Other Irish chess blogs - discussion thread

Chess_Coach

I am here in my private capacity not as member of the Executive .
Answers will be given in to our members - you Leecale could be non member and non chess player as few of them here .
But some answers are given at FB Irish Chess page .Have a look

Sparks

Chess_Coach wrote: »

But some answers are given at FB Irish Chess page .Have a look

What, like these?

Eboards is full of lies and hate towards executive. 7 full of hate members write and lie day and night. But you seems to like that. See you at agm

If I had a vendetta with anyone, then that person would either end up in the morgue or simply go missing and be disappeared from the face of the planet. But I don't do vendettas, I do however fight fire with fire when needs must and you and some of the nasty creeps who parrot such hate and LIES will be made to swallow your words and or be exposed for who and what you are.

I am every bit as brave and pleasant in person <name snipped> as you are sometimes real dumb. I have given you more time than you ever deserved. You mix with liars, malcontents and hate mongers. It is only a virtual inevitability that you become one of them.

I will delete comments as this block and remove person from the group. Write this on your wall not here

And so on. And it's been like that for a long time now Darko, it's not a recent thing. It's a very toxic place.

Chess_Coach

This last one ---- I will delete was one writing bad about GG and MO and it was posted by well known member from Limerick .
The first one about 7 people writing at Boards is kinda ok . Those hate this Executive and they wrote against certain people in the Executive in the past. I also wrote that they are used and manipulated . It is interesting that they never write anything nice and that they are lacking objective view. It is my personal opinion Marc or Mark. Please have a look at your black notebook that you had at the AGM few years ago . Look your tweets from AGM you were great in all of those but not that great at blitz as I recall. Shame that you made me your enemy for no reason . Where is Ulster Boy ? I miss him now
Think twice Mark do not attack with no reason and talk to me about chess in Ireland . For 15 years now I work for Irish chess day and night and using my friends from FIDE and ECU to make this nation great at chess.
Think about my project of coaching juniors here in Ireland .It was my dream . To coach top 50 players by our finest .
It works now and it is great .
Did you ever ask how you could help me ? Never. You just oppose anything I do and ignore the good things I gave to ICU .
Look my record in ICU Executive and think twice .
Transparency and fairness that is me . No game playing no lies and setups .Just hard work for you members

Sparks

Chess_Coach wrote: »

This one I will delete was one writing bad about GG

But you think the others were fine? And you and I both know those aren't the worst examples from the last year or two. Explicit threats of violence, more defamation than you could readily count, pages and pages of complete bile.
And that's what people looking for Irish chess on facebook find first.

Don't you ever worry about the effect that has?

ComDubh

It's a bit off-topic but that FB page and some of the postings here create an extremely bad impression of chess. @ChessCoach If you're really a chess coach, you should be concerned about this.

I am indeed an ICU member. The questions can be answered in the members-only area of the ICU site and I'll be happy to read them there. However the ICU have been promising this for ages and I sense no answers will be forthcoming.

Chess_Coach

LOL
If I am really a coach ??? No comment my chess friend.

In the mid time please do not take side and be objective .

I have a question for you who is the member of the ICU who is having the most financial and power gain by being member of the Executive?
Who was and why most time Team Captain .
I came from very strong Chess State . The team captain is usually player who represented State in Chess . We have 1500 rated player who didnt play chess for 20 years and who in time of that did not have any FIDE title ( Arbiter or Trainer )

Why I am asking you ?

Who is paid arbiter at the most Irish tournaments and who can offer this

Live coverage at ICU website for his own business ?

Who is that man please ? Do you know ? O lets offer him Tournament Controller Office please perhaps ?
No ? Yes ?

Chess_Coach

Sparks wrote: »

But you think the others were fine? And you and I both know those aren't the worst examples from the last year or two. Explicit threats of violence, more defamation than you could readily count, pages and pages of complete bile.
And that's what people looking for Irish chess on facebook find first.

Don't you ever worry about the effect that has?

You can always report the page and argue that something written is wrong .
And people post there with they real names and photos .
So it is much easier to take action if you wish so .
I believe that people posting there are standing behind their words

Sparks

Chess_Coach wrote: »

You can always report the page and argue that something written is wrong .

