Buy ready-built or try DIY?

ptyloch

Hi All,

I have been toying with the idea of getting a desktop to replace my 5 year and don't know which route to take.
My usage would be some video editing (light work, max 10 min vids with not many effects), recording gameplay off Xbox through a Hauppauge box, some office work.

I was thinking of a following setup:

I5 4th gen
8GB Ram
Dedicated graphics card with min of 2GB
Want the option of 2 monitors

I've found a Dell Inspiron 3000 @629 euro without a monitor on their website, next was an I7/16GB RAM @850.
I've also come across PCZONE.IE on adverts offering I5 Skylake, 8GB RAM and GTX 960 4GB for 1070 euro.

Is the upgrade to 6th gen I5 worth the extra money? Should I go the middle road of 4th gen I7 and more RAM?

How complicated is a self build these days? I have built a PC in the past but that was a Pentium 75 about 20 years ago, has it gotten more complicated since then?

Thanks for any help!

.G.

Build it yourself always. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck than buying an overpriced ready built system off somebody else. It's very easy to do and there's loads of people here willing to help if you get stuck. Also YouTube is your friend, hundreds of build videos on there.

Use the template on this forum if you want help with speccing a build based on what budget you have.

ptyloch

Well here we go:


1. What is your budget? [€1000 max]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Video editing/Video Capture/Internet]

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes 8.1 ]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [No]

5. Do you need a monitor? [Yes but have sights one 1, will need 2 eventually]

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [22' and up]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [Wireless Card/Card Reader/what else could I need?]

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [No]

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser]

9. When are you purchasing? [when my loan gets approved ;-)]

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? [Limerick]

I don't care about the look of the case, don't think I want water cooling as I know nothing about pros and cons of it.

Thanks!

Digital Solitude

i7 6700k €375
Z710 €120
1tb HDD €50
250gb SSD €90
Case €50
16gb DDR4 €120
300w PSU €30
Total €850

Windows is €20

ptyloch

Digital Solitude wrote: »

i7 6700k €375
Z710 €120
1tb HDD €50
250gb SSD €90
Case €50
16gb DDR4 €120
300w PSU €30
Total €850

Windows is €20

Excuse the ignorance but could you give me more detail of the Z710 motherboard? Googling it gave various results and I'm not sure which one it is.
Will this setup not require an additional graphics card? Are the onboard graphics powerful enough?

Digital Solitude

Z710 is the chipset you need, any Z710 will do you

And onboard graphics should be fine too yes

SterlingArcher

That budget will easily get you a video editing / gaming rig. No more need for xbox.

Steam all the way much cheaper games and new ones too.

ptyloch

SterlingArcher wrote: »

That budget will easily get you a video editing / gaming rig. No more need for xbox.

Steam all the way much cheaper games and new ones too.

It's not me playing, it's my sons, that's why the editing and recording requirement :-) Got to go with the times ;-)

SterlingArcher

This is an alternative build.

Estimated.

I7 4690 250 euro.

Mobo msi h97 80 ish

16 gigs crucial ram 80 ish

Psu be quiet 7 500 60

Case say 50

Ssd 250 gb 90

Hdd 1tb 50

660 ish. Can leave it at this. Save some money.

Or add a
Gpu 200 and monitor 140 ish. Around 1000

If you get a gtx card it has shadowplay for recording games.

SterlingArcher

Honestly if I was you, either build. Get the parts yourself and build it with them. Watch the YouTube videos. is a good learning experience.

It seems complicated at first glance . But when you get down to it, is not that big a deal. And can ask away on here plenty of people to help out.

But if you do feel its not your bag. post on your tread here,any spec pc you're considering buying. alot of sellers dell included can be misleading. adverts too.

Calibos

Digital Solitude wrote: »

i7 6700k €375
Z710 €120
1tb HDD €50
250gb SSD €90
Case €50
16gb DDR4 €120
300w PSU €30
Total €850

Windows is €20

I thought the €20 Windows Reddit route was off the table of late what with loads of peoples keys being invalidated?

ptyloch

Digital Solitude wrote: »

i7 6700k €375
Z710 €120
1tb HDD €50
250gb SSD €90
Case €50
16gb DDR4 €120
300w PSU €30
Total €850

Windows is €20

Ok, from mindfactory.de:

I7 6700k 369.06
AsRock Z170 Extreme4 137.06
16GB HyperX Fury DDR4-2133 DIMM 95.90
350 Watt Corsair VS series VS350 32.85
Total: 634,87




I already ordered a 120GB Sandisk SSD, from the dabs.com bargain alert.
I think I will leave the HDD off for the moment, I have 4 portable external drives ranging from 500GB to 2TB so happy to use them as storage for the moment.
Any recommendations or is this ok?
Do I need a heatsink or a CPU cooler?

