Budget 2016

Idbatterim

So reading about the 2% USC cut and the welfare bonus increase...

Im my opinion, the only rate that should be cut, is the marginal income tax rate, far too many, already pay in too little in income taxes. Far too many have been removed from the tax net...

BUT as it is an election year and hence budget, everyone is going to be given a little something, regardless of merit.

The welfare bonus increase is a shrewd move IMO. It gives something to those on welfare, BUT it is a one off payment and if payment needs to be cut in the future, it can be claimed it isnt a core payment. It also isnt a weekly increase.

Its a balancing act between doing enough to get re-elected and not doing more damage than needs to be done economically... Unlike FF who kept on throwing petrol on the flames, once re-election has been secured, with a solid enough majority, you can then simply sustain rates or increase them meagre amounts, before the next budget. Wash and repeat (It seems to be the best option given the Irish populace).

I have read about the extra several hundred guardai. But this leads to another issue, we dont have enough prison spaces to put all the scumbags away. Maybe they will address this in next years budget...

BoJack Horseman

yeah its a shame about the USC... but its a headline grabber so one can see its political merit.

USC is a very successful tax that no one escapes, it covers everything both earned & unearned income.... its progressively tiered & far reaching.

If the objective was helping those at the bottom, things like VAT reform or modifying income tax bands would be better... but not as sexy

Villa05

Idbatterim wrote:

Im my opinion, the only rate that should be cut, is the marginal income tax rate, far too many, already pay in too little in income taxes. Far too many have been removed from the tax net...

If that is being cut then all tax exemptions should be at the standard rate only.
People on low incomes are getting hammered with rent increases and health is an unaffordable luxury.
Many will see social welfare as a viable alternative to work.

Eric Cartman

Usual election budget of silly offers for tax payers that inflation or another tax wipes away pretty quick and a massive giveaway to the unemployed to keep them on side.

Dob74

Eric Cartman wrote:

Usual election budget of silly offers for tax payers that inflation or another tax wipes away pretty quick and a massive giveaway to the unemployed to keep them on side.

I am sure there will be the usual KPMG or some other accounting firm examples of John and Mary benefiting from income tax cuts. Not taking into account vat and other indirect taxes paid.

murphaph

Dob74 wrote: »

I am sure there will be the usual KPMG or some other accounting firm examples of John and Mary benefiting from income tax cuts. Not taking into account vat and other indirect taxes paid.

Yep. The salivating over the budget seems to be something we inherited from the British. Nobody here in Germany even knows when the budget is. It's not used for grandstanding as it is in the British Isles with he holding up the briefcase rubbish and all that goes with it.

Godge

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

yeah its a shame about the USC... but its a headline grabber so one can see its political merit.

USC is a very successful tax that no one escapes, it covers everything both earned & unearned income.... its progressively tiered & far reaching.

If the objective was helping those at the bottom, things like VAT reform or modifying income tax bands would be better... but not as sexy

I agree on USC. I also don't understand the rush to get rid of it. Each 1% of USC takes in more than 1% of income tax, so if you could cut USC rates by 2%, you could probably cut both income tax rates by 3%, creating a bigger headline.

Godge

Villa05 wrote: »

If that is being cut then all tax exemptions should be at the standard rate only.
People on low incomes are getting hammered with rent increases and health is an unaffordable luxury.
Many will see social welfare as a viable alternative to work.

Don't we have half the population on medical cards so how can people on low incomes see health as unaffordable luxury?

Dob74

murphaph wrote:

Yep. The salivating over the budget seems to be something we inherited from the British. Nobody here in Germany even knows when the budget is. It's not used for grandstanding as it is in the British Isles with he holding up the briefcase rubbish and all that goes with it.

It's a joke. Why not announce the budget for 2016 in july and debate it in September and October. Have it finalised by November. Instead of all this last minute funny business.

murphaph

I'd go further and say multi annual budgets encompassing some long term planning should be par for the course but it won't happen.

Irish_rat

So how much will you save per year on lets say 50,000?

Villa05

Godge wrote:

Don't we have half the population on medical cards so how can people on low incomes see health as unaffordable luxury?

This is ireland it is not the most needy that get medical cards rather the more vocal, those that have a good relationship with their TD, those that are more likely to vote and those that can manipulate income.

What percentage of paye workers have medical cards

Nichard Dixon

murphaph wrote: »

I'd go further and say multi annual budgets encompassing some long term planning should be par for the course but it won't happen.

This is the most disappointing thing. There is no sense of what level of expenditure and tax is sustainable in the medium term, rather they just fiddle with this and that to sweeten a few voters.

Riskymove

Dob74 wrote: »

It's a joke. Why not announce the budget for 2016 in july and debate it in September and October. Have it finalised by November. Instead of all this last minute funny business.

it is too early in July to know to make a final call on what income you have and what you have available to spend

anything could happen in the second six months

touts

This budget is largely a pretend one and I find it hard to get excited about it. Whatever they give (or take) will only be for a couple of months so we'll hardly notice it. The real 2016 budget will be about a month after the election when whoever makes up the new government comes in looks at the books and tells us "We're sorry but it's far far worse than we were lead to believe". What we get then in terms of tax changes spending policy etc will be a far more significant indication of how things will shape up for the next 5 years.

JustTheOne

If only we had a government ballsy enough to cut social welfare and reduce the 1 in 2 receiving benefits each week

Then direct that to healthcare.

No party would do it because they would never be voted in again.

Great little country ay.

Idbatterim

all workers should simply vote FG, we get screwed because we dont act as one... Any other party gets in with SF and we keep up the current welfare wonderland situation, thats the unfortunate reality...

