Notice given to licensee who refused to do notice

Elto78

a week ago , I had to ask the licensee or lodger living in my apartment to leave for various reasons which I will not develop into the thread.

the talk started lovely until I mentioned I had a think and I wanted her to move out. she started to have a long face not happy
I then told her I was providing her with a month notice as per the written agreement.
she started to raise her voice and said she was going to move out next week therefore this week. refusing to do the notice and wanted to pay weekly. even though she had signed the license when moving it. I told her ok to accommodate as usual.

but I asked her then to move by 11th. therefore this Friday.

so far she had been more interested of having visitors at the flat than looking for a room.

I am a bit scared she will not move out on Friday and I am not willing now to extend her stay due to the way she spoke to me when refusing to do the month notice and other issues.

what can I do if she s not moving out? as I own the apartment and live in it

thank you

Taboola

Change the locks.

Victor

Note that if you told her to move out on Friday that she has all day Friday to do this.

When she goes out on Saturday morning, change the locks. Have someone there when she comes to collect her belongings.

In the meantime, you might secure any valuables that you have.

seamus

As she is a licensee and presumably has agreed to a move out date of the 11th, then you can just take her keys off her that day and wave goodbye. If she refuses to hand them over, you can just lock her out.

I would make pretty unsubtle noises about it such as asking her what her plans are on Friday and what time she's planning on moving out.

Elto78

The issue is that she has not started to look for a room yet and this does worry me a lot

and she borrowed her deposit last month to go on holidays so I am not even sure she has the deposit to move elsewhere at all
the note clearly wrote she had to be out on Friday 11th by 9PM
and she is not paying for Friday I just want her to leave
and I do not want to be in situation where I lock her out and there is a big drama either

Elto78

does she has to agree to move out?
as if I wait for her to give me a date I wait she will as she s not really reliable on anything
and at this stage I am more than happy to do her way and let her move out asap

foggy_lad

Taboola wrote: »

Change the locks.

Do this on Saturday morning and if you see her on Friday ask for the keys back but change the Barrel of lock anyway!

Elto78 wrote: »

The issue is that she has not started to look for a room yet and this does worry me a lot

and she borrowed her deposit last month to go on holidays so I am not even sure she has the deposit to move elsewhere at all
the note clearly wrote she had to be out on Friday 11th by 9PM
and she is not paying for Friday I just want her to leave
and I do not want to be in situation where I lock her out and there is a big drama either

You are not her parent/guardian and not responsible for her situation or her future housing requirements.

As for the deposit, You should inspect the room every day(while she is out!) until Friday and if it looks like there is damage or that she is trashing it then change the locks immediately and do not let her inside the front door again! pass her belongings out through the window or out at the door.

Elto78

well she has to be out Friday by 9PM and I did not charge her for Friday as I want her out
can you legally do that change to lock and hand her stuff back when she is back? knowing I am the owner occupier

seamus

Elto78 wrote: »

well she has to be out Friday by 9PM and I did not charge her for Friday as I want her out
can you legally do that change to lock and hand her stuff back when she is back? knowing I am the owner occupier

Yes. Licensees can be forcibly evicted and they have no comeback or right to enter the property.

There may be a big drama, sometimes that's unavoidable. But you can't get into trouble provided that you don't damage or lose her property.

athtrasna

Never give a licensee an agreement in writing, she now has that to fall back on, the written agreement states one month notice. Even the new letter may not over ride this, you're on dodgy ground imo.

foggy_lad

athtrasna wrote: »

Never give a licensee an agreement in writing, she now has that to fall back on, the written agreement states one month notice. Even the new letter may not over ride this, you're on dodgy ground imo.

She herself said she was moving out this week so the new letter was given to her giving her till Friday to leave. She is not entitled to stay longer.

Elto78

well I presume she said it she be out this week of anger or as she thought she would find something easily at same deal that she has at my place

I do not think she was expecting me to ask her to leave

but I did write a note just in case and mentioned in it she was refusing the month notice therefore I was complying with her request
just in case
I d rather have it all in writing when I do not knwoall the rights

Lux23

Next time you see her, just say are you all set for the move at the weekend? If she kicks up a fuss, then you know you will be getting the locksmith around this weekend.

