Mortgage Process really difficult and off putting

Pac2015

Is it just me or does anyone else find that the mortgage process now in Ireland in 2015 is really difficult or simply put a pain in the back side?

Speaking to some people over the weekend just casually as they were asking me had I bought a house yet they said they know loads of people who are finding it really stressful and some have like me decided to hold off till 2016 as they just cant be bothered with the process and stress of it all?

MarkAnthony

Nope not really.

Once you've applied to one and you're organised you have pretty much everything for another. Unless you're a civil servant, married to a civil servant with a 50% deposit and earning €250,000 a year expect to get knocked back by a few; keep trying.

I found BOI no BS - straight No :pac: EBS very helpful but No, KBC brilliant and yes. I found using a (paid in my case) broker useless. Ulster bank would also loan but at a higher rate. I found them both very helpful in branch and very unhelpful with underwriters.

Think that leaves Permanent and AIB (Haven). Permanent actually were a pain in the arse IIRC first we applied to all good then they raised an issue about my wife's contract which they had first said was fine. Haven wouldn't lend enough but these last two were through the broker rated as above.

All in all you're asking for a Huge amount of money it should be carefully scrutinised.

DublinDilbert

Pac2015 wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else find that the mortgage process now in Ireland in 2015 is really difficult or simply put a pain in the back side?

Speaking to some people over the weekend just casually as they were asking me had I bought a house yet they said they know loads of people who are finding it really stressful and some have like me decided to hold off till 2016 as they just cant be bothered with the process and stress of it all?

No didn't find it too bad. The 20 - 25 years working to pay it off will be much more difficult than filling in a few forms and compiling some information

Pac2015

I bought an apartment in 2009 and the process was never as difficult as it is now I suppose its the deposit bit that gets everyone and how strict they are I understand its a huge amount and with everything thats gone on the past few years they have to be extra careful but it just seems like a very drawn out process.
We took advice from a broker and cleared anything we owed which wasn't a huge amount and started saving again so I suppose one good thing is we are completely debt free other then the mortgage on the apartment which will be sold at the same time as buying, the broker favored KBC who I already have my mortgage with and it was funny because he could get us nearly 50K more then they offered me when I called.
We'll get there at some stage in 2016.

Barely There

You haven't provided any examples of what you feel is so difficult about the process.

There are a number of forms to fill in and bits of information to collate and supply to the mortgage provider, but nothing unreasonable in my experience.

TBH, if you find the application process so difficult and stressful you're going to struggle with the reality of home ownership.

MarkAnthony

Pac2015 wrote: »

I bought an apartment in 2009 and the process was never as difficult as it is now I suppose its the deposit bit that gets everyone and how strict they are I understand its a huge amount and with everything thats gone on the past few years they have to be extra careful but it just seems like a very drawn out process.
We took advice from a broker and cleared anything we owed which wasn't a huge amount and started saving again so I suppose one good thing is we are completely debt free other then the mortgage on the apartment which will be sold at the same time as buying, the broker favored KBC who I already have my mortgage with and it was funny because he could get us nearly 50K more then they offered me when I called.
We'll get there at some stage in 2016.

I bought in 2006. The wife was doing a PhD earning 12K a year and I was earning 24K. I think we qualified for about half a million - spent 295K. It was easier back then as no one gave a... :P

the groutch

if it's what you'd call a "difficult" process, then that means the bank is doing their job right.

would you prefer to go back to 2005 where 100% mortgages were being thrown out like confetti to people who couldn't afford them?

Pac2015

I'm already a home owner as stated above I bought an apartment in 2009 lived in it till 2012 and moved out and now rent and pay the same amount rent that we hope to pay in mortgage plus bills so I wont find it difficult at all, I suppose everyone's case is different for us we have the apartment to think about and doing a trade up mortgage where you sell and buy at the same time.

We also need 20% deposit for the mortgage unless my apartment goes into NE.
I'll get there in the end I was just looking for people's thoughts on it as 2 different people said they found the process stressful and long winded.

Pac2015

the groutch wrote: »

if it's what you'd call a "difficult" process, then that means the bank is doing their job right.

would you prefer to go back to 2005 where 100% mortgages were being thrown out like confetti to people who couldn't afford them?

