The joys of maintaining a dealer FSH....

whomitconcerns

Second service on the audi...450..expensive enough..

Nope..Multitronic oil change €250, brake disc change €350 (85% worn), Brake fluid change €70 ..now we got over €1100.....oh the joys of a wanting a official Audi FSH.....quiet weekend (quiet next 4 weekends) methinks...

I told them i didnt need the airconditioning rewhatevered for €70 also....

rant over.....

Toyotafanboi

Considering the car probably cost minimum €30k and is probably still pretty much new, do you really begrudge it a €1k service? You want premium car impression without the price?

challengemaster

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Considering the car probably cost minimum €30k and is probably still pretty much new, do you really begrudge it a €1k service? You want premium car impression without the price?

It's a 2012 a6, presumably bought new..

Second service in ~3-4 years. That's around 500 a year in maintenance costs, which is piss all.

18MonthsaSlave

EVs won't have most of those service items. Brakes will still be there but they won't be wearing out as quickly. This has already proved to be the case on the Prius and Leaf.

Lease companies will push for longer service intervals.

ba_barabus

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

Lease companies will push for longer service intervals.

A false economy

18MonthsaSlave

lease companies have made manufacturers push out the life of timing belts and forced manufacturers to re-adopt timing chains which the manufacturers would never have done themselves if left to their own devices.

dodzy

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Considering the car probably cost minimum €30k and is probably still pretty much new, do you really begrudge it a €1k service? You want premium car impression without the price?

I'd be interested to know what George Dalton would charge for identical work. Just curious, like.

bucketybuck

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Second service on the audi...450..expensive enough..

Nope..Multitronic oil change €250, brake disc change €350 (85% worn), Brake fluid change €70 ..now we got over €1100.....oh the joys of a wanting a official Audi FSH.....quiet weekend (quiet next 4 weekends) methinks...

I told them i didnt need the airconditioning rewhatevered for €70 also....

rant over.....

What has an official FSH got to do with whether you needed the brakes done or not?

Toyotafanboi

dodzy wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what George Dalton would charge for identical work. Just curious, like.

i'm sure an independent dealer could come in a bit cheaper on the same jobs.

just wondering how someone could come up with tens of thousands for a car then get annoyed when it costs €1k to service it.

jimgoose

That's an expensive, premium vehicle. Those costs sound quite sane to me. Except the brake-discs bit - stop keeping the brakes jammed on after coming to a stop, it's pad-imprinting and knackering the discs.

MTBD

I dont understand why an Audi FSH is considered a good thing. If anything I think main dealer services are now vastly inferior to a proper independent job. I would gladly accept a comprehensive service history with receipts from an experienced mechanic over a dealership.

BMW dont even change the air or oil filters at service now unless a sensor tells them to. Then when it does need changing outside of the service interval you end up having to pay a fortune for the privilege (€130 to be precise for an air filter last week as it started blowinf black smoke out the back). That is ludicrous and an independent specialist will change them at every service for less money.

Also, your mechanic in an Audi garage is almost certain to be a clueless apprentice who wont spot anything not obvious as the senior mechanics will be doing something more difficult.

Full dealer service histories are a waste of money and inferior in my experience.

I dont know much about Audi but I'd imagine there must be a few Audi specialists around these days.

9935452

MTBD wrote: »

I dont understand why an Audi FSH is considered a good thing. If anything I think main dealer services are now vastly inferior to a proper independent job. I would gladly accept a comprehensive service history with receipts from an experienced mechanic over a dealership.

BMW dont even change the air or oil filters at service now unless a sensor tells them to. Then when it does need changing outside of the service interval you end up having to pay a fortune for the privilege (€130 to be precise for an air filter last week as it started blowinf black smoke out the back). That is ludicrous and an independent specialist will change them at every service for less money.

Also, your mechanic in an Audi garage is almost certain to be a clueless apprentice who wont spot anything not obvious as the senior mechanics will be doing something more difficult.

