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Trams in Galway?

  • 26-08-2015 12:45am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3 IrishLad69


    Any news On Gluas in Galway? Heard about it once the last day on the radio heard nothing in ages after, I personally think we should get one because all the money the government get is pumped up into Dublin anyone who goes up there can see All the money is spent in Dublin . Gluas would be a great idea and no the town isn't to small for one.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Robbo


    The latest is that the company who were promoting it still haven't built anything that sees day-to-day operation. Anywhere. Their most famous achievement is a mobile rotisserie in what looks like a cheaply converted bingo bus.

    Their claim (often repeated by councillors who know they'll never be pulled up on their bull****) that it 21km or so can be constructed on the cheap (variously put at between €200 and €600 million) is nonsense. A realistic comparison would be the current Luas extension, which is budgeted at €61 million per kilometre and has certain benefits like being able to use part of an existing railway alignment for a part. So you're looking at a total cost of €1.2 billion if the initial Crayola map is to be adhered to.

    Various other bull**** floated in the papers has been that "high net worth individuals" (read the Comers) and the "European Central Bank" are being approached to fund it are similarly fantastical, even if one were to pretend that this was something the the ECB actually did.

    Giving the local hacks and Europhobe pothole fixers on the Council the benefit of the doubt and we'll assume it's the European Investment Bank they mean, we're still miles off. They've financed the Luas extension to the tune of €150 million because they'll have it back exactly as planned with a proven operation.

    It's a rampant cliché these days to resort to the Simpson's monorail episode in relation to this but it holds true every time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 438 ✭✭ Crumbs868


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Any news On Gluas in Galway? Heard about it once the last day on the radio heard nothing in ages after, I personally think we should get one because all the money the government get is pumped up into Dublin anyone who goes up there can see All the money is spent in Dublin . Gluas would be a great idea and no the town isn't to small for one.

    That's a terrible justification for investing in something and should not come into it. Projects(throughout Ireland) need to be reviewed on their own merits and not just throw Galway x because Dublin gets y


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    As my father says "Whenever you try to do something in Ireland a committee immediately forms to try and stop you, and lots of people tell you why it can't be done".


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 IrishLad69


    Crumbs868 wrote: »
    That's a terrible justification for investing in something and should not come into it. Projects(throughout Ireland) need to be reviewed on their own merits and not just throw Galway x because Dublin gets y.

    No not "throughout" Ireland only should be in Galway , Cork and Dublin All the rest of the counties and to small


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,961 ✭✭✭✭ boneyarsebogman


    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small. Here's a crazy idea - why don't they invest that money into improving the public transport already in existence or, I dunno, knock down the current Bus Eireann station and build a completely modern one, which is actually geared towards a steadily expanding city.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small.

    The irish response to public transport: "Sure, its only 20/30/40 minutes of a walk".

    Here's a crazy idea - why don't they invest that money into improving the public transport already in existence

    This is them trying to improve public transport
    or, I dunno, knock down the current Bus Eireann station and build a completely modern one, which is actually geared towards a steadily expanding city.

    I was there a few weeks ago. Both the rail and bus station really are decrepit. Its a bad day in show business when Athlone has a nicer anything to Galway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭ flazio


    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small. .
    If you are fit and healthy and able bodied perhaps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,961 ✭✭✭✭ boneyarsebogman


    But it's a completely pointless addition, when we have a small population and, yes, the walking distance matters. Dublin needed the LUAS, Galway doesn't need one at all. Instead of investing in it, create more buses and bus routes. Have more stations for city bikes.

    The bus station is an absolute joke, especially compared to the one that GoBus, Citylink, and other tour operators use.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    But it's a completely pointless addition, when we have a small population and, yes, the walking distance matters. Dublin needed the LUAS, Galway doesn't need one at all. Instead of investing in it, create more buses and bus routes. Have more stations for city bikes.

    The bus station is an absolute joke, especially compared to the one that GoBus, Citylink, and other tour operators use.

    Create more buses and spend more time in lockjam. Capital idea.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,961 ✭✭✭✭ boneyarsebogman


    syklops wrote: »
    Create more buses and spend more time in lockjam. Capital idea.

    More buses, improved services, and more frequency surely would see a reduction in cars being used. So less time in lockjam. Capital idea!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    More buses, improved services, and more frequency surely would see a reduction in cars being used. So less time in lockjam. Capital idea!

    This is the problem with the thinking. Between building the absolutely feckin brilliant transport system, to enough people using it that it makes a visible improvement on traffic is several years if not a decade. 10 years of naysayers saying "They shouldnt have built it. Sure we are too small".


  • Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭ buzz11


    Before wasting money on Gluas, give us buses every 15 mins and overhaul the routes.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    I agree on that we need a tram line or two. This would decrease the load on buses, be on time and could even be a tourist attraction by itself if the cars were "quaint".

    melbourne_tram_car.jpg

    First line from Salthill Prom's end to the Square and beyond to GMIT.



