Is it rude not to stand for another country's national anthem?

DA7800

I was at this international event once in the U.S. with a multitude of nationalities attending. At the main presentation there was a recognition of representatives of countries in attendance (of which Ireland was one) and after this the crowd (rough estimate is 20,000 people) were asked to stand for the american national anthem played by a U.S. army band.

Now usually I would, but where I was sitting was far away from the main crowd - with three of my colleagues and only those three, literally nobody around for a good few rows. One of those people has dual citizenship (Irish and U.S.). He remained firmly seated, and when I sort of hovered above my seat, beginning to stand, he told me to sit, saying it was "not our country, no need to stand". I decided to follow his advice. When we went to exit shortly after, some american muttered "assholes" in our general direction, which I assume stemmed from the fact that we didn't stand.

So, if the nice folks of AH would kindly oblige: Was it rude and/or ignorant? Or acceptable?

Sheep Lover

Not your anthem, why should you. I wouldn't get my jocks in a twist if some Spanish dude didn't stand for ours.

I wouldn't even stand for that abomination of an "Irelands Call"

darkpagandeath

Yes, The polite thing to do is stand you don't have to sing.

Witchie

Was at the Orlando City SC game vs West Brom. I stood for the American one coz was a visitor there and they have been good to the Irish but sat down for the British anthem coz fook them.

justchecked

For the US you're better off just standing, for the sake of dodging the inevitable and having a peaceful, sane and non ridiculous night without billy-bob jumping at his opportunity to tell you this is murka.

Dont worry Ireland will understand.

Anywhere else you're probably alright to just stay seated.

some things just aren't worth the effort.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It is protocol to stand for, and respect, the national anthem of any country. I would consider not doing so to be rude in the extreme. But, I'm a dinosaur nowadays when it comes to manners.

dudara

It's good etiquette and manners to stand and maintain silence another country's anthem. I would personally do so.

Turtyturd

Would stand for the anthem but have been at several events where it has been requested to stand and show appreciation for the US armed forces.

F*ck that.

Sunnyisland

I would and have stood for my many national anthems, no big deal really.

Birneybau

Ask James McClean.

osarusan

If people in general are standing, then I'd just go ahead. Stand up, shut up, get it over with. Much like our own anthem.

I was in a pub in Maynooth once watching Ireland versus England in rugby. Three English fans sitting at the table in front of me. After the Irish anthem, the staff turned the sound down so the English anthem couldn't be heard - embarrassing behaviour.

MouseTail

Sitting through a national anthem is a form of protest, and quite a politically charged one.

timthumbni

osarusan wrote: »

If people in general are standing, then I'd just go ahead. Stand up, shut up, get it over with. Much like our own anthem.

I was in a pub in Maynooth once watching Ireland versus England in rugby. Three English fans sitting at the table in front of me. After the Irish anthem, the staff turned the sound down so the English anthem couldn't be heard - embarrassing behaviour.

That is stupid indeed. That smacks of deep insecurity and incredibly bad manners on the part of the staff.

The Randy Riverbeast

I would stand. Dont really care about national anthems but it's easier to go along with it. Especially in the US where they turned patriotism into a type of religion.

Fukuyama

I stood at a baseball game in NY. I didn't sing or place my hand on my heart, obviously. But I'm a guest in the country and I had no reason to be rude, which is how I would interpret remaining seated when EVERYONE else is standing. It's a ceremony of sorts and showing some kind of social awareness is the least a guest can do.

Flags, anthems, symbols carry weight and meaning to a lot of people. It's illogical and silly, but they do.

I'm not religious, but I would address a priest as "Father" if I was in a church for some reason. Similarly, I would address the British Queen as Your Majesty if I ever met her or the US president as Mr. President. They know and I know I'm not submitting to them. It's just basic respect and manners.

gormdubhgorm

I would stand for most anthems happily but I always feel uncomfortable standing for the British/English one.