Full dealer service histories are a waste of money and inferior in my experience.

I dont know much about Audi but I'd imagine there must be a few Audi specialists around these days.

Oh there is .
I sent my Audi to a vw audi specialist to get the electric handbrake looked at . working perfectly but throwing up a fault. He scanned it , said the module was faulty, sent the car to a foreigner to repair module , foreigner tried 3 of his repaired modules , none worked . not the module so.
He spent 5 days working on the problem , couldnt fix it , so neithre could the vw audi specialist.
Went to a main dealer and he read the fault , fitted a new module , car fixed.4 hours car fixed and serviced and car ready for nct.
The other idiot had my car for over 2 weeks, half a tank of diesel burnt . 300 extra miles on the clock
Fathers passat failed the nct on a ball joint. same specialist changed the wrong ball joint.
Id have no problem going back to that main dealer. Cheaper in the long run

Alanstrainor

9935452 wrote: »

Oh there is .
I sent my Audi to a vw audi specialist to get the electric handbrake looked at . working perfectly but throwing up a fault. He scanned it , said the module was faulty, sent the car to a foreigner to repair module , foreigner tried 3 of his repaired modules , none worked . not the module so.
He spent 5 days working on the problem , couldnt fix it , so neithre could the vw audi specialist.
Went to a main dealer and he read the fault , fitted a new module , car fixed.4 hours car fixed and serviced and car ready for nct.
The other idiot had my car for over 2 weeks, half a tank of diesel burnt . 300 extra miles on the clock
Fathers passat failed the nct on a ball joint. same specialist changed the wrong ball joint.
Id have no problem going back to that main dealer. Cheaper in the long run

Find a better specialist is the correct answer really... your man sounds like a clown.

9935452

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Find a better specialist is the correct answer really... your man sounds like a clown.

Ah he is . complete idiot, The car or myself will never go back to him, Not getting paid either for doing nothing bar burning my diesel.
I have a very good independent garage , i only went with the clown as he was closer and a specialist

tossy

Plus he gave your car to a foreigner!! Mein gott :rolleyes:

uck51js9zml2yt

tossy wrote: »

Plus he gave your car to a foreigner!! Mein gott :rolleyes:

My local independent is also a foreigner and does a great job on my car.... He's English

9935452

tossy wrote: »

Plus he gave your car to a foreigner!! Mein gott :rolleyes:

My issue with him giving the car to someone else was i dropped it to him because he was the audi specialist , i could have dropped it to the other lad myself.
This particular foreigner hasnt a great rep himself which i found after.

My own garage has 2 foreigners(polish) who are great lads and do excellent work. i trust them

goochy

get the cars serviced at main dealer , repaired independent . wouldnt buy an 2012 audi without FASH

mickdw

I've run an Audi from new with comprehensive service history and I would never entertain a bill like that for standard servicing.
I got my audi stamp each year for basic service for anywhere between 99 and 129 then look after additional items myself where possible keeping full records with parts receipts etc.
I kept that up till last year on my 08 car until the audi dealer suddenly wanted 189 for the same service.

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

That's an expensive, premium vehicle. Those costs sound quite sane to me. Except the brake-discs bit - stop keeping the brakes jammed on after coming to a stop, it's pad-imprinting and knackering the discs.

It's an auto, what do you suggest he does, N & handbrake at every stop?

Tommyboy40

Although all my cars are 19+ years old I keep a full Mercedes service history. I pay €149 for the 4 cylinder cars. This is only an oil and filter change and my trusted indy does everything else with genuine parts

166man

For myself personally I like to see a full service history. To the chap above slating main dealers, he's clearing talking rubbish. In my own experience, main dealers are very very comprehensive with the work they carry out. The apprentices are trained properly and they have serious techs that work on the cars.

People need to seriously stop slating main dealers, they obviously haven't a clue how they are run, and that overheads are extremely high.

