India Connection

nikonuser

Many thanks for your replies.
pedroeibar, Best of luck with your other project, hope you make your ‘deadline’.

It is taking a while to absorb all the information and suggestions you have posted. Yours and ‘wexflyer’s’ suggestion re St Helena is one I will be following up on. The Birth of ‘John Morrow’ in 1819, may be a strong possibility.

Wexflyer, I realise that here is a lack of records for Catholics so are you suggesting that ‘John Morrow’ may not be one because there is a record for him in St Helena?
How important is the ‘Catholic’ connection? I know the ‘Meroes’ were affiliated with the RC Churches here in Dublin but were the same affiliations as strong in India at that time? I am only getting to grips with most of this so forgive if I seem innocent on the matter.

Wexflyer, re your query on my GG Granny maiden name. I have 3 notations for 'Mary Anne Meroe'.
1: St. Audeon’s Baptismal Record for her son, Patrick, 16/12/1864. 'Marianna Coffey’ is used.
2: Civil Birth Record for the same son, 11/12/1864. 'Maryann Merreo formerly Caulfield’ is used.
3: Death Certificate for her, ‘Maryanne Mero’ is used, no maiden name.

I have been using ‘Caulfield’ as a working name as I have only just found the St Audeon’s entry within the last month and had the Civil Record of a good while.
You are right in suggesting that there is no valid reason to use one over the other. I may start using both names until further information comes forward. Thanks.
J

wexflyer

nikonuser wrote: »

Wexflyer, I realise that here is a lack of records for Catholics so are you suggesting that ‘John Morrow’ may not be one because there is a record for him in St Helena?
How important is the ‘Catholic’ connection? I know the ‘Meroes’ were affiliated with the RC Churches here in Dublin but were the same affiliations as strong in India at that time? I am only getting to grips with most of this so forgive if I seem innocent on the matter.
J

I should state that I have never done any direct research on India myself, but I am familiar with British colonialism, military history, etc. With that in mind, I would say that:

- The Catholic church was an illegal organization in Britain until 1829. The first Catholic chaplains were not appointed in the British army until 1836. So, I think it highly unlikely that any Catholic records are included in the "Indian" records for the period you are interested in (ca 1819).

- I have personally been "burned" on several occasions when sources/databases did not turn out to cover the locations/dates I was interested in, so always a good idea to explicitly check those details at the start.

- There are multiple possibilities for your John Meroe, born ca 1819, and none can be excluded. In no particular order:
a) Born a Protestant, but later converted on marriage. Not uncommon. This could be an option for the St. Helena born John Morrow.
b) Born of Catholic parents in St. Helena. As no Catholic priest available, might be baptized by only available clergy (protestant), and thus appear in British records. (Not sure how common such an event was, but it did happen).
c) Born of Catholic parents in Bengal/Calcutta region. The Christian church in India dates to the time of the Apostles, and there was a Catholic community in Calcutta since the 1500s at least. But their records (if any) are not included in British East India Co. records in BL. For what it is worth, I saw an assertion somewhere that most of the Catholics in Calcutta ca. 1800 were Eurasians (mixed parentage).

Hope this helps

nikonuser

wexflyer, again, thanks.

The first connection with any church I have for the Meroe gang is the Baptism of their son, Patrick in St Audeon's in 1864. Up until that time I have no indication of any religious affiliation. John Meroe could certainly have been a convert as could his wife, Mary Anne.
Her parents remain unfound but, and this may be pure coincidence but I have found an entry for a Mary Anne Caulfield, Born 1826, St Helena. This is the year that my GG Granny, Mary Anne Meroe should have been born, died 1866, aged 39 years. Two names, both a St Helena connection?

Your thoughts 'that most of the Catholics in Calcutta ca. 1800 were Eurasians (mixed parentage)' may suggest that if my family were Catholic prior to arriving in Dublin before 1864 that one or more of them may have been more Eurasian than European, or mixed. As I have suggested before my genetic pool certainly has leaning towards the more Indian features.

Many thanks for the background on the religious situation in India, this can only help and hopefully narrow down a few things as, fingers crossed, they come to light.

Cheers, J

wexflyer

nikonuser wrote: »

wexflyer, again, thanks.

..... Two names, both a St Helena connection?

Cheers, J

Now that does seem like quite a coincidence, doesn't it. St. Helena is hardly a big place!
You already referenced it, but St. Helena had a strong British garrison from 1815-1821 to guard the Emperor Napoleon, who was of course held there in captivity.

wexflyer

wexflyer wrote: »

...St. Helena had a strong British garrison from 1815-1821 to guard the Emperor Napoleon, who was of course held there in captivity.

