Brakes fail on tractor

Grab All Association

There were chaotic scenes in the village of Ardfinnan in Tipperary today after a tractor lost control and collided with a number of cars on the main street.

According to JOE reader Nigel Carrigan, who sent the pictures below our way, the brakes on the tractor failed, causing it to cause serious damage to at least three cars, one of which was damaged beyond repair.

http://www.joe.ie/news/pics-the-chaotic-scene-in-a-village-in-tipperary-after-a-tractors-brakes-failed-and-ran-over-a-number-of-cars/511500

If this happened in a truck you can be sure the driver would be arrested and charged for driving a dangerously defective vehicle.

A truck, commercial 4x4/van/ambulance and a bus are required to undergo a DOE/HCV test each. There are 160,000 tractors in Ireland and they are not subjected to roadworthiness test. Why?

obezyana

Ooooh someone is going to have a very high claims bill on their back. Regarding the testing, yeah they should be tested every year.

jca

Feckin' modern tractors easy knowing he never drove a Leyland.... they never had any brakes to speak of, all stopping was done by prayer..

Cookie_Monster

Chris___ wrote: »

There are 160,000 tractors in Ireland and they are not subjected to roadworthiness test. Why?

because farmers are a massive lobby group that can put enough pressure on any legislators to get what they want.

There is, in reality, no reason why tractors should be exempt from testing even if they do not use the roads. Agriculture is a high risk profession with a high number of deaths and some subset of these can be attributed to lax legislation like the above IMO

A similar-ish H&S law has just been issued here in NZ where dairy farming has been classified in the lowest risk sector compared to worm or bee farming which are high risk, purely because the dairy sector has the influence despite the stats showing far higher death and injury rates than the other farming classifications. Tis Mad Ted

Shannon757

jca wrote: »

Feckin' modern tractors easy knowing he never drove a Leyland.... they never had any brakes to speak of, all stopping was done by prayer..

That's very true:D

Odyssey 2005

Sure it'll be grand. That will all polish out ☺

jca

A big price increase for FBD customers this year..

kay 9

Twas a john deere ffs. I told him to buy a massey. Nuff said lol

May not have been a mechanical problem and the tractor could have passed a test just fine.

Driver error on these can cause brake failure. Holding the brakes over a long time with a large load can cause brakes to overheat and fail as well. This is brake fade.

cargo

i assumed when I saw it that he was pulling a full load of grain i.e. heavy weight and salonfire said above the drive had reddened the brakes but it says the trailer was empty at the time

Atlantic Dawn

Is there any weight restriction on what a 16 year old tractor driver can haul or could they haul whatever weight they like?

http://www.theorytest.ie/driver-theory-test/test-categories/

jimmycrackcorm

Chris___ wrote:

A truck, commercial 4x4/van/ambulance and a bus are required to undergo a DOE/HCV test each. There are 160,000 tractors in Ireland and they are not subjected to roadworthiness test. Why?

I know, its like, with all these road deaths and serious injuries due to road tractor accidents.... Should be put of the road be lot of them.

drunkmonkey

Suppose next he'll be telling us the trailer brakes failed as well.

foxy farmer

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Suppose next he'll be telling us the trailer brakes failed as well.

Going by some other pics of the accident its possible there were no brakes on the trailer.

Chris___

Chris___ wrote: »

http://www.joe.ie/news/pics-the-chaotic-scene-in-a-village-in-tipperary-after-a-tractors-brakes-failed-and-ran-over-a-number-of-cars/511500

If this happened in a truck you can be sure the driver would be arrested and charged for driving a dangerously defective vehicle.

A truck, commercial 4x4/van/ambulance and a bus are required to undergo a DOE/HCV test each. There are 160,000 tractors in Ireland and they are not subjected to roadworthiness test. Why?

One incident is not a reason to try to bring in a test for tractors for a start they are a totally different machine to all of the above. No construction, work or farm vehicle is subject to a test as it's not deemed necessary. Adding more expense and hassle to farmers would be totally unfair.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Is there any weight restriction on what a 16 year old tractor driver can haul or could they haul whatever weight they like?

http://www.theorytest.ie/driver-theory-test/test-categories/

No restrictions.

jca

foxy farmer wrote: »

Going by some other pics of the accident its possible there were no brakes on the trailer.

+1 on that. Ive never seen brakes on a trailer.

paddysdream

jca wrote: »

+1 on that. Ive never seen brakes on a trailer.

