Women harrased while running

HenryGreen

Not sure if this has been discussed before but read an article in the Guardian recently ( I can't post the link but it's titled 'Why should women run the gauntlet of harassment while out jogging) and was surprised, maybe naively, by how bad and severe it was.

Do women running here in Ireland have to put up with a similar amount of abuse?

Timberrrrrrrr

HenryGreen wrote: »

Not sure if this has been discussed before but read an article in the Guardian recently ( I can't post the link but it's titled 'Why should women run the gauntlet of harassment while out jogging) and was surprised, maybe naively, by how bad and severe it was.

Do women running here in Ireland have to put up with a similar amount of abuse?

Here ya go

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2015/aug/20/why-should-women-run-the-gauntlet-of-harassment-while-out-jogging

robinph

I don't have the time or inclination to go through and find the non-trolling posts from the previous thread so lets start again. This time without the trolling.

Lucena

Running and cycling gear generally clings to the body, showing the shape very well/too well, and that's the nature of the gear. Why should anyone (men or women) have to wear clothing that's less suitable because some people can't behave themselves?

Squatman

Lucena wrote: »

Running and cycling gear generally clings to the body, showing the shape very well/too well, and that's the nature of the gear. Why should anyone (men or women) have to wear clothing that's less suitable because some people can't behave themselves?

Answered it yourself :cool:

ThisRegard

Squatman wrote: »

Answered it yourself :cool:

Should I never leave the house because someone might assault or mug me sometime ?

It's something I have control over, so following your logic, that's how I should avoid this happening ?

seamus

It's an issue of culture - not that it's confined to any specific culture, but that in many cases men and women are taught that this behaviour is OK. Or at the very least is "harmless" and has no consequences. From young women being told to just walk on and ignore it, to the wink-and-nod culture between a group of lads who shout comments.

It all needs to be tackled. In the same way that someone being bullied should be encouraged to speak out to someone who can help, and people who see their peers engaging in -ist behaviour should be encouraged to correct that person and tell them what they're doing is not OK.

Teach people from a young age that this behaviour is not OK and is not without consequences, and just like racism, the older people who engage in it will find themselves biting their tongues when they realise people scowl at their remarks rather than smile.

Clearlier

HenryGreen wrote: »

Not sure if this has been discussed before but read an article in the Guardian recently ( I can't post the link but it's titled 'Why should women run the gauntlet of harassment while out jogging) and was surprised, maybe naively, by how bad and severe it was.

Do women running here in Ireland have to put up with a similar amount of abuse?

I'm not a woman but I've been surprised at how many comments I've been getting as the nights have closed it and I've started running in the dark again. It's usually teenage boys but the girls aren't immune to making inane comments either.

I do think that an important difference is that women feel more vulnerable than men. Rightly or wrongly I was more concerned about the foxes that were on my route last night than the idiots who said something as I ran by them. I was confident that the worst that the people would do would be to say something stupid but I thought the foxes a little less predictable (even though they always run away).

anvilfour

As I said previously I think this is something of a storm in a teacup. I suppose if you run long enough you're going to encounter some creep but I've never seen it happen while out running.

Then again I haven't been running for very long so would like to know if other people have encountered this and if so, for how long have they been running?

rovers_runner

Suppose you could compare it to a night on the town in Dublin if you look at it from a purely sexual/vain point of view given running gear is naturally going to show peoples true figure or body shape and more skin than you'd see normally, especially with our weather....

For every attractive person there is out running there will be many who aren't worth looking at, which is more of a cause for debate as to why these people aren't at least a healthy attractive looking weight to go with their matching gear/ipod/armband/sweatband/sun shades etc..

fepper

Well I would admire all those lovely women that cycle and run down our road but say hello nice day kinda thing to be polite but most of them have "lovely bottoms" alrite!!

anvilfour

rovers_runner wrote: »

Suppose you could compare it to a night on the town in Dublin if you look at it from a purely sexual/vain point of view given running gear if naturally going to show peoples true figure or body shape and more skin than you'd see normally, especially with our weather....

