Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

UnitedIrishman

The issue here isn't this weekends games, it's the fact that the County Board should have fixtures run off by now and it was a poor statement on their part to say 'win or lose there'll be championship this weekend'. There's no reason why the group stage of the championship can't have been done before the Galway game. April 3 was Mayo's last league tie, and they didn't play again until May 29. There is no reason why 3 rounds of championship couldn't be played in that time period. That would at least have half of the teams eliminated from competition (bar relegation sides - who could play during the summer if they had no county players) so people know where they stand going into the summer. Even if they had reached the NFL Division 1 final (April 24), they could have played 2 + 1 in the period after the game.

As for league games, play them during the summer without county players. It realistically means bugger all these days anyways when it no longer determines what grade you play championship at. Teams want to play higher up the leagues because it means they'll be testing themselves in preparation for championship and that's about it.

NabyLadistheman

naughto wrote: »

Did any one ask the players what they wanted?
Like would any manager want to play there county players and be the reason that they get injured and miss the allireland.

Seems to me that Ger Caff's statement sums up how the players felt about it

PARlance

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Seems to me that Ger Caff's statement sums up how the players felt about it

I don't think it was a coincidence that it came from an injured player within the panel. He was free to make the statement and I would guess that he wasn't acting alone.

yop

Parlance, my point was that nothing has changed with the way fixtures are handled. Nothing to do with looking after players.

**For some reason your post has disappeared now, weird!

PARlance

yop wrote: »

Parlance, my point was that nothing has changed with the way fixtures are handled. Nothing to do with looking after players.

**For some reason your post has disappeared now, weird!

Having a nightmare on the phone / mobile site.

yop

PARlance wrote: »

Having a nightmare on the phone / mobile site.

Haha, it appeared again, 1/2 posted, now its gone again! But I get your point. Or maybe I dont !:)

Peist2007

padd b1975 wrote: »

I honestly can't believe this is even being discussed at any great length.

65 years people.

65 ****ing years.

I have already cited Kilkenny as the prime example that disproves your point. Playing championship with the club next weekend will make bugger all difference. In fact, given the level of scrutiny these guys are under i would think a weekend of less intense club football could be quite a psychological boost.

PARlance

yop wrote: »

Haha, it appeared again, 1/2 posted, now its gone again! But I get your point. Or maybe I dont !:)

Ah I give up. It kept posting mid post and eventually when I had it all down, it failed to post.

In short, I think the club players have every right to be annoyed. There's no comparison to 10, let alone 20 years ago. And there are many more that are rightly p*ssed off. From chatting to a handful, I would guess it's a majority that are.

Whilst it may have been poorly written, I think Bulb went on to explain the not caring about Mayo winning. And there's no denying that bandwagon fans are out there and I can empathise with a club player getting irate as he flicks through facebook etc and sees some of the people "campaiging" to get the games cancelled.

Yes the issue lies with the County Board, but players should kick up more of a fuss imo. It's the only way it'll get heard. I wouldn't have massive faith in club representatives doing the job.

Cosmo Kramer

PARlance wrote: »

I don't think it was a coincidence that it came from an injured player within the panel. He was free to make the statement and I would guess that he wasn't acting alone.

Aboslutely - I read that as being pretty much a statement by the entire senior panel, rather than being just Ger's opinion. Releasing the statement through Ger was a very clever way to do it actually, if they had released the same statement as being officially from the panel, it would have all kicked off again and could have been a disaster.

I don't play club football and the county team would be far more important to me than the club, but I can see where the club players are coming from to a point. These games should have been played earlier in the year, there was plenty of time before the London game.

However, whatever the flare up that has come out of this decision this week, it is nothing compared to what would happened if the games went ahead and even one first team player got an injury that ruled him out of the final. This way is far from ideal but it is the lesser of the two evils at this stage.

The one argument I really don't get is the Kilkenny hurling thing. It's easy to play club before a final when you've won 36 All Irelands and have the best panel of players in the country but it bears no relation to the position the Mayo football team are in.

The comparison of Kilkenny with Tipp isn't relevant either because it suggests that playing club games has been a benefit to Kilkenny when the reality is that, over the last 10 years, the reason Kilkenny have been more successful is that they have had a far better team most years, it has had nothing to do with playing club games. The Kilkenny example might be a good reason for Dublin to be playing club games the weekend after their semi-final, but it has no relevance to Mayo.

yop

PARlance wrote: »

Ah I give up. It kept posting mid post and eventually when I had it all down, it failed to post.

In short, I think the club players have every right to be annoyed. There's no comparison to 10, let alone 20 years ago. And there are many more that are rightly p*ssed off. From chatting to a handful, I would guess it's a majority that are.

