, she's just not a very pleasant person to be around. Regardless, leave this now, it's not good for her and if she's not too busy living in denial she might realise she shouldn't treat someone like she did you if she wants them to stick around.

brandnewaward

feck it , some of my best mates are women, wouldn't give them up for anyone

Taltos

JosephG wrote: »

.... If I don't agree to the demands, the relationship will not survive.

So don't agree to this blackmail.
End it.

1 of 3 things will happen.

1. You'll be free to have friendships with whoever you choose, free to meet someone who isn't living in the darkages and ultimately be happy with a cohort of GOOD friends of both sexes around you. You might even find your two lost friendships get back in touch.

2. She'll cop on. Get help for her insecurities and things will improve.

3. She'll lie, slowly wear you down and you'll find yourslef middle-aged with no friends male or female as she harrasses you every day to know who you talked to, for how long, about what and how dare you even consider leaving the house and her to earn a wage. Sure can you not just earn money at home where she can watch you 24*7.

Personally I think you have to call time on this, the chances of her getting help are slim but you don't know until you try. Either way her insecurities are her responsibility... Your happiness is yours...

fits

OP havent you posted about this relationship already.? You have already lost the friendship with your neighbour over this relationship? And your girlfriend is abusive?

long_b

She took serious umbrage to the fact this friend bronzed my first shoes and gave them to me as a birthday present. In retrospect, I was the one who gave them to her as I saw nothing offensive in it - but I can see how it might be a problem.

Bronzed your shoes? From when you were a baby?

pookie82

long_b wrote: »

Bronzed your shoes? From when you were a baby?

It looks that way.

To be honest, OP, I'd love to hear your gf's account of this from her perspective. Sounds like she's indeed being over the top in "banning" you from having ANY female friends, but just how close are these girls being??

If she took your childhood shoes and went to the bother of having them bronzed that's an over the top gift for a platonic friend IMO. I think I'd drop if someone did that for my bf.

Few women are going to be completely comfortable with another female texting daily/multiple times a week and you constantly meeting up with them. She has her own bf. That text she sent you reads a little odd to me... she was basically saying good morning and telling you she'll have her phone with her... why? So what? I don't text my mates (male or female) with "good morning", I'll text them if I have news or something to say. I don't record my movements with them or remind them I'll have my phone on me and so forth. It's kind of seeking an ongoing dialogue that's not really necessary.

I don't really know who's right or wrong here but tbh I'd say there's some fault on both sides - hers are insecurities but perhaps yours is naivete and a lack of awareness of what's appropriate with members of the opposite sex once you're in a relationship. It's very easy to be PC and say you're allowed to be friends and contact whoever you want, but what's the level and nature of contact? Deep heart to hearts and calls and lunches and discussing your other half and their flaws? (which let's be honest, if you're having issues, is what you'll be discussing - you won't be talking her up).

Dunno how comfortable I'd be with that, either.

HelgaWard

I think your girlfriend in being unreasonable and very controlling. How does she get on with your male friends and your family? Have any of your relationships with male friends or family been affected since you've been going out with your girlfriend. When I met my now husband he had several close female friends, I was never in any way uncomfortable with this, they became friends of mine too.

Honestly good relationships should not be this difficult. She is obviously not happy at the moment, she wants you to cut your friendship with your friend, which will make you unhappy, sounds like a whole lot on unhappiness to me.

Best of luck OP, perhaps ye could attend couples counselling, might help ye resolve the issue, sounds like ye are just going round in circles at the moment.

JosephG

Thanks for the good wishes.. Have attended couples counselling.. Did a couple of sessions - in fairness to my gf, she has never waivered, there will be no compromise. She didn't agree with the counsellor. She has three simple requests, no contact at all with one friend, (including no acknowledgement if I/we meet her around town), the friend she confronted is not welcome to visit our home, I can remain friends when at work (she works in the same office), and a significant reconfiguring of boundaries with the other female friend - so no lunches, coffees and a serious withdrawal in terms of texts and any phone calls..

JosephG

JosephG wrote: »

She has three simple requests

... no contact at all with one friend, (including no acknowledgement if I/we meet her around town)

... the friend she confronted is not welcome to visit our home

... I can remain friends when at work (she works in the same office), and a significant reconfiguring of boundaries with the other female friend - so no lunches, coffees and a serious withdrawal in terms of texts and any phone calls.

