Getting a coach..and how it works/costs etc?

martyc5674

I see from reading here lots of lads have coaches..
My goals would be different to most who have coaches as i dont race, and quite frankly wouldnt be near race standard.
Do those of you who have coaches actually meet the coaches or do you just meet them once get measured up and get a plan and report back via email etc.
just curious as i always thought it was only for the elite athletes.
Marty.

Inquitus

martyc5674 wrote: »

I see from reading here lots of lads have coaches..
My goals would be different to most who have coaches as i dont race, and quite frankly wouldnt be near race standard.
Do those of you who have coaches actually meet the coaches or do you just meet them once get measured up and get a plan and report back via email etc.
just curious as i always thought it was only for the elite athletes.
Marty.

My experience of a brief dabble with coaching was it's too inflexible to fit around modern family/work life. The coach will give you a plan, a week, sometimes a month in advance, and review your session data and feedback ahead of issuing the next week, or months plan.

I was operating on a week by week basis, but found that work, and/or family life throws too much of a spanner in the works to follow a rigid plan well enough to produce top draw results.

You could be scheduled to do a 3 hour endurance ride on weds, followed by 1 hour easy on Thurs and intervals on Friday, If one of the kids, your wife, gets sick or has a party, or GAA match, or you have to work late, it can easily go out the window, and the knock on effect is such that you can't then do the 3 hour ride the next day and the intervals the day after, the whole schedule gets messed up. I have to travel alot with work often at short notice which further messed things up.

If you are young, free and single, or a college student, or just someone free from other responsibilities I am sure it could yield excellent results, but given the cost is in the €100 - €200 euro a month range personally I believe its too much to invest unless you have the freedom to be able to hit the 5 sessions and 10-12 hours a week required as per the plan, and can avoid life getting in the way.

RobFowl

I'll coach you for €25 a month

Expect to do lots of coffee spins and to get told off for breaking the rules

(results not guaranteed, T+C apply, triathletes not welcome)

Inquitus

RobFowl wrote: »

I'll coach you for €25 a month

Expect to do lots of coffee spins and to get told off for breaking the rules

(results not guaranteed, T+C apply, triathletes not welcome)

Done, do you accept payment in scones, jam and cream?

comete

The idea of a coach is to help you get the most from the time you have available, and they are, or should be easily reachable to adapt if things change.

The idea if getting a rigid plan is a bit mad.

*I am not a coach and have not been coached, but I know a number of coaches

RobFowl

Inquitus wrote: »

Done, do you accept payment in scones, jam and cream?

Coffee and scones (no jam but butter and cream accepted)

Retro jerseys also considered

Inquitus

comete wrote: »

The idea of a coach is to help you get the most from the time you have available, and they are, or should be easily reachable to adapt if things change.

The idea if getting a rigid plan is a bit mad.

*I am not a coach and have not been coached, but I know a number of coaches

Yes you can specify in advance of getting your weekly plan that you can do 3 hours Mon, Tues, Weds and 4 hours Sat, and a plan will be provided accordingly.

But life can still get in the way, you can pay more money and have more contact with your coach, but for €100 a month you can't really expect much more than week in advance planning, it will work for some people, but for others like me even times I specified at the weekend for the week ahead could be subject to work/kids/life getting in the way.

In the world of the elite athlete I expect there would be a daily to and fro with plans adapted accordingly, but as I say for €100 a month you aren't going to get that level of coaching.

And if you look at alot of the offerings out there, Paddy Doran offers a monthly training plan for €200 and A1 coaching will do you weekly for €150 of fortnightly for €100

http://www.peakendurancecoaching.ie/coaching/

http://www.a1coaching.net/coaching/coaching-plans/

martyc5674

I have the whole kids/family/juggling situation so there is no way i could stick to a rigid plan....or give anything near 12 hours.
Will they not give you a flexible plan?... i couldnt work it any other way so surely it would be better than no plan!!

