Educate Together

6541

So all over the media today is a story about how the Castlebar branch of Educate together was hard done by the Department of Education. I have never heard such crap and once again am embarrassed by the light its cast Castlebar in. The fact of the matter is that a school and grounds were offered the the concept that is Educate together. It is up to the people of Educate together to get there building in order.
What is the point in running to the national media. The spokesman for the campaign in Castlebar comes across as an idiot.

gaius c

16 catholic schools in Castlebar and the new educate together is 8km outside the town.

That's the definition of lip service.

Peregrinus

gaius c wrote: »

16 catholic schools in Castlebar and the new educate together is 8km outside the town.

That's the definition of lip service.

Well, it's worth pointing out that to get up to 16 Catholic schools you have to cast a net that's rather more than 8km from Castlebar. A good number of those 16 schools are as far, or further, from Castlebar than the school which ET is turning down. In Castlebar itself there are three Catholic schools.

nuac

How many were interested in Educate Together in the Castlebar areas?

nuac

On Pat Kenny now

naughto

It sounds like they want the school in Castlebar and no where else

6541

They make us Mayo people out to be fools ! I am not sure about this educate together movement, something does not sit well with me about them.

FrStone

Considering less than a handful of schools in the whole state had a majority of parents wanting to change patronage after the school patronage survey it's a bit of a farce that all these schools are being pushed through.

6541

I wonder is there something else going on, a different agenda.

Xenji

This is the building it is proposed to be in, not sure if this is an old picture or have they done work on it since it was taken.



http://www.thejournal.ie/primary-school-educate-together-2294731-Aug2015/

FrStone

Xenji wrote: »

This is the building it is proposed to be in, not sure if this is an old picture or have they done work on it since it was taken.



http://www.thejournal.ie/primary-school-educate-together-2294731-Aug2015/

Well they have gotten land and a building for free it was obvious some work would have to go into it... Even though it's the location that educate together are giving out about,so they obviously knew renovations would have to happen.

One wonders why they accepted the site and are only refusing it now

RMDrive

Where is that building located?

SwanV

Educate Together is state funded the same as any church patronage school. The Department of Education pay for the building, the resources, they also pay the staff.
I don't know what you mean by ' They got a free building and land'

Xenji

RMDrive wrote: »

Where is that building located?

It is the old Burren NS, it has been closed for the last 20 years or so.

RMDrive

Xenji wrote: »

It is the old Burren NS, it has been closed for the last 20 years or so.

Thanks. Is it out near the booster station?

Quadrature

The people of Castlebar or Mayo have nothing to do with this, so less of the feeling hard done by and playing the victim of media coverage!. The only decision makers in this are the Catholic Church and the Dept of Education.

It's the children of Castlebar who don't want a religious ethos education are being denied a proper public school and that reflects badly on the government, not the local community as there is no local authority or local democratic oversight of this in mayo.

It's the minister who should be handing their head in shame about this, not the people of Mayo who have no input into these decisions at all.

This is all down to a legacy of not having a modern public education system. It's as relevant an issue in Dublin or Cork cities as Castlebar or rural Mayo.

FrStone

SwanV wrote: »

Educate Together is state funded the same as any church patronage school. The Department of Education pay for the building, the resources, they also pay the staff.
I don't know what you mean by ' They got a free building and land'

Well generally, any church patronage school, would have paid for and owned the land the school is built on. Educate Together for land transferred to them, they didn't spend a penny.

SwanV

FrStone wrote: »

Well generally, any church patronage school, would have paid for and owned the land the school is built on. Educate Together for land transferred to them, they didn't spend a penny.

Historically yes. I'd say very few if any new school builds though. I'm sure this original school was moved to a lovely state funded new building.
Educate Together would never spend money , they are state funded. It's a state school.
The issue here was that the department initially said it was a temporary building to house the school.

nuac

FrStone wrote: »

Well generally, any church patronage school, would have paid for and owned the land the school is built on. Educate Together for land transferred to them, they didn't spend a penny.

