Giant Propel Advanced SL2 Sizing

Glencairin18

Bought a (2015) size S Giant Propel Advanced SL2 in July as the giant dealer recommended that size as recommended by Giant . I'm 5'6" . Took it to a leading bike fitter and the bike is too big !!!
The height of the integrated seat post will do a 5'9"/5'10" the way it is !
Giant or Dealer do not want to know !!
Bike was only put together and took to fitters , never cycled .
Any advice here ? Anyone had trouble with a Propel sizing ?

ricardospeedo

Glencairin18 wrote: »

Bought a (2015) size S Giant Propel Advanced SL2 in July as the giant dealer recommended that size as recommended by Giant . I'm 5'6" . Took it to a leading bike fitter and the bike is too big !!!
The height of the integrated seat post will do a 5'9"/5'10" the way it is !
Giant or Dealer do not want to know !!
Bike was only put together and took to fitters , never cycled .
Any advice here ? Anyone had trouble with a Propel sizing ?

Having bought a small propel I understand your dilemma .The top tube is approx 54cm ctc and the small propel does not equate to a small tcr which has a virtual top tube of 52cm.

The sizing on the propels are definetly not right when comparing most other bikes and I would say you would have to be 5 foot nine to make it work properly .

Glencairin18

ricardospeedo wrote: »

Having bought a small propel I understand your dilemma .The top tube is approx 54cm ctc and the small propel does not equate to a small tcr which has a virtual top tube of 52cm.

The sizing on the propels are definetly not right when comparing most other bikes and I would say you would have to be 5 foot nine to make it work properly .

Yes I had a TCR size S and had no problems !
They definitely have this one got wrong ?!!

eeeee

Moved to main forum as it appears you're after advice. If you want to sell the bike I can move it back to adverts where that charter will apply.

jon1981

Have you asked the store if they'd swap it for another brand or model

shaka

Lbs advised anyone buying to go down one size , I'm 5 11 and size I'd of needed was S. The next frame up had me too stretched out (lumbar disc issues ).

What was the dealers reply when you went back to him ?

Glencairin18

jon1981 wrote: »

Have you asked the store if they'd swap it for another brand or model

No , I might know more tomorrow hopefully

Glencairin18

shaka wrote: »

Lbs advised anyone buying to go down one size , I'm 5 11 and size I'd of needed was S. The next frame up had me too stretched out (lumbar disc issues ).

What was the dealers reply when you went back to him ?

Dealer won't take it back and is leaving it in Giants hands and they are saying no as well.

Glencairin18

jon1981 wrote: »

Have you asked the store if they'd swap it for another brand or model

I did suggest another frame but Dealer is saying that it's Giants decision .

Glencairin18

jon1981 wrote: »

Have you asked the store if they'd swap it for another brand or model

They are not budging

jon1981

Thats poor form. Given that the LBS doesn't stock all bikes and sizes therefore you cannot try the bike for size in the store, there should be some comeback in the event the bike is ordered but doesn't fit.


I presume the sales of good act here applies? Something about entitlement to a refund or exchange at least? I assume the LBS made the judgement of the size and advised you it was the size for you, which turns out is not the case?

Leroy42

Well, if the bike is too big then you need to replace it. If the LBS is unwilling to be of help then you may need to sell it privately, but make sure you tell all your cycling buddies, this thread, etc that the LBS, refused to help you out.

This local knowledge and help is supposed to be the USP of the LBS, but it appears that this one seems intent on screwing you over. They could very easily work with Giant to move on the bike without too much fuss (and nobody losing any money) and replace it with a proper sized one.

Very short sighted by the LBS to be so unhelpful. I actually cannot fathom how the LBS thinks this is an issue that he should not resolve.

BTW, you bought the bike from the dealer, not Giant. The LBS is making the decision. Whether they get any help from Giant is not your issue.

TBH, if the LBS relied solely on the Giant rep for a sizing guide then I would question whether they have any knowledge of cycling at all. These things are all guidelines and I know my LBS has (or at least pretends to have) knowledge of the workings of different frames.groupsets etc as they have dealt with them before and have the feedback

jon1981

Indeed, i'm in the market for a new bike and I am relying on the LBS to help me pick the right fit. I want to stay clear of this place if this is how they treat buyers, and you're spending a good few pennies!