KNS

I've always jumped between specialist independent and Audi main dealer. At times it's just more convenient to go to the main dealer since they stock more parts etc and are v close but if I can do with out the car for a couple of days I'll drop it off to the independent who's a bit of a drive away.

From my experience you need to be on your toes with the main dealer. They caught me on two items this year; brake fluid & and tyre foam. They rang saying brake fluid and tyre foam/inflatant need doing/replacing but I was 90% sure brake fluid and foam had been included in last service by previous owner. Told service rep to check history documentation and only carry out these two items if it wasn't listed in history/service record.

When I picked up carry theses 2 items had been included. Thought nothing of it. Later that evening when I was at home checked the history & low and behold brake fluid and foam was included in last years service. Brake fluid is every 2 years and foam has a long shelf life so last years foam would not need to be replaced a year later.

Also noticed last service she took less oil than this one. 5 v 9! Might have to reject docs for that claim.

Back to independent next year I reckon for the major service.

MTBD

166man wrote: »

For myself personally I like to see a full service history. To the chap above slating main dealers, he's clearing talking rubbish. In my own experience, main dealers are very very comprehensive with the work they carry out. The apprentices are trained properly and they have serious techs that work on the cars.

People need to seriously stop slating main dealers, they obviously haven't a clue how they are run, and that overheads are extremely high.

Not really, I'm just stating my opinion. You always come across as very aggressive and opinionated in threads fyi.

I recently had a family member charged €130 by BMW for an air filter change. The car received what any rational person would have assumed was a full service ie. filters and fluids, etc. 2 months later with less than 2000 miles on the clock since it starts blowing black smoke. Obviously assumed it was the turbo going so we brought it in under warranty only to be told it needed a new air filter. Why wasnt that done at service? That is very basic maintenance and any indie would have done it. Being charged €130 for a filter is outrageous.

I dont give a sugar what their overheads are if they are unable to provide a service because of it.

Neilw

MTBD wrote: »

Not really, I'm just stating my opinion. You always come across as very aggressive and opinionated in threads fyi.

I recently had a family member charged €130 by BMW for an air filter change. The car received what any rational person would have assumed was a full service ie. filters and fluids, etc. 2 months later with less than 2000 miles on the clock since it starts blowing black smoke. Obviously assumed it was the turbo going so we brought it in under warranty only to be told it needed a new air filter. Why wasnt that done at service? That is very basic maintenance and any indie would have done it. Being charged €130 for a filter is outrageous.

I dont give a sugar what their overheads are if they are unable to provide a service because of it.

It's outrageous to hand over €130 to have an air filter changed.

The filter was probably €20-25, plus an hours labour and there's your €130.
Easy diy job next time

challengemaster

Neilw wrote: »

It's outrageous to hand over €130 to have an air filter changed.

The filter was probably €20-25, plus an hours labour and there's your €130.
Easy diy job next time

It's an easy job, but you practically have to dismantle half the engine to change an air filter in the diesel BMWs. It's a right pain in the bollox.

MTBD

Neilw wrote: »

It's outrageous to hand over €130 to have an air filter changed.

The filter was probably €20-25, plus an hours labour and there's your €130.
Easy diy job next time

You are missing my point entirely. The car had just been serviced and started blowing black smoke. In all my years I have never heard of a service not including filters. How exactly would you think that was what the problem was?

And if as challenge master says is true about them being difficult to change, then why the **** don't they change it when it's in for service. It's a bull**** service. Centred around ripping people off. An independent Mechanic would have changed the filter and the issue would never have arisen.

bucketybuck

MTBD wrote: »

You are missing my point entirely. The car had just been serviced and started blowing black smoke. In all my years I have never heard of a service not including filters. How exactly would you think that was what the problem was?

And if as challenge master says is true about them being difficult to change, then why the **** don't they change it when it's in for service. It's a bull**** service. Centred around ripping people off. An independent Mechanic would have changed the filter and the issue would never have arisen.