You're the admin of that group; you're saying you're happy to leave that stuff up there unless someone reports you to facebook and has them deal with it?

And people post there with they real names and photos .

Do they? I can scroll back up less than six months in that group and find people who were not doing so, for an extended period.

I believe that people posting there are standing behind their words

You think that's a good thing given the words they're using?

Tell me Darko, if a parent wanted to know whether or not to send their child to your chess club knowing you'd be responsible for them and they went looking for you on facebook and found that group, what do you think they'd decide to do?

Lecale

I believe that the group is private now.

cdeb

No, it's still public. Just search for it and you can read all posts.

Such as the attached spectacular one, which is an utter, utter disgrace -

Names like Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris were once akin to Sainthood and though the dastardly deeds of these people are not anything of the type and seriousness of those perpetrated by Mark Orr.

Yet it stays up there.

To me, that should be a matter for a disciplinary hearing.

Chess_Coach

To me lots of lies written here should be as well matter for a disciplinary hearing .

cdeb

What?

Chess_Coach deflects to a different subject rather than addresses the matter at hand?

Well I never!

Do you - as the moderator of that blog - condone the attached post?

I'll refer to you to my mod warning earlier today btw.

Chess_Coach

The another moderator posted and you have two possibility
To report him in fb or report to me . However you ll never do that but you will go and publish this here without doing so .
Did you report that article ?

cdeb

Does something that blatant require reporting?

In any event, I reported to you it just above.

Do you condone the post? Do you think it's appropriate to suggest Orr is worse than child sex offenders?

pawntof4

I can't imagine what parents looking to get there children into chess would think looking at a posts like that. What about potential sponsors?

From what I've read it looks like an echo chamber for a few people who think because they've raised a few quid for the ICU or have been involved in a few coaching lessons for kids that they can say whatever they want. It doesn't seem to matter whether it's hurting Irish chess or not.

Chess_Coach

cdeb wrote: »

Does something that blatant require reporting?

In any event, I reported to you it just above.

Do you condone the post? Do you think it's appropriate to suggest Orr is worse than child sex offenders?

Did I write this and why do you ask me . Ask the other moderator please .
He is mod as well as I am

cdeb

I am asking you, as a moderator of that forum, if you condone that post.

Staggeringly, from your refusal to answer, I have to conclude that you do condone it.

A junior coach condoning something like this. Welcome to Irish chess.

cdeb

Chess_Coach reply deleted.

A reminder of my post on this very thread about staying on topic.

If you want to talk about how great you are, you are more than welcome to start a new thread.

Chess_Coach

I will not answer at public forum because you never reported the post or group .
If you red and didnt report then I assume you agreed with this as well.
You do have something against me personal y which I will easily prove with all screen shots that I have .
Being the junior coach with record of beating your team is good . It is shame that you want to use this way to defeat me is just so low.
All people here can easily see that you have personal issue with me and not other way round

pawntof4

cdeb wrote: »

I am asking you, as a moderator of that forum, if you condone that post.

Staggeringly, from your refusal to answer, I have to conclude that you do condone it.

A junior coach condoning something like this. Welcome to Irish chess.

I would have to agree. I wonder can chess_coach let us know if he thinks posts like this help or hinder chess in Ireland?

Sparks

Chess_Coach wrote: »

I will not answer at public forum because you never reported the post or group .
If you red and didnt report then I assume you agreed with this as well

Do not assume so; I do not agree with it.

Chess_Coach

The 3 against one is not enough boys not here and not in real lol come one brave people. You are getting personal lads .
Full of hate and frustration all of you . I am alone not calling mates.
I am responsible only for what I do and write .

pawntof4

Chess_Coach wrote: »

The 3 against one is not enough boys not here and not in real lol come one brave people

I am not against you. I'm glad a member of the current exec is willing to engage with the Irish chess community.

I will admit I find your inability to answer basic questions can be frustrating at times.

Chess_Coach

The question that I can answer in my private capacity I ll do gladly.
However the reports are very sensitive and I have suggested to Executive that they should be published at ICU website .
Imagine the letter from Executive to MCU President was hidden from members of the MCU AGM. So even when letter is sent they do not want to inform the members. Just try for moment be fair and objective.