Meauldsegosha

Elto78 wrote: »

and she borrowed her deposit last month to go on holidays so I am not even sure she has the deposit to move elsewhere at all

Did you give her back her deposit so she could go on holidays?

Elto78

I actually did as she pestered me all day by message when I was at work

I went back home that day telling her it was the last time I lent her the deposit back as she s asked for that every month since first month she was in the door
always something with her

I understand you have an issue once but not every month and not for holidays. I kept 90 euro of it just to cover bills in case anything goes wrong
but yeah as an idiot every month I gave her back part of her deposit
but she was told it was the last time
so basically I have 90 euro deposit in my hands instead of the month deposit
hard to say no when someone pesters you non stop

foggy_lad

Not so much soft as a nice person who is being taken for a mug by this little <snip>

Elto78

well there are a few reasons why I asked her to leave
and at this stage I just want her out really really out
as i give the nail she takes the arm

salamanca22

Elto78 wrote: »

well there are a few reasons why I asked her to leave
and at this stage I just want her out really really out
as i give the nail she takes the arm

Come Saturday just change out the locks. If you feel that there might be drama and you will feel unsafe make sure to have friends around on Saturday.

Elto78

athtrasna wrote: »

Never give a licensee an agreement in writing, she now has that to fall back on, the written agreement states one month notice. Even the new letter may not over ride this, you're on dodgy ground imo.

i did give her the month but she refused it firmly and got really strong on that point. and started to pay weekly.sge refused to give the month rent which was due on 1st she paid from last monday to yesterday so hasnt paid for this week.it s her terms not mine my licence says full month rent to pay on 1st. which she hasnt done

4ensic15

Elto78 wrote: »

I actually did as she pestered me all day by message when I was at work

I went back home that day telling her it was the last time I lent her the deposit back as she s asked for that every month since first month she was in the door
always something with her

I understand you have an issue once but not every month and not for holidays. I kept 90 euro of it just to cover bills in case anything goes wrong
but yeah as an idiot every month I gave her back part of her deposit
but she was told it was the last time
so basically I have 90 euro deposit in my hands instead of the month deposit
hard to say no when someone pesters you non stop
my own fault for being soft

Why not tell the person to stop pestering you?

Throw her out and forget about it, I wouldn't think twice about it.

the_syco

She has no reason to leave, and no deposit to lose. Wait until she leaves, and have the locks changed. Threatening this will just ensure she either stays, or that she leaves with something of value.

Elto78

4ensic15 wrote: »

Why not tell the person to stop pestering you?

with some people that doesnt work. and asking for deposit back every month for this or that is bit much un fairness cheeky

spaceHopper

Elto78 wrote: »

with some people that doesnt work. and asking for deposit back every month for this or that is bit much un fairness cheeky

Text back saying no and now I have to turn off my mobile to go into a meeting or to get some work done tell the reception not to put her through, they can say you are in a meeting.

At this stage get some boxes and a role of heavy black bags pack up the lot tell here to go.

Elto78

the_syco wrote: »

She has no reason to leave, and no deposit to lose. Wait until she leaves, and have the locks changed. Threatening this will just ensure she either stays, or that she leaves with something of value.

I have not threatened of anything
just requested she d leave
I am trying to have her leave in the nicest manner as I can
not to have stress myself

Cuddlesworth

Elto78 wrote: »

I have not threatened of anything
just requested she d leave
I am trying to have her leave in the nicest manner as I can
not to have stress myself

Seen this a thousand times. The situation is not going to get better by hoping it will go away. You have asked her to leave. She has clearly refused and intends to stay. She has no rights. Turf her out.

Elto78

I did request her to leave gave her noticed
she refused the notice
so I did set up a deadline for her to leave as she did not want to pay for the month
we will see Friday.
until then I keep my eyes opened. and will act Friday if she does not move by her dead line.
at the moment she is avoiding me pretending to sleep when I come back home at 9 PM but until Friday I am avoiding unnecessary arguments
but spare lock is ready to go on door anyway

athtrasna

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Seen this a thousand times. The situation is not going to get better by hoping it will go away. You have asked her to leave. She has clearly refused and intends to stay. She has no rights. Turf her out.