Thanks Guys!

Xenoronin

ptyloch wrote: »

It's not me playing, it's my sons, that's why the editing and recording requirement :-) Got to go with the times ;-)

I think the guys have gone a little mad with hitting your 1k budget here. The temptation is to get the best for the budget but since you aren't using this yourself and it is your sons using it, you can downgrade a lot of this stuff while not displeasing the youths at all!

No need for an i7 6700k. Completely overkill.

i5 4460
8gb DDR3 1600mhz ram
H97 motherboard ATX or mATX
500W PSU (bit high, but leaves the graphics card option open)


It's a bunch of 10min lets plays guys! No need for a crazy editing rig!
No need for a cooler. Not overclocking.
Much cheaper if you plug all this into mindfactory or similar.

ptyloch

Xenoronin wrote: »

I think the guys have gone a little mad with hitting your 1k budget here. The temptation is to get the best for the budget but since you aren't using this yourself and it is your sons using it, you can downgrade a lot of this stuff while not displeasing the youths at all!

No need for an i7 6700k. Completely overkill.

i5 4460
8gb DDR3 1600mhz ram
H97 motherboard ATX or mATX
500W PSU (bit high, but leaves the graphics card option open)


It's a bunch of 10min lets plays guys! No need for a crazy editing rig!
No need for a cooler. Not overclocking.
Much cheaper if you plug all this into mindfactory or similar.

Thanks Xerononin!

Just to clarify I will be using it for editing but only home videos, nothing crazy :-)
I'm torn now, don't know if I should go with the Skylake architecure or stay with Haswell and upgrade in 2 years time when the next change is supposed to take place?
AARRRGGGHHH!!! Decisions, decisions, decisions...

Digital Solitude

Yeah maybe stick with Haswell Cheaper for minimal difference

ptyloch

Xenoronin wrote: »

I think the guys have gone a little mad with hitting your 1k budget here. The temptation is to get the best for the budget but since you aren't using this yourself and it is your sons using it, you can downgrade a lot of this stuff while not displeasing the youths at all!

No need for an i7 6700k. Completely overkill.

i5 4460
8gb DDR3 1600mhz ram
H97 motherboard ATX or mATX
500W PSU (bit high, but leaves the graphics card option open)


It's a bunch of 10min lets plays guys! No need for a crazy editing rig!
No need for a cooler. Not overclocking.
Much cheaper if you plug all this into mindfactory or similar.

Wow, this made a massive price difference! I went down to 360 euro with a 650W PSU! I think I will stick to this build and add a GPU. What's a good choice to go with those specs? GTX 950, GTX 750Ti?

Xenoronin

The i5 won't need upgrading for at least 5 years. Even skylake will be obsolete by then. The next major intel release is 2017 due to their slip up at moving to the 10nm node I think. If it works out, that might be a decent upgrade but I can't see anything really pushing things to the next level gaming or software wise. The i5 is strong. Hell, even the i3 4170 is strong. Look back and you can see people on first gen i5 and i7 still going strong for their use cases. That's crazy. The biggest innovations have been in storage in the last few years.

So have no fear about upgrades. By the time you need them, these components won't be upgradable anyway.

Xenoronin

Make sure you get a quality brand of PSU. Always the part you need to be careful with. Personally like Corsair. BeQuiet is also quite well liked around here. Get a GTX950. Will play pretty much everything at 1080p atm. Opens up that glorious steam library.

Digital Solitude

Sell the XBox and get a 950 or better for some serious gaming

I'm dying to bench my 950 :mad:

Eoinmc97

GTX 950 benches around the 30-40FPS mark on Ultra in games such as FarCry4, AC:Unity saw 30 FPS at Ultra, and GTA V saw 28 FPS on Ultra. Not bad, but expensive for the performance/price.
Haswell won't need to be updated until Intel or AMD somehow manage to increase the IPC and throughout of their CPU's by more than what Skylake does (as even Broadwell beats Skylake). Not to mention that software has to adapt and move on from the days of Single Core computing tasks and become more efficient in tasks.