Why would ICU Chairman the real Gentleman go this road if he had another choice ?
The amount of sabotage was just breathtaking .

The fundamental question is

Who is having the most financial gain as member of the Executive ? Who is in Executive for 10 plus years in various positions and why ?

Who is really controlling ICU ?

Sparks

Chess_Coach wrote: »

3 against one

Darko, quit that nonsense. It's not anyone against anyone. This is not a schoolyard. If more than one person disagrees with you, then more than one person disagrees with you. That's life.
The moderation in here has specific, open rules. They're listed in the per-forum charter, there are basic site rules in the T&Cs that you signed, and they're the rules for everyone. There are three forum moderators here - cdeb, reunion and neo_ninja. There are some category moderators like myself and steve, but we don't mod the forum unless we're on and nobody else is available and something truly over the line is posted. If you think any moderator's broken the rules, there's a documented procedure for independent arbitration by either the cmods who aren't involved, or the admins.

That's the system, that's how it works. We do not get into threats and stupid schoolyard nonsense. Your ICU rating does not dictate your posting privileges. Everyone gets to post if they want to so long as they adhere to the forum charter. That's what this place is.

And none of that means that you can post daft stuff and not have your ideas challanged. That's life. You're free to say 1+1=3. Everyone else is free to say you're wrong.

That's what's happened here. You need to stop thinking it's a personal attack; it's people disagreeing with something you've said or done. You are not under attack.

pawntof4

Chess_Coach wrote: »

The question that I can answer in my private capacity I ll do gladly.
However the reports are very sensitive and I have suggested to Executive that they should be published at ICU website .
Imagine the letter from Executive to MCU President was hidden from members of the MCU AGM. So even when letter is sent they do not want to inform the members.

I think you misunderstood. My question is do you think the post that cbeb referenced on the Chess Ireland facebook page helps or hinders chess in Ireland?

pawntof4

Chess_Coach wrote: »

Who is having the most financial gain as member of the Executive ?

Who is in Executive for 10 plus years in various positions and why ?

Who is really controlling ICU ?

Do you have answers to any of these questions? I would be really interested to know. I was under the impression that as Chairman and Secretary, Pat Fitzsimons and Eugene Donohoe are the main guys running the ICU.

Chess_Coach

The Executive run ICU not one or two men. In the past that was the case but not now

pawntof4

Chess_Coach wrote: »

The Executive run ICU not one or two men. In the past that was the case but not now

I didn't say Executive was two men. I said they were the main guys but back to my questions.


Again my very straightforward question is do you think the post that cbeb referenced on the Chess Ireland facebook page helps or hinders chess in Ireland?

cdeb

I'm sure Chess_Coach will reply on his return from his temporary ban, pawntof4.

(Just in case you missed it on the other thread)

cdeb

So now the facebook page reckons the Mark Orr matter should be reported to the police (but it's very sensitive why, so no reasons are given).

And obviously there's no reason at all why an accusation like that should just be thrown about publicly.

Sparks

I'm half tempted to report that one to facebook, but given their... somewhat lower bar for "what, is that offensive?" compared to here, I'm not sure anything would be done.

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

I'm half tempted to report that one to facebook, but given their... somewhat lower bar for "what, is that offensive?" compared to here, I'm not sure anything would be done.

Well done Sparks, you finally made me laugh !

Sparks

sinbad68 wrote: »

Well done Sparks, you finally made me laugh !