Except that the vast majority of the time an air filter does not need to be replaced at every service, a lot of independents will just blow out an air filter instead of changing, saving the customer some money. I know for our range we don't change the air filter as standard, just check and clean it unless its really bad.

Can't win though. No doubt there is a thread somewhere with a complaint about a dealer charging for air filters at every service when they aren't needed.

Neilw

bucketybuck wrote: »

Except that the vast majority of the time an air filter does not need to be replaced at every service, a lot of independents will just blow out an air filter instead of changing, saving the customer some money. I know for our range we don't change the air filter as standard, just check and clean it unless its really bad.

Can't win though. No doubt there is a thread somewhere with a complaint about a dealer charging for air filters at every service when they aren't needed.

Exactly, air and fuel filters are not a standard every service item...I was commenting on your claim that it was outrageous to pay €130 for an air filter fitted.
Bmw are within their rights to charge what they see fit, it's the customers choice to put value on the service and pay it or not.

I wouldn't pay it myself but as a rule I check air filters myself and replace when needed.

9935452

Neilw wrote: »

Exactly, air and fuel filters are not a standard every service item...I was commenting on your claim that it was outrageous to pay €130 for an air filter fitted.
Bmw are within their rights to charge what they see fit, it's the customers choice to put value on the service and pay it or not.

I wouldn't pay it myself but as a rule I check air filters myself and replace when needed.

Pollen filters too.
You have to wonder how much the service cost as well.
if it was 100/150 how could you expect all the filters to be changed as well.

quadrifoglio verde

166man wrote: »

For myself personally I like to see a full service history. To the chap above slating main dealers, he's clearing talking rubbish. In my own experience, main dealers are very very comprehensive with the work they carry out. The apprentices are trained properly and they have serious techs that work on the cars.

People need to seriously stop slating main dealers, they obviously haven't a clue how they are run, and that overheads are extremely high.

Would you let tracta do the Timing belt on your 166?


:pac:

gctest50

Neilw wrote: »

......................................
I wouldn't pay it myself but as a rule I check air filters myself and replace when needed.

how do you check them ?

George Dalton

Neilw wrote: »

Bmw are within their rights to charge what they see fit, it's the customers choice to put value on the service and pay it or not.

I couldn't agree more. If the majority of customers pay the asking price then why would the Audi/BMW/whatever dealer do anything to try and drop their prices?

There is no point complaining after the fact. If you think the quote is too expensive then decline the work and do some research and get it done cheaper.

We regularly get new customers who had left their car with a main dealer (Audi and BMW in particular) and have gotten massive quotes for repair work on top of the standard service. While we are delighted to get the work I often wonder how many people have just agreed to the extra work and paid out massive sums to the dealer as a consequence. I would say the vast majority do just that.

Audi dealers in particular seem to be very fond of telling people they need new brake discs and pads when they aren't needed at all. I remember one particular example where we changed the rear discs and pads (using genuine Audi parts) on an A4 as part of a major service with timing belt change. A year and 15,000km later the owner took the car to Audi for its annual service as it was only going to be due a basic oil and filter service and as he was quite a distance away from us there was no point making the journey as any savings would be offset by time and fuel costs. Audi recommended that the rear discs and pads be changed......

Jesus.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Considering the car probably cost minimum €30k and is probably still pretty much new, do you really begrudge it a €1k service?

Oh come on!

bazz26

George Dalton wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. If the majority of customers pay the asking price then why would the Audi/BMW/whatever dealer do anything to try and drop their prices?

There is no point complaining after the fact. If you think the quote is too expensive then decline the work and do some research and get it done cheaper.

We regularly get new customers who had left their car with a main dealer (Audi and BMW in particular) and have gotten massive quotes for repair work on top of the standard service. While we are delighted to get the work I often wonder how many people have just agreed to the extra work and paid out massive sums to the dealer as a consequence. I would say the vast majority do just that.

