Government wrings hands and says it can do nothing about insurance.

CJhaughey

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/transport-minister-rules-out-intervention-as-car-insurance-costs-soar-691756.html

All to happy to have 60% of the price of fuel but they won't do a thing against the rising insurance costs except allow the courts to give bigger lump sums!
If you didn't know better you'd think that politicians were looking after the legal profession...
Its very simple to get costs down, reduce injury lump sums.
Instead they increased the amounts awardable by the Circuit and District courts.
They will be feeling the wrath come election time from me anyway.

Special Circumstances

Ah here, they're on holidays like. I'm sure they'll be right on it any month now.

freddieot

I suppose one idea would be to totally open up the market and allow foreign insurance companies in other EU countries to offer cover to Irish citizens. I'm not really sure why this is not possible now - no doubt someone can explain the situation.

JustTheOne

Why should claims come down to mace insurance cheaper for you?

redsteveireland

Driving claim free for 18 years and my premium just went up, again. I have the sh@ts of it to be honest.

Wibbs

JustTheOne wrote: »

Why should claims come down to mace insurance cheaper for you?

Because the claims payouts are among the highest in the world and encourage compo culture in a huge way. This drives insurance up, drives foreign insurance companies away and makes us all pay crazily over the odds for our insurance. Which in turn can affect the economy in a bad way.

Wibbs

freddieot wrote: »

I suppose one idea would be to totally open up the market and allow foreign insurance companies in other EU countries to offer cover to Irish citizens. I'm not really sure why this is not possible now - no doubt someone can explain the situation.

They won't risk it F as the Irish market is damned hard to make a living from. EG 2000 quid(if even that) for whiplash in Germany, more like 10,000+ here.

Littlehorny

Whiplash payout in England- 5 thousand, whiplash payout in Ireland- 15 thousand. Why is the payout 3 times the size? As everyone knows a whiplash claim is virtually impossible to disprove leaving it open to all kinds of abuse.

brightspark

freddieot wrote: »

I suppose one idea would be to totally open up the market and allow foreign insurance companies in other EU countries to offer cover to Irish citizens. I'm not really sure why this is not possible now - no doubt someone can explain the situation.

Wasn't Setanta based in Malta? (At least it had its headquarters there) until it closed leaving lots of drivers with no valid insurance.

visual

Littlehorny wrote: »

Whiplash payout in England- 5 thousand, whiplash payout in Ireland- 15 thousand. Why is the payout 3 times the size? As everyone knows a whiplash claim is virtually impossible to disprove leaving it open to all kinds of abuse.

It's a factor in higher prices but not the only one.
Greed in a captivate market where cartel is the buzz word has a bigger impact.

Chris_Heilong

I think the "New" minister for transport needs to grow a pair, I have seen him comenting on other motor issues and noted he seemed clueless.

CardinalJ

visual wrote:

It's a factor in higher prices but not the only one. Greed in a captivate market where cartel is the buzz word has a bigger impact.

Almost all insurers making an underwriting loss this year, so the prices aren't going up through pure greed. The 'cheap' insurers (RSA/123, FBD/no nonsense, Quinn) who were writing unsustainable business have all got stung and are now pricing based on the reality of Ireland's courts system. In addition, the circuit court are putting out crazy amounts and ignoring a lot of fraud.

Claims costs are huge and that's down to how much claimants and their solicitors know they can get in court. Ireland needs personal injury courts in my opinion. Average Judges don't have an understanding of PI claims. Family law/commercial judges are expected to be able to accurately value an injury, which they understandably can't.

As is possibly obvious, I work in insurance.

Special Circumstances

From reading that article, caps on claims in the circuit court were raised in 2014.

Following several companies sailing a little too close to the wind, all companies have recently (?) been compelled to have a greater amount of a "stash" for payouts.

So that's a double whammy for insurers.



But luckily, the house always wins in insurance.

Except that it's obvious that as new cars get safer, used cars have been getting more and more unsafe . A 15yr old car 10 years ago was acceptable, but these more modern 15yr old cars? Lethal. Every last one of them.

visual

CardinalJ wrote: »

As is possibly obvious, I work in insurance.