No not at all in fact when I was buying in 2009 I was offered 203K on a 28K salary there was no way I could have afforded that because at the time I also had a loan it was crazy I am a sensible person so said no to that mortgage offer and took a much lower one of 127K.
The apartment I bought was one of Liam Carrolls ones he had just gone to NAMA so I bought mine for a knock down price.

MarkAnthony

Pac2015 wrote: »

I was just looking for people's thoughts on it as 2 different people said they found the process stressful and long winded.

It can be to be fair, it depends on how much you have invested in it - does it mean sprogs are off the table that sot of thing.

Pac2015

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It can be to be fair, it depends on how much you have invested in it - does it mean sprogs are off the table that sot of thing.

lol...not a problem for us we dont want kids and I have always said I would never have children without owning my own home so that there is some form of stability for them you only have to look around Ireland at the moment at all the families renting and moving all the time.

I just found the process in 2009 alot easier saw the apt in July 2008 got approved 2 weeks later, deposit down and moved in by Feb 2009.

jon1981

Just use a broker, let them deal with the hassle.

Actually is it the process or the new rules that's off putting? The broker can't solve the latter.

pwurple

Oh it can be a pile of paperwork for sure, especially so if you are anything other than the cookie-cutter applicant.

You need to detail your income and repayment capacity, where you got your savings from, and go into your net disposable income, so your monthly expenses etc. Self-employed or any foreign or non-paye income? Prepare for a lot of questions, and indeterminate timelines of when they will get back to you.

And each bank has a different set of forms to fill out with the same info.

Then you get to the underwriter and they want the whole thing again, but in a different format.

Very easy to lose track of who wants what if you are applying to all banks. And then you get to the loan offer stage, with another list of items to gather for drawdown.

Ah. Fun times.

Pac2015

We probably will use a broker as I need to trade up sell the apt and buy a house at the same time. His fee for doing all that is 1250 which I think is mental but as he said he does all the hard work for you and he is really experienced, I suppose its a combo of the new rules and all the information you have to provide its slightly more stressful when you have a property that you are selling.
Alot of people are saying hold onto the apartment but I dont need two homes I just want one nor do I need the hassle of tenants even though I have a lovely girl in there now plus management companies I wont even get started on them.

jon1981

Oh, when we were buying about 2 yrs back now our broker was free. That might have changed, i know some banks use to pay brokers a commission.

Sunny Dayz

We bought 2 years ago so 2.5-3 years ago we were in the mortgage process so maybe things have changed. I found it surprisingly easy. We applied to two different banks (as I have my main bank a/c in one, he has his main a/c in another). Copies of payslips, P60's, bank statements, salary certs, marriage cert to both applications and I kept copies of same. Maybe we were lucky - we are both in full time permanent jobs each €30K-€32K per annum. We weren't looking for a huge sum and we had already found the house. Got the yes from both banks and picked one. As the house buying process was dragged out (and stressful) we just had to refresh the bank with payslips and salary certs.


The mortgage process was fine - the house buying process itself was the part that was difficult and off-putting.

johnnyskeleton

the groutch wrote: »

if it's what you'd call a "difficult" process, then that means the bank is doing their job right.

would you prefer to go back to 2005 where 100% mortgages were being thrown out like confetti to people who couldn't afford them?

If difficult means refusing you because your deposit is insufficient, your credit history is bad, your income is too low or the property is overvalued or risky then Id say fair enough.

In any of those scenarios the bank would simply say no.

However, ive had all sorts of problems with the banks, from losing documents, snide comments about my job, talking about other customers applications (in breach of data protection etc). Generally, even though I was a solid prospect for a mortgage, I got the impression that the banks still wanted me to beg for a mortgage.

Flatzie_poo

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

The mortgage process was fine - the house buying process itself was the part that was difficult and off-putting.

+1

Mortgage application takes organisation and time. Not difficult, more a small bit tedious...

Estate agents on the other hand, I won't be able to (or need to thankfully!!) deal with them for the foreseeable future.

Pac2015

jon1981 wrote: »

Oh, when we were buying about 2 yrs back now our broker was free. That might have changed, i know some banks use to pay brokers a commission.

It depends really on the broker I think one we went to before was € 300 he actually gave out terrible advice but this guy is very straight forward and gives good sound advice I think he is charging 1250.00 as we are doing whats known as a trade up mortgage where we sell and buy at the same time he does alot of the background work and its with KBC.