Given the sensitivities exhibited previously with respect to the "gentlemen" of the RIC, I should hasten to apologize for my solecism in referring to the "Emperor Napoleon", contrary to Act of Parliament. I meant, of course, General Bonaparte.

Regards

nikonuser

wexflyer, Emperor, General, either, or, will do fine

Yes, two names with correct dates on the same small island.
But of course there are always issues. GG Grandfather: John Meroe (John Morrow, born on St Helena, Father listed as 'James'). John 'Mirean/w/u on the Marriage Cert 1867 has a Father: Johannes. the Civil Marriage cert from Werburgh St on Wednesday may clear some of this up.

GG Granny: Mary Anne Meroe is 'Coffey' on son's 1664 Baptism cert and 'Caulfield' on her Death cert.

But I have to admit, 2 names (even with variations), with correct birth years has to be investigated.

Why they were born there? wexflyer, you have already said that St Helena was administered by the EIC and so was Benares.
I'll accept the coincidence. It is certainly worth further investigation.
Back to the British Library (online of course).
Cheers, J

nikonuser

Further to my searching for the India Connection, which I think I have established now I have I recently had a good look at Google Earth and in particular, St Helena. I really hadn't appreciated how isolated it is, and certainly was back in the 1800s. When you scroll in further and further there is absolutely nothing anywhere near it. The journeys people made in swaying, dirty, damp ships going to and from India... there is no way of fully appreciating it now.
I'm sure the facts will emerge as I keep searching. I have probable links in St Helena, Calcutta and now Lahore. At this stage it is really the stories behind the certificates, dates and names that is keeping e going
J

nikonuser

The frustration continues, and not for the last time I’m sure.

I had been concentrating my India efforts on a John Morrow, 1572, Sergeant in the 81st Foot, born in Derry. The "Morrow' name was courtesy of Wexflyer. John Morrow was married to a Mary Anne & they had several children in India at the time that would suit me, mid-1850’s, an Ann, a John, a James & a Henry. No Thomas though (Thomas Meroe, Richmond Prison records has his Birthplace in Calcutta).

I received an email, last week, out of the blue, from a lady in England who was a descendant of this John Morrow. Apparently he moved, after his Discharge in 1862, to Halifax with Mary Anne, (the UK one, not the Canada one), opened a gun-smith shop & lived there until he died in 1873.

So basically this women ‘kidnapped’ my GG Grandfather. I had a lot of hope pinned on this gentleman, born correct time, India correct time, wife Mary Ann, all good. Discharged from the Army at a time that would allow them to be in Dublin in 1864….. it wasn’t to be.

Actually it was great to hear from her. I now can cross this John Morrow off my list. I passed on his Army Discharge record, which she hadn’t previously seen & so found his birthplace. Another piece of her puzzle. Another gap in mine.

I am back to that stonewall that so many users of this Forum will be familiar with.

I have 2 positive links to India, Thomas Meroe, Richmond Prison 1873, Birthplace Calcutta, & his father John Mireau, Marriage in Dublin in 1867, parents Eorum Residentia, Benares East Indies.

Other than these 2 links I have little else. I have been unable to trace John Morrow, born St Helena 1819, did he ever leave the island, stay there, marry there? I had sent a request to the Island archives, all I received was what was available online, his Birth Record in 1819 (Father James, I want a John from his Dublin Marriage in 1867). Still this could be him?

Mary Anne? Caulfield? Coffey? Born 1826 in St Helena? Same result as John Morrow, only her Birth Record from the St Helena Archivist. Did she & John meet there, marry there, leave there for India? Nothing. If this pair are mine, why come to Dublin in 1864? I also have a Mary Anne Caulfield born in Dublin in 1827 to add to the confusion.

I know we have all reached times like this when an encouraging lead fizzles out and we seem to be back to square one, frustrated and discouraged. But… and this is probably why we join forums like this one, a suggestion, a thought, an idea and even a database link from someone can set one off afresh.

Back to the records….

J

nikonuser

I thought I'd post an update to my continuing search for any addition to the 2 links i have to India for my Great Great Grandparents: the 'Meroe' relations. I have had great advice & many suggestions from the member of this forum. I have had queries out to FIBIS as well as the UK National Library. I heard back from the Library people yesterday, Nothing unfortunately. They were searching for John Meroe & his wife Mary Anne having a son born in Calcutta around 1854. They tried the name variations that have surfaced but, nothing.

Maybe there is a point that one reaches and says, that's it.... If the British Library can't help? Maybe I will never find out why or what John & Mary Anne were doing in India in the 1850's & why they arrived in Dublin by 1864... but if they hadn't I wouldn't be typing this.

J