It was very obvious and it appears to be your honest believe.
What is missing is real proof ie balance sheet

x taken y paid out and z won't be a negative number as suggested.
Unless of course they have just bought over another insurance company or been investing elsewhere.

To Elland Back

freddieot wrote: »

I suppose one idea would be to totally open up the market and allow foreign insurance companies in other EU countries to offer cover to Irish citizens. I'm not really sure why this is not possible now - no doubt someone can explain the situation.

It is possible, it is HERE NOW, they just don't want us as customers. They don't think they can offer a fair premium and not get ridden bareback through the woods. We, the Irish motoring public, are not an attractive prospect

We are now all paying the 1.6billion levy for the collapse of Quinn insurance .....and will be for decades to come.
The days of cheap car insurance are gone forever.,

daheff

i just saw on news about motoring costs 2 figures that really bamboozled me

first 'average' insurance cost is now slightly more than 1000 eur a year... wtf....does everybody drive 5l cars or are there that many 17yo driving that it skews the average price to this? personally i'd have thought average would have been closer to 600- my own is circa 350-400 (on both cars...admitedly 1.2l cars)


Second point they made is the average family spends 10k a year (10 f'ing grand!!!!!) on their car. I cant possibly get my head around how they make that figure. so 1k for ins..possibly 1k in petrol/diesel. 350 -500 for tax.... still leaves 7.5k on other expenses. the only thing i can think of for this is depreciation...but even over 5 years that works out at a car costing 35-40k. not sure how many cars are out there costing that much

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

The days of cheap car insurance are gone forever.,

Exceuse me - when were those days, as I hardly remember anything like that?

CardinalJ

visual wrote:

x taken y paid out and z won't be a negative number as suggested. Unless of course they have just bought over another insurance company or been investing elsewhere.

It's an underwriting loss. It's what caused RSA to need 100s of millions, FBD to be in a bit of trouble, Quinn to go under and Setanta to go under. Companies have other reserves that they have to have to meet future claims, but you can't just use them to pay claims instead of taking in sufficient premiums.

I'm not saying insurance companies are saints, certainly the reason premiums are going up, is because a lot of insurance companies were charging way too little for years. You dont see 123 etc advertising insurance for 200 quid anymore.

Eric Cartman

daheff wrote: »

i just saw on news about motoring costs 2 figures that really bamboozled me

first 'average' insurance cost is now slightly more than 1000 eur a year... wtf....does everybody drive 5l cars or are there that many 17yo driving that it skews the average price to this? personally i'd have thought average would have been closer to 600- my own is circa 350-400 (on both cars...admitedly 1.2l cars)


Second point they made is the average family spends 10k a year (10 f'ing grand!!!!!) on their car. I cant possibly get my head around how they make that figure. so 1k for ins..possibly 1k in petrol/diesel. 350 -500 for tax.... still leaves 7.5k on other expenses. the only thing i can think of for this is depreciation...but even over 5 years that works out at a car costing 35-40k. not sure how many cars are out there costing that much

a new passat on d'finance deal is 329 a month , insurance of 600 a year on that car would be 65 a month with d'payments deal , d'tax is 156 , d'diesel is about 200 a month , sure ye'd service is for 150 notes for d'year , then d'parking 5er a day x 250 working days of the year - 1250 notes ,

sure thats 8684 a year . you have one knock in a carpark, drive a bit more or park in a more expensive place during the work week and you'd hit 10k a year easy, and thats just for a boggo passat.

visual

CardinalJ wrote: »

It's an underwriting loss. It's what caused RSA to need 100s of millions, FBD to be in a bit of trouble, Quinn to go under and Setanta to go under. Companies have other reserves that they have to have to meet future claims, but you can't just use them to pay claims instead of taking in sufficient premiums.

I'm not saying insurance companies are saints, certainly the reason premiums are going up, is because a lot of insurance companies were charging way too little for years. You dont see 123 etc advertising insurance for 200 quid anymore.

Quinn when under for other reasons and is now liberty insurance not because claims brought it down.