For every attractive person there is out running there will be many who aren't worth looking at, which is more of a cause for debate as to why these people aren't at least a healthy attractive looking weight to go with their matching gear/ipod/armband/sweatband/sun shades etc..

Hi RoversRunner,

A good question! I mentioned on the previous thread that my gf is beautiful but also quite overweight - she never saw this as an issue until recently as her Doctor told her that her liver was beginning to suffer under the strain. We have both only been running for a few months and she does wear sports bra and running shorts - at first she was afraid of being fat-shamed but actually there are loads of joggers and they don't give you a second glance.

There are other attractive girls who jog but I've not once seen any stranger speak to them at all, which makes me wonder is that just Feminazi propaganda c/o The Guardian (wouldn't be the first time) or something that's very widespread.

anvilfour

I don't condone cat-calling, I have never done it or would. I think women are more likely to respond to a genuine compliment but if my girlfriend was running alone and being harassed at the very least I would suggest finding somewhere different to run if it was upsetting her.

Dial Hard

anvilfour wrote:

There are other attractive girls who jog but I've not once seen any stranger speak to them at all, which makes me wonder is that just Feminazi propaganda c/o The Guardian (wouldn't be the first time) or something that's very widespread.

Seriously, can we please have this discussion without bringing "Feminazis" into it. They're not even peripherally related.

I don't think street harassment in Ireland is on anywhere near the same level as it is elsewhere, but it does happen. It's happened to me, has been since I was 12 or 13 and got my boobs, but generally not while exercising. Some women can let it go over their head (I do) but some people are thinner skinned and it does get to them.

Ironically, anecdotally at least, the comments while exercising seem far more likely to be directed at heavier women.

Squatman

ThisRegard wrote: »

Should I never leave the house because someone might assault or mug me sometime ?

It's something I have control over, so following your logic, that's how I should avoid this happening ?

No but consider this, If i though that there was a dangerous alleyway shortcut on my walk to work, i would avoid walking thru this. I wont take the notion that "i can walk where i like, because its illegal if someone stabs me", same logic, applied to a different situation. There are cemetries full of people who were "Right"

REXER

At this stage, my knees are a bit too creaky (bolloxed) for me to run but I do take regular extended walks along the canals etc.

I believe that women “leer” just as much as men but are just so much better at doing and concealing it! For one thing, their peripheral vision is hugely better than men’s whilst the men almost have tunnel vision so when they look “leer” it is glaringly obvious.
Women on the other hand can take in the same details while looking straight ahead and usually with no outward indication or reaction. If men look, they need to at least turn the eyes or the whole head and that’s the dead giveaway!

Women are just so much better at not getting caught.

Catcalling and lurid comments are however going too far!

http://knowdifferencebetweenoppositesex.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-women-are-wider-peripheral-vision.html

Why Women are wider peripheral vision and men have long distance tunnel vision
Not only women have more white fibrous coat and more variety of cone-shaped cells in the retina, but also they have wider peripheral vision as compared to the men vision.

Science says that women are wider peripheral vision and men are long distance tunnel vision.

Can you explain what is women's wide peripheral vision and men's long distance tunnel vision?

Science says that woman brain is programmed for wider peripheral vision. It means she can "receive an arc of at least 45 degree clear vision to each side of her head and above and below her nose. Many women's peripheral vision is up to almost 180 degree."*

And science says that men brain is programmed for long distance tunnel vision. It means he can "see clearly and accurately directly in front of him and over greater distance. almost like a pair of binoculars".* And also science says that the eyes of the men are larger as compared to the eyes of the women.

TRR_the_turd

REXER wrote: »

At this stage, my knees are a bit too creaky (bolloxed) for me to run but I do take regular extended walks along the canals etc.