I recommend a
Any good ATX case for €50 or so.
Core i5 4460: €175
A cheap AsRock or MSI motherboard: €55
8Gb of Crucial Ballistix RAM: €45
A nice and dandy 128GB for boot: €45
A 1TB Hitachi HDD for storage of games or movies and stuff: €45
A Corsair, BeQuiet, EVGA, CoolerMaster, SeaSonic 500w PSU: €60
Windows 8.1 key: €95
Total Cost: About €560 or so.

Down the line upgrades:
A GTX 960 /R9 380: €200

Xenoronin

I think the differences between the 950 and the 960 are pretty small tbh. Obviously if you can afford the 960 (about 30-50 euro more depending on what brand) then you go for it no question. The leap isn't massive if you are on a budget though. I don't think it will be worked hard simply due to the lack of interest in PC gaming from the sons at the moment. And turning down a few bells and whistles isn't the end of the world.

ptyloch

Does this look OK?


Intel Core i5 4460 4x 3.20GHz So.1150 BOX

€ 168,58*


650 Watt Corsair VS Series Non-Modular

€ 56,85*


ASRock H97 Pro4 Intel H97 So.1150 Dual Channel DDR3 ATX Retail

€ 82,75*

16GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR3-1600 DIMM CL9 Dual Kit

€ 75,74*

Total came to 383,92 plus 30 euro postage from mindfactory.de

I'm thinking of getting a Sharkoon BD28 case from Amazon.co.uk - 42,99 pound

Any suggestions? I want to get a GEFORCE 950 or 960 later on, that's why the 650 Watt PSU.

Digital Solitude

A 400w will run a 960/950 no bother.

Looks good though.

Still waiting on the new case, too lazy to sort the new drivers and then revert just to bench the new 950

ptyloch

Digital Solitude wrote: »

A 400w will run a 960/950 no bother.

Looks good though.

Still waiting on the new case, too lazy to sort the new drivers and then revert just to bench the new 950

In that case I might drop the PSU down to 450-500 Watt and save a few bob.

evo2000

ptyloch wrote: »

Hi All,

I have been toying with the idea of getting a desktop to replace my 5 year and don't know which route to take.
My usage would be some video editing (light work, max 10 min vids with not many effects), recording gameplay off Xbox through a Hauppauge box, some office work.

I was thinking of a following setup:

I5 4th gen
8GB Ram
Dedicated graphics card with min of 2GB
Want the option of 2 monitors

I've found a Dell Inspiron 3000 @629 euro without a monitor on their website, next was an I7/16GB RAM @850.
I've also come across PCZONE.IE on adverts offering I5 Skylake, 8GB RAM and GTX 960 4GB for 1070 euro.

Is the upgrade to 6th gen I5 worth the extra money? Should I go the middle road of 4th gen I7 and more RAM?

How complicated is a self build these days? I have built a PC in the past but that was a Pentium 75 about 20 years ago, has it gotten more complicated since then?

Thanks for any help!

Was in the same boat as you, was gonna buy a alienware pre built, but didnt got a few ideas of people on here and got one from hardwareverstaand where you ve the choice to either get all the parts and build it urself or they will charge u like 50 euros and put it all together for u

THe thinking behind build it urself is that its way cheaper and if ur ordering parts in they tend to have a better chance of survival when in there original packaging as opposed to being ina tower ie graphics cards,

Ive built another one since tho and i can say its very simple to put a computer together its like lego!

wotzgoingon

Xenoronin wrote: »

Look back and you can see people on first gen i5 and i7 still going strong for their use cases. That's crazy.

I'm one of them, I'm still rocking a first gen i7 system mind you I upgraded the processor to a xeon.

TerrorFirmer

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I'm one of them, I'm still rocking a first gen i7 system mind you I upgraded the processor to a xeon.

When I bench my 2500K at stock (3.3) versus my Haswell at the same speed, there's only a noticeable difference in frames running Sli at ultra settings at 1440P in say, Battlefield 4, and even then the difference is minimal (i.e, it's generally beyond numbers that impact on gameplay). Skylake to me is just a waste of time when it comes to gaming unless you're a new builder that's coming from S775 or 1st gen i5. If you have say an i5-750 that does need some overclocking to keep pace but the fact that it can do just that at about 3.5Ghz says a lot about how efficient Intel is. If you bought an i5-2400+ in 2011 you're still golden for the next few years even without overclocking. By the time 2nd gen is obsolete, Skylake will be old news as well. It's a funny thing that Intel did such a good job that each subsequent refresh is strictly a very minor improvement rather than necessity.

ptyloch

Lads which windows version would ye recommend? 7,8,8.1,10? I'm still using Vista and have no experience with any later versions of this OS...