DirkVoodoo

Not sure what route you can go down, but if the sizing of the Propel is that different to the TCR, then I'd really be pointing out to the dealer that Giant's sizing charts are incorrect and use the same guide for TCR and Propel.

They recommend 5'4" to 5'9" for a Small.

jon1981

OP, out of interest was it possible to shorten the stem or change the seat post to get it to fit? Some seat posts are set back a couple of cm.



vs

DirkVoodoo

Propel advanced SL2 has an integrated seatpost.

And he said he went for a bike fit, which didn't resolve the issue.

Glencairin18

jon1981 wrote: »

Thats poor form. Given that the LBS doesn't stock all bikes and sizes therefore you cannot try the bike for size in the store, there should be some comeback in the event the bike is ordered but doesn't fit.


I presume the sales of good act here applies? Something about entitlement to a refund or exchange at least? I assume the LBS made the judgement of the size and advised you it was the size for you, which turns out is not the case?

LBS ?? Sales of Goods , I'll check it out ! Dealer made judgement on size , yes !
Dealer now says Giant Rep says to go to the Giant Store in Cork to get fitted on my own expense ! The Edge in Cork already told me the bike is too big !!

Glencairin18

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Not sure what route you can go down, but if the sizing of the Propel is that different to the TCR, then I'd really be pointing out to the dealer that Giant's sizing charts are incorrect and use the same guide for TCR and Propel.

They recommend 5'4" to 5'9" for a Small.

I pointed out that but it's falling on deaf ears with the dealer and Giant Rep !

Glencairin18

jon1981 wrote: »

Have you asked the store if they'd swap it for another brand or model

Yes but no joy with them and the Giant Rep .

jon1981

Glencairin18 wrote: »

LBS ?? Sales of Goods , I'll check it out ! Dealer made judgement on size , yes !
Dealer now says Giant Rep says to go to the Giant Store in Cork to get fitted on my own expense ! The Edge in Cork already told me the bike is too big !!

Stand your ground, explain that you're paying them for their expertise , not just the bike, it's their job to advise the best bike for you and it's not good enough. Explain that they have a responsibility to ensure the bike is fit for purpose.

I don't know where you are located but there is a store in Dublin - http://www.giant-dublin.ie/en-IE/ ... why not there? Also why can't they take the advice from Giant and manage you as their customer.

Leroy42

The LBS is being a dick, there are no two ways about it.

They recommended the size, sold it to you, and pocketed the profit. Now they want you to sort out the mess.


It's really simple to solve. LBS rings giant saying they made a bit of a mistake but the bike is hardly used so can easily be sold as ex-display. Can Ginat sent them a better fitting bike to allow the customer to be happy and they both will take a small hit on the profit they would have made.

If the LBS is good (all signs point to it isn't) then shifting on a ex-display model won't be particularly difficult.

Go back to the LBS and demand that they resolve the situation. It has nothing to do with you and Giant. The contract of sale is between you and the LBS. Mention the small claim court and you will gong to the Commission of Consumer affairs.

I have no issue with the LBS making a mistake on the sizing, plenty of things can and do go wrong with products, its how they are dealt with that makes the difference.

DirkVoodoo

ricardospeedo wrote: »

Having bought a small propel I understand your dilemma .The top tube is approx 54cm ctc and the small propel does not equate to a small tcr which has a virtual top tube of 52cm.

Just had a look at the geometry charts. Can you explain where you got this from?

Effective top tube length

Medium TCR: 555mm
Medium Propel: 555mm
Small TCR: 535mm
Small Propel: 535mm

I had a medium TCR with stock 100mm stem and it was a little short for me, I'm 177cm with a 71.1cm saddle height, can't remember reach off top of my head. By this, a Medium propel should fit me perfectly.

OP, did the bike fitter make a recommendation to cut the post or did he just size you on it as it is??

jon1981

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/_pdf/bikes/uk/giantbicycles-77270-propel.advanced.pro.2.pdf
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/_pdf/bikes/uk/giantbicycles-77276-tcr.advanced.sl.2.pdf

The small TCR has 46.5cm in brackets beside the size and the small propel has 50cm. what does this mean? Is virtually the small propel larger than the TCR? I mean they both have 53.5cm top tubes so assuming the angles are vastly difference.