Typically ill try get out 2 evenings a week for maybe 1-2 hours at a go and a 2 hour session the weekend..thats as much info as id be able to give them!
Would they no give you a plan like...do these intervals 1 weekday, do hill repeats another day, and do an endurance spin with a few efforts at the weeknds and give you some targets for heart rate etc, thats all id be looking for.
Maybe i could find it all online anyway...?
Marty

RobFowl

First write down your goals
What do you want out of cycling, are there any specific events you want to do?
How much time are you able to spend on it.

If you're not racing I'd not advise a coach tbh...

Beasty

My plan changes all the time due to family and other commitments - no big deal at all. I will get the main parts in 95%+ of the time, even if it's slightly out of order. If I miss a session, then so be it - unless I can fit it in before the next week without getting too fatigued it will simply be dropped. It may then result in a slight tweak going forward. Ideally your coach will amend and adapt as he/she sees fit anyway. the important thing is to provide feedback as you may find the plan changes anyway based on what you have done and how you are feeling

comete

So basically you want to get faster for less effort...maybe its not a coach you need :P

LCD

martyc5674 wrote: »

I have the whole kids/family/juggling situation so there is no way i could stick to a rigid plan....or give anything near 12 hours.
Will they not give you a flexible plan?... i couldnt work it any other way so surely it would be better than no plan!!

Typically ill try get out 2 evenings a week for maybe 1-2 hours at a go and a 2 hour session the weekend..thats as much info as id be able to give them!
Would they no give you a plan like...do these intervals 1 weekday, do hill repeats another day, and do an endurance spin with a few efforts at the weeknds and give you some targets for heart rate etc, thats all id be looking for.
Maybe i could find it all online anyway...?
Marty

A coach advises you what to do & you choose what to do with it. They can`t "make" you train. I coach with A1 coaching & speak to athletes before scheduling to find out what they can & can't do on a weekly basis. What I write is based on an ideal week, when work, family & all other commitments are normal. For the vast majority of people cycling is at best the 3rd priority in their life (family 1st, work 2nd) so it most fit in around those 2.

If all you have is 1-2 evenings a week & 2hrs on the weekend you are paying a coach to advise you on how get the maximum from that time.

Coaching is not just here is this month's plan, do it. You can get that on the net. What you are getting is support & feedback as well.

martyc5674

comete wrote: »

So basically you want to get faster for less effort...maybe its not a coach you need :P

Not the case... I want to get better/faster by training the same amount but by training smarter.
I already train hard but there's no real structure.
Marty.

thekooman

most coaches deal on power numbers so they'll first off they'll probably recommend getting a powermeter.

You could do a plan yourself? find your strength and weaknesses using a Wattbike or if you have a powermeter by doing a 5 sec, 1min, 5min and 20minute tests. the 2 books below are great for starting out with:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1934030201/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441375203&sr=8-1&keywords=cyclists+training+bible

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1934030554/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441375263&sr=8-1&keywords=training+powermeter

martyc5674

Joe fries looks interesting..don't have a powermeter and couldn't justify one either.
Maybe the question I should be asking is :
If you had 5 hours a week (over 3 sessions)on the bike how would you spend it to improve your performance over 80-100k moderately hilly spins.
marty.

Beasty

Seriously don't worry too much about a powermeter. They are certainly excellent tools to help training, but any self-respecting coach should be able to advise you without having to resort to power data (in fact, the last thing I need from my coach is feedback on power data - I can analyse all that myself, and indeed taught my coach a few things about power)

martyc5674

I've no intention of buying one until they have come WAY down in price!
I've never even looked at one TBH, HRM should be good enough for me.

Last winter I bought a cheap turbo trainer and was confined to it for about a month mid January to mid February or thereabouts.
I did 2 to 3 high intensity interval training sessions per week over that period..45 mins each.
When I got back out on the bike for a real spin I was expecting to really suffer...but I had actually gotten considerably stronger...felt like the bike was real easy to push.
So I was obviously training smarter for that short period unknown to myself!

Marty.

thekooman

the Training with a Powermeter book has some fantastic workouts in it for different gains and there is no need for a powermeter to do them as it goes on HR as well.
Some of the Sufferfest videos are great and i hear good things about Trainer Road as well. If you can figure out your weakness and strengths with a Wattbike you could do out a rough plan for yourself to help build on your weaknesses. some good off season gym work / cross training will help as well. Joe Friels book has a full section on gym workouts.

tunney

martyc5674 wrote: »

Joe fries looks interesting..don't have a powermeter and couldn't justify one either.
Maybe the question I should be asking is :
If you had 5 hours a week (over 3 sessions)on the bike how would you spend it to improve your performance over 80-100k moderately hilly spins.
marty.