Whilst it may have been poorly written, I think Bulb went on to explain the not caring about Mayo winning. And there's no denying that bandwagon fans are out there and I can empathise with a club player getting irate as he flicks through facebook etc and sees some of the people "campaiging" to get the games cancelled.

Yes the issue lies with the County Board, but players should kick up more of a fuss imo. It's the only way it'll get heard. I wouldn't have massive faith in club representatives doing the job.

Ah your too young so! I remember in 89 when we had games lined up and the weekend before we played Tyrone in the semi and they were cancelled at short notice. The difference then was there was no internet (literally!)

But now there is a lot more social avenues to vent.

But again as you and I have both said, responsibility lies with the County board, but them idiots always expect people to beg at their feet.
Players need to get this sorted as it will occur again and again.

PARlance

yop wrote: »

Ah your too young so! I remember in 89 when we had games lined up and the weekend before we played Tyrone in the semi and they were cancelled at short notice. The difference then was there was no internet (literally!)

But now there is a lot more social avenues to vent.

But again as you and I have both said, responsibility lies with the County board, but them idiots always expect people to beg at their feet.
Players need to get this sorted as it will occur again and again.

I broke into it early but 89 would have been a stretch. Were there summer long drinking bans in 89?

happyoutscan

Peist2007 wrote: »

I have already cited Kilkenny as the prime example that disproves your point. Playing championship with the club next weekend will make bugger all difference. In fact, given the level of scrutiny these guys are under i would think a weekend of less intense club football could be quite a psychological boost.

Quite possibly yes, however I'd rate the possibility of injuries to our better players as too big a risk to take with the final only a few weeks away.

How big of a hit would it be to be going into the biggest game of the year missing anyone of Keegan, O'Shea, O'Connor, Moran etc.?

Yes we have a decent bench but missing any of our key players would be would seriously impact our chances.

If we could win one then by all means re-structure the attitude/fixtures etc of the club games.

Hopefully it will happen.

yop

PARlance wrote: »

I broke into it early but 89 would have been a stretch. Were there summer long drinking bans in 89?

I was underage.... But definitely not

Robeman

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Aboslutely - I read that as being pretty much a statement by the entire senior panel, rather than being just Ger's opinion. Releasing the statement through Ger was a very clever way to do it actually, if they had released the same statement as being officially from the panel, it would have all kicked off again and could have been a disaster.

I don't play club football and the county team would be far more important to me than the club, but I can see where the club players are coming from to a point. These games should have been played earlier in the year, there was plenty of time before the London game.

However, whatever the flare up that has come out of this decision this week, it is nothing compared to what would happened if the games went ahead and even one first team player got an injury that ruled him out of the final. This way is far from ideal but it is the lesser of the two evils at this stage.

The one argument I really don't get is the Kilkenny hurling thing. It's easy to play club before a final when you've won 36 All Irelands and have the best panel of players in the country but it bears no relation to the position the Mayo football team are in.

The comparison of Kilkenny with Tipp isn't relevant either because it suggests that playing club games has been a benefit to Kilkenny when the reality is that, over the last 10 years, the reason Kilkenny have been more successful is that they have had a far better team most years, it has had nothing to do with playing club games. The Kilkenny example might be a good reason for Dublin to be playing club games the weekend after their semi-final, but it has no relevance to Mayo.

There is a rumour going around that Rochford wanted players to play this weekend (seems to be confirmed by his post Tipp match interviews when he spoke of players going back to clubs) as did Board but the big egos in the panel decided otherwise and forced Uturn by Roch and Board to preserve outward display of unity. If true the big egos are running the show and have seriously undermined the authority of Roch.

We could argue merits of competitive game time versus additional preparation time but at the end of the day decision should be managers and not panel and most definitely should not be a decision of minority big ego segment of panel.

Personally I think should have played this w.e. as nothing like competitive game time. Yes could be injuries but can also be injuries in training and internal matches and even in warm up on final day.

Kilkenny \ kerry win because nobody is bigger than the team and if somebody gets injured they dont panic as they have another panel members almost equally as good who can slot in. They don't have prima donnas on their panels.

yop

Robeman wrote: »

There is a rumour going around that Rochford wanted players to play this weekend (seems to be confirmed by his post Tipp match interviews when he spoke of players going back to clubs) as did Board but the big egos in the panel decided otherwise and forced Uturn by Roch and Board to preserve outward display of unity. If true the big egos are running the show and have seriously undermined the authority of Roch.

We could argue merits of competitive game time versus additional preparation time but at the end of the day decision should be managers and not panel and most definitely should not be a decision of minority big ego segment of panel.