PirateShampoo

The bloody grief I used to get for not standing for the Irish national anthem, when pubs thought it was a good idea to play at kicking out time. I used to cringe at it.

1st, I personally feel I'm not a Twat.

2nd, I'm Welsh.

3rd, I'm not a Twat...

gormdubhgorm

PirateShampoo wrote: »

The bloody grief I used to get for not standing for the Irish national anthem, when pubs thought it was a good idea to play at kicking out time. I used to cringe at it.

1st, I personally feel I'm not a Twat.

2nd, I'm Welsh.

3rd, I'm not a Twat...

You should have done the decent thing and sang the Irish anthem in Welsh

efb

Standing for anthems I do. Not when I'm watching on tv- that's a bit OTT

PandaPoo

I was in a pub recently, they played the national anthem at the end of the night. I didn't stand, I'm 8 months pregnant and need a crutch to walk.

Some drunk woman came over and started grabbing my arm to get me to stand, and shouting at me when I said no. Mortified.

I couldn't give a crap if you stand or not, it's none of my business. Just wish the mad oul one thought the same.

efb

My fave was in MGM standing for The Star Spangled Banner and GSTQ.Dome of the Engish fans were less than courteous for TSSB - I was thinking to myself- big mistake!

chrissb8

I think you should stand at least in respect of the opponent is all. No need to sing or anything but it's just nice to show that you'll stand to recognize an opponent country. That said I would not stand for the English one at all. People can tell me to get over it and move on but hey let's just not get into that.

efb

I didn't know they still played the anthems in pubs at closing time - weird

greenflash

I usually try to head off for a piss or a smoke when it comes to national anthems. Bollocks to the lot of them.

endacl

PirateShampoo wrote: »

The bloody grief I used to get for not standing for the Irish national anthem, when pubs thought it was a good idea to play at kicking out time. I used to cringe at it.

1st, I personally feel I'm not a Twat.

2nd, I'm Welsh.

3rd, I'm not a Twat...

I've had some experience of '3'. I used to go out with a girl from drogheda and have also garnered my share of dirty looks for not chucking change in the bucket for 'the prisoners families' in some of the pubs there.

timthumbni

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would stand for most anthems happily but I always feel uncomfortable standing for the British/English one.

Why, out of interest? Unless you are apparently the most oppressed person ever (aka James mclean) then it really shouldn't make a difference.

Coming from a unionist background in Northern Ireland I have stood for the Irish anthem a few times and to be honest it didn't bother me a jot. I obviously did not sing the words but respecting another country's anthem is basically just good manners.

newacc2015

Depends. If its a baseball game I see no harm. But if its like Wet n Wild, with the whole "our troops fighting for freedom" BS, then cue to the national Anthem with videos of the troops, personally I think its too much.

When I was in Wet n Wild, none of the Europeans in the stands acknowledged the national anthem. WTF does our troops fighting for freedom ( and killing plenty of innocent in the way) and the national Anthem have to do with a whale show?

endacl

timthumbni wrote: »

Why, out of interest? Unless you are apparently the most oppressed person ever (aka James mclean) then it really shouldn't make a difference.

Coming from a unionist background in Northern Ireland I have stood for the Irish anthem a few times and to be honest it didn't bother me a jot. I obviously did not sing the words but respecting another country's anthem is basically just good manners.

In fairness, most of us don't sing it either...

:pac:

old_aussie

Sheep Lover wrote: »

I wouldn't even stand for that abomination of an "Irelands Call"

Nothing like a bit of national pride is there.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

Unless you are apparently the most oppressed person ever (aka James mclean) then it really shouldn't make a difference.

You just couldn't stop yourself from trying to get a dig in at James McClean, could you? If the Irish state had massacred members of your community, covered it up, and added insult to murder by calling the victims terrorists then you too might have problem with the Irish anthem.

