will/would you encourage your kids to become farmers?

whelan2

Another post got me thinking, my eldest lad is 14 loves farming, now he is in no way tied to the farm goes off with his friends most days . He was telling me of a lad in 5th year leaving school this year to go home and farm, he said he thinks its madness, he will have no leaving cert to fall back on if things go wrong. So will or would you encourage them to go farming??

umop apisdn

Yes, if they like it, but get some sort of education / side trade as well. Why not be a well educated and travelled Farmer ? These things are not mutally exclusive.
Education and travel is cheap and accessable these days compared to years ago, and will round them off far better. Make the most of the opportuinites the older generation never had. When you settle down, farming full time or part time is a great life for those with the right attitude. If you're doing anything just for the money, you shouldn't be in it, you're doing yourself no favours. Own boss, healthy outdoor work, and less people to deal with, and no other form of self employment or industry gets anywhere as near as many subs and handouts and grants. The only thing that spoils farming is the whiners.

mahoney_j

Neither encourage nor dismiss it .give them the option .definetly good education first and travel a bit to broaden the mind and gain life experience .after 6 generations though I'd hate to break the chain though .

WheatenBriar

I will actively discourage it but won't put any obstacles in the way if thats what they want when they've weighed everything up

agriman27

Definitely yes, because I need some help :pac:. But on a more serious note I would like to see the farm being worked and continued on after my time, so I would encourage them to be involved.

Greengrass1

I wasn't encouraged into it but was asked when parents bought here was I interested in farming .
I know only a chap at the time :rollyeyes:
I wouldn't discourage anyone from farming.

selectamatic

A young fella will know himself whether he'll return to farming or not and generally no one ends up farming if they didn't want to do it in the first place. A good break away from farming from about 19 to 28 is what's best for most gives them time to get out see the world get a 3rd level education and so on then when they've done all that and they still want to return to a bit of farming then you'll know they're serious about it. And 9 times outta 10 they'll stick at it for the rest of their lives.

mahoney_j

selectamatic wrote: »

A young fella will know himself whether he'll return to farming or not and generally no one ends up farming if they didn't want to do it in the first place. A good break away from farming from about 19 to 28 is what's best for most gives them time to get out see the world get a 3rd level education and so on then when they've done all that and they still want to return to a bit of farming then you'll know they're serious about it. And 9 times outta 10 they'll stick at it for the rest of their lives.

100% on the money

KatW4

If we have kids, my boyfriend wants them to farm with him, like he does with his dad. He dropped out of school in 5th year to work on the farm. I would prefer them to finish their education first and then decide. We have a good few years before we have to think about though !

_Brian

Two girls here.
One not keen on animals at all.

One is mad about all animals.
Think I'd encourage her to vetonary or vetonary nursing or assistant if she keeps the interest.

whelan2

_Brian wrote: »

Two girls here.
One not keen on animals at all.

One is mad about all animals.
Think I'd encourage her to vetonary or vetonary nursing or assistant if she keeps the interest.

a vet is a very tough job, think it would be much harder than farming (maybe i'm wrong)

umop apisdn

whelan2 wrote: »

a vet is a very tough job, think it would be much harder than farming (maybe i'm wrong)

Combined with a lot of farmers with a chip on their shoulder, looking down their noses at vets and constantly running them down behind their backs, I'd agree, a farm vet is no job for anyone.

Kevhog1988

_Brian wrote: »

Two girls here.
One not keen on animals at all.

One is mad about all animals.
Think I'd encourage her to vetonary or vetonary nursing or assistant if she keeps the interest.

My best friends youngest sister is studying to be a vet. Its a serious amount of work just to get into college

Bullocks

Eldest lad is 10 amd wants to leave school now to be a farm contractor :rolleyes:
Youngest is 4 and wants to be a doctor so he can work with his mommy in the hospital and buy her lunch everyday .
I'm 31 and still don't know what I'd really like to be !
Who knows if they really will want to farm when they're older and I won't push them either way but i think they wouldn't be long getting sick of the hours and pay from farming so would prefer if they chose a handier path in life .
BUT if they do choose to go farming I'll make it my business to rustle up enough to rent them a decent bit of land up the country and help them set it up , then let the off to make their own decisions and be the captain of their own ship . I see enough young people crowded into decisions and ways of farming by older generations thats holding them back untill they're in their 50's and too late to make a right burst by themselves

umop apisdn

Bullocks wrote: »

but i think they wouldn't be long getting sick of the hours and pay from farming so would prefer if they chose a handier path in life .

