And still it goes on ... Caruso positive for EPO

MPFGLB

Giampaolo Caruso (Katusha) positive for EPO. Retro tested sample from 2012. Was also named in Operation Puerto


There must be re -testing going on and could mean more to come

MPFGLB

Race Radio ‏@TheRaceRadio
"There have been rumors for years of Russian and Chinese EPO that did not show up in tests. Wonder if Caruso positive is 1st of many?"

odyssey06

Was he on their startlist for Vuelta?

Does that mean they only have 8 riders now - sorry if stupid question, not familiar with the rules...

Eamonnator

@MPFGLB

Have you a link for this, please?

Eamonnator

odyssey06 wrote: »

Was he on their startlist for Vuelta?

Does that mean they only have 8 riders now - sorry if stupid question, not familiar with the rules...

He is on the start list for the Vuelta.

Inquitus

Eamonnator

Provisional start list for Vuelta:

http://procyclingstats.com/race.php?id=150005&c=3

Eamonnator

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giampaolo-caruso-returns-positive-epo-test/

Second suspension for Katusha this year.
So, either they leave MPCC or don't take part in The Vuelta?

Inquitus

Eamonnator wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giampaolo-caruso-returns-positive-epo-test/

Second suspension for Katusha this year.
So, either they leave MPCC or don't take part in The Vuelta?

Leave the MPCC no doubt

Glass Prison 1214

Eamonnator wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giampaolo-caruso-returns-positive-epo-test/

Second suspension for Katusha this year.
So, either they leave MPCC or don't take part in The Vuelta?

They will take the third option, delay requesting his B sample until the last minute, which will allow them to start the Vuelta and suspend themselves afterwards. Exactly what Astana did last year for the tour of Lombardy.

MPFGLB

Are there not new rules now on Team suspension by UCI

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng -
Note the new UCI rule on collective team suspension says clock starts on notification, not the date of the test


Looks like MPCC are least of their problems

Darkglasses

I really hope Katusha as a team evaporate into thin air.

MPFGLB

https://twitter.com/inrng/status/633700091891724288

MPFGLB

Shane Stokes has gotten all the relevant info

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/08/caruso-facing-potential-lengthy-ban-after-positive-a-sample-for-epo-could-katusha-miss-vuelta-a-espana/

Undercover Elephant

MPFGLB wrote: »

Shane Stokes has gotten all the relevant info

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/08/caruso-facing-potential-lengthy-ban-after-positive-a-sample-for-epo-could-katusha-miss-vuelta-a-espana/

In other words, the UCI has interpreted the UCI's rules to mean something completely different from what the UCI rules actually say. But ... they're committed to cleaning up.

MPFGLB

odyssey06 wrote: »

Was he on their startlist for Vuelta?

Does that mean they only have 8 riders now - sorry if stupid question, not familiar with the rules...

He can be replaced up to the day before the race starts with another rider from the 14 men provisional team list

Darkglasses

http://www.katushateam.com/en/news/press/statement-on-giampaolo-caruso

Bearing in mind the anti-doping regulations, the team will wait until the analysis of the B sample has been conducted before taking any further action or making further comment.

However, Team Katusha would like to underline that this news comes as a complete shock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

MPFGLB

I love that film Casablanca...one of my favourite of all times and such great lines

Best put downs ever

Ugarte: Rick You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.

godtabh

Must watch it

Eamonnator

We'll always have Paris!

terrydel

Fair enough they are trying to and succeeding in catching people, but professional cycling is still filthy from top to bottom, anyone thinking otherwise is seriously naive.

godtabh

terrydel wrote: »

Fair enough they are trying to and succeeding in catching people, but professional cycling is still filthy from top to bottom, anyone thinking otherwise is seriously naive.

Dont think its that bad but if it is proven that there is new designer drugs to beat tests I'll take that back

MPFGLB

godtabh wrote: »

Dont think its that bad but if it is proven that there is new designer drugs to beat tests I'll take that back

I agree ...There are dopers but the net is closing. So far its been alot of the older brigade caught this year

No sport will ever be 100% clean as it involves humans, rewards and personal avarice and it would be niave to expect it to ever be

However to damn the lot is not credible either.