Three simple requests ... for now. If, after the feedback you've received on this thread, you decide to accede to her demands and continue with this relationship, you are going into it with your eyes wide open.

Your girlfriend is unreasonable and controlling but you know this and you are choosing her over your friends. That is your decision. Have a nice life alienating half of the people who come into your life.

HelgaWard

Ok, well then you have all the information then you need to make the decision.

Your girlfriend is not going to change her mind, she has made that clear.
So now you have to decide if you are willing to forego your friendship for the sake of your relationship?

Back to your original question:

JosephG wrote: »

Bottom line, I am uncertain and unsure as to how to proceed. I love this lady very very much, but I find her demands very very difficult to deal with. She makes me question myself and how I act. She is my priority and I never ever let the friendship get in the way of our relationship. But it appears this won't be enough. She deems it unacceptable, wrong to have a good female friend. I can no longer tell the wood from the trees and hope you guys can offer some enlightenment.

You ask for some enlightenment, so I will tell you what I think:

Your girlfriend is either very insecure or extremely controlling.

If she is just insecure possibly your issues will be resolved by you dumping your friend, if you are willing to forego any further female friendships in your lifetime she might be happy.

If she is controlling, your issues will not be resolved by you ending your friendship. She will try to control you in more and more ways as time goes on.

Really you are the only one who knows her here, so you need to decide if she is just insecure or is she also controlling?

It's your life you need to decide what you want from it.

OnTheCouch

It does seem as if your partner is very insecure and/or controlling.

Although let's be honest, many people in relationships are uncomfortable with their bf/gf having many close friends of the opposite sex. Given that I would say in the slight majority of cases women are in charge of the relationship, we tend to hear more about the man being uneasy with it, but I think both sexes can be equally guilty.

Even though I never had as extreme behaviour as in your situation, whenever I have been in a relationship there has been a certain amount of slight disgruntlement on the part of my girlfriends when I've been sending messages to other females, with it should be said, the level of dissatisfaction being proportionally relative to how attractive the other girl was, but as a general rule they didn't like it.

I think what I did which you aren't doing is stamping it out straight away. I wasn't prepared to tolerate this from any girlfriend and told them this as soon as they started to come out with any dissatisfaction over who exactly I was speaking to. I have quite a lot of female friends and don't see why I should give them up if I happen to be in a relationship.

Of course it's easy for me to say this, I don't know the situation, nor do I know your girlfriend. But I do definitely think you should make some sort of attempt to stand up to her, or it'll just be a long process of your female friends being eliminated from your social circle, where each time a different excuse will be used as to why they aren't suitable. Women can also do this with male friends, especially single male friends, who let's say don't lead particularly stable lives.

osarusan

pookie82 wrote: »

To be honest, OP, I'd love to hear your gf's account of this from her perspective.

I'd say from the girlfriend's perspective, she's trying to avoid the situation where, after years of denying they were anything other than friends, her boyfriend eventually left her for the other friend, and she had people telling her (on forums such as this) that just such an outcome had been staring her in the face the whole time.

Taltos

Mod note

pookie82 wrote: »

To be honest, OP, I'd love to hear your gf's account of this from her perspective.

Let's stop this line of thought right now. PI/RI is here to help posters with their issues. Where their partners or the subjects of their threads get involved we immediately shut down those threads so that PI/RI does not become an excuse not to talk to each other.

While it is always interesting to wonder what the OH/other party might be thinking/experiencing this thread is here to help the OP address their issue as it pertains to them and no-one else.

Cheers
Taltos

CaraMay

You're going out with someone 3 years, don't live together and are already going to couples counselling????!!! Op relationships are supposed to be fun especially in the early days. I find it quite upsetting that you are willing to allow her control your friendships like this. She won't even listen to the counsellor ffs.

It not really clear what advice you want op? She's not going to change her mind so you either dump another good (and sick) friend or break up with her.

JosephG

Thanks for the good wishes.. Have attended couples counselling.. Did a couple of sessions - in fairness to my gf, she has never waivered, there will be no compromise. She didn't agree with the counsellor. She has three simple requests, no contact at all with one friend, (including no acknowledgement if I/we meet her around town), the friend she confronted is not welcome to visit our home, I can remain friends when at work (she works in the same office), and a significant reconfiguring of boundaries with the other female friend - so no lunches, coffees and a serious withdrawal in terms of texts and any phone calls..

robbiezero

CaraMay wrote: »

You're going out with someone 3 years, don't live together and are already going to couples counselling????!!! Op relationships are supposed to be fun especially in the early days. I find it quite upsetting that you are willing to allow her control your friendships like this. She won't even listen to the counsellor ffs.