There's no such thing as a 'handier' path in life. Making a success of anything or any job, particularly self employment, involves hard work, on or off a farm. That's why, in my opinion, young people need a bit of education and travel in the real world, before they choose, or don't choose, to settle on a farm, and to realise that myth if nothing else.

CHOPS01

Often think to myself why I wasn't encouraged more to go farming. Parents always knew I enjoyed it but probably knew at the time that the place was to fragmented to make a viable career from it.
Suppose having not being tied to it but always helping out has given me the love for it now.
Told the other day I was getting the home place with the 2 outside plots to be sold and split between my 3 siblings.
Would love if my young lad grows up to have an appreciation for the land but there will be no pressure.

frazzledhome

I won't encourage or indeed actively discourage kids from farming. I'll educate as well as I can, I will encourage to see the world and meet the dogs and devils along the way.

Even if one or two of them decide to farm I'd encourage them to see the world and farm elsewhere for a while. I hope that if they do I won't be too old and set in my ways to stand in their way when they start farming.

If none want to farm that's grand with me. I hope never to retire but would be very open to bringing in a younger person as an equity partner.

KatyMac

Two girls here and up to this year I'd have said that neither of them would be interested at all, but the oldest suddenly became my shadow - wanting to know how you'd know if an animal was sick/calling or whatever. The first day she spotted a cow she was made up and now tells everyone that she got that particular animal pregnant! Will probably sleep with her when she comes close to calving next year!!
Anyway she has done Leaving and got a place in college so we will see if the farming interest evaporates.

Kevhog1988

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Often think to myself why I wasn't encouraged more to go farming. Parents always knew I enjoyed it but probably knew at the time that the place was to fragmented to make a viable career from it.
Suppose having not being tied to it but always helping out has given me the love for it now.
Told the other day I was getting the home place with the 2 outside plots to be sold and split between my 3 siblings.
Would love if my young lad grows up to have an appreciation for the land but there will be no pressure.

id often think its something thats in the blood?

Bullocks

umop apisdn wrote: »

There's no such thing as a 'handier' path in life. Making a success of anything or any job, particularly self employment, involves hard work, on or off a farm. That's why, in my opinion, young people need a bit of education and travel in the real world, before they choose, or don't choose, to settle on a farm, and to realise that myth if nothing else.

Of course there is . I do know that to succeed at anything hard work is necessary and i know that probably better than others but from farming and working in the buildings long enough to know that one is easier to achieve , gives more home time and more money .
I said handier not piss easy !

larrymiller

I must say myself my parents never encouraged or disemcouraged me towards the farm. They never said a word when I moved away and didn't have much to do with the place. Then i lost my job came home to help in the harvest and a few odd jobs.
About 2 weeks later I moved home in a Friday and went to the mart Saturday and bought a few calves and they can't get rid of me since.
The aul lad was delighted tough I could see it in him that he was thrilled.
To be fair I think I'll do the exact same when I come to it.

Miname

IL let them decide themselves. I hope they enjoy the hardship of farming as much as myself and I know il be bringing them with me ( herself is away on a hen and il be doing the jobs in the morning with an eight month old and a nappy bag hanging off me). Farming Instills a great work ethic and appreciation of nature that will be found nowhere else.

patsy_mccabe

Farmer Pudsey

Unless you have 200 acres of good land to give them full time farming is not really viable. A goodish job and part time farming gives you a good lifestyle. A 100 acre drystock farms can be run on 20 hours a week if you use contractors judiciously. Even with dairying you need scale so that you can afford to hire milkers to have time off for life quality.