Personally I think should have played this w.e. as nothing like competitive game time. Yes could be injuries but can also be injuries in training and internal matches and even in warm up on final day.

Kilkenny \ kerry win because nobody is bigger than the team and if somebody gets injured they dont panic as they have another panel members almost equally as good who can slot in. They don't have prima donnas on their panels.

Silly season is in full flow. Rumors are great.

We will still have the same lads who are complaining that they can't get tickets and in Croke Park shouting them on and celebrating with the team.

Peist2007

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

The one argument I really don't get is the Kilkenny hurling thing. It's easy to play club before a final when you've won 36 All Irelands and have the best panel of players in the country but it bears no relation to the position the Mayo football team are in.

The comparison of Kilkenny with Tipp isn't relevant either because it suggests that playing club games has been a benefit to Kilkenny when the reality is that, over the last 10 years, the reason Kilkenny have been more successful is that they have had a far better team most years, it has had nothing to do with playing club games. The Kilkenny example might be a good reason for Dublin to be playing club games the weekend after their semi-final, but it has no relevance to Mayo.

The club games arent being cancelled because Mayo havent won the All Ireland since 1951 :rolleyes:

Robeman

yop wrote: »

Silly season is in full flow. Rumors are great.

We will still have the same lads who are complaining that they can't get tickets and in Croke Park shouting them on and celebrating with the team.

This is Mayo where silly season lasts 365 days a year and Mayo GAA always plays a starring role.

Speaking of tickets we can expect that once again there will be no proper accounting of how many tickets given to Mayo GAA and where they all will end up.

How hard can it be for Mayo Secretary to do this exercise which should include confirmations from central council and club secretaries.

padd b1975

Peist2007 wrote: »

I have already cited Kilkenny as the prime example that disproves your point. Playing championship with the club next weekend will make bugger all difference. In fact, given the level of scrutiny these guys are under i would think a weekend of less intense club football could be quite a psychological boost.

Kilkenny aren't really a like with like comparison in the context of preparing for an AI Final.
They're pretty much guaranteed at least 2 AI's per decade, ditto Kerry in football.
It's a different mindset completely.

We're pretty much in the last chance saloon with the best pool of players in 20 years trying to bridge a 65 year gap-totally different both mentally and probably physically in terms of preparation.

Cody is an absolute winner, but he's never had to carry what Rochford and the players are shouldering right now, not by a long shot.
If he was, I suspect he might not be as accommodating towards clubs as he has been...

I honestly can't recall a group of players from any county that has ever gone into a final with such a burden of expectation and pressure as Mayo will on September 18th.If they feel keeping themselves together as a group is in anyway beneficial, I think in the circumstances nobody should question their motives.

yop

Robeman wrote: »

This is Mayo where silly season lasts 365 days a year and Mayo GAA always plays a starring role.

Speaking of tickets we can expect that once again there will be no proper accounting of how many tickets given to Mayo GAA and where they all will end up.

How hard can it be for Mayo Secretary to do this exercise which should include confirmations from central council and club secretaries.

Chip and shoulder....

And not a great place to make statements like that either.

Kalyke

We should not compare ourselves to the preparation of either Tipp or KK. The fact is that neither Kerry or Dublin will have any club matches between now and when one of them play the final.

Peist2007

padd b1975 wrote: »

Kilkenny aren't really a like with like comparison in the context of preparing for an AI Final.
They're pretty much guaranteed at least 2 AI's per decade, ditto Kerry in football.
It's a different mindset completely.

We're pretty much in the last chance saloon with the best pool of players in 20 years trying to bridge a 65 year gap-totally different both mentally and probably physically in terms of preparation.

Cody is an absolute winner, but he's never had to carry what Rochford and the players are shouldering right now, not by a long shot.
If he was, I suspect he might not be as accommodating towards clubs as he has been...

I honestly can't recall a group of players from any county that has ever gone into a final with such a burden of expectation and pressure as Mayo will on September 18th.If they feel keeping themselves together as a group is in anyway beneficial, I think in the circumstances nobody should question their motives.

You're missing the point also. The games arent being called off because we havent won an all ireland since 1951. The fact that anyone could think that shows how little of a clue some people in here really have.

Kilkenny are a perfect example because they play competitive club games the week before major intercounty championship games. Mayo have pulled competitive club fixtures 3 weeks before a major intercounty game.

As you say Kilkenny have all irelands coming out their ears and they play the week before their county team. We havent won the all ireland since 1951 and we wrap our players in cotton wool.