She may have rights. The written licence gives her rights she's not entitled to. The OP has issued a letter based on a conversation but the signed licence would still hold if the licensee were to seek legal advice. The OP needs to tread carefully here.

Elto78

well licence also stipulates Breaching the licence will result in the immediate termination of the contract.
and she did not comply to it on a few things

Old Perry

athtrasna wrote: »

She may have rights. The written licence gives her rights she's not entitled to. The OP has issued a letter based on a conversation but the signed licence would still hold if the licensee were to seek legal advice. The OP needs to tread carefully here.

Just an innocent question. if both the 'license' and 'letter' were simply drawn up by the the OP then do both not hold the same weight in this context ( the rights of licensee)?

im assuming the later letter is signed by both parties.

good luck with it op. im sure all will turn out grand, looks like youve done all ya can and its time to play the waiting game

Elto78

well the licence says a month notice for OP and for Licensee if you wish to terminate contract and month rent to be paid on a certain date
but the issue is that when I gave her the notice of one month she refused it
that is why I wrote the letter with dates and facts as she is the one refusing to pay the rent for the month and do the notice
even though I m the one asking her to leave

so in case she says anything it is written in my note that she is the one who refuses to pay for the month and do the month notice
and that I am complying with her wishes
just in case she complains now she did not have full month notice

Black_Knight

Is she not breaking any agreement by only paying weekly? Even so, assuming she has a move out date of Friday, and rent only paid up to Friday (or Thursday as you mentioned she's not paying for Friday). Once that rental payment period is over she's breaking the agreement once again by not paying for Friday night/Saturday.
Lots of stuff stacked in your favour OP, but you need to grow a pair, bite the bullet and man up about this. You're being taken for a ride, but you provided the saddle. If she's not out by Friday, change the locks, black bag her stuff and give her a couple of days to collect before you head to the dump - pity you've only €90 to cover this.

Elto78

well she is indeed
I gave her notice of 1 month when I asked her to move out and license agreement clearly state monthly payment to be paid on 1st of each month
therefore I respected the license agreement
but she was totally refusing it and did not provide the monthly rent or nor wants to comply with the month notice. and she wanted to pay weekly
she wanted out so she is out and I gladly provided her with out this week.
which now causes her an issue as she still has not found any accommodation and is avoiding me.
as I had enough to back up all the time I told her ok then you leave on 11th
at this stage I have enough to accommodate someone who clearly does not care and always wants It her way
if she finds an accommodation and moves out then it is me in the rush to find a new lodger but that she does not care
why would I always accommodate her who always wants her way and I have to always back down
she wanted out this week she has out this week and I will not change my mind

I feel bad as she did not find a room yet
but then they are plenty rooms around maybe she does not want to pay the amount asked by other landlords or does not like the rooms I don't know. and not my problem
she did not want to serve the notice or pay the monthly rent so definitely out
all cannot be her way all the time

ComfortKid

Elto78 wrote:

I feel bad as she did not find a room yet but then they are plenty rooms around maybe she does not want to pay the amount asked by other landlords or does not like the rooms I don't know. and not my problem she did not want to serve the notice or pay the monthly rent so definitely out all cannot be her way all the time

What if she offers to pay another weeks rent on Friday to allow her more time to find a new room, will you accept?

Elto78

No
I asked her to leave for a few reasons
I was nice and once again she barked at my face and her tone was aggressive that day
so no I would not
she probably could learn from it
when you are aggressive with people to have your way as they'd back down and you get what you want
she got it and not if it does not suit her too bad
she will think twice next time before talking to people that way
why would I be nice to someone who barks at my face???

AndyBoBandy

Elto78 wrote: »

why would I be nice to someone who barks at my face???

It seems you have already been nice to her giving her her deposit back!

heylin

athtrasna wrote: »

Never give a licensee an agreement in writing, she now has that to fall back on, the written agreement states one month notice. Even the new letter may not over ride this, you're on dodgy ground imo.

Doesn't matter. A written agreement is not a contract / lease. A licensee is still a licensee. They have no rights whatsoever and can be asked to leave at any time without a reason. Once the owner withdraws the invitation for the licensee to stay in their property, then they a effectively trespassing.