I believe that women “leer” just as much as men but are just so much better at doing and concealing it! For one thing, their peripheral vision is hugely better than men’s whilst the men almost have tunnel vision so when they look “leer” it is glaringly obvious.
Women on the other hand can take in the same details while looking straight ahead and usually with no outward indication or reaction. If men look, they need to at least turn the eyes or the whole head and that’s the dead giveaway!

Women are just so much better at not getting caught.

Catcalling and lurid comments are however going too far!

http://knowdifferencebetweenoppositesex.blogspot.com/2010/12/why-women-are-wider-peripheral-vision.html

Why Women are wider peripheral vision and men have long distance tunnel vision
Not only women have more white fibrous coat and more variety of cone-shaped cells in the retina, but also they have wider peripheral vision as compared to the men vision.

Science says that women are wider peripheral vision and men are long distance tunnel vision.

Can you explain what is women's wide peripheral vision and men's long distance tunnel vision?

Science says that woman brain is programmed for wider peripheral vision. It means she can "receive an arc of at least 45 degree clear vision to each side of her head and above and below her nose. Many women's peripheral vision is up to almost 180 degree."*

And science says that men brain is programmed for long distance tunnel vision. It means he can "see clearly and accurately directly in front of him and over greater distance. almost like a pair of binoculars".* And also science says that the eyes of the men are larger as compared to the eyes of the women.

You really need to point to the underlying science that backs up these statements.

anvilfour

Dial Hard wrote: »

Seriously, can we please have this discussion without bringing "Feminazis" into it. They're not even peripherally related.

I don't think street harassment in Ireland is on anywhere near the same level as it is elsewhere, but it does happen. It's happened to me, has been since I was 12 or 13 and got my boobs, but generally not while exercising. Some women can let it go over their head (I do) but some people are thinner skinned and it does get to them.

Ironically, anecdotally at least, the comments while exercising seem far more likely to be directed at heavier women.

I am happy to keep the Feminazis out of it, they whinge far too loudly if you ask me!

As I mentioned above my gf was worried about being overweight and wearing running gear but 8 months in no one has said anything, is this just making a mountain out of a molehill as the Guardian is wont to do? :-D

tunguska

Clearlier wrote: »

I'm not a woman but I've been surprised at how many comments I've been getting as the nights have closed it and I've started running in the dark again. It's usually teenage boys but the girls aren't immune to making inane comments either.

I do think that an important difference is that women feel more vulnerable than men. Rightly or wrongly I was more concerned about the foxes that were on my route last night than the idiots who said something as I ran by them. I was confident that the worst that the people would do would be to say something stupid but I thought the foxes a little less predictable (even though they always run away).

This is a good point. I've seen this happen a lot too. Gangs of girls shouting stuff at men and women out running. I've had a glass bottle thrown at me, by some girls. Lots of other stuff aswell, by groups of girls and lads, verbal abuse, but throwing stones, golf balls and eggs aswell. I think for whatever reason, running seems to trigger something in people and they feel compelled to hurl abuse at you. Women get more pervy sexualised stuff said to them, whereas men just get plain old abuse.

Chemical Byrne

If you think its bad in Ireland, they you should even just try walking down the street somewhere in Italy. They are shamelessly sleazy over there catcalling, harassing and even propositioning women left right and centre. It's disgusting. ugh

anvilfour

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

If you think its bad in Ireland, they you should even just try walking down the street somewhere in Italy. They are shamelessly sleazy over there catcalling, harassing and even propositioning women left right and centre. It's disgusting. ugh

Mind you it does put the odd catcall while out jogging in Ireland into perspective (that dreaded "P" word) :-D

I was thinking about this after that video on so-called street harassment in New York where apparently even wishing a woman good morning was a declaration of a man's desire to molest her... God help any woman visiting France, Spain, Italy etc. ! :-D

Laois_Man

The Guardian article is UK based - I wonder is it as bad over here as it is in England?