Not being smart but you must not have seen a lot of trailers so.Any ag. trailer made in the last 20+ years came with brakes and most built in the last few years come with air and hydraulic brakes.
Air only useful if the tractor is equipped with air brakes but even decent hydraulic brakes on a trailer, esp. if loaded,will stop you in a surprisingly short distance.

jca

paddysdream wrote: »

Not being smart but you must not have seen a lot of trailers so.Any ag. trailer made in the last 20+ years came with brakes and most built in the last few years come with air and hydraulic brakes.
Air only useful if the tractor is equipped with air brakes but even decent hydraulic brakes on a trailer, esp. if loaded,will stop you in a surprisingly short distance.

Sorry I meant to say I've never seen working brakes on a trailer. Farmers with the bigger tractors have a false sense of security believing the tractor brakes are infallible. Any guys with a smaller tractor drive on the gears knowing they've feck all brakes anyway. I suppose it's a case of old school versus new school, old school driving would have been much better in this guys situation.

paddysdream

jca wrote: »

Sorry I meant to say I've never seen working brakes on a trailer. Farmers with the bigger tractors have a false sense of security believing the tractor brakes are infallible. Any guys with a smaller tractor drive on the gears knowing they've feck all brakes anyway. I suppose it's a case of old school versus new school, old school driving would have been much better in this guys situation.

Have seen a few trailers with less than effective(near useless) brakes,mainly bale trailers dragged out for a few days each year.But any trailers at silage or grain would usually have pretty good braking systems as otherwise you would end up with burnt out tractor brakes very very quickly.
To try and stop a fully loaded trailer with just tractor braking is not really feasible.Even an empty trailer will push you along a bit if its trailer brakes are not good.Air brakes will pull you up very sharpish ,even from 50k.From using a couple(not mine ,all here on oil) anything more than a tap on the tractor brake pedal with air brakes means an instant,hop forward in the seat type of stop.

CianRyan

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

One incident is not a reason to try to bring in a test for tractors for a start they are a totally different machine to all of the above. No construction, work or farm vehicle is subject to a test as it's not deemed necessary. Adding more expense and hassle to farmers would be totally unfair.

What is totally unfair is 3 people in one incident had their cars totalled, this could have been avoided had there been a road worthiness test for a large, heavy vehicle that was being used on the road.

Farmers and construction workers should not be above anyone else, especially seeing as they're in control of the most dangerous vehicles on the road.


Adding more expense and hassle. Get off it, would ya? That's the biggest load I've ever heard.

paddysdream

CianRyan wrote: »

What is totally unfair is 3 people in one incident had their cars totalled, this could have been avoided had there been a road worthiness test for a large, heavy vehicle that was being used on the road.

Farmers and construction workers should not be above anyone else, especially seeing as they're in control of the most dangerous vehicles on the road.


Adding more expense and hassle. Get off it, would ya? That's the biggest load I've ever heard.

Exactly which eu countries have testing for 40k tractors(assuming its that JD 7600 we are talking about)?
Germany has testing if you want to run at 50k and think the UK have it or were considering it.Not for 40k limited machines.
Nct/Doe testing hasnt stopped accidents with cars/trucks etc now has it?
Yes testing, esp. the Nct, has removed many heaps of scrap from our roads but in general I would think that dangerously defective tractors are,as a percentage,much rarer than dangerously defective cars,even now.

CianRyan

paddysdream wrote: »

Exactly which eu countries have testing for 40k tractors(assuming its that JD 7600 we are talking about)?
Germany has testing if you want to run at 50k and think the UK have it or were considering it.Not for 40k limited machines.
Nct/Doe testing hasnt stopped accidents with cars/trucks etc now has it?
Yes testing, esp. the Nct, has removed many heaps of scrap from our roads but in general I would think that dangerously defective tractors are,as a percentage,much rarer than dangerously defective cars,even now.

It's not a question of who else does it, we can stand for ourselves and say it's ridiculous not to test them.

Do you fancy standing in front of a 10 tonne tractor doing 40kph with no brakes?

lleyn

My bet here is that the tractor cut out, this results in no brakes and the operator is along for the ride until something stops it. There's an emergency hand brake on that model which is rarely used due to a transmission lock being mainly used which activated with the main gear stick. Chances are the handbrake leaver would be under a pile of cots if the operator had time to pull it!

Sh1tbag OToole

Oh feck it how predictable the health and safety / regulate everything mob are out in force. Driving a tractor one of the few things left that isn't riddled to hell with bureaucracy and t'would be nice if it would stay that way. Lets face it, most people only hate tractors because they get stuck behind them sometimes and will cling to any spurious incident like the one in the OP to make life hard for tractor drivers.