Elto78 is well within rights to simply change the barrell on the door and return her possessions to her.

Hope it all works out.

the_syco

Elto78 wrote: »

why would I be nice to someone who barks at my face???

From the below, she's probably assuming that she'll get her way.

Elto78 wrote: »

I went back home that day telling her it was the last time I lent her the deposit back as she s asked for that every month since first month she was in the door
always something with her

the_syco

heylin wrote: »

A written agreement is not a contract

You think a contract is not a written agreement signed by both parties?

heylin

the_syco wrote: »

You think a contract is not a written agreement signed by both parties?

You have taken what I said out of context.
Contract might not have been the correct word. It is certainly not a lease and the licensee does not become a tenant just because a written agreement was put in place.

Elto78

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

It seems you have already been nice to her giving her her deposit back!

and it was not the first time I accommodated her with her request for loan on her deposit which btw she did not have on moving day and top it up by instalments. took me 4 months to have it and when I got it she asked for full amount for holidays
so I think I have been nice and patient enough and not only on this point
lock is changed anyway as I do not know whom she brought in day time in the flat for business???? and what is business????

Elto78

heylin wrote: »

You have taken what I said out of context.
Contract might not have been the correct word. It is certainly not a lease and the licensee does not become a tenant just because a written agreement was put in place.

licence agreement is the correct legal term

Black_Knight

Be strong OP. Sooner you're rid of her the better. She dug her own grave saying she would only pay by the week (and subsequently agreeing to leave by the 11th). Its not of your concern if she cannot find a new place. Live by the sword, die by the sword etc etc.


PS: Dont disappoint us on Friday/Saturday :pac:

spaceHopper

Elto78 wrote: »

lock is changed anyway as I do not know whom she brought in day time in the flat for business???? and what is business????

Are you saying she is a hooker?

the_syco

heylin wrote: »

You have taken what I said out of context.
Contract might not have been the correct word. It is certainly not a lease and the licensee does not become a tenant just because a written agreement was put in place.

Call it what you will, but giving a licensee a piece of paper with rules gives her nothing, but if the OP and licensee both signed it, it may give them more rights than what they would have had without it. Regarding the months notice, the licensee could say that they never got it, and the OP may find it hard to prove that they did.

Either way, next time the OP gives them a list of rules. Break them, and get rid of them.

Elto78

spaceHopper wrote: »

Are you saying she is a hooker?

No
all i know she implied i had to leave the flat one day when i was off on a friday as she had a visitor and it was for business
phone rang and she gave the address of the flat. she did not seem to know the person so if she does not know the person i d rather she does not bring people she does not know in as i have my things in there too
and as i work day time i would not know how many times she brought strangers to the flat
now could be she borrowed money or anything else i dont know but no she s defo not what you said

Elto78

the_syco wrote: »

Call it what you will, but giving a licensee a piece of paper with rules gives her nothing, but if the OP and licensee both signed it, it may give them more rights than what they would have had without it. Regarding the months notice, the licensee could say that they never got it, and the OP may find it hard to prove that they did.

Either way, next time the OP gives them a list of rules. Break them, and get rid of them.

i gave her a termination of licence which states she refused to do the notice and pay for the month which is a breach of licence
in my licence i stated any breach will result in immediate leave
so i am covered.

Black_Knight

Elto78 wrote: »

i gave her a termination of licence which states she refused to do the notice and pay for the month which is a breach of licence
in my licence i stated any breach will result in immediate leave
so i am covered in glory.

You stopped short there.

ComfortKid

Any signs of her packing her bags yet I wonder.

Elto78

ComfortKid wrote: »

Any signs of her packing her bags yet I wonder.

Well some stuff are gone from the kitchen
but then I have not heard any packing when I was home or seen her move out any bags
too busy having a visitor yesterday and then watching movies on internet
I got a new lock last night anyway

ComfortKid

Elto78 wrote:

Well some stuff are gone from the kitchen but then I have not heard any packing when I was home or seen her move out any bags too busy having a visitor yesterday and then watching movies on internet I got a new lock last night anyway

Your Internet? I'd change codes on that if I is. Best of luck, I hope it goes smoothly.