It not really clear what advice you want op? She's not going to change her mind so you either dump another good (and sick) friend or break up with her.

I'd say he enjoys the drama and sense of victimhood. Hard to have any sympathy in this case. The solution is simple.

Penny Tration

JosephG wrote: »

Thanks for the good wishes.. Have attended couples counselling.. Did a couple of sessions - in fairness to my gf, she has never waivered, there will be no compromise. She didn't agree with the counsellor. She has three simple requests, no contact at all with one friend, (including no acknowledgement if I/we meet her around town), the friend she confronted is not welcome to visit our home, I can remain friends when at work (she works in the same office), and a significant reconfiguring of boundaries with the other female friend - so no lunches, coffees and a serious withdrawal in terms of texts and any phone calls..

They're not simple requests.

Your choice is very simple however -

Accept the controlling nutter that you call a girlfriend making all of your decisions for you and cutting you off from everyone you care about.

Or walk away and stick by the people who love you. Because your girlfriend doesn't love you.

Corvo

Joseph, you come across very mature and secure in your own feelings. You have forged strong friendships.

You seem very caring to those around you.

This girl doesn't seem to appreciate that unless it applies to her and her only.

I'd walk away, and I have no doubt you will find someone better.

tara73

Penny Tration wrote: »

Accept the controlling nutter that you call a girlfriend making all of your decisions for you and cutting you off from everyone you care about.

I don't know where you and other people take this drastic conclusions from.

Where did the OP stated she's making all of his decisions? Where did he describe how she's cutting him off from everyone he cares about?
It's simply not true. Quite the opposite: he said she doesn't bother about him having whoever or howmany male friends.
she also said she doesn't bother him being in contact with the girl at work.

The OP was asked several times if she's controlling in other aspects of his life. He hasn't answered that question yet. Why not OP?
I ask again: Is she controlling in other aspects of your life too? If yes, it's a different story. But for now I can only presume she understandably just doesn't like him texting, phoning, meeting up with several girls day in day out.

I know it's down to one girl now. But it were three or more in the past. Means texting, phoning, calling everyday possibly not only to one girl. then meeting up. not only once a week but more often with different girls? still ask how would anybody feel if their partner was in such intense contact with not only one but more than one girl.

but yes, obviously this is normal and the partner has to like it...

OP, it sounds simple to me: you have too intense and not approbriate relationships with girls whilst in a committed relationship. if you split up with this girl, and stick to your intense friendship with girls, you will most likely have sooner or later the same problems with your next girlfriend.

CaraMay

Tara what's inappropriate about him have platonic female friends? Is it not his choice to back off from these friendships and not hers? Your attitude is frankly quite archaic and worrying

Ursus Horribilis

So what is it that you want? You're not happy with what your girlfriend wants you to do. She's not for turning and has shown that she's extremely stubborn. You've already been for couples counselling which I find worrying. Are you sure you want to throw in your lot with someone who's so unbending in her way of thinking? Does she also boss you around in other aspects of your relationship?

homerjay2005

JosephG wrote: »

Thanks for the good wishes.. Have attended couples counselling.. Did a couple of sessions - in fairness to my gf, she has never waivered, there will be no compromise. She didn't agree with the counsellor. She has three simple requests, no contact at all with one friend, (including no acknowledgement if I/we meet her around town), the friend she confronted is not welcome to visit our home, I can remain friends when at work (she works in the same office), and a significant reconfiguring of boundaries with the other female friend - so no lunches, coffees and a serious withdrawal in terms of texts and any phone calls..

im sorry but this is complete bull and your missus comes across as a total drama queen.

you get rid of these 3 things and she will find something else - what next, your sister, mother, female family all barred?? she will then turn on some of your male friends and find a problem with them.

she sounds like a total control freak who needs to either accept it as it is, or break up with you.

Penny Tration

Tara, she has told him to confront ALL of his female friends for perceived slights against her. That's where I'm getting 'nutter' from. That's so far outside the realm of normal. That's taking insecurity to a scary place. She clearly feels if he has female friends, he'll fcuk them, otherwise she'd make him cut out his male friends too. That you think barring him from having female friends is normal, is worrying.

