Toilet

Ken.

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this so mods please move if its not.

My daughter went back to school today(6th year). They have a new principal who has outlawed going to the toilet during class. One girl in her class today started her period and spent 30 mins begging to be let to the toilet.

Is their any laws or rules around this. Anything I've found online is very general and aimed mostly at primary schools.

I'm not the most subtle in situations like this and if the same thing does happen down the line their will be a murder. I'm looking to pre empt a trip to mountjoy by going in Monday with a print out showing how she is in the wrong.

James Bond Junior

ken wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this so mods please move if its not.

My daughter went back to school today(6th year). They have a new principal who has outlawed going to the toilet during class. One girl in her class today started her period and spent 30 mins begging to be let to the toilet.

Is their any laws or rules around this. Anything I've found online is very general and aimed mostly at primary schools.

I'm not the most subtle in situations like this and if the same thing does happen down the line their will be a murder. I'm looking to pre empt a trip to mountjoy by going in Monday with a print out showing how she is in the wrong.

Cop on to yourself, you're the reason teachers and principals insist on appointments if you wish to speak to them. A sixth year student is an adult and should be able to regulate their toilet use. You should be glad that the new management is cutting out unnecessary time wasting, especially at your daughters leaving cert year.

There is ample time at breaks to use the toilet and in secondary schools they change rooms every 40 to 50 minutes. If one can't hold it then there most be something wrong. Remember when it comes to your children and what happens in school you often only get half the story.

A_Sober_Paddy

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Cop on to yourself, you're the reason teachers and principals insist on appointments if you wish to speak to them. A sixth year student is an adult and should be able to regulate their toilet use. You should be glad that the new management is cutting out unnecessary time wasting, especially at your daughters leaving cert year.

There is ample time at breaks to use the toilet and in secondary schools they change rooms every 40 to 50 minutes. If one can't hold it then there most be something wrong. Remember when it comes to your children and what happens in school you often only get half the story.

Well i'm just assuming here as i'm a man, you can't just hold your period...

Also there is a number of issues in relation to holding a bowel movement(piles and tears) and holding a pi$$ in can weaken the sphincter and can lead to pi$$ing yourself later in live...

the dark phantom

That girl and her parents should speak to a good solicitor and office of the ombudsman for children.

www.oco.ie#sthash.Y7X4DckO.dpuf

No need for that type of extreme carry on by a teacher to refuse a student use of the bathroom.

Diamond Doll

Classes are only, what, 35 minutes long? 5 minutes spent on a toilet break is a decent enough chunk of the class missed. Plus there's disruption to the rest of the class with students coming and going all through the class. No reason anyone can't go at the breaks in between classes, even if they have their period.

If your daughter has some sort of a medical issue that means she can't regulate her bathroom use, ask your GP for a letter to allow her leave during class, and I doubt there would be any problem with this.

A_Sober_Paddy

This little piggy wrote: »

Classes are only, what, 35 minutes long? 5 minutes spent on a toilet break is a decent enough chunk of the class missed. Plus there's disruption to the rest of the class with students coming and going all through the class. No reason anyone can't go at the breaks in between classes, even if they have their period.

If your daughter has some sort of a medical issue that means she can't regulate her bathroom use, ask your GP for a letter to allow her leave during class, and I doubt there would be any problem with this.

If its a case of it happening all the time, week in week out then i'd understand a clamp down...but on the first day...

Also when i was in School, if you were caught going bathroom between classes you were in trouble, you had to ask your teacher during class

Ken.

Sometimes you get caught short, we've all been there. When you gotta go you gotta go. As to her being an adult, She's just gone 16 and what about the 12-13 year old's just starting out.

Cedrus

That is outrageous!

I can't help with anything specific to secondary schools, but I would immediately want to see their Health and Safety Plan. How are they planning to deal with students who have medical needs, do they have first aiders and relevant facilities to look after diabetics, toxic shock syndrome, etc.

I can see that some students may intentionally disrupt classes with toilet demands, but it should be left to the teachers discretion how to manage that foolery. It sounds to me that the new principal is trying to stamp their authority but is no good at joined up thinking.

A total ban is demeaning, self defeating and dangerous.
I would be drafting a letter to Jan O'Sullivan as Minister for Education, all local TDs, the schools board of directors, the schools sponsor and all of the local doctors.