Audi dealers in particular seem to be very fond of telling people they need new brake discs and pads when they aren't needed at all. I remember one particular example where we changed the rear discs and pads (using genuine Audi parts) on an A4 as part of a major service with timing belt change. A year and 15,000km later the owner took the car to Audi for its annual service as it was only going to be due a basic oil and filter service and as he was quite a distance away from us there was no point making the journey as any savings would be offset by time and fuel costs. Audi recommended that the rear discs and pads be changed......

Yep, I got that line when I was getting my F10 in for a basic oil and filter change. When I was booking it in I got recommended over the phone that the discs and pads needed changing without even seeing them. :eek: Funny thing is that they were changed by the previous owner about 6 months before they traded the car.

George Dalton

bazz26 wrote: »

Yep, I got that line when I was getting my F10 in for a basic oil and filter change. When I was booking it in I got recommended over the phone that the discs and pads needed changing without even seeing them. :eek: Funny thing is that they were changed by the previous owner about 6 months before they traded the car.

They probably made that recommendation to 10 people that day. You declined. How many people said ok?

The other 9 I would say...

umop apisdn

OP - That's what happens when you buy dear scrap like VAG. The large windows on their showrooms are to see you coming. My brother bought a new hyundai recently. For 500 in total the main dealer will service it every year for 5 years, and put in any parts it needs from oil to filters, belts, to clutch. The only things not covered is tyres, brake pads, wipers, and bulbs, and he'll have the main dealer FSH.

bazz26

I'd say your not far off George.

Actually just looking at bmwservice.ie there which are main dealer prices and just an air filter change for an F10 is €88.16 including vat and labour. Recommended to be changed every 2nd or 3rd oil service.

George Dalton

umop apisdn wrote: »

That's what happens when you buy dear scrap like VAG. The large windows on their showrooms are to see you coming.
My brother bought a new hyundai recently. For 500 in total the main dealer will service it every year for 5 years, and put in any parts it needs from oil to filters, belts, to clutch. The only things not covered is tyres, brake pads, wipers, and bulbs, and he'll have the main dealer FSH.

And after that god help you because the price of genuine Hyundai parts is nothing short of scandalous....

umop apisdn

George Dalton wrote: »

And after that god help you because the price of genuine Hyundai parts is nothing short of scandalous....

Still be cheaper than any VAG part

George Dalton

umop apisdn wrote: »

Still be cheaper than any VAG part

No it wouldn't. Hyundai parts are very expensive. VW parts are competitively priced to the point where in many cases we just stock the genuine part as it is just as cheap or cheaper than aftermarket. That would never happen with Hyundai/Kia.

Let's compare a Golf and an I30.

To take one example:
A genuine cabin filter for a 2011 I30 is approximately €30 ex VAT.
A genuine cabin filter for a 2011 Golf is approximately €10 ex VAT.

umop apisdn

George Dalton wrote: »

No it wouldn't. Hyundai parts are very expensive. VW parts are competitively priced to the point where in many cases we just stock the genuine part as it is just as cheap or cheaper than aftermarket. That would never happen with Hyundai/Kia.

Let's compare a Golf and an I30.

To take one example:
A genuine cabin filter for a 2011 I30 is approximately €30 ex VAT.
A genuine cabin filter for a 2011 Golf is approximately €10 ex VAT.

Your're too dear, sure who would buy your parts on a 5 year old plus car ? Not to mention you'll be needing far more parts on a VAG and their crappy warranty / reliability, and the fact a VAG dealer will be wanting to change the cabin filter every 5 minutes.

Neilw

gctest50 wrote: »

how do you check them ?

Eh, open the airbox and look at the condition of the filter. If it's dirty I fit a new one, simples

Sh1tbag OToole

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

EVs won't have most of those service items. Brakes will still be there but they won't be wearing out as quickly. This has already proved to be the case on the Prius and Leaf.

Lease companies will push for longer service intervals.