Like previous posters have mentioned, I too am a man. I have had comments - sometimes by adult women. I have also had things thrown at me from passing cars - I often run close to the local Institute of Technology and it always happens near there - between the months of September and May funnily enough! Coincidentally, it gets a lot worse during Rag Week. While it would make me as mad as hell, it would never put me off going out running tonight - even if it was Rag Week.

If I was a woman though - I don't know if I'd be out too late at night running on fairly quiet roads.

It seems to happen a lot less than it used to and I link it to the fact that I look like a guy who's in much better shape to be running whereas I didn't always.

Also in the darker evenings, it always makes me feel a bit bad when running after dark and lone female pedestrians sometimes get a bit freaked out when they hear someone coming running behind them....trying to act calm, but they're obviously freaked.

munchkin_utd

well, I dont get the cult/ attraction of wearing lycra in the first place, especially when you arent an elite athlete

Women probably find it normal as they are wearing tights from the crib so are used to that sensation of square feet of material rubbing tightly against the skin, but for me I'd prefer my slightly baggy tracksuit any day.

TRR_the_turd

tunguska wrote: »

This is a good point. I've seen this happen a lot too. Gangs of girls shouting stuff at men and women out running. I've had a glass bottle thrown at me, by some girls. Lots of other stuff aswell, by groups of girls and lads, verbal abuse, but throwing stones, golf balls and eggs aswell. I think for whatever reason, running seems to trigger something in people and they feel compelled to hurl abuse at you. Women get more pervy sexualised stuff said to them, whereas men just get plain old abuse.

100% agree here and OT. But, if I head out to a football field and kick a ball around people will walk by and say nothing. If I run around the same field people feel entitled to say something to me. Use to bother me at times especially when I was younger but now I just lap it up and usually pull a mooner or wave my balls at them (I don't actually do the latter, maybe the former)

eviltwin

I prefer running at night. I get more comments during the day but I think it's more to do with my size than my gender. Being fat and running is just asking for trouble unfortunately. I feel more comfortable running in the dark when I don't meet as many people.

HelenAnne

As a complete aside, I'm just wondering if some posters have an alert set on their boards profile to let them know every time a thread with 'women' in the title pops up on boards. This thread, and its predecessor, seems to have attracted a lot of people who never usually post on the running forum. (Of course anyone is entitled to post anywhere and give their opinion; it's just an observation!)

Re the original query on the thread, does this happen in Ireland, I would say 'sometimes'. I've read articles from the US and UK and if they are true it seems to be much more prevalent there. I run quite a lot and have done for the last five years and I've been grabbed once and had comments I didn't like / that made me uncomfortable twice. As someone else said, different people have different comfort levels, so things that wouldn't bother me (people shouting things I find good natured, like telling me to hurry up or to catch someone up ahead or whatever) might bother someone else who might be more sensitive (possibly for good reason, perhaps due to an assault in their past).

I know some posters, some of them male, would like to argue that women are too thin-skinned, but all I'd say to that is don't judge until you've had someone you could conceivably feel physically threatened by touch you without your consent. It's only happened to me once while running, but when I was younger (like most women) I've been felt up, pinched, flashed at etc in places I should be completely free to go -- pubs, the GPO, shops, the sea front, for example -- and the way I felt when someone broke into my personal space when I was just minding my own business was out of proportion to how 'hurt' I was physically by it; I mean, someone pinching me or putting their hand up my skirt didn't physically injure me, but it gave me a fright and took me aback and made me feel someone was taking liberties with me. (If people don't want to listen to how the recipients of their attentions feel about it, so be it, but that's how I felt.)

Re what women wear running, I will just quote a sporting hero, Andrew from 'The Breakfast Club' -- 'I wear the required uniform'.

runawaybishop

HelenAnne wrote: »

As a complete aside, I'm just wondering if some posters have an alert set on their boards profile to let them know every time a thread with 'women' in the title pops up on boards. This thread, and its predecessor, seems to have attracted a lot of people who never usually post on the running forum. (Of course anyone is entitled to post anywhere and give their opinion; it's just an observation!)