If your daughter was working or in prison and was told this, she could take a case to the labour court or the European court of human rights.

I don't even have kids and i am mad about this.

whupdedo

James Bond Junior wrote: »

. A sixth year student is an adult and should be able to regulate their toilet use.

So a student who is and should be regarded as an adult in your eyes , should be treated like a child and told to go to the toilet only when teacher says so , your post is an oxymoron and your over reacting a little bit . If a teacher can't tell the difference between the pupils that are taking advantage and the genuine cases then they need to open their eyes.

Their is absolutely no excuse for stopping someone from going to the toilet when the need is strong enough , the principal is entirely in the wrong

Hollister11

I finished school just over a year ago. We had to ask to go to the toilet, and most teachers said yes. If teachers said no, and you were dying, we just got up and went.

We were 17/18 and being told if we could go to the toilet or not. Fup that.

moc moc a moc

ken wrote: »

Is their any laws or rules around this.

You pay (and therefore employ) these people, do you not? As their paying customer, tell your daughter that you set the rules and she can leave a class freely if she has a good reason.

James Bond Junior wrote: »

A sixth year student is an adult

A 17-year-old schoolchild most certainly is not an adult.

James Bond Junior wrote: »

If one can't hold it then there most be something wrong

Exactly the point of the thread. If a student insists on leaving the class to visit the toilet, a teacher should entertain the possibility that there is a very good reason for this request (e.g. period emergency).

This little piggy wrote: »

If your daughter has some sort of a medical issue that means she can't regulate her bathroom use, ask your GP for a letter to allow her leave during class

Somewhat difficult to go visit a GP for period issues in the middle of a school day, I would expect

seavill

Ok this is the most over the top thread I have ever read from start to finish.

Firstly OP, deal with the issue properly, not going in screaming the place down. Ring the school Monday and ask for an appointment to talk to the Principal. Calmly explain your point of view, after asking them for their reasoning for it. If you are incapable of keeping your cool, get your partner/parent, whoever to go instead of/with you.

The next couple of responses were as bad. You don't have to cop your self on OP, but you also don't have to go running to a solicitor or the Ombudsman. I don't understand why people jump to these stupid ideas immediately.
Why can't people just go in and talk and see where they gets you. If it gets you no where then have a look as to what is next.

You are right to get your facts straight before going in, however even if you get facts for God sake don't go in all aggressive throwing the facts in the face of the principal. You will only be as bad as them then. Don't be mellow-dramatic about things either.

One response is correct, the principal is most likely trying to lay down the law for the first while. I am a teacher and 75% of the time people ask to go to the toilet they don't need to, they are bored, or want to go off for a chat.

In our school students are "not allowed" go to the toilet either. In reality that is not as strict as it sounds. My general rule of thumb is if they ask me once I say no, if they ask the second time I let them go. The amount of times someone asks once and when told no, has no problem with it and doesn't ask again.

I wouldn't blame the class teacher, the principal most likely has them on strict instructions of what to do.

From the inside my advice is:
- get as much knowledge as you can on the issue (I'm not sure will you find anything written down I've never seen anything)
- if there is a medical issue a note from the doctor will solve that problem without any hassle from the school, it will be discretely told to the teachers and there won't be any problems.
- arrange an appointment with the principal
- be calm and explain why you are there, allow them to explain their reasoning behind the rule, and then ask them questions about if there is an emergency etc. (if you can't be calm DON'T GO IN, get someone else to do it for you, no teacher or principal has any problem meeting with any parent if you can actually have a conversation with them, if its someone who is irate why would you want to even entertain that)
- Don't use research as a stick to beat them with
- Explain that you feel a 100% rule is dangerous territory as it may lead to an accident in class (imagine the embarrassment), or medical complications.
- If you don't get anywhere with the principal approach your parents council
- If that doesn't work write a letter to the secretary of the Board of Management (the secretary will be the principal but addressing it to the secretary means that it has to be brought to the attention of the entire board)
- After all that then you can look into other avenues if you like, but I guarantee you won't have to

Most problems in schools have very simple solutions, the problem is most people don't use those simple solutions

seavill

moc moc a moc wrote: »

You pay (and therefore employ) these people, do you not? As their paying customer, tell your daughter that you set the rules and she can leave a class freely if she has a good reason.