I would actively encourage my children to have a business with a job because of the nature of the Irish Tax system. The Irish tax system is regressive on PAYE tax payers. It is very hard to create wealth within the PAYE system.

farmerval

I gave a small bit of time in Agri machinary sales, most shocking thing I saw was how bad the relationship between fathers and sons were, lot's of places the son was only a skivvy with daddy calling the shots, and sonny in his 30's!!
Really think potential farmers need considerable time outside the home farm at least if not indeed outside agriculture before deciding their future.

darragh_haven

farmerval wrote: »

I gave a small bit of time in Agri machinary sales, most shocking thing I saw was how bad the relationship between fathers and sons were, lot's of places the son was only a skivvy with daddy calling the shots, and sonny in his 30's!!
Really think potential farmers need considerable time outside the home farm at least if not indeed outside agriculture before deciding their future.

It's as if your talking about me.

I would fully back any son or daughter of mine going farming after they were fully educated and had done a year (minimum) working on some other persons farm

Kevhog1988

farmerval wrote: »

I gave a small bit of time in Agri machinary sales, most shocking thing I saw was how bad the relationship between fathers and sons were, lot's of places the son was only a skivvy with daddy calling the shots, and sonny in his 30's!!
Really think potential farmers need considerable time outside the home farm at least if not indeed outside agriculture before deciding their future.

there is a family beside us , father still calling the shots at close to 70. one son ****ed off foreign to farm and other chap is driving a lorry full time and trying to farm in the evening. its madness tbh. son is too old to do anything now at this stage.

umop apisdn

Miname wrote: »

IL let them decide themselves. I hope they enjoy the hardship of farming as much as myself and I know il be bringing them with me ( herself is away on a hen and il be doing the jobs in the morning with an eight month old and a nappy bag hanging off me). Farming Instills a great work ethic and appreciation of nature that will be found nowhere else.

Actually it's found in all walks of life, that's what a young farmer needs to learn by going away for a bit, before he goes into farming and telling himself that everyone else in the world has it handier than him. They don't.

farmerval

Aside from anything else seeing outside methods and systems and the kind of discipline in other industries could be an advantage if/when someone returned to farm.
Equally a young person leaving school early to farm is closing a lot more doors than they are opening.

arctictree

I have a boy(6) and a girl(2). She is mad to help out but she's very young, him not so much. I bought my farm so I have no experiance of this father/son dynamic that others have. We will encourage the kids to help but not force them and see how that works out!

Miname

umop apisdn wrote: »

Actually it's found in all walks of life, that's what a young farmer needs to learn by going away for a bit, before he goes into farming and telling himself that everyone else in the world has it handier than him. They don't.

ImO

Talking about children here I've travelled a fair bit myself and expect them to do so aswell but I'm not going to discourage them from farming because it definately brings out good work ethic that you'll find nowhere else.

umop apisdn

Miname wrote: »

ImO

Talking about children here I've travelled a fair bit myself and expect them to do so aswell but I'm not going to discourage them from farming because it definately brings out good work ethic that you'll find nowhere else.

IMO compared to the lives of some, being an Irish farmer is a very privileged position that is taken for granted, and I've found a fantastic work ethic in many other walks of life. That's how the self employed survive, and without any of the subsidies Irish farmers get.

Greengrass1

farmerval wrote: »

I gave a small bit of time in Agri machinary sales, most shocking thing I saw was how bad the relationship between fathers and sons were, lot's of places the son was only a skivvy with daddy calling the shots, and sonny in his 30's!!
Really think potential farmers need considerable time outside the home farm at least if not indeed outside agriculture before deciding their future.

Quite the opposite here. Dad just let's me at it. He has no fear of letting me at it and 2 of us get stuck in when we need to.
Plenty of arguments though I will say thay

davidk1394

Myself and the father work side by side but we both have an equal say. I'm still only a young lad so after college I'll head off for a few years. In the last 2 years my niece has started to take an interest in the farm so she comes off working with us. She's 16 so she likes the machinery work like topping mowing raking and drawing bales. I might find myself out of the job if I'm not careful!

whelan2

is the leaving cert needed to get into ag college?