I have more faith now in cycling than in other sport where everything is brushed under the carpet. It is actually a good sign that riders are being caught
Worse if they were not in my book

Darkglasses

I also feel kind of relieved that mostly, it's coming from the same circles (Katusha, Astana and some of the Italians). If there were riders popping up at all teams I'd think it was a dirtier picture overall.

godtabh

I think the likes of Paolini's generation are finally getting caught or retiring. The current generation of Froome, Contador (probably shouldnt include him), Nibali etc are probably the first predominantly clean generation. The next generation, the likes of Thomas, I think will the cleanest generation going

MPFGLB

Hear Oleg Tinkov on twitter criticizing (for doping) the Italians & Russians as stupid & greedy

The words pot & kettle come to mind

godtabh

He probably is right that the italians and russians are a mess but it is a bit rich coming from him

MPFGLB

godtabh wrote: »

I think the likes of Paolini's generation are finally getting caught or retiring. The current generation of Froome, Contador (probably shouldnt include him), Nibali etc are probably the first predominantly clean generation. The next generation, the likes of Thomas, I think will the cleanest generation going

Thomas is only a year younger than Froome & Nibali. But I have faith in most under 30 but again the culture of short contracts, team who pressurise for results,lack of rider union support , etc make the culture more conductive to certain individuals succumbing to dark side

I want the UCI to re test all top 10 riders samples for every GT from 2010 to 2013 to start with

godtabh

I thought there was a bigger gap

Eamonnator

fishfoodie wrote: »

Isn't it marvelous how all the clean teams riders are able to beat all these dirty riders despite their doping ....

Maybe, just maybe, it shows that a really good clean rider is better than a mediocre doping rider.

MPFGLB

Sometimes even EPO cannot make a race horse out of a donkey

A very talented clen rider can beat a poor doped rider. So not sure what conclusion if any can be made about positives and ability

eeeee

Posts deleted for speculation. the same rules apply as ever, speculation isn't allowed, have a goo at the charter number 6 yadda yadda: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056113049

MPFGLB

<snip>


1) I can't remember where I saw it but there was lost of evidence that EPO produces different results for different people. So if you are a good rider it could make you great but for others it may not ever make you great but maybe just a bit better. Maybe enough to get a contract. and for others not that great of an improvement

<snip>

The point is to say because Dan Martin beat Caruso in a race and Caruso was known to have taken EPO it doesn't follow Dan Martin has . Such sweeping conclusions are not valid

Daroxtar

MPFGLB wrote: »

Sometimes even EPO cannot make a race horse out of a donkey

A very talented clen rider can beat a poor doped rider. So not sure what conclusion if any can be made about positives and ability

Freudian slip much?

fishfoodie

MPFGLB wrote: »

1) I can't remember where I saw it but there was lost of evidence that EPO produces different results for different people. So if you are a good rider it could make you great but for others it may not ever make you great but maybe just a bit better. Maybe enough to get a contract. and for others not that great of an improvement

2) and of course in Armstrong's time the level playing filed was differnt then because most were using PEDS

The point is to say because Dan Martin beat Caruso in a race and Caruso was known to have taken EPO it doesn't follow Dan Martin has . Such sweeping conclusions are not valid

Responders in the vernacular; but then that's what made Lance, the, not quite donkey, to a multi TdF winner. He went from a best finish of 36th, to 7 wins in a row. That, along with insisting that his team mates had were part of the same doping program.

If you offered most of the Pro cyclists out there a 35 place improvement in their clean TdF position, if they just took a little dope; I'm afraid you'd find that too many of them would just dope :mad:

MPFGLB

But the point is not everyone will improve 35 places

And anyway now not everyone is taking illicit substances so most don't need to take EPO to win if most are clean as I believe they are (with exceptions I have my doubts about)

Amrstrong era was different and thus not the same conclusions can be drawn with todays riders

I will leave it there as want to be around to post for the Vuelta

JK.BMC

Darkglasses wrote: »

http://www.katushateam.com/en/news/press/statement-on-giampaolo-caruso

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

Brilliant analogy!
Katusha caught doping? My God!

RobFowl

Riis was a donkey who with EPO and whatever else turned into a rider who dominated a TDF

Spare me this racehorse ****e

MPFGLB

RobFowl wrote: »

Riis was a donkey who with EPO and whatever else turned into a rider who dominated a TDF

Spare me this racehorse ****e

IS Riis everyone ?.Is he riding today

Spare me this blanket one or two examples from the past s**** fits all ..or at least be respectful of others opinions

RobFowl

MPFGLB wrote: »

IS Riis everyone ?.Is he riding today

Spare me this blanket one or two examples from the past s**** fits all ..or at least be respectful of others opinions

Doping makes crap riders into world beaters. If you want more than examples like TDF winners I can throw peer reviewed articles like this at you all day long http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/10912888
Respecting others opinions is all very well except when they are demonstrably wrong ....