OK ignore this, you do not employ "these people", your tax goes a million places, for all you know every penny you pay goes towards the roads and the Gardai, this argument will get you no where. You are not a paying customer. You cannot set the rules in a school in any way shape or form. You and your child agree to the code of conduct and rules of the school by attending.
If you don't like the rules you are free to take your child wherever else you want.
Please OP don't take this advice you will back yourself into a very dark corner where you won't win.

A 17-year-old schoolchild most certainly is not an adult.

Agreed



Exactly the point of the thread. If a student insists on leaving the class to visit the toilet, a teacher should entertain the possibility that there is a very good reason for this request (e.g. period emergency).

This is very true and 99% of the time this is what happens in fairness. I would not say to a child to walk out the door, but if it is a genuine emergency that can't wait, approach or call down the teacher, tell them you will have to leave even without permission. The student may initially land in some trouble but again 99% of time nothing will come of it once it is explained why you had to leave. Remember the teacher is under pressure from the principal, it's not necessarily their fault

Somewhat difficult to go visit a GP for period issues in the middle of a school day, I would expect

That is not what people were saying, the advice re the GP is that if there is a known medial issue a GP will write a letter to the school explaining the needs of the child. Not that the child leaves the class to go to the GP to get a letter that minute

km79

also something to think about.......why have principals started to take this approach......every school has always had this issue so why now the mode string handed approach?
The claim\blame culture
Child let out of class child gets hurt whilst unsupervised .....who will be blamed/sued?
Sad reflection on today's society really .
It's like primary schools having to stop kids running on the yards. Parents rightly complain but who was to blame for it having to be enforced in the first place ........if all parties should common sense in all these incidences then there would be no problems.
But that's not the world we live in anymore sadly

john.han

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Cop on to yourself, you're the reason teachers and principals insist on appointments if you wish to speak to them. A sixth year student is an adult and should be able to regulate their toilet use. You should be glad that the new management is cutting out unnecessary time wasting, especially at your daughters leaving cert year.

There is ample time at breaks to use the toilet and in secondary schools they change rooms every 40 to 50 minutes. If one can't hold it then there most be something wrong. Remember when it comes to your children and what happens in school you often only get half the story.

Exactly, they're old enough to know when they need to go to the toilet and should be allowed and trusted to do so. An outright ban is ill thought out, inconsiderate and is probably a good indicator that institutionalised narrow minded nonsense dominates the disciplinary mindset of the school. This is typical of those in charge behaving more like kids than the students

Ken.

seavill wrote: »

Ok this is the most over the top thread I have ever read from start to finish.

Firstly OP, deal with the issue properly, not going in screaming the place down. Ring the school Monday and ask for an appointment to talk to the Principal. Calmly explain your point of view, after asking them for their reasoning for it. If you are incapable of keeping your cool, get your partner/parent, whoever to go instead of/with you.

The next couple of responses were as bad. You don't have to cop your self on OP, but you also don't have to go running to a solicitor or the Ombudsman. I don't understand why people jump to these stupid ideas immediately.
Why can't people just go in and talk and see where they gets you. If it gets you no where then have a look as to what is next.

You are right to get your facts straight before going in, however even if you get facts for God sake don't go in all aggressive throwing the facts in the face of the principal. You will only be as bad as them then. Don't be mellow-dramatic about things either.

One response is correct, the principal is most likely trying to lay down the law for the first while. I am a teacher and 75% of the time people ask to go to the toilet they don't need to, they are bored, or want to go off for a chat.

In our school students are "not allowed" go to the toilet either. In reality that is not as strict as it sounds. My general rule of thumb is if they ask me once I say no, if they ask the second time I let them go. The amount of times someone asks once and when told no, has no problem with it and doesn't ask again.

I wouldn't blame the class teacher, the principal most likely has them on strict instructions of what to do.

