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Educate Together refuse school

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    #2
    sm213
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭sm213


    Floody Boreland wrote: »
    Would you send your child there?

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0827/723822-schools/

    If its 8 km surely its only a 15 minute drive outside the town?
    Takes 9 mins to drive 4.2km in Dublin through normal traffic.
    Its not really that bad some people commute much further to get to an educate together.

    EDIT:
    Didn't see the video, the building is in some state more of an issue than the location I think. Would it not cost less to build a new one than renovate?


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    #3
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    I understand that the school was in need of some modernization, but I don't see why the location was an issue to be honest. Most start up schools don't get a new school straight off. Our school spent over 25 years in prefabs, not saying this should be acceptable, but for a year or two at least, until a school is fully up and running I would see no issue , tbh.


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    #4
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    sm213 wrote: »
    If its 8 km surely its only a 15 minute drive outside the town?
    Takes 9 mins to drive 4.2km in Dublin through normal traffic.
    Its not really that bad some people commute much further to get to an educate together.

    EDIT:
    Didn't see the video, the building is in some state more of an issue than the location I think. Would it not cost less to build a new one than renovate?

    its not a good idea to build a local school that has to be driven to. It should be walking distance of its natural catchment, no?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #5
    echo beach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭echo beach


    Off topic I know but even if a school is within walking distance most children are driven. Even when there a car park nearby many parents insist on parking dangerously as close to the gate as it is possible to get.


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    #6
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    silverharp wrote: »
    its not a good idea to build a local school that has to be driven to. It should be walking distance of its natural catchment, no?
    But how do you define a natural catchment for a school that isn't run on "parish" boundaries? Our school doesn't have a catchment area, for example.


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    #7
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    But how do you define a natural catchment for a school that isn't run on "parish" boundaries? Our school doesn't have a catchment area, for example.

    just based on population, if the majority of pupils are coming from a village /small town 8km away then shouldnt the schools be 8km closer?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #8
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    sm213 wrote: »
    If its 8 km surely its only a 15 minute drive outside the town?
    Takes 9 mins to drive 4.2km in Dublin through normal traffic.
    Its not really that bad some people commute much further to get to an educate together.

    EDIT:
    Didn't see the video, the building is in some state more of an issue than the location I think. Would it not cost less to build a new one than renovate?

    It is the building AND the location, surely? Even if it was refurbished, it would still be grim and forbidding. It would take a lot of work to bring it up to 2015 building and educational standards.

    Then the location; why should the children of the town have to travel 8k out of town to school when other children have a school IN the town? If people choose to live in a town, they should expect conveniences such as a nearby school. Ideally one kids can walk or cycle to. It's different for people who choose to live in the country.


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    #9
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    But how do you define a natural catchment for a school that isn't run on "parish" boundaries? Our school doesn't have a catchment area, for example.
    Common sense. If children live in a town, they aren't in the catchment area of a school 8k away in the country. :-)


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    #10
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    But my point is that many of the children will come from a distance away, it shouldn't be a deal breaker, as a start up. Once numbers increase, a new school would need to be built anyhow.


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    #11
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    But my point is that many of our children come from a distance away, it shouldn't be a deal breaker, as a start up. Once numbers increase, a new school would need to be built anyhow.

    I'm sure it wouldn't have been a deal breaker if the school had been suitable. But it's a kip. And would still be a kip even with a bit of refurbishing.

    But location matters. If the children are from the town, why on earth should they have to travel out to the country to go to school. Once the school was established out there, they would be stuck out there. If RC children can go to school in the town, why shove the other children out into the back of beyonds?


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    #12
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    8km is hardly the back of beyonds. If there is no school building in the town, what do you suggest? People wait for years for a site to be found and built on, what happens the children in the mean time? Your argument about RC children is a bit of a red herring, the RC schools already exist.


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    #13
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    I posted on another thread about this and frankly this whole issue stinks.

    Why should the parents of children who want an education for their kids free from any particular religious grouping have to schlep out into the middle of nowhere?

    It is in the middle of nowhere. In a place called the windy gap. Abandoned twenty years ago and left to rot.

    Are the established schools afraid that if the ET school idea takes off they'll lose numbers and as a consequence funding?

    I hope this mess gets sorted and fast.

    SD


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    #14
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    8km is hardly the back of beyonds. If there is no school building in the town, what do you suggest? People wait for years for a site to be found and built on? Your argument about RC children is a bit of a red herring, the RC schools already exist.

    Well, it is to a person living in the town. If you live in a town, you have a lifestyle that takes town life into account. You may not have a car, you have an expectation of your child having easy access to the nearest school. You shouldn't have to bring your child out to the country to go to school.

    If there's no school building in the town, build one. Make an extension to an existing school and let classes take place there until numbers increase, and then the extension can be handed over to the first school, for example.


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    #15
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    StudentDad wrote: »

    Are the established schools afraid that if the ET school idea takes off they'll lose numbers and as a consequence funding?

    I hope this mess gets sorted and fast.

    SD
    The "established schools " have nothing to do with it. They cannot veto a new school. The issue is a DES one.


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    #16
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    The "established schools " have nothing to do with it. They cannot veto a new school. The issue is a DES one.

    I'm sure that is the case. However, given the location of the proposed new ET school it smacks of deliberate marginalisation. 'Oh you can have a school alright, just not one within spitting distance of the 'established' schools.'

    SD


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    #17
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    katydid wrote: »

    If there's no school building in the town, build one. Make an extension to an existing school and let classes take place there until numbers increase, and then the extension can be handed over to the first school, for example.
    Unfortunately, schools don't just fall out of the sky overnight. We were in prefabs for close on 25 years, despite having over 400 pupils at the time.