CianRyan

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Oh feck it how predictable the health and safety / regulate everything mob are out in force. Driving a tractor one of the few things left that isn't riddled to hell with bureaucracy and t'would be nice if it would stay that way. Lets face it, most people only hate tractors because they get stuck behind them sometimes and will cling to any spurious incident like the one in the OP to make life hard for tractor drivers.

So it's fine for the most dangerous vehicles on the road to be let on without any safety standards because, "sure feck health and safety".

That is pure, unfiltered, bollocks.

316

Tractors the most dangerous vehicles on the road :pac: get off the vino Cian

Sh1tbag OToole

CianRyan wrote: »

So it's fine for the most dangerous vehicles on the road to be let on without any safety standards because, "sure feck health and safety".

That is pure, unfiltered, bollocks.

Tractors are far from the most dangerous, sure they slow everyone else down, making them less likely to crash (unless they're impatient bastards who overtake in blind turns)

Supergurrier

kay 9 wrote: »

Twas a john deere ffs. I told him to buy a massey. Nuff said lol

Ahh now a massey is classy but a zetor is better hai

Shannon757

Supergurrier wrote: »

Ahh now a massey is classy but a zetor is better hai

Don't start this again












But nothing runs like a Deere:D

_Brian

I think it would be sensible if tractor-trailer combinations above a certain DGVW were both tested and required a more advanced license to use, a license similar to an artic license would be most sensible.

Modern outfits are now way beyond what was intended to be covered when the tractor classification allowing a 16 YO drive them was introduced.

Thankfully no one was hurt in this incident.

Sh1tbag OToole

_Brian wrote: »

I think it would be sensible if tractor-trailer combinations above a certain DGVW were both tested and required a more advanced license to use, a license similar to an artic license would be most sensible.

Modern outfits are now way beyond what was intended to be covered when the tractor classification allowing a 16 YO drive them was introduced.

Thankfully no one was hurt in this incident.

Feck it I have to agree with you there, or else make the 16 y/o do the test with the trailer attached and have him reverse it around a corner.

CianRyan

**** it, the farm blood arrogance is strong in here. It's useless trying to talk sensibly.

Noccy_Mondy

I find it strange that there isn't some form of basic test for tractors. Even just brakes, steering, lights etc. It's shocking to see the amount of old timers and neglected tractors that do be on the road, with little or no lights. Plenty have dodgy brakes and/or steering.

I come from a farm myself, so I'm not a typical townie that's out of tune, slating the farmer.
On our own tractor, we get it serviced every year or so, and if bulbs blow I try to ensure they are fixed asap.
It's not expensive to keep a tractor in good nick. Ours is 20 years old, yet still in great condition. It's people neglecting them and putting things off that makes some of them the death traps that they are. Little and often as they say.

mickdw

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Feck it I have to agree with you there, or else make the 16 y/o do the test with the trailer attached and have him reverse it around a corner.

But that is not the problem. Any 16 year old who is so inclined to look for a driving job, will be well able to reverse the rig anywhere.
Its just that some of them will lack alittle bit of sense, be inclined to go abit fast etc.
I say put the 16 limit on farm use and put 18 limit and new licence category for tractor with trailer on public road.

Atlantic Dawn

Seems to be rather crazy that you can drive with a non 750kg limit loaded trailer with a tractor on a learner permit at 16 but are not allowed drive a car pulling any sized trailer with a car learner permit.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driver_licensing/categories_of_motor_vehicles_and_minimum_age_of_drivers_in_ireland.html

Kichote

mickdw wrote: »

But that is not the problem. Any 16 year old who is so inclined to look for a driving job, will be well able to reverse the rig anywhere.
Its just that some of them will lack alittle bit of sense, be inclined to go abit fast etc.
I say put the 16 limit on farm use and put 18 limit and new licence category for tractor with trailer on public road.

There shouldn't be any age limit on private ground, thats how youngfellas learn. This 'hands off till yer 16' attitude won't solve anything

freshpopcorn

What kind of car is the red car that got crushed first?

mickdw

I didn't make any comment re learning on private grounds. I meant that 16 should be min age for driving on farms, that could be employed into farm as a farm hand etc and still be legal to have them doing yard work etc.
you currently must be 18 to operate any machine on a building site. I don't see why that couldn't be extended to docking tractors on public road.

Grueller

mickdw wrote: »

I didn't make any comment re learning on private grounds. I meant that 16 should be min age for driving on farms, that could be employed into farm as a farm hand etc and still be legal to have them doing yard work etc.
you currently must be 18 to operate any machine on a building site. I don't see why that couldn't be extended to docking tractors on public road.