From the inside my advice is:
- get as much knowledge as you can on the issue (I'm not sure will you find anything written down I've never seen anything)
- if there is a medical issue a note from the doctor will solve that problem without any hassle from the school, it will be discretely told to the teachers and there won't be any problems.
- arrange an appointment with the principal
- be calm and explain why you are there, allow them to explain their reasoning behind the rule, and then ask them questions about if there is an emergency etc. (if you can't be calm DON'T GO IN, get someone else to do it for you, no teacher or principal has any problem meeting with any parent if you can actually have a conversation with them, if its someone who is irate why would you want to even entertain that)
- Don't use research as a stick to beat them with
- Explain that you feel a 100% rule is dangerous territory as it may lead to an accident in class (imagine the embarrassment), or medical complications.
- If you don't get anywhere with the principal approach your parents council
- If that doesn't work write a letter to the secretary of the Board of Management (the secretary will be the principal but addressing it to the secretary means that it has to be brought to the attention of the entire board)
- After all that then you can look into other avenues if you like, but I guarantee you won't have to

Most problems in schools have very simple solutions, the problem is most people don't use those simple solutions

I didn't explain myself very well in the op. I will be very calm but if it came to an incident where my daughter near soiled herself then there'd be hell to play. I'll book an appointment first thing Monday morning. I've been talking to a few of the other parents on facebook and they are going to do the same thing.

gaiscioch

You pay (and therefore employ) these people, do you not? As their paying customer, tell your daughter that you set the rules and she can leave a class freely if she has a good reason.

This is the sort of "You show them bleedin' teachers, son!" parenting advice that gets the most messed-up kids in even more trouble (and, in my experience, the sort of parents who give it are usually trying to be best friends with their child in order to get back at their estranged partner. The war, played out in your classroom).

To state the depressingly obvious: classrooms cannot operate if students decide to come and go as they please.

spurious

Try being a teacher trying to get to the toilet because of an illness or condition.

zeffabelli

Not being able to use the toilet when you need to is just so so so wrong.

Sick cruel policy.

zeffabelli

gaiscioch wrote: »

This is the sort of "You show them bleedin' teachers, son!" parenting advice that gets the most messed-up kids in even more trouble (and, in my experience, the sort of parents who give it are usually trying to be best friends with their child in order to get back at their estranged partner. The war, played out in your classroom).

To state the depressingly obvious: classrooms cannot operate if students decide to come and go as they please.

Yes they can.

They can let kids use the bathroom.

They can let Muslim students out for day prayer.

They function just fine.

Ken.

gaiscioch wrote: »

This is the sort of "You show them bleedin' teachers, son!" parenting advice that gets the most messed-up kids in even more trouble (and, in my experience, the sort of parents who give it are usually trying to be best friends with their child in order to get back at their estranged partner. The war, played out in your classroom).

To state the depressingly obvious: classrooms cannot operate if students decide to come and go as they please.

Yeah, I won't be going with any of that advice. Not to brag but she has been best student 3 out of her 4 years so she is good in school and wouldn't do it even if I told her to anyway.

One of the parents knows the chairperson of the board of management who's child is in second year and the chairperson knows about this issue and will be having a word Monday.

spurious

Great, your friend on the Board can allocate the funds when a free for all policy results in daily vandalism and bullying. Not everybody's angel is an angel at school.

Do you think schools make these rules for a laugh?

Ken.

spurious wrote: »

Great, your friend on the Board can allocate the funds when a free for all policy results in daily vandalism and bullying. Not everybody's angel is an angel at school.

Do you think schools make these rules for a laugh?

Well in the 4 years of 'free for all' the toilets haven't been vandalised yet.

spurious

ken wrote: »

Well in the 4 years of 'free for all' the toilets haven't been vandalised yet.

Good for them. It must be a unique place. Perhaps the parents will be delighted with children unsupervised in corridors too.

The insurance companies will be thrilled.

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

ken wrote: »

Yeah, I won't be going with any of that advice. Not to brag but she has been best student 3 out of her 4 years so she is good in school and wouldn't do it even if I told her to anyway.

Teachers pet? :rolleyes: :pac: :pac:

zeffabelli

spurious wrote: »

Good for them. It must be a unique place. Perhaps the parents will be delighted with children unsupervised in corridors too.

The insurance companies will be thrilled.

Well in sure everyone will be happy when there's blood all over the seats or the janitor to clean up the products of an upset stomach, coeliac, or Ibd, or Ibs.

Insurance companies will be thrilled with that unhygienic and public ally humiliating practise.

Get a new insurance company. I don't believe for a second this had anything to do with insurance. Pull the other one, it plays jingle bells.

RandomName2

ken wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this so mods please move if its not.

My daughter went back to school today(6th year). They have a new principal who has outlawed going to the toilet during class. One girl in her class today started her period and spent 30 mins begging to be let to the toilet.