I don't know all the details for other insurance companies but if the have spend their cash reserves else where it can hardly be blamed on claims and not earning enough by being the most expensive motor insurance companies in Europe if not the world.

It's an organised scam with media sound bites and zero proof.

Avg insurance is 1k (source RTE news) that means only 15 insured to payout for one whip lash claim.

So where is the facts and figures to support the usual media bites insurance companies put out.

Too many claims. Compared to what ? Where is the tangible proof.

Claims to high compared to UK but won't compare cost of insurance or the % taken in with paid out.

I'm tired of insurance companies crying wolf and hiking prices.

When we where forced to have insurance disc in window it was to combat uninsured drivers and lead to decreased insurance for all. Never happened instead cost went up.

The insurance industry here is dysfunctional no other way can they over charge and be one of the most expensive in the world yet claim they aren't able to make money.

curiosity

daheff wrote: »

i just saw on news about motoring costs 2 figures that really bamboozled me

first 'average' insurance cost is now slightly more than 1000 eur a year... wtf....does everybody drive 5l cars or are there that many 17yo driving that it skews the average price to this? personally i'd have thought average would have been closer to 600- my own is circa 350-400 (on both cars...admitedly 1.2l cars)


Second point they made is the average family spends 10k a year (10 f'ing grand!!!!!) on their car. I cant possibly get my head around how they make that figure. so 1k for ins..possibly 1k in petrol/diesel. 350 -500 for tax.... still leaves 7.5k on other expenses. the only thing i can think of for this is depreciation...but even over 5 years that works out at a car costing 35-40k. not sure how many cars are out there costing that much

http://www.theaa.ie/AA/Motoring-advice/Cost-of-motoring.aspx

Scroll down to the notes section

Insurance (Class 1 ) Average rates for Third Party, fire, Theft policies.
No allowance is made for no claims discount.

Marcusm

freddieot wrote: »

I suppose one idea would be to totally open up the market and allow foreign insurance companies in other EU countries to offer cover to Irish citizens. I'm not really sure why this is not possible now - no doubt someone can explain the situation.

It's entirely possible now and if it was consistently producing excess profits across the board you can guarantee that there would be more players. The fact is that it is not.

Voodoomelon

I didn't hear it myself, but apparently Paschal Donohoe was on the radio, blabbing about "focusing on road" safety to "reduce the amount of claims". Really and truly, is that what he said? I couldn't believe it, sounds like something a school kid would come up with.

newacc2015

visual wrote: »

Quinn when under for other reasons and is now liberty insurance not because claims brought it down.

I don't know all the details for other insurance companies but if the have spend their cash reserves else where it can hardly be blamed on claims and not earning enough by being the most expensive motor insurance companies in Europe if not the world.

It's an organised scam with media sound bites and zero proof.

Avg insurance is 1k (source RTE news) that means only 15 insured to payout for one whip lash claim.

So where is the facts and figures to support the usual media bites insurance companies put out.

Too many claims. Compared to what ? Where is the tangible proof.

Claims to high compared to UK but won't compare cost of insurance or the % taken in with paid out.

I'm tired of insurance companies crying wolf and hiking prices.

When we where forced to have insurance disc in window it was to combat uninsured drivers and lead to decreased insurance for all. Never happened instead cost went up.

The insurance industry here is dysfunctional no other way can they over charge and be one of the most expensive in the world yet claim they aren't able to make money.

I was going to buy shares in FBD, as they seemed cheap. So I read their company report for 2014, which is given to investors. They are generally filled with buzz words like "opportunities", "growth" and "potential". FBDs is bleak and literally talks about expect a hammering on your share price and dividends, as we are losing money on insurance due to high volume.

They mention the Irish car Insurance market lost €265Million between 2011 and 2013. Thats a massive sum of money for such a small market. If you are telling your investors, your company is doing ****. You know its extremely concerning, as a company only concern is to provide a dividend to its investors. FBD lost over €3million last year. It was an Ok loss, due to their other Business interest.