There was a substantial local contribution to many national schools

Peregrinus

It's on the Windy Gap at Bofeenaun, about five miles north of Castlebar town.

Peregrinus

SwanV wrote: »

Historically yes. I'd say very few if any new school builds though. I'm sure this original school was moved to a lovely state funded new building.

No, it was closed, and the remaining pupils entered other schools.

SwanV wrote: »

Educate Together would never spend money , they are state funded. It's a state school.
The issue here was that the department initially said it was a temporary building to house the school.

As far as I know, they're still saying that. Most new schools open in temporary accommodation, moving to permanent accommodation when they are big enough. For obvious reasons, it takes at least seven years for a new primary school to reach it's "stable" size.

The issue, SFAIK, is not temporary vs. permanent; it's in Castlebar vs. outside Castlebar. ET is asking for the Dept to find them temporary accommodation in Castlebar. The Dept is saying no, we've got this building five miles out of town, we'll tart it up, that will do you for temporary accommodation. ET is saying that's not acceptable to parents.

Reading between the lines, a sufficient number of the pre-enrolled parents have said they won't put their children in the school if it's based here that the number of pupils actually attending the school will not be enough to make it viable. And the focus of the dissatisfaction seems to be the location of the building, not its condition.

StudentDad

This whole thing stinks of corruption and politics. 'Oh they want a school do they? Well we'll fix that. They can have a hole in the ground that we abandoned twenty years ago! Can't be giving parents a real choice now can we? We'd lose too much money if this notion really gets going. Then where would we be?'

The bald truth is that more and more parents want an education for their children that is not couched in any particular religious ethos.

The sooner this debacle is sorted the better.

SD

naughto

The smell of election off this is bad they have turned it down now but when an election is called it I'll be sorted out very quick to buy the votes. They could use the only town council building if they wanted to

Peregrinus

naughto wrote: »

The smell of election off this is bad they have turned it down now but when an election is called it I'll be sorted out very quick to buy the votes. They could use the only town council building if they wanted to

ET has said that suitable temporary accommodation alternatives are available in Castlebar town. They haven't, SFAIK, gone into detail about what premises they are thinking of, but that may be one of them.

Of course, the Town Council building doesn't belong to the Dept of Education; they would have to lease or buy it, plus do whatever was necessary to fit it out as a school premises. I suspect this comes down to money; the Dept of Ed reckon they can recondition the old Burren NS more cheaply than they can provide and fit out any suitable premises in Castlebar town.

(Providing premises for a primary school in an urban area isn't straightforward; a primary school has to have a playground, and a lot of otherwise suitable urban buildings don't have the necessary open space attached. I don't know whether the Town Council building does.)

Xenji

Cllr. Frank Durcan has raised an objection over the proposed Marsh House location with Bord Pleanála, citing 19 issues and deeming the school to be "Elitist".

Coillte_Bhoy

Xenji wrote: »

Cllr. Frank Durcan has raised an objection over the proposed Marsh House location with Bord Pleanála, citing 19 issues and deeming the school to be "Elitist".

He was on Matt Cooper show yesterday evening 'debating' the issue, came across as a bumbling incoherent out of touch idiot tbh, a total embarrassment. He has no idea what the concept of ET is.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

He was on Matt Cooper show yesterday evening 'debating' the issue, came across as a bumbling incoherent out of touch idiot tbh, a total embarrassment. He has no idea what the concept of ET is.

Heard that interview. Jesus he came across as a total clown. Was embarrassing to listen to.

voz es

Marsh house is no location for a school in my opinion. It is more suitable for a museum than a school.

Stheno

Jasmine Teeny Cabinetmaker wrote: »

Heard that interview. Jesus he came across as a total clown. Was embarrassing to listen to.

I'm not from Mayo but was listening and thought the same

nuac

From the traffic and parking POV Marsh House is an unsuitable and indeed dangerous place for a school.

voz es

It would be nice to see a 1798 museum in it.

lawred2

6541 wrote: »

They make us Mayo people out to be fools ! I am not sure about this educate together movement, something does not sit well with me about them.