Is their any laws or rules around this. Anything I've found online is very general and aimed mostly at primary schools.

I'm not the most subtle in situations like this and if the same thing does happen down the line their will be a murder. I'm looking to pre empt a trip to mountjoy by going in Monday with a print out showing how she is in the wrong.

6th year or 6th class? Because 6th year implies being either virtually or literally an adult, with no legal requirement to still be in education. What sort of BS school would have hard-and-fast 'toilet rules' for 17/18 year olds?

RandomName2

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Cop on to yourself, you're the reason teachers and principals insist on appointments if you wish to speak to them. A sixth year student is an adult and should be able to regulate their toilet use. You should be glad that the new management is cutting out unnecessary time wasting, especially at your daughters leaving cert year.

There is ample time at breaks to use the toilet and in secondary schools they change rooms every 40 to 50 minutes. If one can't hold it then there most be something wrong. Remember when it comes to your children and what happens in school you often only get half the story.

Are you allowed to go to the lavatory at work?

If you are, do you think that it is wrong that it is allowed?

Sometimes I despair at the Irish psyche.:pac:

I hope you don't dare to knock on your supervisor's office door without an appointment either.

I didn't bother reading the other posts because they're very long and pretty much three pages of quoting post and telling them that they're wrong!
In my opinion it's ridiculous that they can't go to toilet!no one knows what's going on physically or emotionally with someone else! Why not just give them a time limit if they go! Ten minutes or detention!?

When I was in sixth year I needed to use the loo during class. I asked and my teacher said no. It got worse and worse until I was bursting. I asked several more times but she stood firm. I learned nothing in class that day because all I could think about was how desperately I needed the loo. As well as that I was mortified! Firstly I was pretty much begging asking that many times. How humiliating is that? Begging to go to the toilet? Secondly it was as if I was some kind of trouble maker, which I was not! Luckily we had break next because like someone else said, we weren't allowed go between classes.
I told my mum what happened. I was fairly upset about it. She was furious that I was denied such a basic need. She went straight to the teacher in question the next day and asked her what happened. The teacher said she didn't want kids constantly interrupting the class to go get up to god knows what in the toilets. My mum asked if I was constantly disrupting classes asking to go and the teacher said no. She asked if I'd ever been caught doing something unacceptable in the toilets, like smoking vandalism etc. The teacher said no. And that was that. My mam told me to ask once and then just go.
An outright ban is outrageous. You have every right to be annoyed OP. Like someone else said a teacher needs the to be able to tell when someone is genuine and someone is not. I think your doing the right thing by getting together with other parents to tackle this. An united front and all that.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

When I was in 5th year, a girl in my year had been setting fire alarms off for weeks during classes. Got to the stage where we weren't allowed leave when the smoke alarm went off, it was so regular. All well and good until one day the crazy bitch set fire to the stock cubicle. So, there's good reason not letting kids roam the corridors whenever they like.

God love your daughter if within the space of a few mins, (classes are 35 mins long) she has to go and can't wait, that's not going to work out very well for her in real life. As for periods, the girl couldn't go to the toilet before class? Your period doesn't hit you like a truck without warning and have you bleed out within 30 mins. And from going to an all girls school, "I have my period" was excuse for just about anything. Dodging pe, missing maths class and going to sick bay because you didn't do your homework, wanting to get out of class to go for a smoke.

Also, I'd be scarlet my father going into the school to argue with the principle when I was in 6th year.

gaiscioch

gaiscioch wrote: »

To state the depressingly obvious: classrooms cannot operate if students decide to come and go as they please.

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yes they can.

Where?

99% of schools do

Monkeysgomad

My school doesn't allow toilet breaks during class or between the next class only at lunch. However as stated above teachers know who genuinely needs the toilet and who is messing. If you ask for the bathroom and your not a messer the teacher will allow you go. We have hall passes to monitor who should be out of class also.

Wanderer78

third level works fine with people coming and going. its a little distracting at times but when nature calls!

Penny Tration

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Your period doesn't hit you like a truck without warning and have you bleed out within 30 mins. And from going to an all girls school, "I have my period" was excuse for just about anything.

Try having PCOS or endometriosis and come back to me saying that.

When I was in school (I have PCOS, diagnosed as a teenager), I could get periods twice a month, or none for three months, it was totally irregular. The only indication it was on the way was a dull ache for about two minutes then I bled - heavily. Through my underwear. Onto my school skirt.