Pac2015

Yeah hopefully when we have the deposit saved all should be okay we both are debt free, no kids, have permanent full time jobs with a combined salary of 67K and have good credit history so I am hoping all will go okay its all different to when I bought in 2009 but I suppose alot has changed since then.

Chemical Byrne

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I bought in 2006. The wife was doing a PhD earning 12K a year and I was earning 24K. I think we qualified for about half a million - spent 295K. It was easier back then as no one gave a... :P

Tbh that made a lot of sense in fairness. A PhD qualified person would have had a very good chance of absolutely creaming it once qualified and would have been well able.

Its a fact that peoples salaries increase as they gain experience and climb the ladder. Restricting a mortgage to a set multiple of what they're earning at the outset of their career is very restrictive. Personally, I feel it was a good approach to base it on likely future earnings.

dutopia

I just moved into my new home last week. Yes, I found it quite stressful and time consuming and it's a big weight off my shoulders now that it's done. Everyone will have a different experience though, so it's hard to say what it's going to be like for you. Personally, I found EBS messed me around, BOI really strict and wouldn't even consider me, Ulster Bank had no issues and said yes pretty quickly. I am an IT contractor so some banks didn't like that while others didn't care at all.

Pac2015

dutopia wrote: »

I just moved into my new home last week. Yes, I found it quite stressful and time consuming and it's a big weight off my shoulders now that it's done. Everyone will have a different experience though, so it's hard to say what it's going to be like for you. Personally, I found EBS messed me around, BOI really strict and wouldn't even consider me, Ulster Bank had no issues and said yes pretty quickly. I am an IT contractor so some banks didn't like that while others didn't care at all.

I had heard BOI were fairly strict they dont deal with brokers anymore.
Its good to hear everyone's opinion and situation.

witchgirl26

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Tbh that made a lot of sense in fairness. A PhD qualified person would have had a very good chance of absolutely creaming it once qualified and would have been well able.

Its a fact that peoples salaries increase as they gain experience and climb the ladder. Restricting a mortgage to a set multiple of what they're earning at the outset of their career is very restrictive. Personally, I feel it was a good approach to base it on likely future earnings.

The problem with that is that no one can guarantee future earnings. When I entered the training program for the profession I'm in, people were getting in the €55k range upon qualification. That altered dramatically in the space of a year. Now it's more in the €35-€45k region. Earnings are based on, in part, on how the economy is doing not just how well you're qualified. And we all know how good banks have been at predicting how the economy will go......

lainey316

I bank with BoI so the whole thing took about 15 minutes, with approval in 3 days. Meeting EBS today and the burden of proof is pretty high with them, they've been asking for CVs I have heard.

Chemical Byrne

What the hell would they want with CV's. Sure some of the most successful businessmen in the country wouldn't have a single qualification more than a group/junior cert to put on it! Sean Quinn, Bill Cullen etc.

NyOmnishambles

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

What the hell would they want with CV's. Sure some of the most successful businessmen in the country wouldn't have a single qualification more than a group/junior cert to put on it! Sean Quinn, Bill Cullen etc.

My application (not the bank listed above) required a CV, I am an IT contractor so work off 6 month contracts generally so assume it was used to verify that I don't go periods without work, I have 15 years of work history with no gaps between jobs so other than supplying it there were no questions asked

Pac2015

Surely a letter or salary cert from your employer would suffice I've never heard of a bank asking for a CV and in most cases people are never fully truthful on Cv's maybe if you are self employed they are asking for them.

lainey316

They didn't ask me after but they asked a friend. Anyway all very straightforward other than getting account statements for all my accounts (hassle, not unreasonable to ask)

lol @ choices of successful businessmen above

pwurple

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Tbh that made a lot of sense in fairness. A PhD qualified person would have had a very good chance of absolutely creaming it once qualified and would have been well able.

I wouldn't make that assumption at all.

I know plenty of people with PhD's who earn sweet f all and are effectively professional students going from postdoc to long-winded postdoc scraping by on research grants.

If you do a PhD in any of the social sciences or arts there may not be a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow either.

And there are people whose priorities change, and spend 20 years out of the workforce as highly qualified full-time stay-at-home parents.

Someone's potential earnings may never be realised!