Is getting a 8.1 key from adverts and upgrading to 10 a good idea or would ye stay with the 8.1?

TerrorFirmer

Buy a cheap €13 euro Win 7 N or Win8.1 N from Reddit and update to Win10 straight away. I've had a few problems lately with Reddit keys but if you upgrade to 10 right away, it should be fine as it assigns a new key to you upon upgrade.

ptyloch

OK, parts from mindfactory arrived yesterday, I'm getting the windows key just now, the case is on the way and I'll have it either tomorrow or Monday.

Dabs.com still hasn't delivered my ssd, I ordered another one from mindfactory though.

Got stung by parcel motel for 28 euro for the case delivery, very steep I think.

Next week is building time :-)

Thanks for your help Everyone!

ptyloch

Well I put it all together and it's working but the heatsink is very noisy, I didn't use any additional paste on the CPU, could that be the reason?
The other 2 fans in the case are very quiet and this one is like a chopper.

Is it usually that loud?

Xenoronin

The heatsink/fan that came with the CPU? Make sure the cpu fan wire isn't clipping the fan.

battlestar

ptyloch wrote: »

Well I put it all together and it's working but the heat-sink is very noisy, I didn't use any additional paste on the CPU, could that be the reason?
The other 2 fans in the case are very quiet and this one is like a chopper.
Is it usually that loud?

I didn't use any additional paste on the CPU

What if anything was on the CPU or heat-sink?

If it was one of those heat distribution pads that is ok but not great, most builders gently remove that and use a very thin smear of a good thermal paste.

but if your CPU and Heat-sink are metal to metal they need to both be perfectly flat so all parts of the CPU die get cooled.
Most heat-sinks Especially cheep stock ones are cast or extruded and have imperfections from forming (extruded) or uneven shrinking (cast)
Good aftermarket Heat-sinks are usually ground after forming to ensure flatness and today's CPU's are dead flat (unlike the P90's you last did a build with)

The force that the clips holding the cooler to the chip exert should be sufficient to lock them together so the noise is very unlikely to be rattling...so

On to the noisy fan
Your final build list does not mention an aftermarket fan so I surmise you have a stock cooler. Stock cooler fans do the job, but are in general noisy as they use a less expensive sleeve bearing and the smaller lighter Aluminum heat-sinks they are used on transmit a lot of tinny, high pitched noise. [They are designed to test-bench to just below the office noise regulations]

Now having experienced how easy modern PC's are to assemble
You can easily change that Cooler and or fan. A superior Bearing Fan just screws on and will cost very little or if you want to grab a better heat-sink at the same time because of the Hasswell type chip you selected has been popular for ages there is a glut of good fans out there and any number of them will be on sale somewhere at any moment in the day. Or a shout out to the boards here will get you good second hand cooler cheep left over from someones upgrade

You could even go for a Passive cooler, Hydro kit or peltier for a near silent PC but they will cost a bit

TerrorFirmer

Stock fans aren't very loud and he's described the sound as a helicopter so I think it's safe to assume either:

1) The cooler isn't installed properly

2) As already suggested, the fan header's cable is being clipped by the fan. This is quite possible as when new, the way the cable is positioned would cause that problem, you need to adjust it before installing.

pillphil

ptyloch wrote: »

OK, parts from mindfactory arrived yesterday, I'm getting the windows key just now, the case is on the way and I'll have it either tomorrow or Monday.

Dabs.com still hasn't delivered my ssd, I ordered another one from mindfactory though.

Got stung by parcel motel for 28 euro for the case delivery, very steep I think.

Next week is building time :-)

Thanks for your help Everyone!

WTF? Did you leave it there for four days? Or did it weigh 75 kilos? Or did you get them to deliver it?
Why were you using parcel motel anyway? Isn't delivery from Amazon free over a certain price?

ptyloch

pillphil wrote: »

WTF? Did you leave it there for four days? Or did it weigh 75 kilos? Or did you get them to deliver it?
Why were you using parcel motel anyway? Isn't delivery from Amazon free over a certain price?

No, through a combination of Amazon's packaging policy and my own stupidity. I didn't check the dimensions of the case I was buying and sent it to Parcel Motel, I knew that it would be too big to fit the locker and that I would have to pay extra, I thought it would be 7 euro as before with some larger orders from Amazon (steam mop, etc).