My school had a 'no toilet break' rule, which resulted a few times in me having to leave the school for the day because I'd beg to go to the toilet once that ache started, would be refused, and would bleed through my uniform, then have to go home because I wouldn't walk around in period stained clothing.

Then there's people with IBS, weak bladders, and other illnesses.

In the end, I'd have to regularly humiliate myself by telling my teachers quickly, in front of the class, that if they didn't let me out immediately, I'd bleed through my clothing by the end of the class.

That's beyond disgusting, to have to explain that to a teacher. And wearing pads every single day, just in case, isn't a viable option because after two straight weeks of wearing them, they irritate the skin and hurt.

Teachers know who are dossers and messers, and who aren't. They should use the brains they're paid to use and make a rational judgement call.

Wanderer78

this is a disgraceful way to treat people. punish everybody for the wrongs of a few. id like to think if i was in the above situations, id just get up and go to the toilet, and deal with whatever after it. i do realise this is easier said than done though. we re giving kids complexes about pure natural things.

KomradeBishop

Really guys can we not be pretending silly stuff will happen, like kids are going to set fire to the school when going to the toilet, when this has only happened in extraordinarily infrequent anecdotes.

Next time someone here finds themselves cut short when badly in need of going to the toilet, force yourself to wait another 35 minutes and see how that goes.

I'm surprised there aren't laws regarding this - banning students from being able to go to the toilet can actually cause medical problems, so schools are probably liable for this, if it can be proven as the cause of a students problems:
http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/school-toilet-rules-putting-childrens-health-at-risk-30077333.html

Moody_mona

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Next time someone here finds themselves cut short when badly in need of going to the toilet, force yourself to wait another 35 minutes and see how that goes.

I'm surprised there aren't laws regarding this - banning students from being able to go to the toilet can actually cause medical problems, so schools are probably liable for this, if it can be proven as the cause of a students problems:
http://www.independent.ie/life/family/learning/school-toilet-rules-putting-childrens-health-at-risk-30077333.html

But the teachers have to do that, they can't up and leave. Likewise the other post about pcos and irritable bowel syndrome.

Wanderer78

a friend of mine suffers from irritable bowel. he informed a previous boss of the issue. boss said he couldnt leave his job no matter what, he obviously did. authoritative figures need to get over themselves. i do realise its not that easy for a child to disobey an order from an authoritative figure but when its necessary, its actually ok to do so

Ken.

I did find this on the INTO website. The bit I've bolded seems to me that making kids all wait till break time is forcing them to line up. Would having this printed out mean anything if I brought it to any meeting.

http://www.into.ie/NI/INTOStudentCentre/StudentPublications/StudentTeachersandtheLaw.pdf

CHILDREN GOING TO THE TOILET
Within the classroom situation, it is advisable that children should
be assured of privacy when going to the toilet. As far as it is
practicable or possible the Board of Management have a
responsibility to facilitate this. If at all possible, children should not
be forced to line up and go to the toilet at specific times of the day.
Where possible, children should be facilitated to go to the toilet
when the need arises. If it is noticed that a child is going to the
toilet too frequently, his/her parents should be informed, in order
that they can have the child checked out medically, so that the
teacher will know whether it is reasonable to limit the number of
times such a child goes out. Toilet practices may be outlined in the
schools’ code of behaviour.

Penny Tration

Moody_mona wrote: »

But the teachers have to do that, they can't up and leave. Likewise the other post about pcos and irritable bowel syndrome.

But teachers have a choice of going out and getting another job that doesn't refuse to allow them to go to the toilet. Children don't have the option of just not going to school.

Wanderer78

to be honest if my child was refused to be allowed go to the toilet during school, id tell them to go and id fully support them on the consequences on doing so. my own parents done so for me on a different matter. one of the best things ive ever done growing up. it taught me to stand up for what was right for me and others. i can still clearly remember it and still have no regrets on doing so. its very important to stand up for your right at any stage of your life.

Moody_mona

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

But teachers have a choice of going out and getting another job that doesn't refuse to allow them to go to the toilet. Children don't have the option of just not going to school.