L1011

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I bought in 2006. The wife was doing a PhD earning 12K a year and I was earning 24K. I think we qualified for about half a million - spent 295K. It was easier back then as no one gave a... :P

When I applied for my mortgage, the BOI forms were still from that era. Advisor in the branch said to ignore the "expected income from rent-a-room scheme" box, etc, as "we're not nuts enough to believe that anymore" :pac:

matrim

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

What the hell would they want with CV's. Sure some of the most successful businessmen in the country wouldn't have a single qualification more than a group/junior cert to put on it! Sean Quinn, Bill Cullen etc.

CV can do more than just list your qualifications. I'm pretty sure Sean Quinn and Bill Cullen could put together a pretty impressive CV without mentioning education.

LookingFor

Kind of curious, but for people who got a flat 'no' from BoI or found them strict, what was the issue?

Deposit rules?

Or were they picky about something outside the Central Bank rules?

I'll be organising a chat with them soon. I know about the deposit rules, the LTV ratios etc. but curious if there are hidden gotchas with BoI in particular.

Thestones

Yes the process is a pain, we bought in 2006 and got a 300k mortgage back then, now with 1 salary and 2 kids trying to move up is impossible, the amount we got offered we couldn't even buy back our own house, luckily my family is helping out financially or we'd never be able to move. I can't understand with such strict rules how so many people are getting approved and buying all these houses!

NIMAN

I have done it twice, and don't fancy doing it again in the near future.

It's frustratingly slow. All the red tape to tick all the boxes of course has to be done, but I found the communication between solicitors awful. And them and the bank.

During my last mortgage approx 5yr ago, both solicitors and the bank were all in the same small donegal town, yet it was taking a week to send a letter and get a reply. Everything seemed to be posted, instead of hand delivered.

mel123

LookingFor wrote: »

Kind of curious, but for people who got a flat 'no' from BoI or found them strict, what was the issue?

Deposit rules?

Or were they picky about something outside the Central Bank rules?

I'll be organising a chat with them soon. I know about the deposit rules, the LTV ratios etc. but curious if there are hidden gotchas with BoI in particular.

I got approval with BOI so I cant comment on getting refused, however they are very thorough - where did that money come from and all this. What I didn't like about them was they gave me approval. Another bank gave me more money, BOI matched it. Then I got more money, BOI matched it again. Like why not just give the max you are looking for from the get go and stop messing around.

EBS on the other hand, messed me around completely, ill never go to them for my banking needs again.

BabyBirch

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

What the hell would they want with CV's. Sure some of the most successful businessmen in the country wouldn't have a single qualification more than a group/junior cert to put on it! Sean Quinn, Bill Cullen etc.

I had a meeting with a mortgage advisor in AIB a couple of weeks ago. I told her I was in a permanent job but was likely to move soon. She said that in that case I would need to finish my probation in the new job and provide my CV - I guess to see what kind of career progression I've had and any gaps in employment? Not sure if they'd go so far as checking references :eek:

Also I am in the middle of a part-time PhD and the only difference it made was that they would knock my fees off my gross earnings (eg. the amount AIB would be willing to offer went down, not up).

Ursus Horribilis

If you think applying for a mortgage is bad, try switching banks! Now that was painful.

If you are the sort of person who keeps their documentation safe and doesn't throw out your bills very quickly, then I'm not seeing what the problem is. I had to send off a form to HR to fill in but everything else was either in my filing cabinet or was available electronically.

The applying for a mortgage is the least painful part of the process. I hope I don't need to house hunt again any time soon. Hated that so much.

Pac2015

It's good to see everyone's opinions on the mortgage process it seems EBS are a no go, BOI are very strict and AIB and KBC seen okay.

We originally were using a broker who was recommended to us and he turned out to be rubbish gave bad advice wasn't realistic and dragged things out so now with the new rules we have to save more anyway so are just powering away saving but its proving hard even getting anywhere near what we need now to buy a house seen as I am not a first time buyer.

I have also noticed the price of houses in Dublin has shot up I just seen one house which is tiny in the D24 area for 280K and before it was on at 230K its in Kilnamanagh and not even the nicest part of the area.

LookingFor

Pac2015 wrote: »

It's good to see everyone's opinions on the mortgage process it seems EBS are a no go, BOI are very strict and AIB and KBC seen okay.