Is five hours a week enough to make *any* gains?

Inquitus

tunney wrote: »

Is five hours a week enough to make *any* gains?

5 hours will take you to a level and plateau you there. I would think from personal experience 5 hours would suffice for A4 packfill for the average person, but no further.

Beasty

tunney wrote: »

Is five hours a week enough to make *any* gains?

Absolutely and without doubt in my own experience.

For much of the past year I simply could not put in more than 3-4 hours but what I could do was target my training. A lot of it had to be on the Wattbike which meant pretty much everything I was doing had a purpose. Now I was starting back from a low base but was still capable of starting the summer track league at the end of April. Not as fast as I was 2 years previously but I have progressed and am not far off that now despite still only getting maybe 5-6 hours in a week.

couerdelion

Average A4 race is what? 2 hours?

So 1x3 hour long session and 2x1 hour focused sessions should be enough to improve. It all depends what your current level is and how long you've been training and at what intensity.

I'd kind of agree with inquitus that it will bring you up to and keep you at A4 level but once (if!) you get up to A3 then you'll need to be doing more as the level is higher and the races are longer. Part of the reason I'm happy to stay on the bottom rung.

I'd also agree with the recommendation of TrainerRoad if you don't have a PM. It will keep your training honest.

RobFowl

Don't want to put a downer on things here but we're talking coaches and power meters with someone who can only get out a maximum of 5 hours a week.

A reality check is called for....

Leroy42

Cetaintly 5 hours per week is a the very lowest range of what you should be putting in. However, what is more concerning, in terms of getting improvements and hence the usefulness of a coach, is the lack of a plan.

THe op states that there are numerous things that get in the way that mean he has to change plans, sometimes at short notice.

Whilst of course in some circumstances this cannot be helped (we all have lives after all), consistency is the key to getting better at anything, and if you do miss a training session, it of itself will not make much difference but you need to then sacrifice something else in order to get back on track.

I think changing the language from 'going for a cycle' to 'going training' is an important first step. If you want to see improvements (depending of course on the base level you are currently at) then you need to be focused. If you only have 5 hours so be it, but make those 5 hours count. So effectively that will be 5 hours on the turbo, 6 45 minute sessions or so. If work/family gets in the way then early morning/late nights.

I know of guys who travel o lot for work so training is chaotic on the road, but they insist that the hotels they stay in have access to a gym so at least some workout can be done. After a few weeks of turbo only sessions you will really know whether you are interested in training or just cycling.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with just cycling and doing whatever you can. Not everyone can be top dog, we all have priorities and work, bills, family etc are more important in the overall scheme of things than what is essentially a hobby.

I didn't get a coach this year, but I did focus more on training plans (I used Strava plans during the winter for example) and cycles had a clear objective. TBH, it kinda drives you mad as you miss the 'fun' of just cycling with your mates, but then for me that is more than replaced with the feeling of achievement.

Have a look for some online plans, and give them a go for a few weeks. If you can commit to one of them then maybe the next step would be to get a personalised training plan

martyc5674

Leroy42 wrote: »

Have a look for some online plans, and give them a go for a few weeks. If you can commit to one of them then maybe the next step would be to get a personalised training plan

Cheers.
That's really what I'm after.... A personalised training plan.
So "who" would help me develop one of these?

Leroy42

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.

As mentioned earlier, sit down and draw up your plans. What is your current situation. Level of fitness, time etc. What do you want to do? If you simply want to get quicker on your local club rides then that's one thing. Looking for the Marmotte or similar, thats different. Thinking about racing, different again.

There are plenty of plans on-line but you need to have a starting point and and a target otherwise you will get lost. For example, Strava have plans ranging for sprints to 60 minute climbs. Obviously if your targeting A4 racing then sprints is a better use of your time than 60 minute climb (although of course both are beneficial).