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

is the leaving cert needed to get into ag college?

Eh don't think so.
Ye can do one yr in ag college and thrm move on into ag science in Waterford or cork. Another way if getting a good qualification if ye wanted

WheatenBriar

umop apisdn wrote: »

IMO compared to the lives of some, being an Irish farmer is a very privileged position that is taken for granted, and I've found a fantastic work ethic in many other walks of life. That's how the self employed survive, and without any of the subsidies Irish farmers get.

Aye..but those people in non farming self employment are more PRIVILEGED tbh,to be in a business where they are price makers not price takers ergo getting a living from their work alone
This year and for probably three of the last six,most of dairy farmers profit (if any)has had to come from subsidies or the other halfs wages

By the looks of things that's going to be the norm going forward
If my siblings are happy going into that,well and good
Things were much better when I started out 30 years ago

Monkeysgomad

whelan2 wrote: »

Another post got me thinking, my eldest lad is 14 loves farming, now he is in no way tied to the farm goes off with his friends most days . He was telling me of a lad in 5th year leaving school this year to go home and farm, he said he thinks its madness, he will have no leaving cert to fall back on if things go wrong. So will or would you encourage them to go farming??

If your son loves farming and wants to do it I would let him. I definitely wouldn't leave him leave school without a leaving cert, as these days if anything went wrong he would have nothing. I agree with others, he should go travelling if he wants and get some life experience.

whelan2

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

If your son loves farming and wants to do it I would let him. I definitely wouldn't leave him leave school without a leaving cert, as these days if anything went wrong he would have nothing. I agree with others, he should go travelling if he wants and get some life experience.

He will most definitely do his leaving and can go were he wants then. Great if he wants to come home and farm after a few years.

gazahayes

whelan2 wrote: »

is the leaving cert needed to get into ag college?

It's not needed but with so many applications there is better chance if it's done.

keep going

As long they want to be or do something idont mind , nothing worse than people having no focus or ambition

Farmer Pudsey

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

If your son loves farming and wants to do it I would let him. I definitely wouldn't leave him leave school without a leaving cert, as these days if anything went wrong he would have nothing. I agree with others, he should go travelling if he wants and get some life experience.

Not only should he get a leaving cert, he should go to college or do a trade. if he want to milk cows he needs to do green cert etc.

umop apisdn

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Aye..but those people in non farming self employment are more PRIVILEGED tbh,to be in a business where they are price makers not price takers ergo getting a living from their work alone
This year and for probably three of the last six,most of dairy farmers profit (if any)has had to come from subsidies or the other halfs wages

By the looks of things that's going to be the norm going forward
If my siblings are happy going into that,well and good
Things were much better when I started out 30 years ago

No harm to you personally, but when we're on the subject, I'm sick hearing those worn out excuses at every mart from the same broken records over and over every week, and my sons won't be listening to them. Like a bucket of crabs wanting to pull everyone esle down into their failed state of mind. Any tradesman takes whatever price the market dictates as well, and gets no handouts from the government or the eu. Every employee in Ireland takes whatever price they can get off their employer. Those lads coming off the boats would give their right arm to own a small Irish farm and have a healthy outdoor life where they are their own boss, and would work as hard as any Irish lad that had it handed to him, so thanks be to God, I know I'm one of the privileged in life, and so do my sons. They'll be no spoiled whining farmer with a sense of entitlement reared in my house. They either want to do farming for the love of it, or instead, they should sell up, get out, and go and do something else they enjoy in life. Money comes, money goes.

John_Rambo

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Aye..but those people in non farming self employment are more PRIVILEGED tbh,to be in a business where they are price makers not price takers ergo getting a living from their work alone
This year and for probably three of the last six,most of dairy farmers profit (if any)has had to come from subsidies or the other halfs wages

By the looks of things that's going to be the norm going forward
If my siblings are happy going into that,well and good
Things were much better when I started out 30 years ago

You've a twinkly eyed romantic notion of business outside farming! Believe it or not, it's just as tough in most businesses. Very few people are naming their price out there WheatenBriar! I have a new contract with a large company. They pared down the price so far I honestly don't know when it's going to be profitable.

umop apisdn

John_Rambo wrote: »

You've a twinkly eyed romantic notion of business outside farming! Believe it or not, it's just as tough in most businesses. Very few people are naming their price out there WheatenBriar! I have a new contract with a large company. They pared down the price so far I honestly don't know when it's going to be profitable.

