How long did your rotator cuff take to heal?

fret_wimp2

Not asking for medical advice, I'd like to know for people here how long full recovery took so I can assess if It's time to get further treatment from a professional, or if I should just give the rehab work more time.

I injured my rotator cuff about 3 months ago. I gave it a few weeks and went back to full muscle ups and injured it again.
I've been very good with it for the last 8+weeks, doing only rehab work, stretching and strengthening with rehab recommended by a physio.
it's been feeling great the last week so I went back to muscle ups yesterday but it's quite sore again today so obviously I went back too early.


How long did you give your injury to recover? I'm assuming you do daily rehab exercises.

Thanks!

Desmonddoyle

I can only give my experience which was at least 6 or 7 years ago now.

Similar to you, I went back to gym work to early which probably added greatly to the total time off. I ended up taking the best part of a year off. I think it was best thing I ever done as it was the only way I could be sure it had healed properly. I tested it out lightly a few times prior to coming back that but I never felt confident that it was totally healed. I done a lot of cycling and walking (hate running) instead, which I really enjoyed.

I'm not saying it will take that long for you, but I definitely would give it a lot longer than 3 months.

By the way, I certainly didn't do rehab/physio everyday - I was advised at the time that every second day at most. I thought all muscles needed rest and recovery, even small awakward ones.
Also, I didn't have surgery - not sure if you are recovering from surgery or not.

jon1981

For me it was 7 months of physio and 5 additional months to get back to a stage were I could go hard into weights again.

It does flair up now and then when I don't bother to keep up the conditioning exercises the physio gave me.

It is one of the most depressing injuries I've had and I can probably only go to 75% of the weight that i used to be able to lift or I'd get sore again and need a few weeks rest.

I'd be interested to hear from other peoples experience as while I'm able to get back into weight training and sports, I have a much lower threshold now.

Snoopy1

Having had 2 shoulder operations, its the worst a injury i've ever had.
I went back far to soon after first operation (also the surgeon messed it up), and ended up having a second one. Also have arthritis there now, which is not great. I gave my shoulder at least 8 months after the second operation, before doing any weights, and even now i certainly cant do as much.

Hanley

You've hurt your shoulder 3x doing muscle ups.

That's instructive.

Stop doing muscle ups. You're probably not ready for them.

Just because you CAN do something that looks like a muscle up doesn't mean you should be.

Can you do 10 strict chest to bar pull ups, and 10 strict shoulder to rings ring dips?

If you can't, you're not ready for MUs.

And unless you're a competitive CrossFit'r they serve no real purpose anyway. You can get the same benefit from a wide array of other exercises without hurting yourself and being out of training.

In summary, you're asking the wrong Q.

You SHOULD be asking "what can I do to stop my shoulder from hurting when I do muscle ups?"

fret_wimp2

Hanley wrote: »

Can you do 10 strict chest to bar pull ups, and 10 strict shoulder to rings ring dips?

Yes & Yes. Been doing both for years.

Hanley wrote: »

You've hurt your shoulder 3x doing muscle ups.

That's instructive.

(It was actually a set of 5 followed by 4x3 strict, but i didnt mention that. I also agree that volume just after an injury was utterly stupid)
I agree, its very instructive but in a different way. I have been concentrating a LOT more on upper body the last few months. As i could do MU's for years without issue but only having problems now means most likely one of two things:

1. my form was muck and my body has finally decided to tell me to shove it.
I dont think this is the case as a spent a lot of time working up to MU's first, then a lot of time practicing slow single MU's, trying to make sure my technique was not self destructive. Im not saying its perfect but its not terrible.


2. The load from a lot more upper body work put much more pressure on shoulders and i didnt adjust my recovery time. MU's & the extra work were just too much.

If MU's serve no "real purpose" is irrelevant. I could do them, I enjoyed doing them and they are part of crossfit, which i enjoy.

Its like telling a marathon runner that running that far is irrelevant. In everyday life, sure it is, there are lots of other ways to get the benefits without hours of running, wear on joints etc but its the, or part of the challenge.

Your good self, I'm fairly sure have already passed 2x body-weight back-squat, or if you haven't you're probably very close. As my understanding stands, there's a law of diminishing returns in the actual benefits of adding a huge amount more weight above body-weight (or body-weight + half again) to your squat(im sure someone will argue against this!), but you still keep pushing for more, and rightly so.


Im completely happy to step back for weeks/months but with an am to spend that time proactively on recovery with an aim of getting back to 100% of the ability i had. Im currently searching for the correct professional to prescribe the correct rehab routine but i also wanted a very rough timeline to benchmark recovery against, hence the purpose of this thread.