By thinking that someone saying something mean about people was less important than (to take a real example), some preteen complaining to facebook that a family member had posted nude photos of her online? If perspective is that funny...

must have a jest

This thread is totally one-sided. That's why Facebook is the place to be for guys like me and Supercoach. The tiny minority of haters on this hateful blog of hatred just don't get it. Come the AGM, the ordinary hard working members of the ICU will understand the necessities of cleaning shop: cancelling tournaments, dismantling the website, suspending the rating system, dispensing with due process, banning life members in secret, bypassing the constitution and rejecting motions. These are simply unavoidable bumps along the road if the evil that festers at the heart of Irish chess is to be rooted out.
And now a group of dilettantes are staging an outrageous, elaborate coup (called an "election") to reverse this process. This privileged few and their baroque Machiavellian plans...blah blah blah

(excuse me, I am being dragged away kicking and screaming like a lunatic...I'll be back later for more discussion under a new username)

rob51

Chess_Coach wrote: »

The question that I can answer in my private capacity I ll do gladly.
However the reports are very sensitive and I have suggested to Executive that they should be published at ICU website .
Imagine the letter from Executive to MCU President was hidden from members of the MCU AGM. So even when letter is sent they do not want to inform the members. Just try for moment be fair and objective.

Why would ICU Chairman the real Gentleman go this road if he had another choice ?
The amount of sabotage was just breathtaking .

The fundamental question is

Who is having the most financial gain as member of the Executive ? Who is in Executive for 10 plus years in various positions and why ?

Who is really controlling ICU ?

Since coach apparently saw the letter then he knows it contained no explanation of why the ICU Chairman and Executive totally ignored two articles of the ICU Constitution. That was the point at issue in the MCU AGM nothing else. Just like coach the letter was long on allegations but totally ignored the actual issue raised at the AGM.
Would coach or the Gentleman he referred to explain simply why they believe they acted fairly in ignoring the ICU constitution.

cdeb

Worth highlighting the attached exchange on the facebook page.

You can go into Kevin Scully's account and see it was formed in 2015, and he has 3 friends, including both moderators of the facebook page (and one other recent contributor)

I suspect this exchange is actually Darko talking literally to himself.

This is the kind of behaviour we're being asked to endorse and vote in again at the upcoming AGM.

Edit - in fact, the Kevin Scully account was originally Kevin Flathead (you can see the latter tagged earlier in the thread, but it links into Kevin Scully). Kevin Flathead is a name also used by Colm on his blog. So it seems reasonable to assume that either Colm or Darko have set up a new account to talk to themselves and give the appearance of more support for their position.

I should note in reply to rob51's post above that Chess_Coach has had his ban extended to one month for sending abusive and threatening PMs to posters here. So that explains why no reply yet.

Tim Harding

That JPG was distasteful but interesting. I am not on Facebook and don't normally wish to poison my mind by reading that sort of stuff but a little of taste of what they are up to is no harm, perhaps.
It gives a glimpse into the "last days in the Fuehrer bunker" mentality of the people concerned. It is of course no surprise that they believe they are crusading in a righteous cause, so there is a sort of mirror image with some of their opponents on this board, which may make judgment hard for casual readers of this forum.
Also no doubt, as they say, the "quiet-spoken gentlemanly chairperson... has no personal agenda". That just makes him a pawn, the ideal front man for DP, CD and perhaps others unknown to me on the ICU executive. As I do not know which others are responsible for the current situation I shall vote against all of them.

Unfortunately, whoever wins this election, I fear the Irish scene has been badly damaged for a long time to come with little prospect of good publicity, let alone sponsorship for tournaments etc.
Having had a detailed (though not always clear) response to the thread I started a few days ago, requesting a list of the alleged transgressions of the current executive, and realising I've wasted too much time on this board as a result, I don't intend to make any more postings on this or related topics. I do intend, though, to attend the agm and register a vote for change.

I hope everyone else reading this will do the same. There should be no complacency about the intentions or ability of the current committee and their associates to get their vote out on the day.
I would also caution against their rhetorical attempts to make the behaviour of Mark Orr and/or the track record of Pete Morriss an issue in any way in persuading members how to vote. Neither of those two are candidates.

The only points in relation to Mark Orr that we as voters should consider are:
1) Was due disciplinary process followed against him? (Pretty evidently it was not and the executive has tried to hide the whole thing from the membership.)
2) Why was his recommendation for a successor not accepted, especially in the light of the fact that the I.C.U. has failed to run a satisfactory website for a great part of its term of office?