It is Mayo people would would be going to this educate together..

They are not 'outsiders'

Arcade_Tryer

Peregrinus wrote: »

In Castlebar itself there are three Catholic schools.

I can think of 5 off the top of my head..

6541 wrote: »

They make us Mayo people out to be fools ! I am not sure about this educate together movement, something does not sit well with me about them.

Is there an award for most ironic post of the year?

Nice to Educate Together arriving in the West. Sadly too late for thousands and thousands. But nice all the same.

Ilovelucy

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

I can think of 5 off the top of my head..


Is there an award for most ironic post of the year?

Nice to Educate Together arriving in the West. Sadly too late for thousands and thousands. But nice all the same.

ET school in Ballina since last year.

Arcade_Tryer

Ilovelucy wrote: »

ET school in Ballina since last year.

Nobody really cares about Ballina though.

What I mean is, it will be more of a land mark when one opens in Castlebar.

nuac

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Nobody really cares about Ballina though.

What I mean is, it will be more of a land mark when one opens in Castlebar.

The Greeks may have had some word for the hubris of a county town!

Arcade_Tryer

nuac wrote: »

The Greeks may have had some word for the hubris of a county town!

In terms of Castlebar and Ballina? Logic.

happyoutscan

Durcan sounded like an absolute plank. Not that he would think that of course.

nuac

happyoutscan wrote: »

Durcan sounded like an absolute plank. Not that he would think that of course.

Altho he left FG about 40 years ago, in the various LEs he has got a good vote.

Probably a fundamental Catholic vote and a reaction to his relentless attacks and insinuations against officials/

I have disagreed with a lot of what he says, but do agree that Marsh House is a dangerous place for leaving and colllecting children

6541

how about this, Educate Together is as good or as bad as any religious schools. By its very existence it is anti-religious.
Exactly who is behind educate together and what is their agenda ?

lawred2

6541 wrote: »

how about this, Educate Together is as good or as bad as any religious schools. By its very existence it is anti-religious.
Exactly who is behind educate together and what is their agenda ?

It educates the children as to all religions..

So how is it anti-religious?

6541

lawred2 wrote: »

6541 wrote: »

how about this, Educate Together is as good or as bad as any religious schools. By its very existence it is anti-religious.
Exactly who is behind educate together and what is their agenda ?

It educates the children as to all religions..

So how is it anti-religious?

it seems to me that it is the yin to yang if you know what I meant. Its reason to exist is to be anti - religious and opposed to be religious. Again who are these people, and what is their agenda. I smell a rat here.

oscarBravo

6541 wrote: »

By its very existence it is anti-religious.

No, it's not. It's against the idea that state-funded education should require that children be indoctrinated in a particular religion - a laudable goal in what should be a secular republic.

lawred2

6541 wrote: »

it seems to me that it is the yin to yang if you know what I meant. Its reason to exist is to be anti - religious and opposed to be religious. Again who are these people, and what is their agenda. I smell a rat here.

what?

this is your own issue

oscarBravo

6541 wrote: »

Again who are these people...

https://www.educatetogether.ie/about/national-office-staff
https://www.educatetogether.ie/about/directors

...and what is their agenda.

https://www.educatetogether.ie/about/what-is-educate-together

I smell a rat here.

Why?

6541

oscarBravo wrote: »

6541 wrote: »

Again who are these people...

https://www.educatetogether.ie/about/national-office-staff
https://www.educatetogether.ie/about/directors

...and what is their agenda.

https://www.educatetogether.ie/about/what-is-educate-together

I smell a rat here.

Why?

I Don't mean to be negative, but they just don't sit well with me. Who appoints the school of governors ? Who are they answerable to. Its a bit like Knock airport, the way its owned by a trust. Who exactly is the trust ? Who oversee these people. What is there anti - Religious class. What is their ethos ? More questions then answers with these people.

lawred2

6541 wrote: »

I Don't mean to be negative, but they just don't sit well with me. Who appoints the school of governors ? Who are they answerable to. Its a bit like Knock airport, the way its owned by a trust. Who exactly is the trust ? Who oversee these people. What is there anti - Religious class. What is their ethos ? More questions then answers with these people.