You cant expect insurance companies to keep prices the same and go out of Business. If insurance extremely gets profitable here, other companies will start to sell their insurance in Ireland. It happened with foreign banks opening during the boom

http://www.fbdgroup.com/media/FBDGroup/files/2014-Annual-Report-FBD-Holdings-plc.pdf

Cee-Jay-Cee

Littlehorny wrote: »

Whiplash payout in England- 5 thousand, whiplash payout in Ireland- 15 thousand. Why is the payout 3 times the size? As everyone knows a whiplash claim is virtually impossible to disprove leaving it open to all kinds of abuse.

Whiplash in France = €0 as it's not recognised as an actual real injury. At least the French got one thing right.

Eoin

daheff wrote: »

i just saw on news about motoring costs 2 figures that really bamboozled me

first 'average' insurance cost is now slightly more than 1000 eur a year... wtf....does everybody drive 5l cars or are there that many 17yo driving that it skews the average price to this? personally i'd have thought average would have been closer to 600- my own is circa 350-400 (on both cars...admitedly 1.2l cars)

I don't think my insurance dropped below a grand until I had 4+ years in my own name. Insurance might be on the increase, but it used to be a lot worse. I'd have been surprised if the first year's insurance was under 1K.

Though, out of boredom, I just got some quotes from a UK site and my insurance here works out at least as cheap.

daheff wrote: »

Second point they made is the average family spends 10k a year (10 f'ing grand!!!!!) on their car. I cant possibly get my head around how they make that figure. so 1k for ins..possibly 1k in petrol/diesel. 350 -500 for tax.... still leaves 7.5k on other expenses. the only thing i can think of for this is depreciation...but even over 5 years that works out at a car costing 35-40k. not sure how many cars are out there costing that much

The AA include depreciation in that figure, which to me is a bit misleading as it's a bit of a notional cost. Plus they assume a whopping 4K in parking / garage fees per year.

Liam McPoyle

newacc2015 wrote: »

I was going to buy shares in FBD, as they seemed cheap. So I read their company report for 2014, which is given to investors. They are generally filled with buzz words like "opportunities", "growth" and "potential". FBDs is bleak and literally talks about expect a hammering on your share price and dividends, as we are losing money on insurance due to high volume.

They mention the Irish car Insurance market lost €265Million between 2011 and 2013. Thats a massive sum of money for such a small market. If you are telling your investors, your company is doing ****. You know its extremely concerning, as a company only concern is to provide a dividend to its investors. FBD lost over €3million last year. It was an Ok loss, due to their other Business interest.

You cant expect insurance companies to keep prices the same and go out of Business. If insurance extremely gets profitable here, other companies will start to sell their insurance in Ireland. It happened with foreign banks opening during the boom

http://www.fbdgroup.com/media/FBDGroup/files/2014-Annual-Report-FBD-Holdings-plc.pdf

Where are you going, with your sensible and informed opinions???

Do you not know that insurance companies are actually making hundreds of millions of euro but not telling anyone about it including the public, the central bank, their share holders and every one else. There are monthly money fights using stacks of €500 notes, stained with the tears of the Irish drivers.

At least thats what a large section of the Boards motor contributors would have you believe!

Boskowski

Fair enough but if the insurance companies can't make any profits here even though the premiums are way higher then something else must be off. We all seem to know what it is but why isn't anything done about it? Isn't that exactly what a government's job supposedly is?

Liam McPoyle

visual wrote: »

Quinn when under for other reasons and is now liberty insurance not because claims brought it down.

I don't know all the details for other insurance companies but if the have spend their cash reserves else where it can hardly be blamed on claims and not earning enough by being the most expensive motor insurance companies in Europe if not the world.

It's an organised scam with media sound bites and zero proof.

Avg insurance is 1k (source RTE news) that means only 15 insured to payout for one whip lash claim.

So where is the facts and figures to support the usual media bites insurance companies put out.

Too many claims. Compared to what ? Where is the tangible proof.

Claims to high compared to UK but won't compare cost of insurance or the % taken in with paid out.

I'm tired of insurance companies crying wolf and hiking prices.

When we where forced to have insurance disc in window it was to combat uninsured drivers and lead to decreased insurance for all. Never happened instead cost went up.

The insurance industry here is dysfunctional no other way can they over charge and be one of the most expensive in the world yet claim they aren't able to make money.

