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Whitepaper on Defence 2015

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It was like watching an episode of Yes Minster. Coveney was the perfect mouthpiece for the DOD, it was like Sir Humprey wrote the replys for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    According to the Business post it looks like Cathal Brughas days are numbered with as the LDA has it in its sights. With the white paper maybe we could see this style of old town/city barracks shut down across the country and 6 new modern bases with on base accomdation built at stategic locations.

    If the LDA are looking at cathal brugha you can be sure they are looking at all the other barrack locations. Besides these barracks where designed over 150 years a go for an army of occuption not a modern defence force



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    If they are, it’s not going to be long as well before they start looking at Baldonnel again, the Dublin councils have long wanted it. But sadly I doubt we’ll see modern barracks to replace them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Knock the old barracks first, the DF can rent one of the many empty warehouses the developers own on Dublin's outskirts.

    By the time they get around to building new ones, it will be realised the entire army, Air Corps and Navy now fit inside the walls of the barracks in Athlone. (with plenty of berthage outside for the 4 man small patrol craft the NS are left with.)


    Build the replacement first, then sell the old Barracks. The DF should learn the lessons of Closing Ballincollig, Fermoy, Kildare, Clonmel, Naas, Blaney, Monaghan, Longford Rockhill, Griffith, Clancy, etc.

    All closed.

    Units squashed into other barracks not always nearby.

    All sat idle for years before developers took them off OPW hands. Some still do. Did the DF gain much by selling the family silver? A few APCs we should have got anyway?

    Still no centralised large training area as promised in the 2001 white paper. (If you think the Glen is big, compare it to the similar sized Castlemartin in Wales, one of a number of smaller facilities used by the British (27km sq) when they aren't off using the plains of Alberta for training.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    @ Provision of a New Military Medical Facility for the Defence Forces at Casement Aerodrome, Baldonnel, Co. Dublin

    The above was in the budget today. Is this a replacement for st brickins or is it more like a GP surgery building?



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine



    The LDA wants St Bricin's and the DF wants a new medical facility. It will be a smaller building than St. Bricin's. What's being proposed is a primary care centre and some specialist medical care facilities which I believe is what goes on in St. Bricin's these days anyway. I know most specialist care is provided through the public and private healthcare systems but is there any inpatient care left there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭TXPTGR1


    Any chance they’d turn Finner into a golf course- looks like it would be a good one



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Well since 1) its an important security assest 2) its a new build by our standards and 3) you would have Mica standard protests if it closed i would say never going to happen



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Is there not enough fuggin golf courses here already/ The majority of green spaces in Dublin are golf courses!

    Fuck golf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If they are building that at casement i presume the the air corps wont be heading for shannon any day soon!. Like you mention about the lda after bricins they are also after cathal bruagha. I wonder could we see the mem and women in cathal bruagh rellocated to a new barracks within the casement grounds?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Is there not enough fuggin golf courses here already/ The majority of green spaces in Dublin are golf courses!

    Fuck golf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,876 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yeah look I mean talk of Shannon is just us spitballing, but who knows what the Commission might suggest about reorganisation and rationalisation under a unified force structure.

    Leaving all that aside though, Casement does seem like a very odd location for a largish medical centre. Its a tight enough site as it is, in terms of airside development potential for the future. Putting a completely superfluous facility on it, just because they own the land, seems ms very short-sighted.

    And also, its very inaccessible without a car, surely something could be developed on the site of either Dublin barracks or alongside an existing hospital, like Connolly for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Its good to see the 139s have being upgraded with Stealth technology. I was following one on abs exchange from Dublin to Just over the Border at clones when it disappeared!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,876 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Doesn't need to be stealthy to simply turn its transponder off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭Psychlops




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,776 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The tender process to appoint consultants for a new Military Medical Facility for the Defence Forces at Casement Aerodrome began last month. Here is the link for the architect tender;



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If the nasty LDA gets it hands on all the Defence forces assests in the Dublin Area, Would Thortan hall be a good location for a new modern built military base? It has some of the infastructure in place and is also in a good location for access to the M50. The best adavantage is the state owns it



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,876 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I can't see the DF giving up the two remaining a bases in the City and I can't really see the Government wanting to either.

    They provide a vital base of operations for security to the Government buildings and key installations, not to mention the ceremonial duties, military police and so on. Cathal Brugha Barracks also host the military archives.

    Besides, who knows where the World will be in a few years, having a secure base to deploy against civil unrest, operate helicopters and so on, may be needed.

    In any case, the requirement to get out of the aging Mountjoy Prison still persists. Whether Thornton Hall ever comes back into the conversation for that, who knows, but the LDA may get the opportunity to develop more than a few sites like Mountjoy in the next decade or two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The government in a heartbeat would level cathal bruagh and mckee for housing if they taught it would win votes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,876 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I disagree.

    In principle, yes, it's something they might do, but I don't think either delivers a big enough win to risk the consequences. Besides, it's Eamon Ryan that has brought it up a few times, FF and FG will probably knock it on the head out of spite for him.

    You need to look at the context too. McKee is not 300 metres from the O'Devaney Gardens site, which is already the subject of major local upset at the extent of high density and high rise planned for it. Major ongoing work at TUD Grangegorman is also just down the road. The burden of this intensification of development inside the M50 has to be seen to be spread more evenly or there are political fights to come that will lose them far more votes than it may win.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,329 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    No, McKee backs onto Garda HQ, and secures its future, for now. Though as AGS continues to run out of space in Dublin, whether the DF can keep it remains to be seen.

    I wouldn't be making any long term plans for Rathmines though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I can just see the lads in the park looking over the wall from there office in to mckee going jesus lads plenty of room to park the vans there while some inspector looking for promation can turn to the boss and say do you know the new station that where building thats to small how bot we take mckee instead!


    On cathal Brugha i am 110% certain its day are numbered as we know it



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