    It will never be called "Gluas" :mad: How about we stop copy everything the dubs do and do our own thing instead. Thank you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭ Red_Wake


    Nonsense, more bike stations would be better, and investment in bus routes and frequency would also be more cost efficient.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    Feckin bike stations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,961 ✭✭✭✭ boneyarsebogman


    syklops wrote: »
    This is the problem with the thinking. Between building the absolutely feckin brilliant transport system, to enough people using it that it makes a visible improvement on traffic is several years if not a decade. 10 years of naysayers saying "They shouldnt have built it. Sure we are too small".

    Yes, but how long would it take to build the tracks? Have you been in Dublin since they've started the new Luas lines? Traffic is more or less to a standstill, with many roads being made one way. Can you imagine the chaos that a city-wide development will cause?

    And according to your logic, having more buses would cause more lockjam, not less, so what difference would having a light rail system make, if people are still going to use their cars?

    The point I'm making is instead of creating a system that will achieve nothing, we should instead invest in the already existing system and improve the roads. Create more bypasses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    Create more bypasses? What, bypass Galway?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 Links234


    syklops wrote: »
    Create more buses and spend more time in lockjam. Capital idea.

    The only way additional buses would create more traffic is if people refused to use public transportation, and if people refuse to use public transport... then why are we talking about creating more public transport?
    The irish response to public transport: "Sure, its only 20/30/40 minutes of a walk".

    I think Boney's point was to illustrate that we are a very small city, not that "Sure just walk it!" is a reasonable position. Though a lot of areas are indeed a walkable distance, because Galway is small. We're very small, we're a tiny city, we are miniscule in the grand scheme of things, we're a tiny, tiny thing. The point is, we don't have the population to support, or require in the first place, a light rail system.

    I sometimes get the sense that people want a "Gluas" just so they can say, look, we're as good as Dublin, hah! That it's more of a prestige thing than an actual need for one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 Iwannahurl


    buzz11 wrote: »
    Before wasting money on Gluas, give us buses every 15 mins and overhaul the routes.

    Every ten minutes, reliably, on key routes.

    I'm not an advocate of light rail, but neither am I an opponent. I haven't studied the issues in the necessary depth, but I believe the main proponents are sincere in their ambitions. There is no harm in being ambitious, especially in a small city blighted by decades of backward and irrational traffic and transportation "planning". Apparently there are 50 or so cities of similar size throughout Europe with a light rail system.

    Why not here?

    Maybe expense is the biggest barrier. Ireland is country where the prime minister is reportedly paid more than POTUS, and where it costs €133,000 per kilometre to cut back grass verges and paint a white line along a 3 km footpath.

    However, it makes no sense to me to go for light rail without a major overhaul of bus services first. The last thing we need is yet another two-tier system: a glitzy light rail route hoovering up passengers from sub-standard bus services. And if we can't manage existing bus services properly, how can we hope to operate light rail in addition?

    I know the LR advocates will argue that it's not either/or, but you have to start improving public transport somewhere, so let's start with developing a high-quality bus service. I'd love to see at least one Bus Rapid Transit sevice in Galway, or if that's not possible (or necessary for the population size) then some high quality variation thereof.

    biko wrote: »
    I agree on that we need a tram line or two. This would decrease the load on buses, be on time and could even be a tourist attraction by itself if the cars were "quaint".

    Galway used to have a tram service, when the population was smaller. It ran more frequently, and I'll bet more reliably, than the current bus service.

    Quaint rolling stock would be a major tourist attraction, but imo one of the strong arguments in favour of light rail is that high quality rolling stock (as a core part of a high quality service) is needed to attract commuters out of their cars and onto public transport. There is a belief that public transport is for "the great unwashed" which is why a high Level of Service is needed to encourage modal switch.

    I believe that Luas, for example, attracted passengers from Dublin Bus. What's needed is much higher numbers overall using public transport. A light rail system should not owe its success to a reduction in the use of existing bus services.

    Incidentally, lest anyone try to claim that weather is a major barrier to anything transport-related in Galway, it isn't:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90532385&postcount=399

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95973516&postcount=430


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭ doolox


    I lived there for 35 yrs and it seemed to rain all the time. I couldn't wait to get a car and avoid the near daily morning soaking on my way to school,college and work. Getting to my workplace dry and warm was such a luxury.

    I am sure many people in the City of the tribes have figured this out and workplace parking is seen as a vital thing to have.

    The public transport people need to provide sheltered bus stops etc at more frequent intervals in order to entice people from their cars.

    The scattered nature of workplaces in Galway seems to militate against mass transport as the population densities are too low to allow for profitable public transport if discussing projects in the €1bln mark for a city of about 100,000.

    What could probably work is dedicated bus lanes with no physical possibilty of they being used by cars or other general traffic etc. This would reduce the need for rail construction and prevent use by cars by use of bollards etc and only allow busses to run on them with restricted access at a central depot etc.

    Shop St already has retractable bollards on the pedestianised areas of the city. Something similar could be adopted to allow only busses on certain dedicated roads and stop private cars entering the lane.