Lol.

Below is the total injuries boards payments from 2006 to 2012.

2012 10,136 €217.94m
2011 9,833 €209.83m
2010 8,380 €186.63m
2009 8,643 €200.22m
2008 8,845 €217.16m
2007 8,208 €181.04m
2006 5,573 €115.28m

Source

It almost doubled in 6 years!!!!

The above are only payments that went as far as or through the injuries board.

It doesn't factor in what insurers pay out for property damage or injury claims that dont go to the board.

That illustrates why insurers cannot make money.

But sure leave the blinkers on, its easier to stay misinformed so you can rant about something you know nothing about.

Special Circumstances

The insurance industry could really really really do with some decent PR people who could forward all the important info without being condescending and aggressive. And going straight to useful answers rather than resorting to generic stock answers " blah we have data blah " , "losses blah" , "nobody understands us boohoo", "yer all crooks and fraudsters anyway".

That's not a personal attack on yourself businesscat, but your industry really does need some good pr. Years of frustrating and illogical encounters with insurers have coloured our opinions and made "greedy f##ckers" our first conclusion.

But telling us we're thick and waiting 2 weeks to produce useful sensible facts (as opposed to other industry "facts" like "all cars instantly become lethal on their 15th birthday ") is probably not the best way to counter years of unpleasant encounters with the industry.

You're not alone in this, not by a long way, it's not a personal thing. As much as the public have had a certain mindset formed by years of distasteful experiences, there seems to be a common attitude between all of the posters defending the industry against their "ungrateful fools" of customers.

ronan45

Just looking at Ireland AM about the insurance....
Insurance up 20% ...no....not for me! Same Details as all the other years in fact it came down by 10 Euro. Same Zero Penalty Points, Same Years NCB. Ohh and exact same car so no change there either...and same insurance company i have been with for years..
Has this also been the case with anyone?

Liam McPoyle

Special Circumstances wrote: »

The insurance industry could really really really do with some decent PR people who could forward all the important info without being condescending and aggressive. And going straight to useful answers rather than resorting to generic stock answers " blah we have data blah " , "losses blah" , "nobody understands us boohoo", "yer all crooks and fraudsters anyway".

That's not a personal attack on yourself businesscat, but your industry really does need some good pr. Years of frustrating and illogical encounters with insurers have coloured our opinions and made "greedy f##ckers" our first conclusion.

But telling us we're thick and waiting 2 weeks to produce useful sensible facts (as opposed to other industry "facts" like "all cars instantly become lethal on their 15th birthday ") is probably not the best way to counter years of unpleasant encounters with the industry.

You're not alone in this, not by a long way, it's not a personal thing. As much as the public have had a certain mindset formed by years of distasteful experiences, there seems to be a common attitude between all of the posters defending the industry against their "ungrateful fools" of customers.

If people choose to remain ill informed about things they feel strongly about or have strong opinions about, why should I or anyone else have to do the leg work for them?

They all have google.

They can all access as much information as they need but most don't bother their arse and instead post in here shaking their virtual fists at the evils of the insurance industry!

People trying to explain how the industry works have to qualify their opinions with hard evidence but people that deride it are free to do so without anything other than their own anecdotal evidence, that's not very balanced , is it.

the_syco

Wibbs wrote: »

Because the claims payouts are among the highest in the world and encourage compo culture in a huge way.

To add to this, it would seem that the insurance companies are seen as an easy mark, and don't put up much of a fight when asked for money over silly things. If they hired some private detectives over serial claimers, I doubt there'd be such high payouts.

Also, do the insurance companies here still payout in one "lotto" bulk sum, as opposed to over time, every month?

ba_barabus

visual wrote: »

Quinn when under for other reasons and is now liberty insurance not because claims brought it down.

I'd love to know the other reasons you speak of as I remember it very differently.

Liam McPoyle

ba_barabus wrote: »

I'd love to know the other reasons.

Quinn were using funds from the insurance arm of the business to prop up their other arms to the extent that their claims reserves got so low that there was a very real chance they would go bust.

That's why there is an extra percentage point on our insurance levies.