Where do you feel you are struggling at the moment? Is it anytime the road goes up, maybe it's fine for the 1st 2 hours but then you fall away? Lack of a sprint?

Do you know your LTHR or FTP? Do you prefer climbing or TT?

1t place to start is to get a read of where you are. Go out and do some hard efforts. A 20 minute climb if you can find one or a 20 minute flat course are ideal but whatever you can do be it 10 minutes are whatever. Either way something that you can be free from obstructions such as traffic lights etc. Do 2 runs at it and take your average for both - be that HR, Pwr or simply whatever. That gives us a baseline to work from.

That, and the target, will give you a start and end point and then its simply a matter of plotting how best to achieve the desired gains in order to give you the best possibility of achieving your goals. How many hours a week can you commit? Can you fit in longer as well as shorter rides?

The 'who' is kind of immaterial unless you can answer some of the points above. While a good coach will aim to make the best of what is available, and the end of the day they are just the facilitator or your plan. Their job is to ensure plans are reasonable and continue to push the rider in order to achieve the best possible outcome, they are not a magic bullet.

roverrules

comete wrote: »

So basically you want to get faster for less effort...maybe its not a coach you need :P

Or maybe it is!

Www.coachhiredublin.com

Unknown Soldier

martyc5674 wrote: »

Cheers.
That's really what I'm after.... A personalised training plan.
So "who" would help me develop one of these?

I've never even looked into these but... Strava has a load of training plans for premium members.

Maybe that is worth looking into if you are not looking to race but just do things/get better?


http://www.strava.com/athlete/training-plans/cycling

Sorry if I am way off the mark!

Jack Joll

5 hours is a bit slack, and by the sounds there's not much commitment to that, what happens If one week you miss a Sat and Sunday training or cycling then next week ya dont get on the bike til Tuesday or Wednesday thats the guts of a week missed.
Point is its time to be realistic here, cycle racing is all about honesty in particular with yourself, and been brutally honest whats the point in suffering in an A4 race every weekend just to say your a bike racer. You'd be better off at home out on a bun run, enjoying the bike. Not everyone has to be a racer, but point been training should closely reflect your goals. If your goals are to sit in the bunch of A4's and just come in on their coat tails 5hours may be enough, anymore and your dreaming. Not only that expensive, with diesel, food, and entry fee, why put the expense on yourself.
In my experience through the years in numerous sports I have taken part, I always heard the "have no time" line, but if your honest as I said before, it's laziness!! There I said it! Theres plenty of time in a day, damn I do it myself, as soon as I have the youngster in bed - rollers for 1:30hr. First thing in the morning!! same, lights on the bike cycle to work. It can be done,,unless your a doctor and on call 23hrs a day??

Honesty!! 5 hours will get you no where, but a dislike for the bike. And we dont want that!

outfox

You can draw up your own personalised plant using the Joe Friel book. I followed it last winter, and saw a big improvement. The JF plan starts with how many hours a week you can give, and works out a training plan based on your goals. Drawing up the plan is slow though. Took me a whole day to have it all worked out. BTW, I don't have a power meter.

godtabh

outfox wrote: »

You can draw up your own personalised plant using the Joe Friel book. I followed it last winter, and saw a big improvement. The JF plan starts with how many hours a week you can give, and works out a training plan based on your goals. Drawing up the plan is slow though. Took me a whole day to have it all worked out. BTW, I don't have a power meter.

Which book? The Power Meter Handbook?

martyc5674

Jack Joll wrote: »

5 hours is a bit slack, and by the sounds there's not much commitment to that, what happens If one week you miss a Sat and Sunday training or cycling then next week ya dont get on the bike til Tuesday or Wednesday thats the guts of a week missed.
Point is its time to be realistic here, cycle racing is all about honesty in particular with yourself, and been brutally honest whats the point in suffering in an A4 race every weekend just to say your a bike racer. You'd be better off at home out on a bun run, enjoying the bike. Not everyone has to be a racer, but point been training should closely reflect your goals. If your goals are to sit in the bunch of A4's and just come in on their coat tails 5hours may be enough, anymore and your dreaming. Not only that expensive, with diesel, food, and entry fee, why put the expense on yourself.
In my experience through the years in numerous sports I have taken part, I always heard the "have no time" line, but if your honest as I said before, it's laziness!! There I said it! Theres plenty of time in a day, damn I do it myself, as soon as I have the youngster in bed - rollers for 1:30hr. First thing in the morning!! same, lights on the bike cycle to work. It can be done,,unless your a doctor and on call 23hrs a day??