That's exactly why my lads will be sent to do a bit of traveling and told to make their own way in the world before coming back to farm. They won't be fed the destructive and bullshyte notion that everything else in the world is handy.

Miname

umop apisdn wrote: »

That's exactly why my lads will be sent to do a bit of traveling and told to make their own way in the world before coming back to farm. They won't be fed the destructive and bullshyte notion that everything else in the world is handy.

WhEre are you getting this opinion that everyone on here thinks everything is rosey outside farming. A fair majority of the people on here work full time as well as farm and the most of them have gone out and had other professions and there's even a few thathad to go out and buy their whole farms. I'd be confident enough to say everyone on here knows what goes on outside their farm gates, it seems moreso that your itching for a farmer versus paye fight. And just to set things fair, there are plenty of other grants and subs being handed out to other sectors, I for one have been offered a fair few lads on the back to work scheme but any I had I would want to be getting paid to have, and I'm only a very small business. Leader grants, Ida schemes and a multitude of other grants are there, it's just the collective amounts seem huge that farmers get yet it's still only a pittance to what the bigger companies get.

davidk1394

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Eh don't think so.
Ye can do one yr in ag college and thrm move on into ag science in Waterford or cork. Another way if getting a good qualification if ye wanted

I got in the back door way to do land management in Waterford but you cant do ag science

Greengrass1

davidk1394 wrote: »

I got in the back door way to do land management in Waterford but you cant do ag science

3 of my mates in kildalton went onto to ag in Waterford after doing first yr in Waterford and another 2 after doing 2nd yr

WheatenBriar

John_Rambo wrote: »

You've a twinkly eyed romantic notion of business outside farming! Believe it or not, it's just as tough in most businesses. Very few people are naming their price out there WheatenBriar! I have a new contract with a large company. They pared down the price so far I honestly don't know when it's going to be profitable.

Why are you doing that so?
You're making the same point about your line of business as I am about farming
Of course there's businesses outside of farming that dont do well OBVIOUSLY but farming is one of if not the worlds most important jobs and its treated poorly very poorly

WheatenBriar

umop apisdn wrote: »

No harm to you personally, but when we're on the subject, I'm sick hearing those worn out excuses at every mart from the same broken records over and over every week, and my sons won't be listening to them. Like a bucket of crabs wanting to pull everyone esle down into their failed state of mind. Any tradesman takes whatever price the market dictates as well, and gets no handouts from the government or the eu. Every employee in Ireland takes whatever price they can get off their employer. Those lads coming off the boats would give their right arm to own a small Irish farm and have a healthy outdoor life where they are their own boss, and would work as hard as any Irish lad that had it handed to him, so thanks be to God, I know I'm one of the privileged in life, and so do my sons. They'll be no spoiled whining farmer with a sense of entitlement reared in my house. They either want to do farming for the love of it, or instead, they should sell up, get out, and go and do something else they enjoy in life. Money comes, money goes.

There's a lot of fierce big flaws in what you are saying there,not least of which is the implication that people are handed farms,that its a nice lifestyle (it is and it isn't), that farmers are like employees with paid holidays, weekends off with the same ability to move to a better payscale etc etc
The attitude you seem to have too,that farmers are only a crowd of whingers at marts is dreadful,are farmers not allowed to complain about their shackles and enjoy life at the same time?
Believe me I enjoyed every day of the last 30 odd years of this,even the days where things go wrong (you just need to laugh) and still look forward to planning every day
But neither that positivity or anybodies condescension is going to muzzle me or most lads from calling out the bull**** we are faced with

bogman_bass

Like others said I'd give them the option but wouldn't push them into it.

I'd want my kids to farm because they WANT to not because they HAVE to.
Must be terrible being trapped in a job because you have no other options