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Aer Lingus sued after child 'disfigured and scarred' by hot tea

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    #32
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #33
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    A storm in a tea cup.


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    #34
    percy212
    Registered Users Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭percy212


    If the child is being treated state side, the medical bills will be substantial. 75k doesn't go far in a hospital.


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    #35
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Victor wrote: »
    I wonder what temperature water would boil for the cabin pressure that was in the aircraft.

    If I'm correct, cabin pressure is kept at the equivalent of about 8,000 feet altitude, where water will boil at about 92 degrees C. So after a few minutes, it's going to be proportionately less than that.

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html

    You're not allowed bring science or common sense into this thread. Its against the "people suing for stupid reason" charter.


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    #36
    Toto Wolfcastle
    Registered Users Posts: 25,005 ✭✭✭✭Toto Wolfcastle


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    My son got scalded with a full pot of freshly made tea when he was four years old apart from covering the wound and putting cream on it for about a week there were no other issues after that. For a 10 year old and only a cup of tea iId say they are only looking for easy money.

    I was scalded badly with coffee as a toddler and I have pretty significant scarring as a result. I had to have skin grafts and I spent a few weeks in hospital. My scarring is actually in more visible places than the girl in question here, and I've never felt that I'm disfigured, but I suppose I can't speak for everybody. But when I was about 11 or 12 someone spilled a pot of boiling hot tea on my leg and apart from it being red for a couple of days you wouldn't know it had happened. It was treated with some cream as far as I can remember. Presumably my skin had matured at that stage. I didn't suffer from any mental anguish either. My parents bought me a sh1t load of sweets and I was happy.

    I'm not sure what kind of ongoing expensive treatment the girl is going to need. Once my skin grafts healed life went on. The most annoying thing was how my mother would lash entire bottles of sun cream on the scarring on holidays. I'd be interested to see how 'disfigured' she is, but personal responsibility has to come into this. I don't even like putting a soft drink in the cup holder on a place. It's not very stable. It's common sense.


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    #37
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    dutopia wrote: »
    Any marks left on skin at all?

    None, the burn was red for a few days after but quickly faded.


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    #38
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    duffman3833 wrote: »
    The parents of the girl have alleged that Aer Lingus failed to serve the tea "at a safe temperature" and failed to warn passengers of the "known dangers and the excessive and unreasonable temperature of the hot tea".

    We'll all know who to thank when our hot beverages come with a bored and automated mini lecture from the air stewards in future.

    Incidentally, I've just taken several Aer Lingus flights in the past few weeks. The water for the hot beverages is poured from a jug shaped vacuum flask, it's not poured from the kettle or boiler that was used to heat it, so factor that in when you're calculating the potential temperature.


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    #39
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    It happened before

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/child-scalded-by-tea-on-aer-lingus-flight-awarded-7k-in-damages-26874294.html


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    #40
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    I thought water boiled below 90 degrees in the low pressure environments of aircraft cabins.
    So even less hot than a normal cup of "hot tea".


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    #41
    Boxman
    Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Boxman


    I wonder what Jackie Chiles would make of it???


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ifgj8WXp8w


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    #42
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,237 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    seamus wrote: »
    Well there's the famous case of the McDonald's woman who successfully sued after she was burned by coffee served at something insane like 90 degrees.

    I would tend to agree that the tea/coffee you get on a flight seems exceptionally hot given the fact that it could be spilled by turbulence at any time. But personal responsibility has to come into play.

    I guess you could reasonably argue that a 10 year old wouldn't have the foresight to consider that the tea might spill.

    The relatively low sum of $75,000 rather than multiple millions suggests to me that it might be pretty legitimate, and the parents are mainly just looking to recoup medical costs.
    http://www.hotcoffeethemovie.com/Default.asp

    The McDonalds case is often misrepresented. The woman in question actually suffered extensive and pretty horrible burns. If you have the stomach For some medical imagery, the documentary is on Netflix. There are plenty of frivolous lawsuits that could have become the poster child for ambulance chasers. That one really was pretty nasty though.


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    #43
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Paulw wrote: »
    Milk on flights is UHT milk, so is not cold, so would not help cool it.

    While milk is uht, this does not determine it's temperature, it could be chilled, at ambient or even the same temperature as the tea, though I doubt it'd be heated...

    If it was at room temp lets say 20 deg and the tea was made wit water that boiled at say 90 degrees in a low pressure cabin, there's 70 degrees temp difference and so would cool the tea.


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    #44
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #45
    col.in.Cr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 511 ✭✭✭col.in.Cr


    It says she ordered a hot tea and she was given a hot tea,whats the issue?


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    #46
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    col.in.Cr wrote: »
    It says she ordered a hot tea and she was given a hot tea,whats the issue?

    Since when do 10 year olds drink tea, I know people in their 20's that never drank tea in their life.


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    #47
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Since when do 10 year olds drink tea, I know people in their 20's that never drank tea in their life.

    Really?