Hanley

Well then the answer still applies...

Q: What can I do to stop my shoulder hurting when doing muscle ups?

A: Give more recovery time / adjust training volume

Your "rotator cuff" is 4 separate muscles and doesn't include things like scapular stabilisation muscles such as rhomboids, mid/lower traps, lev scap and a whole load of other smaller groups.

Depending on what's dysfunctional, and how severely so it is, it could be anything from days, to weeks, to months.

The question is way to open ended to even guess at, which is why you got a principle based answer.

And with regards to squatting, I compete in a spower (powerlifting) where squatting is a primary indicator of your performance. As such it is a crucial part of the sport, and in order to progress you have to get better at it. I don't do them just because I "enjoy" them.

fret_wimp2

Thanks.

That leads on to the next question, a good sports therapist who can diagnose and prescribe the correct rehab program and modify where necessary based on progress or lack of.
Ive been to a few physio's over the years and they are not all equal by a long shot.

thehamo

You need to take proprioceptive input into account when returning to activity. Your brain remembers patterns of injury and will by all means possible try to avoid that injury happening again. If you injured your shoulder doing a muscle up, you will have learned a pattern of "muscle up causes injury" albeit subconsciously. Make no mistake, its a bas*ard to get rid of.

No matter how strong your shoulder is once you put it through that scenario again with out informing the brain its a safe movement, you will be much more prone to injury. Its one of the reasons why someone who has an ankle sprain has a huge re-occurrence rate. They never trained the brain to let it know this is a safe position.

Graded exposure to the exercise is the way forward. Break the movement down into its most simple format and work on that until its completely nailed down pain free. Build it up from there bit by bit until you are able to do a strict muscle up with no pain. Its a slow process, but much less likely hood of re-occurence .:)

fret_wimp2

Cheers for the mention on IrishPowerlifters facebook page Hanley.
Nice of you to forget a lot of detail in there also such as it wasnt 3x muscle ups that caused the issue, it was a much higher volume. Leaving it at 3 and i would have been fine. I freely admit i should have probably just done a lot more drills, finish with one MU and leave it at that and slowly build up to multipals, i got excited i could do them again, ive punished myself enough for that, I know where i went wrong.

You forgot the part where i mentioned i can do the 10+ CTB strict pullups & ring dips without issue.

Also forgot how i thought we cleared about there being "no purpose" in doing them. You remember, its in the thread, i could do them, multiple strict, for years, no problem. They are part of the challenge that is crossfit. And i want to be able to do them again. I dont care if they have serve "no real purpose". Does running a full marathon serve any real purpose? For a non competitive weightlifter, does 2x bodyweight squats server any real purpose? Perhaps people still want to take on the challenge, because its there, or because its part of the sport they enjoy?

I see the value in your facebook post, it shows you're looking at the problem differently, you're clever, you're a good coach. There is no arguing that you know your stuff. Try to step outside your own head & viewpoint and see things from other viewpoints also.

top madra

I didn't tear my rotator cuff I just sprained it and I was out for almost a year and that was with going to a physio.

These days I barely do shoulders and If I do I only use 20kg dumbbells or 40kg bar for higher reps.

P.s I think you're a bit of a moron to continue doing something that has caused you injury.

But you sound like you will continue to, so best of luck with that.

fret_wimp2

top madra wrote: »

I didn't tear my rotator cuff I just sprained it and I was out for almost a tear and that was with going to a physio.

These days I barely do shoulders and If I do I only use 20kg dumbbells or 40kg bar for higher reps.

P.s I think you're a bit of a moron to continue doing something that has caused you injury.

But you sound like you will continue to, so best of luck with that.

Firstly, be civil.
Second, read my first post, at no point did I say MU,s caused my injury. It actually came about initially due to a fall.

The MU's only caused a problem as I went back to them too soon with way too high a volume.

As to why would I go back to them, again, why would a run we go back running after an itb injury, why would a footballer go back to football after a hamstring Injury.

People get injured, usually down to bad form or forgetting to do a move or technique properly. Why can't people learn from The mistake and work to get back to 100 %full health, and the ability to do everything they could before, only with more applied knowledge on how to stay safe?

Seems thr concensus here is if you get burned once never do that thing again. If that applied to everyone, most people would do nothing.

Kinda done with this thread and forum now.

top madra

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Firstly, be civil.
Second, read my first post, at no point did I say MU,s caused my injury. It actually came about initially due to a fall.