The donkey in the room is the eventual battery replacement costs. When cells start to go bad and whole battery packs need to be replaced you'll be looking at truly eyewatering servicing costs but when you initially buy the EV you think wow great everything is fierce cheap but you're just kicking a massive can down the road

Neilw

umop apisdn wrote: »

Your're too dear, sure who would buy your parts on a 5 year old plus car ? Not to mention you'll be needing far more parts on a VAG and their crappy warranty / reliability, and the fact a VAG dealer will be wanting to change the cabin filter every 5 minutes.

How can you say he is too dear when he has quoted prices from two different manufacturers...George didn't set the prices, the dealer did :rolleyes:

George Dalton

umop apisdn wrote: »

Your're too dear, sure who would buy your parts on a 5 year old plus car ? Not to mention you'll be needing far more parts on a VAG and their crappy warranty / reliability.

This is borderline trolling at this stage but I'll humour you anyway

I am simply referring to the relative prices of dealer parts. Nothing to do with the parts we use. This thread is not about what I do for a living any more than it is about what you do for a living.

Obviously we wouldn't use a Hyundai branded filter @€;30 when a good quality aftermarket filter is half the price. However we will use a VW branded filter @€;10 compared to a non VW filter @€;10 plus. That's the point I was trying to make.

9935452

umop apisdn wrote: »

OP - That's what happens when you buy dear scrap like VAG. The large windows on their showrooms are to see you coming. My brother bought a new hyundai recently. For 500 in total the main dealer will service it every year for 5 years, and put in any parts it needs from oil to filters, belts, to clutch. The only things not covered is tyres, brake pads, wipers, and bulbs, and he'll have the main dealer FSH.

What are the service intervals for stuff like oil changes and timing belts on hyundais. i would assume they are running on extended life servicing like 25/30k kms for oil changes.
I would personally prefer to run mine at 10/15k kms

RedorDead

MTBD wrote: »

I dont understand why an Audi FSH is considered a good thing. If anything I think main dealer services are now vastly inferior to a proper independent job.

Also, your mechanic in an Audi garage is almost certain to be a clueless apprentice who wont spot anything not obvious as the senior mechanics will be doing something more difficult.

Full dealer service histories are a waste of money and inferior in my experience.

I dont know much about Audi but I'd imagine there must be a few Audi specialists around these days.

So much BS in this post i dont know where to begin. Maybe the highlighted parts.

You obviously have no clue of the amount of training audi aftersales technicians (all master technicians, technicians and apprentices) go through on an annual basis.

The last part of your post highlighted above sums you up i think :rolleyes:

mickdw

umop apisdn wrote: »

OP - That's what happens when you buy dear scrap like VAG. The large windows on their showrooms are to see you coming. My brother bought a new hyundai recently. For 500 in total the main dealer will service it every year for 5 years, and put in any parts it needs from oil to filters, belts, to clutch. The only things not covered is tyres, brake pads, wipers, and bulbs, and he'll have the main dealer FSH.

Will they really fit a new clutch under warranty to a 5 year old car if it's actually worn ?
I find that hard to believe

bucketybuck

RedorDead wrote: »

You obviously have no clue of the amount of training audi aftersales technicians (all master technicians, technicians and apprentices) go through on an annual basis.

When I think about how much we have spent on training this year alone, both in terms of real cost and lost productivity sending guys to the UK for days at a time, I can only laugh at people thinking the independents know more than we do.

I grew up in an independent garage, (my father was one) I know all about them and you see all those independent mechanics? They have to ring us every day for help.

Neilw

bucketybuck wrote: »

When I think about how much we have spent on training this year alone, both in terms of real cost and lost productivity sending guys to the UK for days at a time, I can only laugh at people thinking the independents know more than we do.

I grew up in an independent garage, (my father was one) I know all about them and you see all those independent mechanics? They have to ring us every day for help.

Genuine question here...are main dealers for all their training informed of known issues with models in their range?
Most of the time it takes an independent to confirm a known problem when a dealer denies any such problem exists with their cars.