Thread is at the top of the trending list, which is self fulfilling once it gets there. Its not a conspiracy by men :rolleyes:

seamus

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Women probably find it normal as they are wearing tights from the crib so are used to that sensation of square feet of material rubbing tightly against the skin, but for me I'd prefer my slightly baggy tracksuit any day.

Try running more than 5k in that baggy tracksuit or on a hot day, or a wet day, or a windy day. You won't be loving it then

Tighter running-specific clothes serve a purpose. They're not worn as a fashion statement, obviously.

rom

Why does this have to be a women/men thing when it happens to both. I have had a few things happen in this space from both men and women?

kit3

I think I've led a very sheltered running existence. I've never been hassled (might be more a reflection on my being an 'older' female). I would, however, be careful where I'd run. For example, there was a violent sexual assault in my area last week. I don't feel comfortable heading out in the dark for now - I don't like that but no point in being foolish either.

HelenAnne

rom wrote: »

Why does this have to be a women/men thing when it happens to both. I have had a few things happen in this space from both men and women?

It doesn't have to be -- a good few men have mentioned things being thrown at them etc. I suppose the OP was just reacting to a particular article that was about women?

REXER

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

You really need to point to the underlying science that backs up these statements.

Perhaps this link will help you, but beyond that GOOGLE is your friend where you will find many references to this interesting fact! :rolleyes:

The info in the link is interesting, especially with regards to children and traffic.

http://www.dulcimermedicalcenter.org/documents/mans_mind4_040505.pdf

anvilfour

HelenAnne wrote: »

As a complete aside, I'm just wondering if some posters have an alert set on their boards profile to let them know every time a thread with 'women' in the title pops up on boards. This thread, and its predecessor, seems to have attracted a lot of people who never usually post on the running forum. (Of course anyone is entitled to post anywhere and give their opinion; it's just an observation!)

Re the original query on the thread, does this happen in Ireland, I would say 'sometimes'. I've read articles from the US and UK and if they are true it seems to be much more prevalent there. I run quite a lot and have done for the last five years and I've been grabbed once and had comments I didn't like / that made me uncomfortable twice. As someone else said, different people have different comfort levels, so things that wouldn't bother me (people shouting things I find good natured, like telling me to hurry up or to catch someone up ahead or whatever) might bother someone else who might be more sensitive (possibly for good reason, perhaps due to an assault in their past).

I know some posters, some of them male, would like to argue that women are too thin-skinned, but all I'd say to that is don't judge until you've had someone you could conceivably feel physically threatened by touch you without your consent. It's only happened to me once while running, but when I was younger (like most women) I've been felt up, pinched, flashed at etc in places I should be completely free to go -- pubs, the GPO, shops, the sea front, for example -- and the way I felt when someone broke into my personal space when I was just minding my own business was out of proportion to how 'hurt' I was physically by it; I mean, someone pinching me or putting their hand up my skirt didn't physically injure me, but it gave me a fright and took me aback and made me feel someone was taking liberties with me. (If people don't want to listen to how the recipients of their attentions feel about it, so be it, but that's how I felt.)

Re what women wear running, I will just quote a sporting hero, Andrew from 'The Breakfast Club' -- 'I wear the required uniform'.

Hi HelenAnne,

As has been previously stated, a trending thread is a trending thread. Sometimes the people who disagree with you may be women, sometimes men - I think this is a storm in a teacup and doesn't happen very much in Ireland based on running around Cork with my gf for around 8 months and have never seen a stranger speak to a female runner but of course perhaps that's just true for things down South.

I don't pretend to know what it's like to be a woman, I am a big man (6ft4) and naturally wouldn't feel physically intimidated if I were catcalled or groped by girls (both of which have happened!)

However when I was at Uni, on two separate occasions I was approached by men who were stronger than me about the possibility of a relationship. I was a keen martial artist at the time and not very good, while these guys had been doing it for years, so I knew hand to hand I didn't stand a chance against them.