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    #48
    thegreatgonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭thegreatgonzo


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Since when do 10 year olds drink tea,

    I used to get it in a bottle when I was a toddler:D


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    #49
    duffman3833
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭duffman3833


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Since when do 10 year olds drink tea, I know people in their 20's that never drank tea in their life.

    my granny always made me tea when the kettle was on when i was bout that age, it is common


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    #50
    thegreatgonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭thegreatgonzo


    duffman3833 wrote: »
    my granny always made me tea when the kettle was on when i was bout that age, it is common

    Ha I just remembered that for my eleventh birthday I was given an electric kettle so I could make my own tea whenever I wanted without using the gas cooker :D


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    #51
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    thegreatgonzo wrote: »
    I used to get it in a bottle when I was a toddler:D

    Same here. Been drinking tea for as long as I can remember.


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    #52
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Since when do 10 year olds drink tea, I know people in their 20's that never drank tea in their life.

    don't be daft - what else are they going to drink on their teabreak



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    #53
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Since when do 10 year olds drink tea, I know people in their 20's that never drank tea in their life.

    My 2yr old drinks tea. I don't think the age of tea drinking is the issue, it's more the heat (although hot tea was ordered and hot tea is what was given), and then the spillage.


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    #54
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Paulw wrote: »
    My 2yr old drinks tea. I don't think the age of tea drinking is the issue, it's more the heat (although hot tea was ordered and hot tea is what was given), and then the spillage.

    True but they could hardly order hot milk or coke.


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    #55
    on_my_oe
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭on_my_oe



    The court filing said the flight attendant placed the tea in a cup holder on the girl's tray.

    However, a few minutes later the cup of tea "came out of the cup holder and came off the tray" pouring out on the girl.

    I think it will be asked what type of tea holder was used and whether it was suitable for purpose, with emphasis on the operating environment ie was the design of the tea holder suitable for turbulence etc If not, could it be argued that flight turbulence was foreseeable?


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    #56
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    It happened before

    http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/child-scalded-by-tea-on-aer-lingus-flight-awarded-7k-in-damages-26874294.html

    I found that interesting from several perspectives ...

    it was the flight attendant who spilled the tea apparently

    the child was less than 5 years old and presumably more susceptible to scalding than a ten year old

    the child received medical attention on the plane

    the award was €7K not €75K


    Given the differences in the cases it is difficult to see how this present claim could be sustained (but US courts are different).


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    #57
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    on_my_oe wrote: »
    If not, could it be argued that flight turbulence was foreseeable?
    Turbulence is foreseeable, but not directly predictable - it is more likely in certain weather conditions, but picking the exact moment it will happen is not possible.


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    #58
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    duffman3833 wrote: »
    The girl was described in court documents as "a successful amateur competitive surfer".
    How successful was she, or did her winnings not cover the cost of the flights, accommodation, etc?
    duffman3833 wrote: »
    However, a few minutes later the cup of tea "came out of the cup holder and came off the tray" pouring out on the girl.
    How does a cup of tea come out of the cup holder? Was there turbulance, or did it do so out of it's own accord?


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    #59
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    the_syco wrote: »
    How does a cup of tea come out of the cup holder? Was there turbulance, or did it do so out of it's own accord?

    The cup holders on most planes I've seen are 5mm depressions on a flat tray, which is just above knee height.
    easily knocked by accident/turbulence


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    #60
    dats_right
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭dats_right


    This sounds like a case where strict liability will apply pursuant to the Montreal Convention. As such the normal rules of negligence have no application as the injury occurred aboard a commercial aircraft.


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    #61
    Chimichangas
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭Chimichangas


    A lot of comments on how this must be just golddigging attempt, but not necessarily so.
    A burn from anything hot can hurt and scar, and only the victim and/or medical experts can truly say how bad it is. I hope the court gets it right though. 75k seems excessive, but who knows what the facts are with sensationalist tabloid journalism.
    Boskowski wrote: »
    All it takes is a judge with half a brain to throw the case out and process costs to the claimant. That would end that kind of nonsense.

    The neck of it. Permanent disfigurement. From a cup of tea. Parents should be tarred and feathered. Times being what they are I predict they're going to get money though.
    depending on how hot the tea was and no amount of guesswork from anyone here is going to decide whether the child got burnt badly or not. Would prefer to see the evidence.
    Sam Kade wrote: »
    My son got scalded with a full pot of freshly made tea when he was four years old apart from covering the wound and putting cream on it for about a week there were no other issues after that. For a 10 year old and only a cup of tea iId say they are only looking for easy money.
    And I know of someone who still has the scarring froma freshly made cup of tea many, many years later...??
    Your son was lucky. But who is to say the situation is the same as this? Obviously a different pot of tea at a different temperature, and who knows how many other different circumstances...
    Sam Kade wrote: »
    None, the burn was red for a few days after but quickly faded.
    Doesnt sound like a serious burn thankfully. Though at 4 i would say it was terrifying.
    Yes very lucky.


    For this case I would like to see or hear the medical evidence, and what caused this burn to be so bad. Especially what treatment was given on the plane, and how fast was it. Does seem a bit much for a 10yr old to need continuous medical treatment but then I havent heard all the evidence..


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