Edit: I've already answered the question you asked again about how us posters would feel in the same situation - fine. Been there, done that, and his friends were lovely ladies, one of whom I'm still close to myself. The only one I ever had an issue with was one who tried to get him to have sex with her, in front of me. And i think having an issue with that is pretty normal! His other female friends, who he lived with, socialised with, spoke with every single day - no problem at all because I trusted him.

bp

My husbands best friend and I are extremely close. We regularly meet for lunch alone. Neither his gf (present and previous) nor my husband have any issue with this.

He tells me deeply personal things (which I wouldn't repeat) that he wouldn't feel comfortable telling another man.

There was a thread similar to this recently and the advice there was along these lines....she needs to cop on, stop controlling you and grow up or dump her

matrim

JosephG wrote: »

Thanks for the good wishes.. Have attended couples counselling.. Did a couple of sessions - in fairness to my gf, she has never waivered, there will be no compromise. She didn't agree with the counsellor.

What did the counsellor say that she didn't agree with?

Does she deal with other issues in her life / the relationship, by saying that it's "my way or the high" way and ignoring all criticism?

desertcircus

JosephG wrote: »

Thanks for the good wishes.. Have attended couples counselling.. Did a couple of sessions - in fairness to my gf, she has never waivered, there will be no compromise. She didn't agree with the counsellor. She has three simple requests, no contact at all with one friend, (including no acknowledgement if I/we meet her around town), the friend she confronted is not welcome to visit our home, I can remain friends when at work (she works in the same office), and a significant reconfiguring of boundaries with the other female friend - so no lunches, coffees and a serious withdrawal in terms of texts and any phone calls..

This is not the foundation of a healthy and equal relationship. Full stop. If you stay with this woman under these conditions, you will never have a properly functioning relationship with each other. She has effectively demanded that you end your friendships with all your female friends (conceding that she can't stop you chatting to people at work), which is utterly unreasonable behaviour. The only serious reaction to any of this should be a flat refusal on your part to entertain any of this. If you want to give her another chance, then do, but cancel any plans to move in together until she's dealt with her issues, and be ready to walk away the moment she starts it again.

You may feel as though you truly love this woman, but be very careful: if you've split and reconciled already, what you're feeling may simply be relief. If you're made to feel guilty enough when your partner is angry with you, the relief of "forgiveness" can feel a lot like genuine joy that you're back together.

There is another woman out there, who would get along brilliantly with your female friends and wouldn't dream of issuing an ultimatum demanding that you cut off contact. There are loads of them. You'd honestly be better off going looking for them.

OneOfThem

tara73 wrote: »

you will most likely have sooner or later the same problems with your next girlfriend.

Yeah that's simply not true. I've never had a previous girlfriend say she didn't want me having female friends. Out of all my male friends over the years I can only think of one instance where one of thier girlfriends took issue with them having female friends. So that's one girl out of maybe twenty we'd be talking.

In her case she initially took issue with him spending time alone or regularly texting single female friends. Then it became spending time alone or texting any female friends, even if they were attached. Then she took issue with him coming out on lads night outs as some of us would be single and obviously we'd be going to clubs and things where there'd be plenty of single women. Then she starting taking issue with some of our girlfriends and the fact he was friendly with them. And on and on it went. Basically ultimately all his friends saw less and less of him, as women are everywhere, and he was a friendly sound guy and got on with everyone, including the various women in his life. And like a dope he continued to go along with her increasingly controlling demands "to keep the peace" and because he was "very very very much in love with her". Eventually reached the point where he came to his senses and started to try and reach out to freinds again, and as a result of there being women walking around on earth that he'd come into contact with when doing this. She dumped him, just like that, as she'd lost control.

OP will have no problem finding a girlfriend where this won't be an issue. Most women wouldn't don't object to their boyfriends having female friends. Certainly not to the degree where they initiate fights with two of them to force the OP into a "choose sides, me or them" situation followed by "well of course you can still be friends with the last one, just you know, never meet up with her and don't respond to most of her texts and calls, but you'll still be friends, sure you will". (She knows full well the OP treating this last female friend like this {pretty sh1tilly} will kill that friendship too, which is what she really wants.)

OP, trust me, this isn't just normal female behavior. Don't believe that for a second. Load of bollox. You more than likely will never have to deal with this from another girlfriend. You never had to deal with it from previous girlfriends, right? Right. There's a reason for that.