I am straight but made the mistake of mentioning to one of the men that I'd had homosexual experiences when at an all boys school. Somehow this guy took it as an invitation and after a few creepy texts and me blocking him on MSN Messenger, I had to say to his face, "Sorry not interested," I could see he was upset but I resolved to be firm and clear.

The second time the guy just got the wrong impression about me being friendly and as soon as I told him I had a gf he was fine about it.

As such, I don't really see what all the fuss is about if someone says they're interested, you can just say no. Of course if you're worried about someone physically assaulting you, it can be frightening but if I can face it down, I'm sure any girl can!

tunney

anvilfour wrote: »

I am happy to keep the Feminazis out of it, they whinge far too loudly if you ask me!

As I mentioned above my gf was worried about being overweight and wearing running gear but 8 months in no one has said anything, is this just making a mountain out of a molehill as the Guardian is wont to do? :-D

My wife runs. Recently she was told she had a nice arse by a group of lads and then slapped on the behind as she ran by.
So yes it happens. and thats assault too.

When I was very very lean I seemingly had a female silhouette from behind as a group of young lads late one night thought I was a woman and made a number of very lewd and descriptive comments. The look on their faces when i turned around and told them to go fvck themselves in a deep male voice.

it happens.

As a man and during daylight I been made requested by females to "give us a go of your bollocks love"

it happens.

TFBubendorfer

rom wrote: »

Why does this have to be a women/men thing when it happens to both. I have had a few things happen in this space from both men and women?

It's not the same, even if the cat calls are the same

I've had some cat calls as well, both from men and women. However, if a 16-year old girl shouts after me "hey baby" I do not feel threatened (merely a bit bewildered!). If I were a woman and some guy shouted the same I would most likely feel rather differently.

davedanon

anvilfour wrote: »

Hi HelenAnne,

As has been previously stated, a trending thread is a trending thread.

I think the point stands, though. A discussion on the athletics thread about gender politics, and suddenly all sorts of unfamiliar names appear.


Also, with respect, I don't think 8 months is a very long time to form an accurate opinion about the things that happen to people while out running. Also, has it not occurred to you that that the fact that you are out running with your girlfriend affects the behaviour of people you meet? In our club we might have a group of 12-15 out of an evening, some of whom will be women. They don't tend to get comments from people we pass, but I certainly wouldn't conclude from that that male heckling/harassment of female runners is a myth.

davedanon

Also, someone upthread was talking about the prevailing culture, and saying that this sort of male behaviour was to be expected, and that women are expected to laugh it off, just a bit of fun etc etc. This isn't the case. Not unless you're posting from 1987.

anvilfour

davedanon wrote: »

I think the point stands, though. A discussion on the athletics thread about gender politics, and suddenly all sorts of unfamiliar names appear.


Also, with respect, I don't think 8 months is a very long time to form an accurate opinion about the things that happen to people while out running. Also, has it not occurred to you that that the fact that you are out running with your girlfriend affects the behaviour of people you meet? In our club we might have a group of 12-15 out of an evening, some of whom will be women. They don't tend to get comments from people we pass, but I certainly wouldn't conclude from that that male heckling/harassment of female runners is a myth.

From my perspective I am also talking to new people on boards.ie. The nature of a discussion forum is that people may be interested in a particular topic e.g running or only one aspect of it. I certainly am more interested in politics than running sadly, hence being over 18 stone! :-D

"with respect" I don't agree running as a couple made much of a difference. I wasn't referring to comments made about my girlfriend but comments made to other runners who are female who we simply jog past. I cannot recall any stranger ever speaking to a female jogger despite the fact we must have seen hundreds. My girlfriend agrees.

As you say eight months isn't a very long time but I've yet to see any evidence that this is a regular occurrence for people who have been running longer except vapid tweets from the Femtard "Everyday Sexism" Channel.