Well Amazon took the original box and put it into a bigger box and filled the space with air bags. The box was massive. Parcel motel have a special way of calculating the price by multiplying all the dimensions and dividing it by 3000. Then they charge depending on that result.

Well, it's done now and a lesson for the future learnt.

ptyloch

Thanks again Guys,

It was the fan cable that was making the noise, it's quite like a mouse now!

The missus asked me is the PC even on now?

Delighted!

pillphil

ptyloch wrote: »

No, through a combination of Amazon's packaging policy and my own stupidity. I didn't check the dimensions of the case I was buying and sent it to Parcel Motel, I knew that it would be too big to fit the locker and that I would have to pay extra, I thought it would be 7 euro as before with some larger orders from Amazon (steam mop, etc).

Well Amazon took the original box and put it into a bigger box and filled the space with air bags. The box was massive. Parcel motel have a special way of calculating the price by multiplying all the dimensions and dividing it by 3000. Then they charge depending on that result.

Well, it's done now and a lesson for the future learnt.

Ouch.
I also thought 7 euro under 35kg was their standard price. Good to know.

ptyloch

So the PC is running great, no hassle, boots in seconds.

Can anyone recommend a graphics card to go with? I'm playing (yes, it's a video editing build ;-) ) Fallout New Vegas and the on board graphics are struggling a bit.

The choice is overwhelming, what should I be looking at when choosing a graphics card? I watched some reviews of cards on youtube but it didn't make it any easier...

Just on a side note, I am looking for value out of a card, don't want to go spending 300 euro on a graphics card, 150 would be more realistic.

Thanks for all your help!

Digital Solitude

GTX950 is the best card for that money.

The 950 will preform better than an XBox, has Shadowplay for recording, cheap games etc as Sterling pointed out.

May be able to recuperate some of your losses (and then some) if the young lad will switch

TerrorFirmer

The 950 is more than 150, if you want to stick to budget the GTX750Ti is about €125 and is also an excellent budget card. If you're just playing the odd thing here and there it's a great option too.

Stupendousman

If one was to spend a bit more €200 - €300 for a card, is the GTX 960 4GB worth an extra €50 over the 2GB?
I am doing a bit of casual gaming only, playing Skyrim, Batman Arkham Asylum, Shadow of Mordor.
Also looking to get a bit of longevity from the card, do I have to go full R9 390?

Digital Solitude

I'd get the 280X over 4gb 960.

280X/960 are solid cards, should last a while if you're not a graphics snob.

Mightn't get a small enough 280X actually, but may be worth looking at

Stupendousman

Is this the one?

Asus AMD Radeon R9 280 DirectCU II Top Graphics Card (3GB, GDDR5, PCI Express 3.0)
Found it on Amazon
or
ATI Radeon R9 280X 3GB DX 11
Found this on CES

I don't understand about it being small enough?

Digital Solitude

The second one.

Never mind that, I thought you were the guy with the mitx built.

Stupendousman

Thanks for the info Mr. Solitude.

ptyloch

http://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-GeForce-Superclocked-Graphics-DisplayPort/dp/B00IDG3IDO/ref=sr_1_26?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1451047879&sr=1-26

Does this look good value for money wise?

Digital Solitude

There are cheaper ones I'd say, but EVGA are a great manufacturer

ptyloch

Digital Solitude wrote: »

There are cheaper ones I'd say, but EVGA are a great manufacturer

Couldn't find any cheaper ones on Amazon, this one is the cheapest 750 TI at the moment, 130 euro delivered, I think this will be fine for my build.

Thanks Digital!

ptyloch

Hi All,

Quick question, I just installed CPUID Hardware Monitor and found that the cores of my CPU (I5 4460) are all running around 95-100 degrees Celsius and that's only streaming some video and browsing the net. Is this something to worry about?

Some of the numbers from the monitor:

SYSTIN 30.0
CPUTIN 40.5
TMPIN3 99.0

Core1 TEMP 99
CORE2 TEMP 98
CORE3 96

I'm using the trial version of the program.
CPU FAN is running very close to max RPM

Hope I'm just reading it wrong.....

ptyloch

Pics of the removed CPU fan, do I need more thermal paste?

I do need a blast of air into the PC, I know that but it was all cool to touch when I opened it.
It didn't crash, granted it is a bit slower in the last few days but I put that down to broadband being used heavier at this time of the year.