We originally were using a broker who was recommended to us and he turned out to be rubbish gave bad advice wasn't realistic and dragged things out so now with the new rules we have to save more anyway so are just powering away saving but its proving hard even getting anywhere near what we need now to buy a house seen as I am not a first time buyer.

I have also noticed the price of houses in Dublin has shot up I just seen one house which is tiny in the D24 area for 280K and before it was on at 230K its in Kilnamanagh and not even the nicest part of the area.

House price inflation in Dublin eased off in the last quarter IIRC. That quarter was the first where the new rules might have been having an effect. I believe there was even one Dublin area (6 or 6W) where prices dipped slightly. Overall, though, prices still growing, but not as fast as before. Inflation is accelerating in other parts of the country though, possibly the beginning of a reverse in the situation to date where Dublin was outpacing the rest of the country as more people look outside Dublin because of the new requirements.

It'll be interesting to see the statistics for the current quarter, to see if the effect of the new rules strengthens or not.

Evil-p

Yep i'm finding it a nightmare. I'm dealing with AIB emortgages. Slow to answer phones, sometimes don't answer at all. Took weeks to get approval. Pedantic about strange things. Never being able to speak to a lender. Just an all around difficult experience.

And yes we had all paperwork in place, sought a mortgage within our means and had a deposit.

Pac2015

LookingFor wrote: »

House price inflation in Dublin eased off in the last quarter IIRC. That quarter was the first where the new rules might have been having an effect. I believe there was even one Dublin area (6 or 6W) where prices dipped slightly. Overall, though, prices still growing, but not as fast as before. Inflation is accelerating in other parts of the country though, possibly the beginning of a reverse in the situation to date where Dublin was outpacing the rest of the country as more people look outside Dublin because of the new requirements.

It'll be interesting to see the statistics for the current quarter, to see if the effect of the new rules strengthens or not.

I live in the D24 area and want to buy in that area too most of the houses in the nice or sought after areas as they are called are rising by 20-50K each time

Calhoun

Mortgage application shouldn't be too easy, we got approved this year in February but planning wise we spent at least a year getting deposit and finances in order.

In the end the mortgage was small enough and affordable if one of us lost our job ect we could maintain it.

The whole process though got us to realistically look at it and be sure we wouldn't bite off more than we could chew. We did go with a broker who really focused us.

castle2012

We bought in may of this year with ub. Yes there meticulous with looking for documents. But I suppose they have to cover themselves. The reason the country got in such a mess in 08-11 was because banks where not doing there job properly. At least the mistakes of the past won't happen again

Pac2015

Banks were lending way too much sure I was offered double what I could afford on 28K back in 2008 I being sensible refused and this time dont way more then we can afford either the new rules with all 2nd buyers needing 20% have not been thought out properly because whereas people had say the 10% deposit plus fees and stamp duty etc and were ready to go with borrowing a sensible amount now they are put back 2 years or more but it seems there are loads of younger first time buyers with alot of savings buying up houses and cash buyers.

Jen44

We just got a mortgage and husband had to provide a cv, he is an accountant.

Pac2015

Jen44 wrote: »

We just got a mortgage and husband had to provide a cv, he is an accountant.

I work full time and have done so for 3 years in a permanent job but if I am asked for a CV I will tell them straight out no.

Senecio

The banks wouldn't touch me if they saw my CV. It hasn't been updated in 15 years!

Electrician

I applied with AIB last December. Got approval within two weeks. No issues at all. Got the Max they said I could have. Got keys in April.
Once all is in order the banks are the easiest part in my experience.
One the other hand I was always chasing up my solicitor. That was the stressful part for me.

Pac2015

Someone mentioned at the weekend there will be a change in rules for people trying to buy now did anyone hear about that ?

jpboard1

Pac2015 wrote: »

Is it just me or does anyone else find that the mortgage process now in Ireland in 2015 is really difficult or simply put a pain in the back side?

Speaking to some people over the weekend just casually as they were asking me had I bought a house yet they said they know loads of people who are finding it really stressful and some have like me decided to hold off till 2016 as they just cant be bothered with the process and stress of it all?

If you can't be bothered with the process, you have no business buying a house. It is a decision that will more than likely effect you for the next 30(ish) years. If you enter into it lightly you have not thought it through.