Letree

Expect large rises in property tax and water charges after the budget to pay for all these giveaways.

Nichard Dixon

Letree wrote: »

Expect large rises in property tax and water charges after the budget to pay for all these giveaways.

Well we probably should follow the OECD advice... :rolleyes:.

Dob74

Idbatterim wrote:

all workers should simply vote FG, we get screwed because we dont act as one... Any other party gets in with SF and we keep up the current welfare wonderland situation, thats the unfortunate reality...

Why vote for FG? Despite there claims as a low tax party. They hand out handy contracts to there tax exile friends and just pass the bill onto the public.
Coporate welfare has never been so expensive.

touts

Dob74 wrote: »

Why vote for FG? Despite there claims as a low tax party. They hand out handy contracts to there tax exile friends and just pass the bill onto the public.
Coporate welfare has never been so expensive.

I think history may well judge this FG government very harshly when it comes to some, shall we say, "unusual" sales of state owned assets and the later adjustment of government policy that made those assets quite valuable. Sort of like the rezoning lark FF got up to but focused on one or two of their "supporters" as opposed to the many small fish FF could cram into the Galway tent. But none of that will be clarified in time for the next election. Most people will vote based on promises that will never be kept.

RustyRobo

JustTheOne wrote: »

If only we had a government ballsy enough to cut social welfare and reduce the 1 in 2 receiving benefits each week

If only we had a government with enough morals and ethics to tackle the rich individuals and organisations that keep them in power at the expense of the common citizen. If you call cuts to "social welfare" measures to put people out of their homes and hence live on the streets - loss of public services -a devastated health service - care homes closing etc... So is this the society you are looking forward to? If it is then the Lord help you when you or your loved ones need to call back on on all the taxes (direct and indirect) that have been paid over a lifetime. I guess you just want want the rich to get fatter and the most needy in our society to go to the wall.

Dob74

touts wrote:

I think history may well judge this FG government very harshly when it comes to some, shall we say, "unusual" sales of state owned assets and the later adjustment of government policy that made those assets quite valuable. Sort of like the rezoning lark FF got up to but focused on one or two of their "supporters" as opposed to the many small fish FF could cram into the Galway tent. But none of that will be clarified in time for the next election. Most people will vote based on promises that will never be kept.

I would say people vote out of self interest rather than election promises.
FF and FG have one thing in common, there friends get rich at the expense of the working taxpayer.
As for the budget it looks like the usual tax cuts and spending increases. We are well on our way back to bankruptcy again.

Nichard Dixon

Dob74 wrote: »

As for the budget it looks like the usual tax cuts and spending increases. We are well on our way back to bankruptcy again.

Well I am not using my tax cuts to buy bank shares this time, or if I so I'll sell out sooner rather than later.

suicide_circus

For once I would agree with Fergus Finlay when he said yesterday that instead of adding an additional fiver to the non means tested child benefit (which most won't notice) as is planned for the budget, Joan Burton should use that €70m in a far more targeted way where it will really be felt such as respite for carers, SNAs, theatre nurses etc

It is depressing that Governments feel required to do this.

An electorate still being 'trained' by Operant conditioning.

fliball123

JustTheOne wrote: »

If only we had a government ballsy enough to cut social welfare and reduce the 1 in 2 receiving benefits each week

Then direct that to healthcare.

No party would do it because they would never be voted in again.

Great little country ay.

The problem there is that still wont sort out the HSE we spend a hell of a lot on health and the area is so poorly managed that any other money directed would surely be wasted.

Letree

fliball123 wrote: »

The problem there is that still wont sort out the HSE we spend a hell of a lot on health and the area is so poorly managed that any other money directed would surely be wasted.

Ah ha fliball its that time of year again. Good to see you up and at it before budget day. Still bothered by the PS i see. Do you dream about it.

jank

murphaph wrote: »

Yep. The salivating over the budget seems to be something we inherited from the British. Nobody here in Germany even knows when the budget is. It's not used for grandstanding as it is in the British Isles with he holding up the briefcase rubbish and all that goes with it.

Same here. There is a budget 'day' that does get some press coverage but no the endless weeks and months of speculation and kite flying that Ireland seems to engage in. Its a circus where politics overtakes policy and economics.

johnnyskeleton

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

USC is a very successful tax that no one escapes, it covers everything both earned & unearned income.... its progressively tiered & far reaching.

It was intended as an emergency measure to deal with the recession. Fair enough, we can all pay a little bit more in solidarity with those who are the worst hit by the recession.

But as with a lot of taxes and charges, they are brought in as a temporary measure but are then kept long term.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Usual election budget of silly offers for tax payers that inflation or another tax wipes away pretty quick and a massive giveaway to the unemployed to keep them on side.

FF made a suggestion that they are going to level the playing pitch for self employed people by giving them the same tax credits and rates of USC etc as PAYE employees if they pay tax on a monthly basis. FG have made vague comments about equalisation as well:

http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2015/fine-gael-is-standing-up--1/

To be honest, this is a very important issue to me as a self employed person. It goes beyond merely wanting to pay less tax. It recognises that you can't just arbitrarily say "oh hey, let's increase tax on the self employed because we can, and sure they are all coining it anyway" and towards recognising that self employed people make a valuable contribution to the economy.

So if they live up to their promises I think it would be a good move, even if the actual benefits are notional or are eaten away by another tax or inflation.

johnnyskeleton

Letree wrote: »

Ah ha fliball its that time of year again. Good to see you up and at it before budget day. Still bothered by the PS i see. Do you dream about it.

Mod Note:

Let's not get personal, okay?