NachoBusiness

There was an NBA player in the states in the 90s who refused to stand for the American National anthem before games but eventually he agreed to keep his eyes closed and recite an Islamic prayer to himself instead.

As for ordinary folk, it would depend on the occasion.

Representing your country in some capacity and refusing to stand for your opponant's anthem is different than not standing when some DJ plays it at end of DJ set when you're on holiday in Ibiza.

Samaris

I'd call it rude not to, yeah. Its a custom and a custom that does no-one any harm. At this point, its just manners, or, if you want to look at football or the like as our modern day and more peaceable version of war (hence the anthems and the 'opponants' business), it's honourable. All not standing shows is either ignorance of the custom or a specific gesture of disrespect, which is rather childish.

Mind you, when I lived with a friend in England, housecleaning was often accompanied by music and singing, and we quite often threw on Ambhrann na bhFiann and Rule Britannia* and we'd both quite happily warble through both of them (and the Welsh, Scottish and Swedish ones and torture the Bulgarian one because neither of us knew what the hell they were saying)


And do you know it, but neither of us lost our various citizenships , nor did the sky fall in.

*God Save The Queen just isn't as fun to sing. Say what you like about Rule Britannia, but it's got a chorus you can really get your lungs into.

Exclamation Marc

I will literally follow the masses. I have no problem with other national anthems, I just wouldn't want to draw attention to myself.

I don't wanna be that one guy sitting down when everyone else is standing and I don't wanna be that one guy standing when everyone else is sitting.

timthumbni

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You just couldn't stop yourself from trying to get a dig in at James McClean, could you? If the Irish state had massacred members of your community, covered it up, and added insult to murder by calling the victims terrorists then you too might have problem with the Irish anthem.

Oh dear Tom. As I said Young James (aged 26) born 1989, appears to be the most oppressed person ever. If everyone up here in Northern Ireland took the same attitude no one would be speaking to anyone.

His attitude is childish but in fairness he doesn't appear to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. (I wasn't the first btw to raise his name which is not surprising considering his recent tomfoolery)

Anyway getting back on topic as I know young master James has his own thread somewhere. Would you stand for the British national anthem or sit and make faces as some sort of jibe? As I've said I stood for the Irish anthem and didn't feel it diminished me at all. Would it make you feel less "Irish" if you ever stood for the UK anthem? If so I would question just how "secure" you were in your own "irishness"

The UK and the Republic of Ireland are not at war Tom. That needs to be remembered.

Lord Riverside

I find it hardest of all to stand for the Irish one, all I can think of is the colossal number of scumbags that have fleeced us time and time again from delvalera to haughey, to Bertie to noonan, gilmore to Kenny, from Adams to mcguiness. The so called Irish anthem and flag makes my skin crawl. The whole thing is one giant con job / joke as far as I'm concerned.

efb

GSTQ is an awful dirge - My least favourite of the 6 Nation's anthems. France's is cool.

timthumbni

efb wrote: »

GSTQ is an awful dirge - My least favourite of the 6 Nation's anthems. France is cool.

GSTQ isn't that good a tune I know. However that applies to probably 99% of the countries of the world. I agree that the French one is pretty good though. Especially in Escape to Victory.

Ken.

As long as I live I'll never forget a stag trip to Prague about 8-9 years ago. In a nightclub and all 10 of us giving it loads on the dance floor when one of the lads gets our attention and we look around and everyone is standing ram-rod straight hand on heart.
We felt like dicks and apologised profusely. In our defence the dj was playing a speeded up dancey version of it and it just blended in with the song before it.

I was also at the England Ireland football game in Wembley in 2013 and we stood for their anthem. It's about 3 minutes out of the rest of your life.

KERSPLAT!

efb wrote: »

GSTQ is an awful dirge - My least favourite of the 6 Nation's anthems. France's is cool.

I love the heart that goes in to Flower of Scotland at the six nations, gives me goosebumps!!

With regard to standing, I'd stand to show respect for any country's national anthem.

efb

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I love the heart that goes in to Flower of Scotland at the six nations, gives me goosebumps!!

With regard to standing, I'd stand to show respect for any country's national anthem.

It's quite good Live in Murrayfield- felt a bit limp this year though- post referendum

timthumbni

ken wrote: »

As long as I live I'll never forget a stag trip to Prague about 8-9 years ago. In a nightclub and all 10 of us giving it loads on the dance floor when one of the lads gets our attention and we look around and everyone is standing ram-rod straight hand on heart.
We felt like dicks and apologised profusely. In our defence the dj was playing a speeded up dancey version of it and it just blended in with the song before it.

I was also at the England Ireland football game in Wembley in 2013 and we stood for their anthem. It's about 3 minutes out of the rest of your life.

I've always stood in silence for the anthems at any Northern Ireland game I've been too. (That includes my own as I'm a crap singer). I think it is so disrespectful to boo the opposing teams anthem as it just makes you look like a complete twat. It is only a game of football after all. Rugby fans tend to be better behaved. Read from that what you will.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

As I said Young James (aged 26) born 1989, appears to be the most oppressed person ever.

The community he comes from had people murdered by the British state - if the guy doesn't want to wear the poppy or acknowledge the British anthem then he has good reason and every right to. Nobody has claimed he's the most oppressed person ever except you.

His attitude is childish

So a person who comes from The Creggan in Derry not wanting to engage in British jingoism is childish? There are thousands of people north and south with the same attitude as James McClean - are they all childish too?

Would you stand for the British national anthem

No, definitely not. I don't hate myself so why would I stand for the anthem of the country that has caused so much grief for my nation?

As I've said I stood for the Irish anthem and didn't feel it diminished me at all.

Nobody cares. If the Irish state murdered members of your community you'd certainly have a different attitude.

Jesus Wept

I don't stand for it when it is played in pubs because wtf. And that's generally the only times I encounter it.

Eugene Norman

efb wrote: »

GSTQ is an awful dirge - My least favourite of the 6 Nation's anthems. France's is cool.

This. And it doesn't have to be the English anthem since that song is the British anthem. They could use Jerusalem. A great tune.

As for national anthems. I would stand in other countries though the American super patriotism leaves me cold.

Ken.

Je suis Mario wrote: »

I don't stand for it when it is played in pubs because wtf. And that's generally the only times I encounter it.

I remember being in a pub during the 2004 Olympics(Athens). The medals were being given out for something and an American had won so their anthem was playing. 4 Americans in the pub stood up, hand on heart. They didn't sing along just stood there.

timthumbni

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The community he comes from had people murdered by the British state - if the guy doesn't want to wear the poppy or acknowledge the British anthem then he has good reason and every right to. Nobody has claimed he's the most oppressed person ever except you.



So a person who comes from The Creggan in Derry not wanting to engage in British jingoism is childish? There are thousands of people north and south with the same attitude as James McClean - are they all childish too?



No, definitely not. I don't hate myself so why would I stand for the anthem of the country that has caused so much grief for my nation?



Nobody cares. If the Irish state murdered members of your community you'd certainly have a different attitude.

Tom, why have you mentioned the poppy issue? This is a thread to do with respecting other national anthems. That takes whatabouterry to a whole new level.

Also Tom why are you bleating on about the British army? We are talking about national anthems. Can you not separate the British army from the British/UK national anthem? It's easy if you try. (Copyright J Lennon)

So you in your own words "don't hate yourself" enough to stand for GSTQ indicating that you think anyone Irish should hate themselves if they did stand for it. It's a flipping 1 min piece of music. Your attitude is very interesting though Tom and again it suggests to me feelings of deep insecurity that some seem to have on here. In that you aren't really Irish unless you hate/have no respect for the British/English. It's a bizarre and deluded idea that will just end up making one look like a great tit.

Nichard Dixon

When in Rome do as the Roman do.
Or at least don't go to Rome intent on disrespecting local customs.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

Tom, why have you mentioned the poppy issue? This is a thread to do with respecting other national anthems. That takes whatabouterry to a whole new level.

You have a poor understanding of whataboutery.

Also Tom why are you bleating on about the British army? We are talking about national anthems. Can you not separate the British army from the British/UK national anthem?

Not while the British State refuses to apologise for their deeds in Ireland. When the British apologise for their murderous past on this island then I'll consider respecting their anthem.

So you in your own words "don't hate yourself" enough to stand for GSTQ indicating that you think anyone Irish should hate themselves if they did stand for it.

I'm a nationalist from the north. I will not stand for the British anthem while they continue to pretend they didn't engage in mass murder of my community.

Your attitude is very interesting though Tom and again it suggests to me feelings of deep insecurity that some seem to have on here.

Trust me, if there's one thing I'm not insecure about it's my nationality. What nation are you of Tim? Are you British?

In that you aren't really Irish unless you hate/have no respect for the British/English.

I harbour no ill-will for the people of England, Scotland and Wales. I harbour plenty of ill-will for the filth who massacred Irish people down through the years and that includes the RUC/UDR.

It's a bizarre and deluded idea that will just end up making one look like a great tit.

People who don't agree with you are a 'great tit'? How unsurprising Tim. Dash of bitter orange with your Bushmills, 'Sir'?

timthumbni

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You have a poor understanding of whataboutery.



Not while the British State refuses to apologise for their deeds in Ireland. When the British apologise for their murderous past on this island then I'll consider respecting their anthem.



I'm a nationalist from the north. I will not stand for the British anthem while they continue to pretend they didn't engage in mass murder of my community.



Trust me, if there's one thing I'm not insecure about it's my nationality. What nation are you of Tim? Are you British?



I harbour no ill-will for the people of England, Scotland and Wales. I harbour plenty of ill-will for the filth who massacred Irish people down through the years and that includes the RUC/UDR.


It's a bizarre and deluded idea that will just end up making one look like a great tit.

[/QUOTE]

Well done Tom. You have just scored in the top percentile of "pure irishness" lol. Again I find your attitude bizarre and needlessly aggressive. (It's 2016 Tom, not 1969) Sinn Fein (though I've no idea if you are a supporter) are having tea and scones with the queen. How have you been left behind so badly?

Anyway no point arguing as don't want you to burst a blood vessel. I too am from Northern Ireland Tom (mostly refer to myself as Northern Irish saying as you asked) and lots of murders happened (none more so in number than by the IRA in case you forgot)

I will continue to respect the Irish national anthem. It's not hard to have a bit of manners as my dear old gran used to say. You of course must continue in whatever manner you seem fit. Such is life.

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

I too am from Northern Ireland Tom

Or in other words 'I'm northern Irish not Irish' Sure god love ye. It's a shame that you're so insecure that, unlike the Welsh and Scots, you feel the need to be explicit about being from a political jurisdiction rather than a geographic region.

and lots of murders happened (none more so in number than by the IRA in case you forgot)

That's not entirely true Tim. If murder is the killing of innocent people then the IRA would need to have committed a lot more murder to catch up with union/loyalists' sectarian murder rampage.

I will continue to respect the Irish national anthem.

You pretend to respect the Irish anthem expecting Irish people unconditionally respect GSTQ. The Irish state didn't murder members of your community - why you would wish Irish people would respect GSTQ is evidence only of your own attitudes.

DA7800

DA7800 wrote: »

One of those people has dual citizenship (Irish and U.S.). He remained firmly seated, and when I sort of hovered above my seat, beginning to stand, he told me to sit, saying it was "not our country, no need to stand". I decided to follow his advice.

Was this friend your teacher or something?

Why didn't you just do whatever you felt was right?