Honesty!! 5 hours will get you no where, but a dislike for the bike. And we dont want that!

Ok... Since you speak about honesty a lot.
Answer this honestly.
Did actually you read my OP?

If you did you would realize I don't race/intend racing.. So i guess you didn't.

I spend approx 5 hrs a week on the bike and I'm simply asking how best to use those hours, be it 1 hour hills 1 hour intervals 3 hours endurance etc to maintain a good level of fitness... That's all.
Marty.

12 sprocket

martyc5674 wrote: »

Ok... Since you speak about honesty a lot.
Answer this honestly.
Did actually you read my OP?

If you did you would realize I don't race/intend racing.. So i guess you didn't.

I spend approx 5 hrs a week on the bike and I'm simply asking how best to use those hours, be it 1 hour hills 1 hour intervals 3 hours endurance etc to maintain a good level of fitness... That's all.
Marty.

Heres a radical thought.. just wake up every day and ask yourself what would I really enjoy doing today in regard to cycling and go and do it, and even within the spin you might change your mind or route.. it could be a matter of what's up that side road? I was never up there before lets go and see.

Jack Joll

Honestly, when ya caught me out there I thought I hadn't and had just given advice, with all other replies at the back of my mind. But then I went back to the OP, and realised I had read your post...you merely said you wouldn't be at a standard to race! You didnt mention you werent trying to improve your standard, guess I mistook what you meant. And therefore you have nothing to worry about!

martyc5674

Jack Joll wrote: »

Honestly, when ya caught me out there I thought I hadn't and had just given advice, with all other replies at the back of my mind. But then I went back to the OP, and realised I had read your post...you merely said you wouldn't be at a standard to race! You didnt mention you werent trying to improve your standard, guess I mistook what you meant. And therefore you have nothing to worry about!

No Worries... thread had gone off track errr a wee bit...

mathie

martyc5674 wrote: »

No Worries... thread had gone off track errr a wee bit...

Do you just want to know a way to get the most out the five hours a week you have?

Leroy42

@marty5674, if you have no intention of racing then IMO a coach is overkill.

First off is the motivation/time management. You need to be clear on what you can/are willing to put in before you can contemplate how much you are going to get out.

unfortunately, any significant time on the bike requires sacrifice. Whether that means giving up on nights out, getting up early, doing rollers after kids bedtime, it really depends on your circumstances.

One thing to consider, and plan for, is that it isn't just a sacrifice on your part. Your partner, kids, friends etc will all be impacted to some degree. Friends will see you less on nights out for example, but especially the family as you will be away for hours every weekend. The flip side is maybe you need to then do more during the week or whatever to balance it out. And its not just the time of the cycle. There will be times where you will come back wrecked and the whole day is pretty much a write off in terms of you being of any use!

There are plenty of outline plans on the web to get you started. With winter coming up a great way to get useful advice is to join a club. Many will be starting their winter spins in the next month or so and its a great way to head out with others and see what they are doing etc.

martyc5674

mathie wrote: »

Do you just want to know a way to get the most out the five hours a week you have?

YES!!!...thats it exactly... and I suppose I thought id need the help of a coach to develop some kind of program to do that, after seeing the prices people quoted here that wont be happening!

As it is thats all the time i can afford on the bike...life is pretty hectic at the moment so i want to make the most out of it and come out the other side of rearing the kids some way fit!


Marty.

Amprodude

I have a coach for about 6 weeks now. I was getting dropped in my first A3 races but after I got a coach I was finishing in the bunch. Except on last stage of Charleville yesterday where I was dropped and came in with the 2nd bunch and lost time. It's p#ssing off when you don't keep a good thing going but time to park up the bike for a while now before the winter.