Sunny Dayz

I'm either just lucky or ugly - I don't get harassed while running. I usually wear shorts or running leggings, it's much easier to move in them. Most of my running is done with a group. Some of our runs coincide with GAA training as we run around a track around the pitch and there is never any comments made. Even when I do my own runs - it is during the daylight, my husband knows where I'm going. In winter when I run when it's dark, I will only go where there are streetlights and my husband knows the exact route and there are other people around. I think maybe once or twice someone beeped the horn at me but my first thought was that must be someone who knows me and I wave back - small town mentality!

dintbo

When tickets for Garth Brooks went on sale I was whistled at and my legs were commented on by a bunch of middle aged women in an early morning cue - just sayin' is all.

On a more serious note, it's a crying shame that anyone anywhere can't run/walk/pogo-jump in public without having comments/abuse thrown at them.

Seannew1

I'm a male and I occasionally would get a smart comment from someone on the road. Usually it's from the bucks who would probably collapse after a couple of yards of running themselves so I just laugh it off.

I've had loads of comments. Thankfully most are the lighthearted kind which I enjoy, also the encouraging ones, then there's the smart arse comments (like the one slagging my running belt yesterday), but the problem are the ones that you'd really rather not be hearing when you're running alone. I got all of them while running yesterday. Tbh, I get them when not running too, again a lot of them lighthearted, but some which cross the line. I would definitely feel more vulnerable when I'm running. I'm not sure why that is to be honest. I run in the park when there are plenty of people about, I run on the roads when it's late. I've had "lads" actually run up alongside me and tell me what they'd like to do to my arse. I've been asked for my number. Horn beeped countless times. Men shouting out of windows. I do not have a fit runner's body in any way.

Men looking out of car windows or simply checking me out as I pass are not something I mind that at all - as long as it's not intimidating.

I've to come to accept it as part and parcel of being a woman to be honest, but going by some of the comments here it's not just women who experience it.

Sandwell

anvilfour wrote: »

Hi HelenAnne,

As has been previously stated, a trending thread is a trending thread. Sometimes the people who disagree with you may be women, sometimes men - I think this is a storm in a teacup and doesn't happen very much in Ireland based on running around Cork with my gf for around 8 months and have never seen a stranger speak to a female runner but of course perhaps that's just true for things down South.

I don't pretend to know what it's like to be a woman, I am a big man (6ft4) and naturally wouldn't feel physically intimidated if I were catcalled or groped by girls (both of which have happened!)

However when I was at Uni, on two separate occasions I was approached by men who were stronger than me about the possibility of a relationship. I was a keen martial artist at the time and not very good, while these guys had been doing it for years, so I knew hand to hand I didn't stand a chance against them.

I am straight but made the mistake of mentioning to one of the men that I'd had homosexual experiences when at an all boys school. Somehow this guy took it as an invitation and after a few creepy texts and me blocking him on MSN Messenger, I had to say to his face, "Sorry not interested," I could see he was upset but I resolved to be firm and clear.

The second time the guy just got the wrong impression about me being friendly and as soon as I told him I had a gf he was fine about it.

As such, I don't really see what all the fuss is about if someone says they're interested, you can just say no. Of course if you're worried about someone physically assaulting you, it can be frightening but if I can face it down, I'm sure any girl can!

Apart from being highly impausible imo, your anecdotes don't contribute very much to this topic. You've had people who are actually women confirming that this happens to them, others have confirmed it happens to their wives/girlfriends and yet you continue to express your scepticism. What exactly are you trying to achieve here?

TFBubendorfer

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It's not the same, even if the cat calls are the same

I've had some cat calls as well, both from men and women. However, if a 16-year old girl shouts after me "hey baby" I do not feel threatened (merely a bit bewildered!). If I were a woman and some guy shouted the same I would most likely feel rather differently.

That's really it.

I've had female friends groped, harassed, abused, intimidated, cornered, pleaded with, had bosses try it on etc. etc....you name it, they've faced it. Most shockingly they've told me of married men within our circle of friends who've tried it on, quite persistently or forcibly. . When I expressed shock they laughed and said it's part and parcel of being a woman, they were surprised that I was surprised. I've male friends who've been approached...but none of it carried the same undertone because of the natural physical difference between men and women.