And as someone who has prepared for an All Ireland final, let me tell you there will be nothing more intense the next few weeks than Mayo training sessions with numbers 16-30 making a claim for a final place. Club games will be strolls in the park in comparison.

Peist2007

Kalyke wrote: »

We should not compare ourselves to the preparation of either Tipp or KK. The fact is that neither Kerry or Dublin will have any club matches between now and when one of them play the final.

Dublin and Kerry play on Sunday so their championship games wouldnt be until the following week. Which no one here is proposing that Mayo do. While Dublin play Kerry this weekend there should be a run off of club championship fixtures.

PARlance

Peist2007 wrote: »

You're missing the point also. The games arent being called off because we havent won an all ireland since 1951. The fact that anyone could think that shows how little of a clue some people in here really have.

Kilkenny are a perfect example because they play competitive club games the week before major intercounty championship games. Mayo have pulled competitive club fixtures 3 weeks before a major intercounty game.

As you say Kilkenny have all irelands coming out their ears and they play the week before their county team. We havent won the all ireland since 1951 and we wrap our players in cotton wool.

And as someone who has prepared for an All Ireland final, let me tell you there will be nothing more intense the next few weeks than Mayo training sessions with numbers 16-30 making a claim for a final place. Club games will be strolls in the park in comparison.

I thought the games should go ahead* until GC's statement, which I took to be a players statement. If the players don't want to play or feel the right thing to do is not play, then cancel the games imo. Right or wrong, there was no going back after that statement.

I think there are massive differences between the Mayo and Kilkenny scenarios. The main one being that Kilkenny's 16-30 could probably win an All Ireland on their day. So the risk of injury impacting the result is far less than Mayo. We don't have that luxury, nobody bar Kilkenny does.

*More out of respect for the club player than anything else. There shouldn't be any difference between a Club Championship game and a County training game from here in.

Westernyelp

Robeman wrote: »

There is a rumour going around that Rochford wanted players to play this weekend (seems to be confirmed by his post Tipp match interviews when he spoke of players going back to clubs) as did Board but the big egos in the panel decided otherwise and forced Uturn by Roch and Board to preserve outward display of unity. If true the big egos are running the show and have seriously undermined the authority of Roch.

We could argue merits of competitive game time versus additional preparation time but at the end of the day decision should be managers and not panel and most definitely should not be a decision of minority big ego segment of panel.

Personally I think should have played this w.e. as nothing like competitive game time. Yes could be injuries but can also be injuries in training and internal matches and even in warm up on final day.

Kilkenny \ kerry win because nobody is bigger than the team and if somebody gets injured they dont panic as they have another panel members almost equally as good who can slot in. They don't have prima donnas on their panels.

There will be a lot of those.

PARlance

Westernyelp wrote: »

There will be a lot of those.

I wonder how Cillian and Aidan are getting on these days.

Westernyelp

PARlance wrote: »

I wonder how Cillian and Aidan are getting on these days.

Ah stop! Aidan is too busy on the snapchat to care

yop

Westernyelp wrote: »

Ah stop! Aidan is too busy on the snapchat to care

Rumor has it he broke Cillians diving board, so they have fallen out. Rumor has it that Rochford then tried to super glue it and glued himself to the floor.

But anyway, we are as well not to go up to Croker, its lost already

naughto

Peist2007 wrote: »

The club games arent being cancelled because Mayo havent won the All Ireland since 1951 :rolleyes:

There is nothing in his post that suggest this.if u have nothing worth while to add to the form then don't post at all

PressRun

Robeman wrote: »

There is a rumour going around

Ah, would ya give over. Will we ever hear the end of these "rumours"? :rolleyes:

Club games are off. Time to move on.

Blud

naughto wrote: »

There is nothing in his post that suggest this.if u have nothing worth while to add to the form then don't post at all

There is nothing in this post that adds to the forum either...

Oh well, the lad from Ballintubber in the Mayo News link summed it up nicely, there's not much more to add. The club players have been shafted again, this thread shows that the majority of people don't care.

My comment re not caring about winning the All Ireland seemed to get a few backs up - despite the context I put the sentence in. Of course I care, every club player in Mayo probably cares, the point is that the quest for Sam is always at our expense. Always will be too. So I've decided that there's no longer any point in playing for me, something Peist2007 seems to have decided a few years ago and something others will probably decide for themselves when they hit their tipping point too.

My point on this thread has been that shafting players like this to the point of losing them is not good for Mayo GAA, irrespective of if we win the All Ireland or not. There's a lot on here that can't see in front of their nose though - in a time of increasing urbanisation driving lads in their mid 20s away from Mayo GAA is not good.

Onwards and upwards. Roll on the 18th of Sept, I won't be driving home for the 25th.