What anti religion class are you referring to?

All the information you seek is freely available on the website.

Inform yourself first lest you start to look like an ignorant troll.

What Knock airport has to do with Educate Together is beyond me.

6541

lawred2 wrote: »

6541 wrote: »

I Don't mean to be negative, but they just don't sit well with me. Who appoints the school of governors ? Who are they answerable to. Its a bit like Knock airport, the way its owned by a trust. Who exactly is the trust ? Who oversee these people. What is there anti - Religious class. What is their ethos ? More questions then answers with these people.

What anti religion class are you referring to?

All the information you seek is freely available on the website.

Inform yourself first lest you start to look like an ignorant troll.

What Knock airport has to do with Educate Together is beyond me.

I just Know that I would not trust these people to educate my children. The whole thing smacks of a political movement as opposed to a genuine attempt to create secular schooling. If we decide to have secular schooling then this should be lead by the government. Not from a bunch of unelected , unknown, faceless people. Like Knock airport who is actually running this ?

oscarBravo

6541 wrote: »

I just Know that I would not trust these people to educate my children.

The good news is: you don't need to. You can trust the Catholic Church to educate your children instead (what could possibly go wrong?).

Now, look at the flip side: if you didn't (for some unfathomable reason) trust a religion to educate your children, and ET didn't exist, what choice would you have?

Choice is good. That's the point.

The whole thing smacks of a political movement as opposed to a genuine attempt to create secular schooling.

What would a "genuine attempt to create secular schooling" look like?

If we decide to have secular schooling then this should be lead by the government.

Not sure who "we" is, but lots of parents have decided to have secular schooling, and the government has singularly failed to provide it.

Basically, what you're arguing is that parents who want secular schooling should have it only when parents who don't want secular schooling agree to it. Which amounts to a veto by religious people over secular education. How is that a good thing?

Not from a bunch of unelected , unknown, faceless people.

You know there are names and faces on the pages I linked you to, right?

Like Knock airport who is actually running this ?

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/corporate_structure.aspx

There are names and faces on that page too, but you'll have to click on the link and look at the page to see them.

learn_more

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Nobody really cares about Ballina though.

What I mean is, it will be more of a land mark when one opens in Castlebar.

Sure, like the difference between Ballina and Castlebar is as wide as the difference between Manhattan and Kiltimagh.

6541 wrote: »

how about this, Educate Together is as good or as bad as any religious schools. By its very existence it is anti-religious.
Exactly who is behind educate together and what is their agenda ?

It's a bit early to talk about the goodness or badness of ET schools, since they have just arrived, in comparison to Catholic schools that have been around for an age.

What is your problem with ET schools having an agenda? Do Catholic schools not have an agenda?

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, it's not. It's against the idea that state-funded education should require that children be indoctrinated in a particular religion - a laudable goal in what should be a secular republic.

I don't even think we need to talk about indoctrination here. They will say they are not indoctrinating. Fine. ET, aren't indoctrinating either. What's the problem then : )

6541 wrote: »

I just Know that I would not trust these people to educate my children.

Mathematics, Languages, Science, are just a few of the subjects that are not concerned with religion. I don't know how you can judge in advance that the teachers are not capable of teaching said subject.

The whole thing smacks of a political movement as opposed to a genuine attempt to create secular schooling.

A political movement? I though the issue was with religious ethos in schools ? I never heard that Atheism was a political movement.

If we decide to have secular schooling then this should be lead by the government. Not from a bunch of unelected , unknown, faceless people.

I feel a but unsettled by this point of view, though not too surprised given your previous comments. To suggest that a majority should decide whether one should have options or not, sounds a bit dictatorial to me.

6541

mark my words - Scandal after scandal will befall this. Educate together are dodge.