Leroy42

You can still do a lot with 5 hours, but I guess most people (myself included) didn't pick up on the fact that the 5 hours was the limit.

You can do 2 1 hour turbo sessions during the week and then a 3 hour ride on the weekend. This would help your power but also keep your endurance up.

For those 2 1 hour turbo sessions, it is essential that you have a clear plan. Maybe get the sufferfest videos (i'm never used them myself) of perhaps the Strava plans etc. I used them and found them good for keeping me focused.

The main thing, given your limited time, is that every minute has to be used for something. Get rid of the wasted miles. Sure, nothing wrong with the long slow distance miles that are the traditional winter program, but if you has very limited time look at whcih use of the time you do have gives the best bang for your buck.

There are many studies that show that short, but frequent, high intensity sessions can give extremely positive results. The downside is that this way is very difficult, but from a physical and mental point of view.

What is it that you are trying to achieve, its kinda got lost in the thread, and that will gives us a basis on which to give a bit more detail

G1032

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is it that you are trying to achieve, its kinda got lost in the thread, and that will gives us a basis on which to give a bit more detail

He wants to get faster but can't afford a lot of training time.
He needs to better structure his existing 5 hours training time to help him achieve this

martyc5674 wrote: »

Not the case... I want to get better/faster by training the same amount but by training smarter.
I already train hard but there's no real structure.
Marty.

Lumen

One approach is to do one hour a week on the turbo and the other four enjoying the improved fitness out on the road, just riding your bike.

Better that than sucking the joy out of all five hours by treating them as "training". Unless you really like training, in which case five hours isn't enough.

martyc5674

Leroy42 wrote: »

You can still do a lot with 5 hours, but I guess most people (myself included) didn't pick up on the fact that the 5 hours was the limit.

You can do 2 1 hour turbo sessions during the week and then a 3 hour ride on the weekend. This would help your power but also keep your endurance up.

For those 2 1 hour turbo sessions, it is essential that you have a clear plan. Maybe get the sufferfest videos (i'm never used them myself) of perhaps the Strava plans etc. I used them and found them good for keeping me focused.

The main thing, given your limited time, is that every minute has to be used for something. Get rid of the wasted miles. Sure, nothing wrong with the long slow distance miles that are the traditional winter program, but if you has very limited time look at whcih use of the time you do have gives the best bang for your buck.

There are many studies that show that short, but frequent, high intensity sessions can give extremely positive results. The downside is that this way is very difficult, but from a physical and mental point of view.

What is it that you are trying to achieve, its kinda got lost in the thread, and that will gives us a basis on which to give a bit more detail

Your right...ill start another thread... the "coach" word has this one going the wrong direction.
Marty.

NeedMoreGears

My own suggestion would be to set yourself a goal - something more specific than "go faster" and build a plan around that; five hours/week would let you tackle a 100km-130km sportif.

Five hours should give you 2 x 1 hours (turbo would be best as it's so hard but also quite controllable in terms of effort) and one 3hr spin at the weekend. 3hrs should give you some endurance work, maybe some hills and and even some "just cycling your bike"

You might have a look at the "Time Crunched Cyclist", which sounds like it might be aimed at someone like yourself.

BremoreDave

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

Five hours should give you 2 x 1 hours (turbo would be best as it's so hard but also quite controllable in terms of effort) and one 3hr spin at the weekend. 3hrs should give you some endurance work, maybe some hills and and even some "just cycling your bike"

I found my fitness levels improved a lot this year just following the above . 1 to 2 sessions of 2*20 intervals on the turbo or a session of hill sprints , and then 2.5hr or 3hr club spin at the weekend.

outfox

godtabh wrote: »

Which book? The Power Meter Handbook?

Cyclist Training Bible. Given that the OP want's to maximise his 5 h, I think he'd find the book very useful. Assuming he can spare the 5 days it takes to figure the damn thing out!

BarryAlfaro

everyone say that getting a coach is helpful but what about the expenses,I can not afford it,I think internet is from where we can get every help,no need of coach.

Daroxtar

Sorry to hijack the thread but would a coach give guidance on pedalling technique? I know YouTube can show me how but would a trained eye be of benefit to get me moving more efficiently?