Hoped that behaviour may be confirmed to pubs and parties, but if a slice of it manifests itself when women run along a road, I guess that doesn't surprise me.

rom

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It's not the same, even if the cat calls are the same

I've had some cat calls as well, both from men and women. However, if a 16-year old girl shouts after me "hey baby" I do not feel threatened (merely a bit bewildered!). If I were a woman and some guy shouted the same I would most likely feel rather differently.

How about going for a run and a guy screams at you "I love your legs and I want to **** you!".

sideswipe

Not really something I've ever had to deal with in 6 years of running. I would have thought most of these instances happened because of male/youth bravado. There is always one gob****e who thinks making a comment is cleaver. When we hung around places as kids there would have been a few 'nice tits' comments made by one dick from time to time trying to make himself look cool (and it would have been cringe to most of us then). Kids don't really think too much about the feeling of others.

What ever happened to good old-fashioned leering while trying not to get caught!!

MonsterCookie

There's clearly a sliding scale ranging from a discreet glance to downright assault. Many of the comments in that linked article from female runners referred to unwanted physical advances such as ass grabbing, slapping etc and others referred to lewd comments.

Then we have some <snip> on here saying its down to what the runners are wearing...feels more like After Hours trolling rather than a genuine discussion in a running forum

As a male runner I'm always conscious of how others might get a laugh at some of the gear I wear...my sister in law always has a good chuckle for example, but it's always light hearted and harmless.

It's frustrating but I think the only solution to a cultural problem like this is a long term one involving education and awareness.

uvox

MonsterCookie wrote: »

As a male runner I'm always conscious of how others might get a laugh at some of the gear I wear..

It's frustrating but I think the only solution to a cultural problem like this is a long term one involving education and awareness.

Same here - not that I care on the gear front (where's me Hokas?). However, I can understand how for women this issue is serious and can be intimidating. But, it's not to do with running per se (and we're not talking Fr Neil Horan). It is a question of lack of education and missing appreciation of diversity generally, and it's not something we can change easily. It is menacing and hurtful. And it ain't the brightest representation of an equal world we'd hope for. Assaults and verbal threats are addressable by law, but that's a big step to take when you're out there...

As for "required uniform"? That's fine to have that view, but for me: "Nah". If you want want to look like Mickey Rourke (now, not in 9 and a half weeks) that's OK. Stand by your running record.

Personally, I have been subjected to some severe homophobic abuse when running in Dublin - bizarrely, from young women in groups. On the one hand it's a form of emotional ugliness we can all do without, but on the other it's the final confirmation that I am finally dressing properly and making an impact. So, thank you.

The male source of ribaldry I come across is from those delightful characters who seem to be part of an on-going time and motion study of the over 50s standing in pub doors, smoking at 11 AM. That's OK too. They last saw their feet in 1986.

the_syco

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

You really need to point to the underlying science that backs up these statements.

Perhaps click the link that they provided? It references the books where the view came from.

IMO, the men who leer want to get caught leering, as it gives them some sort of boost.

Notwork Error

the_syco wrote: »

Perhaps click the link that they provided? It references the books where the view came from.

whoooosh:pac:

Hannibal Smith

Last week there were 3 teenagers sitting on one of those builder sheds? ...and they shouted something at me...couldnt hear them so dunno whether it was an insult or a compliment..im assuming the former. If any bloke laid a hand on me while i was out i would seriously lose my reason!!! On the darker evenings when the streets are quieter and im approaching a male runner, a lot of the time they give a wave or a nod, which I always think is fairly nice reassurance. Not that I'd be looking at them thinking theyre axe murderers or anything.

Its funny some one mentioned about safety while out though. I never have my phone with me, or any form of id for that matter, so if some one did come near me I'd have to fartlek like never before :pac: