How many all Ireland's will KK win out of the next 10

Deskjockey

So they've won 11 of the last 16, 8 of the last 10 and 4 of the last 5. They seem to be way ahead of the pack with nobody getting close to them. There's no sign of a certain Mr Brian Cody retiring. At what stage should some change be made to the structure before people get disillusioned with the setup for example splitting Kilkenny into North and South Kilkenny for example.

My prediction 7.

keeponhurling

Well, I'd say <5

They haven't been particularly dominant at minor or U21, which would give some encouragement to the likes of Clare, Galway, Limerick, Wexford etc
Waterford also won a minor All-Ireland and these players are starting to come through.

The KK team that won this year doesnt have many very young players.

Plus, Cody won't be there for another 10 years, and he is a crucial part of their success

adrian522

I don't know about that, the team in 2009 didn't have that many "very young players". Neither did the team in 2006 or in 2000.

Also Kilkenny were minor champions in 2014 and were very close to repeating the trick this year. Also they have been very successful in recent years at colleges level.

The main difference is that KK don't tend to throw U-21s into the senior setup unless they are truly exceptional.

L

willietherock

Minimum 7. If Cody stays around 8 or9 .

savannahkat

It would be nice if other counties came up to break our dominance. Galway have everything necessary to win one. Experience while lacking to a degree last Sunday should not be a problem in future for them. Tipperary are short maybe three really dominant players one at midfield and two ball winning half forwards. If they can find them they to have everything required. It is hard to figure out Clare and why they have regressed so badly however it is only now they are beginning to reach physical maturity. They have the skill it remains to be seen if they are tough enough. Waterford also are a few players short of being the finished article. Great improvement this year at the expense of being expansive which was always a Waterford strength. It is up to McGrath as to wether he is going to go out to win at all costs next year instead of just surviving. They will be a serious team if they knuckle down and start playing to win but do need a few more tougher players. Limerick will always be tough enough and perhaps if they can rope in about 4 from this years under 21 and last years minors wont be too far away. Dublin need a lot of new players. Cork do not look to be serious challengers for a long time to come. It is said they can come over night but I am not so sure that is true anymore. Kilkenny's dominance will end and right now both Galway and Tipp are well capable of beating us. Some others as said have the potential if they are prepared to work as hard as Kilkenny. If Kilkenny win three of the next ten it will be about as much as we can expect.

keeponhurling

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't know about that, the team in 2009 didn't have that many "very young players". Neither did the team in 2006 or in 2000.

Also Kilkenny were minor champions in 2014 and were very close to repeating the trick this year. Also they have been very successful in recent years at colleges level.

The main difference is that KK don't tend to throw U-21s into the senior setup unless they are truly exceptional.

L

Well they won 4/5 seniors, however only 1/5 and 0/5 in minor and u21.

Obviously a lot can happen between underage and senior, but it does give some hope to the rest.

Depends how many Leinster titles they win.

If they get clear runs into the semi final then the journey is made all the easier as they'll play a former loser in the semi final.

If however they were getting put out in Leinster quarters/semis it leaves a much bigger challenge of winning 4/5/6 straight.

Not sure id hold too much hope there though as Wexford were a false dawn, Dublin are at the very least inconsistent and that leaves Galway as the only possible contender with only 1 win in their last 7 odd meetings.

Leinster is the key really, certainly wouldn't be winning 7/8 if they were scarcely winning any LF's.

citykat

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Depends how many Leinster titles they win.

.

2012?

citykat

citykat wrote: »

2012?

2013?

Point of the thread wasn't for a one off year. But a 10 year period.
Also 2012 they lost the final so it was just one extra game.

But if KK were to say win only 4 of the next 10 LF's then it makes the job monumentally harder.

However as I said previously, I can't see much challenge bar Galway and that challenge hasn't been good enough to expect any immediate changes there.

citykat

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Galway and that challenge hasn't been good enough to expect any immediate changes there.

Keep the faith!

Mountainlad

In 2009 there was no hope of change really. Cork had been knocked out before the quarters having gone way back since 2006. Waterford had lost the final the previous year by 23 points and never really looked like winning the all Ireland semi. Galway were Galway. The less said about Limerick and Clare the better. To top things off, the previous year Tipp and Kilkenny played in the u21 final while Kilkenny beat Galway in the Minor final. If ever there was a year when things looked bleak it was the back end of 2008.

And yet at the end of 2009 I was hopeful, as Waterford had won their first minor Munster since 1992, Clare had won their first ever u21 all Ireland. It was the start of something. Since then, Clare have won three more u21 all Ireland's, Galway have won one, Limerick have 2 u21 Munsters, Wexford have 3 u21 Leinsters (one of those 2 will win an all Ireland this year), Waterford have won a minor all Ireland. Kilkenny have two minor all Ireland's but I would see its some depletion in their stock all the same.

They were incredible this year which is a bit ominous, but they have lost games and not won games that they would have had no problems winning from 2006-2009 since 2012. A lot of other teams have favorable age profiles and I think for a few their best players aren't in their prime yet. Clare need a new manager, Limerick need a new approach, Waterford and Galway need to build on this year and Wexford need to translating u21 into Senior. I think that most of those teams will get their house in order and be challenging. Impossible to say how many Kilkenny will win but I would say no more than half.

The_Kew_Tour

7 or 8.

Seeing Limerick and Waterford do well underage means little as both crumble once they meet Kilrenny or near final.

blackcard

After the AI in 2013, there was a headline in the Sunday Independent 'RIP Kilkenny Hurling, See you in 10 years'. So the predictions back then would have been for few if any AI.Kilkenny have been very poor at U21 level recently, being beaten by Wexford the last 3 years including thrashings the last two years. Larkin might have one year left whilst Michael Fennelly and Richie Power have chronic injuries and you couldn't depend on them to be around much longer. The subs bench for Kilkenny has never been as poor. Tipp, Galway and Clare should be in a better position than KK for the next few years given age profile of their teams.

Fort Stranger

blackcard wrote: »

After the AI in 2013, there was a headline in the Sunday Independent 'RIP Kilkenny Hurling, See you in 10 years'. So the predictions back then would have been for few if any AI.Kilkenny have been very poor at U21 level recently, being beaten by Wexford the last 3 years including thrashings the last two years. Larkin might have one year left whilst Michael Fennelly and Richie Power have chronic injuries and you couldn't depend on them to be around much longer. The subs bench for Kilkenny has never been as poor. Tipp, Galway and Clare should be in a better position than KK for the next few years given age profile of their teams.

Well who will still be in the Kilkenny squad in five years time- the two Murphy's Joey, Walsh Buckley fogarty TJ Hogan, Wally, J Power, Aylward, Colin Fennelly plus whatever comes through like Blancfield etc?

zombieHanalei

Depends on how long Cody is at the helm. The man who follows him has an impossible task. I'd imagine his successor will still enjoy a tenure that would be considered successful by most standards but will not match Cody's success, Cody is one of sport's greatest ever managers, never mind hurling....

Orizio

Eight out of ten minimum.

Wolf Club

People talk about Kilkenny having a weak bench, older age profile and poor u21s, but at the end of the day, how many of the current players came into the team while still under 21? Walter Walsh and Cillian Buckley? Galway, Waterford, Limerick always seem to have 18-21 year olds in their starting XV as they are the best hurlers available to them at that particular time, where as Kilkenny's best always seem to be in the 25-30 bracket. For instance, would Cian Lynch, Conor Whelan or Shane Bennett have started for Kilkenny in the Championship at this stage of their careers? Probably not I'd say. Inversely, if Ger Aylward were from the aforementioned counties, would be making his Championship debut at the age of 23? Again, probably not.

It certainly makes it very hard to predict where they will be in 5 years time when Reid, Hogan, et al. are the far side of thirty but when you see the amount of players they have that burst on to the scene as well established players in their early to mid twenties, you'd imagine that they should win quite a few of the next ten.

danganabu

blackcard wrote: »

After the AI in 2013, there was a headline in the Sunday Independent 'RIP Kilkenny Hurling, See you in 10 years'. So the predictions back then would have been for few if any AI.

That's being a bit disingenous now! That was a quote from a KK fan, it was only half of the headline and the entire article that followed argued the exact opposite.

commonsense.

Deskjockey wrote: »

So they've won 11 of the last 16, 8 of the last 10 and 4 of the last 5. They seem to be way ahead of the pack with nobody getting close to them. There's no sign of a certain Mr Brian Cody retiring. At what stage should some change be made to the structure before people get disillusioned with the setup for example splitting Kilkenny into North and South Kilkenny for example.

My prediction 7.

Orizio wrote: »

Eight out of ten minimum.

Orizo if your doomsday prediction (for everybody but KK) proves accurate something will have to be considered along the lines suggested above by Deskjockey. Radical I know, but if this scenario were to happen something along those lines would be needed.
Or would it? Can a situation where one team utterly dominates be allowed continue without measures being taken?

Dyr

keeponhurling wrote: »

Plus, Cody won't be there for another 10 years, and he is a crucial part of their success

Cody has created a pool of talent and experience that no other county can match, Whoever succeeds him will have spent their hurling career in the system he perfected which should lead to a smooth continuance

blackcard

You could equally ask how many AI will Galway win in the next 10 years. They more than matched KK in the first half and if Joe Canning had scored from a free in the 63rd minute would have been within two points. With another years experience and conditioning, particularly for their younger players like the Mannions, Flynn, Hanbury and Whelan, they should be good enough to beat Kilkenny and the age profile of their team is better

Dirty Dingus McGee

blackcard wrote: »

You could equally ask how many AI will Galway win in the next 10 years. They more than matched KK in the first half and if Joe Canning had scored from a free in the 63rd minute would have been within two points. With another years experience and conditioning, particularly for their younger players like the Mannions, Flynn, Hanbury and Whelan, they should be good enough to beat Kilkenny and the age profile of their team is better

You could equally argue that Galway were completely hammered in the second half and were nowhere close to Kilkenny once Kilkenny started to play close to their best.

MfMan

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You could equally argue that Galway were completely hammered in the second half and were nowhere close to Kilkenny once Kilkenny started to play close to their best.

One of the tricks about winning (tight games) is to maximise your periods of ascendancy and stop the rot as much as possible when on the hind foot. Galway have to learn this, no two ways about it. Strong odds against them matching KK's success rate over the next 10 years but there is an AI in them, they have enough good players to succeed.

“Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” - Winston Churchill.

Deskjockey

commonsense. wrote: »

Orizo if your doomsday prediction (for everybody but KK) proves accurate something will have to be considered along the lines suggested above by Deskjockey. Radical I know, but if this scenario were to happen something along those lines would be needed.
Or would it? Can a situation where one team utterly dominates be allowed continue without measures being taken?

Is there any other reasonable option bar splitting KK in two if KK go and win abother 8 out of the next 10... Any suggestions?

jmayo

Deskjockey wrote: »

Is there any other reasonable option bar splitting KK in two if KK go and win abother 8 out of the next 10... Any suggestions?

Make them field a football team and I don't mena the British Junior championship.

Every county has hurling team in National League bar Cavan AFAIK.

Hell even Warwickshire and London have teams in it and London has one in football.

If a lot of football counties adopted Kilkenny's attitude divisions 3A, 3B and possibly one of 2A or 2B would disappear from National League.

danganabu

Deskjockey wrote: »

Is there any other reasonable option bar splitting KK in two if KK go and win abother 8 out of the next 10... Any suggestions?

Yes, its up to the other counties to reach teh level of KK, talking of splitting a county is quite frankly ludicrous, other counties need to get their house in order rather than looking for help from Croke Park and KK.

adrian522

jmayo wrote: »

Make them field a football team and I don't mena the British Junior championship.

Every county has hurling team in National League bar Cavan AFAIK.

Hell even Warwickshire and London have teams in it and London has one in football.

If a lot of football counties adopted Kilkenny's attitude divisions 3A, 3B and possibly one of 2A or 2B would disappear from National League.

Maybe if Mayo dropped the hurling team they'd get over the line in football (or maybe it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever)

commonsense.

Deskjockey wrote: »

Is there any other reasonable option bar splitting KK in two if KK go and win abother 8 out of the next 10... Any suggestions?

Ah to be honest suggesting splitting KK into 2 is a nonsense.

But if we do reach a situation where KK totally dominate the next decade it will be a sure sign that the rest of the hurling world has fallen into serious decline as opposed to KK excelling.
For what it's worth I don't see that situation happening. I think Tipp/Galway/Waterford/Clare/Limerick/Wexford will win a few between them in the next decade. Cork are at least 5 years away from winning one (and that assumes they finally begin to get their house in order!!!!!). But the other hurling counties seem to have hurling houses in relatively good order.
I don't think KK are disappearing anytime soon but I do believe the pitch will begin to level out shortly.
History will record KKs 11 titles in 16 years as truly exceptional and rightly so.

JeffKenna

I reckon this talk of splitting KK in two isn't going far enough, split them in 4.

savannahkat

jmayo wrote: »

Make them field a football team and I don't mena the British Junior championship.

Every county has hurling team in National League bar Cavan AFAIK.

Hell even Warwickshire and London have teams in it and London has one in football.

If a lot of football counties adopted Kilkenny's attitude divisions 3A, 3B and possibly one of 2A or 2B would disappear from National League.

From todays Examiner "This refreshed spirit propelled a rejigged panel to splendour on Croke Park grass sooner than most observers thought possible. Sure enough, there is plenty disquiet about the champions’ campaign. Online GAA discussion roiled, during the week, with a cocktail of begrudgery, disgust, envy, fear, resentment and unease. That whole cráic is brewing again."

Mehapoy

commonsense. wrote: »

Ah to be honest suggesting splitting KK into 2 is a nonsense.

But if we do reach a situation where KK totally dominate the next decade it will be a sure sign that the rest of the hurling world has fallen into serious decline as opposed to KK excelling.
For what it's worth I don't see that situation happening. I think Tipp/Galway/Waterford/Clare/Limerick/Wexford will win a few between them in the next decade. Cork are at least 5 years away from winning one (and that assumes they finally begin to get their house in order!!!!!). But the other hurling counties seem to have hurling houses in relatively good order.
I don't think KK are disappearing anytime soon but I do believe the pitch will begin to level out shortly.
History will record KKs 11 titles in 16 years as truly exceptional and rightly so.

For the people stating Waterford/limerick/galway/wexford will win all Irelands over the next few years where is the precedent? I mean Waterford haven't won an ai in 40 or 50 years, Limerick have won 1 ai in 70 or 80 years, it's 30 years since galway won one, wexfords is 20 years ago, clare and tipp granted have a bit of history of winning in the last 10 years which makes a massive difference, but it would take an exceptional efford between management, players and county board with alot of luck thrown in for only one of them to come through...I'm not sure they have the wherewithal to bring that together at this stage ...so Kilkenny will be taking the majority of the all Ireland's still..

commonsense.

Mehapoy wrote: »

For the people stating Waterford/limerick/galway/wexford will win all Irelands over the next few years where is the precedent? I mean Waterford haven't won an ai in 40 or 50 years, Limerick have won 1 ai in 70 or 80 years, it's 30 years since galway won one, wexfords is 20 years ago, clare and tipp granted have a bit of history of winning in the last 10 years which makes a massive difference, but it would take an exceptional efford between management, players and county board with alot of luck thrown in for only one of them to come through...I'm not sure they have the wherewithal to bring that together at this stage ...so Kilkenny will be taking the majority of the all Ireland's still..

Yeah but where was the precedent for KK winning 11 in 16 years? Utterly unprecedented in the history of hurling and unlikely to be repeated by any county. And where was the precedent for Offally winning 4 between '81 and '98?
What I said was "I think Tipp/Galway/Waterford/Clare/Limerick/Wexford will win a few between them". In other some of those counties will win AIs in the next decade. If I were a betting man (which I'm not) I'd put my € on that as opposed to KK winning say 8 of the next 10. I just think it's a more likely outcome over the next decade.

Stacksofwacks

10 years too far to see ahead but for the next 4- 5 years at least its hard to see Kilkenny regressing much from where they are now. Other teams will have to come up to their level. Their minors from the last couple of seasons look good aswell although their u-21's havent done much lately. The only positive for the other counties is that counties Like Clare, Limerick, Dublin, Galway, Waterford and wexford have been doing better underage so it gives a greater spread of teams who might beat Kilkenny than in previous years. I see Kilkenny winning maybe 3 of the next 5 and after that with Cody probably gone it will go back to a more level playing field again

jmayo

adrian522 wrote: »

Maybe if Mayo dropped the hurling team they'd get over the line in football (or maybe it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever)

I was actually thinking we should give up on the football and concentrate n hurling.:D
We already have one very good player - ask any of the big inter county players that played with him in college.
We just need to find another 15 odd.

Actually I reckon Cody could make a better job of managing the lads than the management they have and had.
After all he always learns from past mistakes and usually has the oppositions number.
Maybe he could the opposite to Dempsey.
Now that would be a challenge for him.

savannahkat wrote: »

From todays Examiner "This refreshed spirit propelled a rejigged panel to splendour on Croke Park grass sooner than most observers thought possible. Sure enough, there is plenty disquiet about the champions’ campaign. Online GAA discussion roiled, during the week, with a cocktail of begrudgery, disgust, envy, fear, resentment and unease. That whole cráic is brewing again."

I actually was always amazed how some kilkenny people could be such sore winners nevermind sore losers.

Mountainlad

Mehapoy wrote: »

For the people stating Waterford/limerick/galway/wexford will win all Irelands over the next few years where is the precedent? I mean Waterford haven't won an ai in 40 or 50 years, Limerick have won 1 ai in 70 or 80 years, it's 30 years since galway won one, wexfords is 20 years ago, clare and tipp granted have a bit of history of winning in the last 10 years which makes a massive difference, but it would take an exceptional efford between management, players and county board with alot of luck thrown in for only one of them to come through...I'm not sure they have the wherewithal to bring that together at this stage ...so Kilkenny will be taking the majority of the all Ireland's still..

I would guarantee at least two will win all irelands in the next 10 years. The doom and gloom since last Sunday is a bit much to be honest, lot of people need a kick up the hole.

blackcard

Mountainlad wrote: »

I would guarantee at least two will win all irelands in the next 10 years. The doom and gloom since last Sunday is a bit much to be honest, lot of people need a kick up the hole.

There is a whole pile of nonsense being written here. If you had posed this question in 2010 after Tipp's AI win was followed by their U21 victory, you might have said that they would win at least 3 of the next 5 AI. Similarly in 2013, you might have said Clare would win 3 in a row. Kk were very lucky to avoid relegation this year and their subs bench looked weaker this year than it has done for a long time. KK's position now is no more promising than Tipp's or Clare's were.

feargale

Deskjockey wrote: »

Is there any other reasonable option bar splitting KK in two if KK go and win abother 8 out of the next 10... Any suggestions?

Split it into four.

feargale

Deskjockey wrote: »

Is there any other reasonable option bar splitting KK in two if KK go and win abother 8 out of the next 10... Any suggestions?

West Indies won the first two cricket world cups in 1975 and 1979. At the time an argument was made in the English media to split WI into its constituent parts e.g. Jamaica, Trinidad, Barbados etc. for cricket world cup purposes. West Indies haven't won a world cup since, and have hardly come near winning. Imagine what would have happened if the carve up had materialised. Sic transit gloria mundi.
In the sixties some people thought Tipperary would win every All-Ireland for ten years. Tipp failed to win an All-Ireland between 1972 and 1988.
As the Chinese say, if you sit long enough by the river you will see the bodies of your adversaries floating by.
Nothing has served the GAA better than the county structure. Tamper with it at your peril,

GoldFour4

Don't know how anyone can honestly say they'd split KK into 2.

I'm a Tipp man and it would completely take away the joy of beating KK if all of a sudden we were playing North KK or South KK.

The rest of us have to get up to their standard, that's the only way to make it an even championship.

Btw I think it's a bit silly to be saying things like "KK will win a minimum of 8/10". They were awesome this year but who knows what the next year or two holds? Cody won't be around forever and trying to replace somebody like that is going to be toughest task the county board will ever have faced.

Topcat32

Deskjockey wrote: »

Is there any other reasonable option bar splitting KK in two if KK go and win abother 8 out of the next 10... Any suggestions?

Splitting in two is pretty ridicoulous. Inequality is built into GAA due to the county system and the provincial championship structure.
Why not just go to a champions league style structure with two groups of 6 with the top two in each group qualifying for the semi-final, each team gauranted 5 matches. Could push this further and have home and away matches in the groups, which would mean getting rid of the leagues. Run it between March and August.

Fort Stranger

While no doubt there will be some good hurlers coming through in Kilkenny there were six top hurlers gone last year, Michael Rice and Jackie could go this year and Mick Fennelly, Richie Power and Larks could go in next two years, you are starting to run out of marquee players then with Richie Hogan and TJ being the mainstay for the next four years hopefully.
Beyond that there are not too many up and coming players being talked about as future DJs or Henry's but who knows?
Also you would think that Cody won't be around after the next three years so I think we will be hard to beat for another three years but other counties should be coming through after that?

Xenophile

None in football.

Just know this "The Drive For Five Will Take Another Dive".

Eight of Tipp Minor Hurling panel that played against Galway will be on the Minor Football Panel to play Kerry next Sunday.

I fancy Tipp to win this just like a few years ago they are coming in under the radar having been beaten by Kerry in the Munster Final.

Great for fans to see dual athletes play in the local championships increases it interest at all levels.

By the way Cody is completely wrong about trying to have the championship finished in August. If anything he should be looking to have all the ladies championship finished earlier. It is probably fair to say that ladies bear the brunt of house keeping duties including getting children ready for school reopening etc.

Having said that I would like to hear the ladies view on this matter!

lim4ev

When you party for so long usually there's a shocking hangover afterwards kk have been on the razz hurlingwise for the last 10 yrs when will the hangover click in?when cody goes?Tipp dominated the 60s granted not in the way kk are doing now but who'd have thought when they won in 71 which was their 5th in ten yrs that they'd win only 4 in the next 45 yrs?

I'm not saying the same will happen kk i actually don't think so but you just don't know whats going to happen down the line.