I think its a bit dramatic to choose a job based on toilet facilities. I'm just making the comment that a student should not be given the advice to just get up and leave because they're an adult, the teacher is an adult and doesn't have that privilege.

doc_17

moc moc a moc wrote: »

You pay (and therefore employ) these people, do you not? As their paying customer, tell your daughter that you set the rules and she can leave a class freely if she has a good reason

So teachers aren't in charge in their classroom? Ok. So I can tell, for example, a Garda that I am their paying customer so that means I set the rules.

Ridiculous

AulBiddy

LexieOnRale wrote:

God love your daughter if within the space of a few mins, (classes are 35 mins long) she has to go and can't wait, that's not going to work out very well for her in real life. As for periods, the girl couldn't go to the toilet before class? Your period doesn't hit you like a truck without warning and have you bleed out within 30 mins. And from going to an all girls school, "I have my period" was excuse for just about anything. Dodging pe, missing maths class and going to sick bay because you didn't do your homework, wanting to get out of class to go for a smoke.

Your period can hit you without warning. It happened to me many times before when I wasn't used to having my period and it was very irregular. Some girls really do have trouble with this, especially the younger ones.

As for the toilet problem just tell her to get up and go if she really has to. When I was in school we weren't allowed go in between classes either and I would just get up and leave, nothing was said. It might distract the other students for a few seconds but it is 10 times more distracting for yourself if you need the toilet badly or have a period problem. Yes there are some people who abuse the rules but you cannot ban everyone from using a basic facility.

implausible

The principal is laying down the law on the first day. In reality, I doubt it will be 100% followed through.

People need to put themselves in a teacher's shoes: you have 30 students in front of you, 5 of them ask to go to the toilet at various times. Asking interrupts the class, going out and in again interrupts the class and being gone for 5 minutes means the student misses time in the class. The majority of the time the student just wants to go for a walk, leave the class or have a chat. Sometimes they're genuine.

My blanket policy is 'no', but students know that if it's genuine and they let me know discreetly, I will let them go. The teacher should be aware of the needs, medical or otherwise, of the students in front of them, but a teacher doesn't have the time to investigate them, they need to be communicated. A period is not a medical need, it rarely comes on that suddenly; if a girl has heavy or sudden ones, their form teacher needs to be aware of it.

I amazed that no one here has ever used going to the toilet as an excuse to get out of a class?

Wanderer78

all this is posing another possibly more interesting question. why do kids wanna get out of the classroom if its not for use of the toilet?

blatantrereg

Not remotely okay to declare people cannot use the toilet. Screwed up attitude to think it is okay.
Tell them to go quietly without asking permission so there's minimal interruption.
Tell them only one person may be out to the toilet at a time so there is minimal skipping.

Ken.

implausible wrote: »

but students know that if it's genuine and they let me know discreetly, I will let them go.

With all due respect how is a student in a classroom of 29 others meant to discreetly ask without disrupting the class more than sticking up their hand and saying sir/miss/etc can I go to the toilet.

Thinking about it the first Irish I learnt was 'An bhfuil cead agam ag dul go dti an leithris' and first day of French class in secondary school was 's'il vous plaît puis-je aller aux toilettes'

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Jenny Thalia wrote: »

Try having PCOS or endometriosis and come back to me saying that.

When I was in school (I have PCOS, diagnosed as a teenager), I could get periods twice a month, or none for three months, it was totally irregular. The only indication it was on the way was a dull ache for about two minutes then I bled - heavily. Through my underwear. Onto my school skirt.

My school had a 'no toilet break' rule, which resulted a few times in me having to leave the school for the day because I'd beg to go to the toilet once that ache started, would be refused, and would bleed through my uniform, then have to go home because I wouldn't walk around in period stained clothing.

Then there's people with IBS, weak bladders, and other illnesses.

In the end, I'd have to regularly humiliate myself by telling my teachers quickly, in front of the class, that if they didn't let me out immediately, I'd bleed through my clothing by the end of the class.

That's beyond disgusting, to have to explain that to a teacher. And wearing pads every single day, just in case, isn't a viable option because after two straight weeks of wearing them, they irritate the skin and hurt.

Teachers know who are dossers and messers, and who aren't. They should use the brains they're paid to use and make a rational judgement call.

If things like that were prone to happening, it would be common sense to have a word with the teacher at the beginning of the class, or the beginning of the year. "I have a medical condition and will need the bathroom without warning sometimes. So, if I leave the class this is why".