Jawgap

JustTheOne wrote: »

Why should claims come down to mace insurance cheaper for you?

Because damages are supposed to make you 'whole' again insofar as damages can. They are not supposed to enrich you. Some of the awards are crazy here.

ba_barabus

Business Cat wrote: »

Quinn were using funds from the insurance arm of the business to prop up their other arms to the extent that their claims reserves got so low that there was a very real chance they would go bust.

That's why there is an extra percentage point on our insurance levies.

Not forgetting they massively under priced the UK market to the extent that their reserves couldn't cover the payouts.

Therefore ridiculous business practices + large payouts brought Quinn Insurance down.

Odyssey 2005

Littlehorny wrote: »

Whiplash payout in England- 5 thousand, whiplash payout in Ireland- 15 thousand. Why is the payout 3 times the size? As everyone knows a whiplash claim is virtually impossible to disprove leaving it open to all kinds of abuse.

Maybe the irish just have Some Neck.:P

Liam McPoyle

the_syco wrote: »

To add to this, it would seem that the insurance companies are seen as an easy mark, and don't put up much of a fight when asked for money over silly things. If they hired some private detectives over serial claimers, I doubt there'd be such high payouts.

Also, do the insurance companies here still payout in one "lotto" bulk sum, as opposed to over time, every month?

A big part of why claims costs have rocketed is IMO due to injuriesboard.ie.

Go on to the site, there is an "estimate your claim" engine.

The starting point for a minor whiplash injury is up to over €14k, if that site is not an invitation to make false or exaggerated claims I don't know what is.

Its like something from Better Call Saul ffs!!

visual

Business Cat wrote: »

Lol.

Below is the total injuries boards payments from 2006 to 2012.

2012 10,136 €217.94m
2011 9,833 €209.83m
2010 8,380 €186.63m
2009 8,643 €200.22m
2008 8,845 €217.16m
2007 8,208 €181.04m
2006 5,573 €115.28m

Source

It almost doubled in 6 years!!!!

The above are only payments that went as far as or through the injuries board.

It doesn't factor in what insurers pay out for property damage or injury claims that dont go to the board.

That illustrates why insurers cannot make money.

But sure leave the blinkers on, its easier to stay misinformed so you can rant about something you know nothing about.

This is the usual hype 1/2 a story let's try fill in the other half.
considering there is 2.5 million cars on the road at an avg insurance cost of 1k then 2500 million taken in and 1/10th paid out in claims

blinkers are off when it comes to insurance companies crying wolf
unless the full story is told and it never is.

Special Circumstances

Business Cat wrote: »

If people choose to remain ill informed about things they feel strongly about or have strong opinions about, why should I or anyone else have to do the leg work for them?

They all have google.

They can all access as much information as they need but most don't bother their arse and instead post in here shaking their virtual fists at the evils of the insurance industry!

People trying to explain how the industry works have to qualify their opinions with hard evidence but people that deride it are free to do so without anything other than their own anecdotal evidence, that's not very balanced , is it.

Ah but the "15 year old cars are all deadly dangerous" is a balance reasonable and defendable opinion, and not a lazy and poorly formed one. Or should rational and fair analysis be a one way thing?


PR is about perception. As long as we are legally obliged to purchase your product I guess ye can continue be have in ways that encourage very negative perceptions... but don't expect anyone to regard ye as being much better than lawyers making a mint from defending scumbags.

L1011

freddieot wrote: »

I suppose one idea would be to totally open up the market and allow foreign insurance companies in other EU countries to offer cover to Irish citizens. I'm not really sure why this is not possible now - no doubt someone can explain the situation.

They did that. Setanta came in from Malta. Setanta went bust, leaving lots of people without cover.

CardinalJ

visual wrote:

The insurance industry here is dysfunctional no other way can they over charge and be one of the most expensive in the world yet claim they aren't able to make money.

If you want to compare Irish premiums to EU premiums, you can't just ignore average claims cost in Ireland. The industry isn't responsible for the fact that someone will get an 'easy' 12-15k when they're rear ended. That doesn't happen in any other European country you're comparing the 'dysfunctional' market here to.