    If someone wanted to collect a heavy purchase it might be possible to offer permits to enter the restricted lane on a once off basis etc. The aim would be to reduce traffic on these lanes as close to zero as possible and allow the busses a free run on their journeys.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,778 ✭✭✭✭ Braelyn Miniature Zephyr


    The bypass is a far better and cheaper use of funding and will benefit far more people than any tramline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ dinneenp


    I think it's obvious- buy a lot more buses, make some dedicated bus lanes (within certain hours), build new roads if needed- this would surely have to be done for GLUAS. Have them frequent, punctual and on the same route the GLUAS would go. You can get a lot more buses for cheaper.
    I think part of the attraction of a light rail system is that it makes a city/town look modern.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,843 ✭✭✭✭ Fitz*


    An actual reliable bus service would be much more effective.

    More bus shelters too. There is none at the end of the 405 which is a joke as many people commute using this stop, and often end up waiting in the rain for the bus to arrive, instead using a tree as shelter.

    Shelters should be provided really, especially in a city with such rainfall as Galway. I've lost count of the days since I had a bus show up on time on my journey home from work. The bus service here is a joke. It's like the only route that they care about is the 490 - the rest are just for show.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 IrishLad69


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    Nonsense, more bike stations would be better, and investment in bus routes and frequency would also be more cost efficient.

    Them bike stations are the biggest load of sh*it ever put into this town.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,074 pmasterson95


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Them bike stations are the biggest load of sh*it ever put into this town.

    Tbf it shut up some of the more vocal whiners so it probably got them some peace for a few days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    FitzShane wrote: »
    More bus shelters too. There is none at the end of the 405 which is a joke as many people commute using this stop, and often end up waiting in the rain for the bus to arrive, instead using a tree as shelter.

    Shelters should be provided really, especially in a city with such rainfall as Galway. I've lost count of the days since I had a bus show up on time on my journey home from work. The bus service here is a joke. It's like the only route that they care about is the 409 - the rest are just for show.

    True - it also benefits people walking or cycling in the City; can nip in to avoid the worst of the rain showers. Today has been a prime example of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,806 ✭✭✭ Mervyn Skidmore


    IrishLad69 wrote: »
    Them bike stations are the biggest load of sh*it ever put into this town.

    I think I can count the number of people I've seen using them on one hand. Whoever designed that scheme needs their head checked. Would be great if there were stations spread out over the city instead of being a 30 second walk apart all in the city centre. Why no stations in Knocknacarra, Salthill, Wellpark, Ballybane, Renmore, Mervue etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,970 ✭✭✭✭ syklops


    FitzShane wrote: »
    An actual reliable bus service would be much more effective.

    Easier said than done. In Dublin the only reliable transport options are the Luas and the Dart. I get let down by the bus anytime I try to use it.
    More bus shelters too. There is none at the end of the 405 which is a joke as many people commute using this stop, and often end up waiting in the rain for the bus to arrive, instead using a tree as shelter.

    Shelters should be provided really, especially in a city with such rainfall as Galway. I've lost count of the days since I had a bus show up on time on my journey home from work. The bus service here is a joke. It's like the only route that they care about is the 490 - the rest are just for show.

    Bus shelters which sheltered you from the wind and the rain would be nice. It would make the bus being late sting slightly less sharply.

    Also, timetables which stated the approximate time the bus would arrive at that bus stop. Not timetables which state when the bus leaves the depot meaning you have to guesstimate yourself when the bus is due.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ the untitled user


    When you can walk from Renmore to Salthill in under an hour, then you know Galway is too small. Here's a crazy idea - why don't they invest that money into improving the public transport already in existence or, I dunno, knock down the current Bus Eireann station and build a completely modern one, which is actually geared towards a steadily expanding city.

    In many respects Galways probably the ideal size city for a tram/light rail system. Low population density should make the acquisition of land relatively cheap yet development has been relatively centralized along the east west axis making a single line perfectly viable.

    Not to mention the university means the city has quite a disproportionately large young demographic for whom car ownersip will never be feasible. And even with the recession the overall population still seems to be growing at a considerable rate (it'll probably top the 100,000 mark within 20 years if current rates continue).
    The bypass is a far better and cheaper use of funding and will benefit far more people than any tramline.

    It's a question of the estimated population growth. You can't really say with full certainty that will still be the case in 20-30 years time. Not to mention you can't really quantity the adverse affects of excessive car reliance such as higher commute times (bad for health and productivity), pollution levels and urban sprawl it tends to encourage over time but they are very very real.

    One of the things a light rail system has going for it is that it facilitates much higher density living, which in turn makes it easier to both plan the future development of the city and at the same time making it cheaper to provide infrastructure, services and facilities to the population. So it brings a number of long term positive benefits to urban planning that a bypass wouldn't.

    I think it's definitely worth considering.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    The bypass is a far better and cheaper use of funding and will benefit far more people than any tramline.

    How is €500,000,000 -> €750,000,000 i.e proposed cost of the City Expressway a "cheaper" use of funding?
    Or are you going to toll it for a 25/30 years to get the money back - PPP style?


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