    The DES is a slow moving animal, buildings take years to be approved, much less built. Surely the children who could have been in an ET school this year shouldn't have to wait that long.


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    #18
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    StudentDad wrote: »
    I'm sure that is the case. However, given the location of the proposed new ET school it smacks of deliberate marginalisation. 'Oh you can have a school alright, just not one within spitting distance of the 'established' schools.'

    SD
    But no-one is saying it is a permanent building, it's a stop gap, I think people don't understand how the DES works, they won't just build a new school overnight, surely that is obvious?


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    #19
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    But no-one is saying it is a permanent building, it's a stop gap, I think people don't understand how the DES works, they won't just build a new school overnight, surely that is obvious?

    If they move into that rat hole, they'll be left there.


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    #20
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Unfortunately, schools don't just fall out of the sky overnight. We were in prefabs for close on 25 years, despite having over 400 pupils at the time.

    The DES is a slow moving animal, buildings take years to be approved, much less built. Surely the children who could have been in an ET school this year shouldn't have to wait that long.

    They could put up a prefab in the yard of the existing school for a couple of years.

    At least it would be warm, dry and convenient.


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    #21
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,485 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Ok, I'm out now. I think some people want to see discrimination against ET, we have been through the new start up process and we didn't feel discriminated against, we just wished the DES would get off its official ass.


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    #22
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    But no-one is saying it is a permanent building, it's a stop gap, I think people don't understand how the DES works, they won't just build a new school overnight, surely that is obvious?

    Yeah, tell that to the parents with no car. Tell that to the parents who have a busy work day and have to juggle a busy life that they have to travel to a remote disused afterthought of a school premises to have their children educated.

    Temporary site or not. This feels like an to marginalise those who want a choice other than what is available.

    SD


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    #23
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    StudentDad wrote: »
    Yeah, tell that to the parents with no car. Tell that to the parents who have a busy work day and have to juggle a busy life that they have to travel to a remote disused afterthought of a school premises to have their children educated.

    Temporary site or not. This feels like a effort to marginalise those who want a choice other than what is available.

    SD

    School bus


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    #24
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    katydid wrote: »
    I'm sure it wouldn't have been a deal breaker if the school had been suitable. But it's a kip. And would still be a kip even with a bit of refurbishing.

    But location matters. If the children are from the town, why on earth should they have to travel out to the country to go to school. Once the school was established out there, they would be stuck out there. If RC children can go to school in the town, why shove the other children out into the back of beyonds?

    Seriously there are many message on this with the we live in town you can't expect us to go out a bit to the country the inhumanity. Grow up. It is not that remote

    In relation to the building it does loke a s#$th$e


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    #25
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    martingriff wrote: »
    School bus

    That makes it ok then? Great! They did that in south Africa during apartheid. Sending black kids to 'other' schools by bus. Coz you know they couldn't attend the local schools.

    This is about giving parents a viable, real choice. This abandoned, remote premises is not a real choice.

    SD


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    #26
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    martingriff wrote: »
    Seriously there are many message on this with the we live in town you can't expect us to go out a bit to the country the inhumanity. Grow up. It is not that remote

    In relation to the building it does loke a s#$th$e

    If you live in a town, it IS remote. People in a town have different lifestyles and expectations, that's just the way it is.

    There are schools in town. Other children don't have to go out to the country to go to school. It's discrimination against the Educate Together school to force them to do this, when they could put a prefab in an existing school for a few years, while they build a new school.


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    #27
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    StudentDad wrote: »
    That makes it ok then? Great! They did that in south Africa during apartheid. Sending black kids to 'other' schools by bus. Coz you know they couldn't attend the local schools.

    This is about giving parents a viable, real choice. This abandoned, remote premises is not a real choice.

    SD

    You are seriously trying to say this an the apartheid are comparable. people use school bussed all the time there is nothing wrong with having a school in the countryside. I went to one and guess what it was good. Lets cut to the chase what you are eluding to is the Chatholic church are trying to embarass you. Its out a bit in the country not in Timbukto. The inhumanity


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    #28
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    martingriff wrote: »
    School bus

    Why should they? The RC children aren't being bussed out of town.


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    #29
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    katydid wrote: »
    If you live in a town, it IS remote. People in a town have different lifestyles and expectations, that's just the way it is.

    There are schools in town. Other children don't have to go out to the country to go to school. It's discrimination against the Educate Together school to force them to do this, when they could put a prefab in an existing school for a few years, while they build a new school.

    Maybe they just can't just put a prefab in the area of another school. And in relation to expectations and lifestyle boohoo. I had to go to a school out in the countryside as did a lot of people I know. You are there to be educated not to enhance your lifestyle and expectations


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    #30
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    martingriff wrote: »
    You are seriously trying to say this an the apartheid are comparable. people use school bussed all the time there is nothing wrong with having a school in the countryside. I went to one and guess what it was good. Lets cut to the chase what you are eluding to is the Chatholic church are trying to embarass you. Its out a bit in the country not in Timbukto. The inhumanity

    Nothing wrong with a school bus if you live in the countryside and need to get to school.

    Lots wrong with a school bus if some children from a town are bussed out of town to a run down building in the country while other children can walk up the road to a nice modern building.


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    #31
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,730 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    katydid wrote: »
    Why should they? The RC children aren't being bussed out of town.


    Thats where there school is do you want the RC to be fecked out of there school give it to ye


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