I get your point Mick about 18 for driving tractors and definitely for the modern super tractors on the road with large trailers often carrying 20 tonnes plus. Artic lorries only carry 22 tonnes and have a limit of 50 mph while these tractors will tip on at 40 and any 16 yo can drive. However I think that the average tractor with a 30 kph box should be left alone for licensing but these super tractors should need a test yo drive them or over 18 years of age to allow experience.

colm_mcm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What kind of car is the red car that got crushed first?

Looks like a current model Mazda cx5

bigroad

One thing that gets me about learner permit drivers operating tractors on a public road is i have never seen an L plate on any tractor.
Even a motorcyclist has to wear an L plate when learning.
Tractors are totally unregulated.
Every one else on the road has to have a vehicle test and a proper licence to tow heavy trailors.

CianRyan

CianRyan wrote: »

What is totally unfair is 3 people in one incident had their cars totalled, this could have been avoided had there been a road worthiness test for a large, heavy vehicle that was being used on the road.

So you know for a fact this could have been prevented by a test how exactly? There is a absolutely no guarantee that a test would have made any difference.

There is enough bureaucracy to have to deal with withiut out forcing farmers to have to test their tractors.

CianRyan wrote: »

So it's fine for the most dangerous vehicles on the road to be let on without any safety standards because, "sure feck health and safety".

That is pure, unfiltered, bollocks.

The only pure, unfiltered bollocks is your claim that tractors are the most dangerous vehicles on the road

bigroad wrote: »

One thing that gets me about learner permit drivers operating tractors on a public road is i have never seen an L plate on any tractor.
Even a motorcyclist has to wear an L plate when learning.
Tractors are totally unregulated.
Every one else on the road has to have a vehicle test and a proper licence to tow heavy trailors.

Tractor drivers, even young ones are some of the most skilled and competent drivers on the road. Serious accidents on the road involving tractors are almost unheard off, particularly modern tractors pulling big loads so why go meddling in the licensing etc when there is no need.

I was driving tractors, pulling trailers etc when most posting here were just about able to cycle a bike. At 16 I was very competent in driving a tractor as I have years of experience at it.

bigroad

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

So you know for a fact this could have been prevented by a test how exactly? There is a absolutely no guarantee that a test would have made any difference.

There is enough bureaucracy to have to deal with withiut out forcing farmers to have to test their tractors.



The only pure, unfiltered bollocks is your claim that tractors are the most dangerous vehicles on the road



Tractor drivers, even young ones are some of the most skilled and competent drivers on the road. Serious accidents on the road involving tractors are almost unheard off, particularly modern tractors pulling big loads so why go meddling in the licensing etc when there is no need.

I was driving tractors, pulling trailers etc when most posting here were just about able to cycle a bike. At 16 I was very competent in driving a tractor as I have years of experience at it.

You may have been ok as you say to drive a tractor at 16 but thats not to The next fellow will.
Thats why we have a driving licence system in the modern world.
Not every one driving has the same set of skills.

moleyv

Farm machinery should be required to have an annual safety check.

And enforce compliance by linking it to their payments.

Too many accidents on the land. There is a culture of 'it'll be grand'. There should be no more passengers than there are seats. And a proper test needed for driving machinery on the roads.

And there are too many inconsiderate farmers on the main roads and not driving to the conditions on back roads.

I'm talking in general, we don't know the exact cause of this accident. I just hope if there was driver error they will be charged with the relevant offences.

bigroad

bigroad wrote: »

You may have been ok as you say to drive a tractor at 16 but thats not to The next fellow will.
Thats why we have a driving licence system in the modern world.
Not every one driving has the same set of skills.

People just don't start driving at tractors at 16 and go straight out on the road. You will find that despite it being allowed there are very few if any 16 year olds driving big modern tractors with large loads and if they are they will have proved themselves capable to the owner of the machine.

The owner of an 80k+ tractor is not just going to throw the keys to anyone and let them off.

bigroad

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

People just don't start driving at tractors at 16 and go straight out on the road. You will find that despite it being allowed there are very few if any 16 year olds driving big modern tractors with large loads and if they are they will have proved themselves capable to the owner of the machine.

The owner of an 80k+ tractor is not just going to throw the keys to anyone and let them off.

Yes you are right they dont start at 16 they start younger which is more worrying.
An yes you are right most of them dont get the keys to the 80k machine that might be in some way road legal.

They get the keys to the 20year old banger and i am sure they do their vehicle walk around checks before taking the vehicle on the road.
Oh no sorry i forgot Tractor drivers dont have to do that.
Because it will be grand.