DirkVoodoo

jon1981 wrote: »

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/_pdf/bikes/uk/giantbicycles-77270-propel.advanced.pro.2.pdf
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/_pdf/bikes/uk/giantbicycles-77276-tcr.advanced.sl.2.pdf

The small TCR has 46.5cm in brackets beside the size and the small propel has 50cm. what does this mean? Is virtually the small propel larger than the TCR? I mean they both have 53.5cm top tubes so assuming the angles are vastly difference.

Manufacturers traditionally give the seat tube measurement.

The TCR has a sloping (compact) frame that Giant prefer. They ditched this for the Propel to reduce front area, so it has a traditional horizontal top tube. The sizing will be the same, just the standover height and seat tube length will be different.

Just my interpretation, may be incorrect!

oconnpad

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Manufacturers traditionally give the seat tube measurement.

The TCR has a sloping (compact) frame that Giant prefer. They ditched this for the Propel to reduce front area, so it has a traditional horizontal top tube. The sizing will be the same, just the standover height and seat tube length will be different.

Just my interpretation, may be incorrect!

Yeah i thought that as well.

Using the Stack and Reach numbers are the best way to compare bikes i thought.

I suppose the issue comes up if someone thinks they are say a 50cm frame, that mean they'd be on a small propel and a medium TCR and when you compare those numbers you'd see the TCR is too big.


For OP, sorry to hear about this mess for you.
Would this not fall under consumer law that bike is not fit for purpose?
# Goods must be fit for their purpose – they must do what they are reasonably expected to do.

Glencairin18

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Just had a look at the geometry charts. Can you explain where you got this from?

Effective top tube length

Medium TCR: 555mm
Medium Propel: 555mm
Small TCR: 535mm
Small Propel: 535mm

I had a medium TCR with stock 100mm stem and it was a little short for me, I'm 177cm with a 71.1cm saddle height, can't remember reach off top of my head. By this, a Medium propel should fit me perfectly.

OP, did the bike fitter make a recommendation to cut the post or did he just size you on it as it is??

The bike fitter took approximately took 48mm off the seat post but still at that it will still fit a 5'9" / 5'10" rider .

iwillhtfu

Glencairin18 wrote: »

The bike fitter took approximately took 48mm off the seat post but still at that it will still fit a 5'9" / 5'10" rider .

Ahh.. if he's already cut the seat post that's an entirely different matter tbh.

I'd be very suprised if you get any joy from them.

Surely the fitter had an idea before he took out the hack saw?

Glencairin18

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Ahh.. if he's already cut the seat post that's an entirely different matter tbh.

I'd be very suprised if you get any joy from them.

Surely the fitter had an idea before he took out the hack saw?

Yes but Well , as I said earlier I was advised to go down a size to XL from my normal size if I was buying a propel , which is S and the dealer said NO, a size S in a propel is your size which Giant recommend . This dealer does not do fitting . The bike as it is , cut will still do a rider of 5'9"/5'10" . I told the dealer I don't want my money back and I would take a different frame of the same value but no he won't do that .
Even as it is unridden and yes , cut , Giant would still have a client for this be it sponsorship or sell on .

iwillhtfu

I feel your pain but I'd guess they're only sales men and the size "guide" is just that a guide not a guarantee of fitment

I'm 5'10 but my torso is longer than average therefore I take those guides with a pinch of salt.

Hopefully you get some good will but as far as selling on would you buy a frame that's been built up then fitted to someone (including cutting) and then taken apart again. I would myself but I'd want it heavily discounted.

shaka

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Ahh.. if he's already cut the seat post that's an entirely different matter tbh.

I'd be very suprised if you get any joy from them.

Surely the fitter had an idea before he took out the hack saw?

+1 on that one your lbs/rep isn't likely to do much after the seatpost has been cut.
Surely someone doing a proper bike fit would know prior to cutting the seat-post could they sort out your bike fit

oakley2097

I'm 5'10' and I just got a medium propel advance and the reach is just perfect

How much have you cycled it ? what is wrong with the fit ?

DirkVoodoo

This is unfortunately the problem with integrated seat posts.

Even if you were fit properly, when the time comes to sell it on, you have to sell it to someone with the same leg length as yourself.

I can understand how annoyed you must feel by this. A dealer SHOULD be able to get your approximate size and then it can be dialled in through a good bike fit. I think you have grounds for complaint.