The MU's only caused a problem as I went back to them too soon with way too high a volume.

As to why would I go back to them, again, why would a run we go back running after an itb injury, why would a footballer go back to football after a hamstring Injury.

People get injured, usually down to bad form or forgetting to do a move or technique properly. Why can't people learn from The mistake and work to get back to 100 %full health, and the ability to do everything they could before, only with more applied knowledge on how to stay safe?

Seems the concensus here is you get burned once never do that thing again. If that applied to everyone, most people would do nothing.

Kinda done with this thread and forum now.

Mate you hurt your shoulder, then you made it worse by trying MU's too soon (fair enough).

But then you went back and did them again and now you're main concern is how soon can you get back to doing them again, can you not see how dumb that is?

Also you're analogy is a bit flawed, as a runner well he runs and a footballer plays football.

You on the other hand can easily substitute MU's for something less stressful on your shoulders.

But lets be real here, you don't want to hear that, so carry on what you're doing and best of luck.

fret_wimp2

top madra wrote: »

Mate you hurt your shoulder, then you made it worse by trying MU's too soon (fair enough).

But then you went back and did them again and now you're main concern is how soon can you get back to doing them again, can you not see how dumb that is?

Also you're analogy is a bit flawed, as a runner wells he runs and a footballer plays football.

You on the other hand can easily substitute MU's for something less stressful on your shoulders.

But lets be real here, you don't want to hear that, so carry on what you're doing and best of luck.

Yep, you got it. As once I can do them again safely, Il know I'm 100% healed. If I never get back to a state where I can do them safely, I'm obviously not fully better. That doesn't make sense to you?

top madra

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Yep, you got it. As once I can do them again safely, Il know I'm 100% healed. If I never get back to a state where I can do them safely, I'm obviously not fully better. That doesn't make sense to you?

Mate your shoulders are so important and especially the rotator cuff's that until you properly mess them up you don't realise how important they are.

As I said I was out for over a year, you can't even squat properly without your shoulders. I will never make that mistake again.

I just hope you don't mess them up so much that doing MU's will be the least of your worries.

IMO they are a stupid exercise anyhow but thats another days argument. As I've said already, best of luck.

Edit...To answer your question without rambling, it was over 4 years ago since I messed mine up so yes you would say I should be healed, but if I lift heavy I sometimes get that 'niggle' and IMO once you mess up your shoulders they are never healed properly.

fret_wimp2

top madra wrote: »

As I said I was out for over a year, you can't even squat properly without your shoulders. I will never make that mistake again.

Edit...To answer your question without rambling, it was over 4 years ago since I messed mine up so yes you would say I should be healed, but if I lift heavy I sometimes get that 'niggle' and IMO once you mess up your shoulders they are never healed properly.

Genuinely helpful information right there and a good viewpoint based on experience. Thanks!

My ideal aim is still to be able to do them safely, but based on your rotator cuff healing experience I will temper that a lot more with caution & when it does feel healed, il be giving it at least the same duration again before even doing some drills on the rings.

Mahogany Gaspipe

I have an appointment with the phyiso booked for next week to investigate a shoulder injury which I suspect may require a long recovering period. I'm in my late 30's and up till now I have been injury free throughout my 20 odd years of sporting pursuits.

Its important to keep in mind, as you know yourself, that muscle ups are only one of a vast array of exercises.
I totally understand the enjoyment that can come from doing a particular exercise and there is great value in that. Enjoyment may be the primary reason some people workout, it doesn't have to be for trophies, fitness goals or mad gainz.

At the same rate as you get older you need to proactively manage your workouts so they can continue to be a part of your lifestyle for as long as you want them to be.

I'm really disappointed that I am probably looking at a long break from the bar, but the bigger picture is that it will be a relatively short term hiatus which will hopefully facilitate long term benefits.
Perhaps our exercise selection should be viewed in the same light.

Taylor365

Managed to damage my rotator cuff warming up on the bench press (40kg) last year. At the time, i didn't know what the pain was and went on to lift heavy (good lad). Pain went from rear shoulder blade down through the tricep. Took a few physio trips to nail it down as rotator cuff.

I have been doing all the recommended light weight exercises but still can't touch a barbell. After about 6 month I'm back benching with dumbells and have reached the max in my gym (40kg Db).

Also did my opposite rotator cuff lifting something from the backseat of my car while driving...that feels fully healed and strong compared to the other side though.

So i guess it's the severeness of the tear that denotes the duration.