John_Rambo

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

So you know for a fact this could have been prevented by a test how exactly? There is a absolutely no guarantee that a test would have made any difference.

There is enough bureaucracy to have to deal with withiut out forcing farmers to have to test their tractors.



The only pure, unfiltered bollocks is your claim that tractors are the most dangerous vehicles on the road



Tractor drivers, even young ones are some of the most skilled and competent drivers on the road. Serious accidents on the road involving tractors are almost unheard off, particularly modern tractors pulling big loads so why go meddling in the licensing etc when there is no need.

I was driving tractors, pulling trailers etc when most posting here were just about able to cycle a bike. At 16 I was very competent in driving a tractor as I have years of experience at it.

I've no doubt you're a skilled machine driver Nox, but you have to admit, not everyone has those skills! I think there's been a couple of tractor road deaths this year alone and it's luck luck and more luck that someone wasn't killed in this particular incident. The roads are a busier place since you were sixteen.

It's a tough one though. A DOE type of test could save lives, create jobs etc... but the cost to the farmer and the added hassle and time would be a problem to busy people. Maybe it should be a free or subsidised service. I wonder was the driver breathalised? I know for a fact if I managed to do that sort of damage in a Land Rover Disco or a Hummer in Dublin I'd be breathalised without a doubt. I'm not suggesting that the driver was drunk, just interested.

My inlaws farm and have one of those John Deere tractors. It's huge, and looks like it was designed with military spec! The machine is unbelievable, the torque, power, ability, strength and build is amazing. They look like they were designed to be worked on the massive tillage farms in MidWest states in America, big flat roads, acres of stopping distance and lots and lots of room.

robtri

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

So you know for a fact this could have been prevented by a test how exactly? There is a absolutely no guarantee that a test would have made any difference.

There is enough bureaucracy to have to deal with withiut out forcing farmers to have to test their tractors.

no there is no guarantee this specific accident would have been prevented if it had a test... but thats no reason why they shouldnt be tested. if they are being used in a public place, they should be fit for use.
not bureaucracy, plain simple if you want to use your tractor around other people, make sure its fit for use... everyone wins...

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

The only pure, unfiltered bollocks is your claim that tractors are the most dangerous vehicles on the road

definitely not the most dangerous, but the 58 (2005 - 2014)farm deaths involving tractors and trailers... mean they are dangerous....

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

Tractor drivers, even young ones are some of the most skilled and competent drivers on the road. Serious accidents on the road involving tractors are almost unheard off, particularly modern tractors pulling big loads so why go meddling in the licensing etc when there is no need.

I was driving tractors, pulling trailers etc when most posting here were just about able to cycle a bike. At 16 I was very competent in driving a tractor as I have years of experience at it.

well if everyone is so so good at driving tractors explain how tractors involved in accidents on farms alone, cant find road ones, caused the 58 deaths over the 9 year period....
there is always room for improvement....

Nichard Dixon

Modern tractors are not the TVO machines when some of the concepts of driving were devised. A test for the machine or driver will only take an hour.

Frida Kind Burglar wrote: »

Tractor drivers, even young ones are some of the most skilled and competent drivers on the road.

They'll have no problem doing a test, so.

John_Rambo

robtri wrote: »

well if everyone is so so good at driving tractors explain how tractors involved in accidents on farms alone, cant find road ones, caused the 58 deaths over the 9 year period....
there is always room for improvement....

I see where you're coming from, but if you read the Farming and Forestry forum it's full of posts about how farmers are cutting corners in desperation to break even, let alone make a profit. Most of them are skilled engineers, and that's not by choice. They service their own machinery, change massive tyres, wheels, brakes. My uncle farmer changed a whole engine in his tractor. Bringing the machinery to a dealer/mechanic is not an option. The expense is just too much.

Judging by his post history Nox seems to be from a fairly affluent farm.. But in most cases it seems someones making money out of farming, and it's not the farmer.

As I said, it's a problem, but it's going to be difficult one to resolve.

Sh1tbag OToole

Could ya imagine driving to a test centre in a fecking tractor, twould take ages. Pure and utter nonsense that these should be tested every year. Brakes can fail at any time even if it passes the test. Had the brakes go on me in a car with valid NCT at one point. People need to stop clinging to government regulation to solve all their problems. If some day a tractor with a valid NCT has the brakes go on them in a high-profile manner the regulations will all need to be tightened up again, test every 6 months! Great! Now farmers will have no time left to do any actual farming just filling in paper work and driving their machines to tests and spending any few bob they earn on mandatory health and safety inspections