Insurance companies aren't going to go to court on every claim to fight for a more reasonable settlement when they know the Judge will go against them and they have to pay two sets of costs. Again, insurance companies have no control over the judiciary.

Finally, how many people who get into a minor fender bender will decide they will claim. The % of people involved in accidents who are 'injured' is going up all the time. In certain parts of the country you're far more likely to be 'injured' than others. Ireland's claims culture is changing to something like the UKs only the money involved is a multiple. People who are genuinely injured are 100% entitled to claim, but more people are claiming and are getting far more money.

CardinalJ

the_syco wrote:

To add to this, it would seem that the insurance companies are seen as an easy mark, and don't put up much of a fight when asked for money over silly things. If they hired some private detectives over serial claimers, I doubt there'd be such high payouts.

Private Investigators cost a few thousand and you rarely get results. But they are used sometimes

the_syco wrote:

Also, do the insurance companies here still payout in one "lotto" bulk sum, as opposed to over time, every month?

Paying out the average claim over months would cost far more as you have to pay to administer it. Also the person the insurance company insures would have a claim open against their policy for even longer.

Liam McPoyle

visual wrote: »

This is the usual hype 1/2 a story let's try fill in the other half.
considering there is 2.5 million cars on the road at an avg insurance cost of 1k then 2500 million taken in and 1/10th paid out in claims

blinkers are off when it comes to insurance companies crying wolf
unless the full story is told and it never is.

Did you read my post?

The figures on the previous page are only payments that made it to the injuries board ie they do not include injuries claims settled between the insurer and the clients, it also doesn't factor in payments for replacements and repairs for damaged vehicles.

There is also the little thing about insurers paying their running costs, you know, wages, stationary, light and heat, their own reinsurance costs, share dividends etc.

You are taking a very simplistic view of things.

To Elland Back

visual wrote: »

This is the usual hype 1/2 a story let's try fill in the other half.
considering there is 2.5 million cars on the road at an avg insurance cost of 1k then 2500 million taken in and 1/10th paid out in claims

blinkers are off when it comes to insurance companies crying wolf
unless the full story is told and it never is.

Doesn't include settlements outside the Injuries Board, many of them for 7 figures in the High Court
Doesn't include damages to the cars themselves or other property they damage
Doesn't include legal costs
Not every car is contributing to the insurance pot. Uninsured driving is rife and your premium is loaded to pay for this
I haven't paid anywhere near €1k for insurance in the last 20 years and neither have the majority of mature drivers. I doubt the average is at that level
Every business has costs (labour & running costs). Insurers are no different

Vicxas

The problem is, insurance companies have us over a barrel. We need insurance, we need to have insurance. People are ramping up claims thanks to the expanding claims culture.

To Elland Back

Vicxas wrote: »

The problem is, insurance companies have us over a barrel. We need insurance, we need to have insurance. People are ramping up claims thanks to the expanding claims culture.

And the medical, legal and motor trade professions have no part in this????

Special Circumstances

To Elland Back wrote: »

And the medical, legal and motor trade professions have no part in this????

[LegalCat]You don't understand the legal profession. Take off your blinkers and educate yourself on it.[/LegalCat]

ohnonotgmail

Business Cat wrote: »

Lol.

Below is the total injuries boards payments from 2006 to 2012.

2012 10,136 €217.94m
2011 9,833 €209.83m
2010 8,380 €186.63m
2009 8,643 €200.22m
2008 8,845 €217.16m
2007 8,208 €181.04m
2006 5,573 €115.28m

Source

It almost doubled in 6 years!!!!

The above are only payments that went as far as or through the injuries board.

It doesn't factor in what insurers pay out for property damage or injury claims that dont go to the board.

That illustrates why insurers cannot make money.

But sure leave the blinkers on, its easier to stay misinformed so you can rant about something you know nothing about.

you missed an important number from that source. The number of awards also doubled in those 5 years. So is it not that the board are now processing more claims that would have gone to court otherwise and that would have cost insurance companies more? Is that not the point of the injuries board? Not necessarily to reduce the awards themselves but to reduce the costs of making those awards by cutting out time spent arguing in court?