My first road bike was a L Giant SCR 2.0...I was told that because of the compact frame, you need to go a size up. Obviously totally incorrect and the size caused me no end of pain as I was too stretched out.

At the same time, integrated seat posts are a total 'mare. I don't know why they are sold outside of teams. Most reviews will tell you they don't provide a noticeable increase in comfort and for the amateur rider who may need to adjust position, throw the bike in the car or travel abroad with a bike box, they are not practical. I know, I sound like captain Hindsight, but I can appreciate the dealer is being given a bike with a modified seatpost now.

Still, his mistake in the first place!

EDIT: Perhaps we should be asking questions of the fitter. I mean, height wise you fit right into the S category, unless you have freakishly distorted proportions then it should fit somehow. Would you consider a second bike fit opinion?

Leroy42

Reading back over this thread, whilst the LBS does have questions to answer and really should be helping you out, I agree with DirkVoodoo in that the bike fitter does appear to have done a decent job at all.

From my reading of your posts, you bought the bike, took it to a bike fitter who put you on the bike and decided to put the seatpost.

After cutting the seatpost then worked out that the seat was still too high and I assume there is no more seatpost to safely cut.

I trust you didn't pay for this advice.

I have never had a bike fitting, but seen the videos etc and it appears that they try to build a picture of the perfect bike bit from looking at dimensions etc. It seems this guys just lumped off some seatpost to se how that would work!

Lumen

A picture of the bike as its currently set up would be useful.

oakley2097

I think a summary is in order, correct me If im wrong

1) Went to bike shop, purchased Giant propel SL in size small based on dealer recommendation on Giants own sizing chart

2) Went for bike fit and bike fitter cut integrated seatpost and after decided bike was too small

3) OP hasn't cycled bike because he was told it was too small

Question is the seatpost the same length as on your tcr ? if yes, then go cycle the bike and see what its like

Who was the bike fitter ??

DirkVoodoo

OP, I just think you need to take more off the seatpost. As mentioned, if you ride a small TCR this should fit fine. 48mm is really not that much. Here is the propel geometry chart:



Here is uncut versus cut:





The seat clamp itself allows 45mm of adjustment according to the chart. But you should be able to cut at least 150mm off the post, it's probably marked.

This is an older Giant ISP cutting guide and you can see that the amount you can take off is quite generous. It looks to be level with the head tube:

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/_upload_be/bikes/models/manual/ISP.pdf

Glencairin18

shaka wrote: »

+1 on that one your lbs/rep isn't likely to do much after the seatpost has been cut.
Surely someone doing a proper bike fit would know prior to cutting the seat-post could they sort out your bike fit

Point is still though it's cut its still too big !

iwillhtfu

Out of curiosity how much was the frame and what would it be worth selling for?

Someone might be interested in the frame as is.

Wow I just Google the frame set price :eek: That's one hell of a price tag I can see why you're pissed off.

Glencairin18

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Out of curiosity how much was the frame and what would it be worth selling for?

Someone might be interested in the frame as is.

Wow I just Google the frame set price :eek: That's one hell of a price tag I can see why you're pissed off.

Yes ! The bike is €4899 ! Obviously I got discount . If this is not sorted I'll have to let it go for €4K

jon1981

Jaysus no wonder they won't swap that thing! Guess they dont want a near 5k bike sitting on the floor. Didn't realise the price, why the hell did the fitter take a blade to that without ensuring it can fit?!

Glencairin18

jon1981 wrote: »

Jaysus no wonder they won't swap that thing! Guess they dont want a near 5k bike sitting on the floor. Didn't realise the price, why the hell did the fitter take a blade to that without ensuring it can fit?!

It is what it is but the bike I'd still perfect for a bigger guy than me

Glencairin18

Glencairin18 wrote: »

It is what it is but the bike I'd still perfect for a bigger guy than me

😳

jon1981

Is it the leg length that's the problem? I presume no more can be taking off the stem?

Edit: meant seat post.

Glencairin18

jon1981 wrote: »

Is it the leg length that's the problem? I presume no more can be taking off the stem?

Yes it's the leg length . Yes there's more that can be taken off the stem but you would have to take too much for a guy like me with a 28" inside leg . That would defeat the purpose and the bike would be out of proportion .