The last point I wish to make that is that it is most unsatisfactory that the elected Hon. Sec. was replaced last month by a nominee and that the candidate nominated to run against him has been disallowed. I don't know whether the grounds on which his nomination was refused are valid; perhaps so. The lack of an opponent in the forthcoming election is particularly disturbing because the new Hon. Sec. is a member of the same chess club as the current chairperson.
Under the circumstances I believe that the election of the new secretary should not be automatic. Either alternative candidates should be allowed to be nominated or some other way found to have a contest for the position. I also hope and expect that the former Hon. Sec. will give an account to the agm for his period in office along with his reasons for resigning.

Ficheall

I see Daly has a swathe of new 'password protected' posts up today, condemning each of the non-incumbent candidates.

Sparks

'password protected' posts

Be grateful for small mercies, I prefer sewage be inside the septic tank rather than spread all over the driveway myself.

edit: Might be worth noting though, that merely password protecting a page does not mean it isn't publication from the point of view of the Defamation Act 2009, because "private" there means person-to-person with reasonable expectation that the defamation itself might never reach third parties, which is patently not the case here.

rob51

I love the bit about beta testing!!! If Marks website was being beta tested what could you possibly say about its attempted replacement.:)

Off with their heads immediately must be the only option.

Ballynafeigh Chess

rob51 wrote: »

Off with their heads immediately must be the only option.

So a slow spit roast followed by a drawing and quartering isn't even being considered then

Sparks

You can't spit roast someone and draw and quarter them BC, it's the Daffy Duck problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEYYYMuwCyA

pawntof4

Has the Irish chess Facebook page disappeared?

reunion

pawntof4 wrote: »

Has the Irish chess Facebook page disappeared?

No they ban members that don't agree with their point of view. No matter how valid your questions may be.

My guess is you are banned.

pawntof4

yep that was it.

iriship

I need to be to the good side of the force, how do I get my badge of honor, sorry i mean BAN from the fb page

cdeb

Posting here is usually a good start.

sinbad68

iriship wrote: »

I need to be to the good side of the force, how do I get my badge of honor, sorry i mean BAN from the fb page

If you post comments against current executive on fb page, you will be verbally mauled, but in terms of believing in freedom of speech and letting their opponents have their say and post comments , the fb page does display sportsmanship and it is not that easy to get banned from the fb page !, it prefers mauling rather than banning !.

Sparks

By which you mean that there are only two moderators and neither of them ban people so if you're banned, as they don't ban people it was Mark Zuckerberg who did it because Reasons; and of course they believe in free speech to the point where defamation is ignored, civility is one of those foreign concepts they don't hold with, logic is something for other people in other places, and anyone who disagrees with a moderator is a venial liar of the lowest character and needs to be physically assaulted at any public meeting and must be verbally threatened leading up to such meetings and of course anyone who doesn't go to such a meeting is a coward and should have the Gardai called to keep an eye on them while anyone who does go to such a meeting is just a timewaster looking to reintroduce eight hour long meetings and damage Irish Chess to make money.


Yeah, it's a great place. The very jewel of the web. Why facebook doesn't laud it more is a mystery.

And to be serious, they do do wonders to uphold the art of waffling for ten pages without ever making a clear point; they've obviously missed their calling in public office...

sinbad68

Sparks wrote: »

By which you mean that there are only two moderators and neither of them ban people so if you're banned, as they don't ban people it was Mark Zuckerberg who did it because Reasons; and of course they believe in free speech to the point where defamation is ignored, civility is one of those foreign concepts they don't hold with, logic is something for other people in other places, and anyone who disagrees with a moderator is a venial liar of the lowest character and needs to be physically assaulted at any public meeting and must be verbally threatened leading up to such meetings and of course anyone who doesn't go to such a meeting is a coward and should have the Gardai called to keep an eye on them while anyone who does go to such a meeting is just a timewaster looking to reintroduce eight hour long meetings and damage Irish Chess to make money.

Honestly, The above paragraph needs serious reformat, specially the first two sentences make no sense at all and hard to understand what you are trying to say.I am neutral and not a supporter of fb page.

Only a few days to go til it's over, a large turnout is expected in the agm. Would anyone hazard a guess about turnout numbers and the result of Pat vs John for the job of chairman ?. I've done some calculations & have a estimate.