Russman

Does anyone know if they're catching fewer or more dopers now than, say, back in the LA era ? Or is it a similar-ish number of positives year on year ? Does it even matter?

I'm just curious as to why for example the LA era is deemed different, or why the narrative that "cycling has changed" is the accepted wisdom. When or why did it change ? It's human nature to cheat or to try to gain an advantage where possible, that hasn't changed. How successful has "Fair Play" been in soccer ?? There have been enough donkeys turned into racehorses far more recently than Riis, (which was what, almost 20 years ago now), for a lot of the ingrained opinion on the sport to still be at least somewhat relevant IMO.

Macy0161

LA era is deemed different because there was no test for EPO, and limited tests for other drugs such as testosterone. Dopers just had to stay under the 50% limit (which wasn't even there when the likes of Riis (Mr 60%) were really taking the píss). So while there is likely micro dosing for an advantage still going on, with an EPO test and the bio passport, potential gains are much less.

They're moving in the right direction with night time testing. The next step imo is more retro testing, and increasing sample collection. Not just an A and a B sample, but also a C, D, E, F, G - commit or at least threaten to test a sample each year up to the statute of limitations.

MPFGLB

RobFowl wrote: »

Doping makes crap riders into world beaters. If you want more than examples like TDF winners I can throw peer reviewed articles like this at you all day long http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/10912888
Repeating others opinions is all very well except when they are demonstrably wrong ....

MY point wasn't that it doesn't turn some riders into winners but that its doesn't turn EVERYONE into winners like Caruso , Inklinsky brothers,etc and was in rebuttal to the point that if guys on EPO are being beaten then EVERYONE beating them is on EPO

But it seems nuances of debate are not appreciated on here

Lusk_Doyle

MPFGLB wrote: »

MY point wasn't that it doesn't turn some riders into winners but that its doesn't turn EVERYONE into winners like Caruso , Inklinsky brothers,etc and was in rebuttal to the point that if guys on EPO are being beaten then EVERYONE beating them is on EPO

But it seems nuances of debate are not appreciated on here

Do you not know who RobFowl is? He can have things done to you...

godtabh

Macy0161 wrote: »

LA era is deemed different because there was no test for EPO, and limited tests for other drugs such as testosterone. Dopers just had to stay under the 50% limit (which wasn't even there when the likes of Riis (Mr 60%) were really taking the píss). So while there is likely micro dosing for an advantage still going on, with an EPO test and the bio passport, potential gains are much less.

They're moving in the right direction with night time testing. The next step imo is more retro testing, and increasing sample collection. Not just an A and a B sample, but also a C, D, E, F, G - commit or at least threaten to test a sample each year up to the statute of limitations.

Personally I think every grand tour over the last decade should be retested. Not every rider but maybe top 10 and all classification winners, stage winners and such

Zyzz

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Do you not know who RobFowl is? He can have things done to you...

Just wait till he starts throwing peer reviewed articles at you in real life..

gordongekko

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-will-not-suspend-katusha-after-caruso-positive/

No ban.

irishrover99

I don't know how you guys enjoy watching cycling with all the is he/isn't he doping. I believe what most of the world also thinks and love watching it and that way i don't get upset by the result as i believe its level playing field.
Just enjoy it and leave the politics out of it. You'll enjoy it more

Macy0161

irishrover99 wrote: »

I don't know how you guys enjoy watching cycling with all the is he/isn't he doping. I believe what most of the world also thinks and love watching it and that way i don't get upset by the result as i believe its level playing field.
Just enjoy it and leave the politics out of it. You'll enjoy it more

I can separate the watching the cycling from the is he/ isn't he. It's not that hard to enjoy the race, and then also have an interest in the background.

The only thing that the exposure of doping in cycling has done has made me much more cynical about other sports, like football, which have sod all testing and much more financial incentive to actually dope!

godtabh

gordongekko wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-will-not-suspend-katusha-after-caruso-positive/

No ban.

For the team

happytramp

irishrover99 wrote: »

I don't know how you guys enjoy watching cycling with all the is he/isn't he doping. I believe what most of the world also thinks and love watching it and that way i don't get upset by the result as i believe its level playing field.
Just enjoy it and leave the politics out of it. You'll enjoy it more

Ha, you clearly didn't experience the glory that was the Lance Armstrong thread 2012/2013...... good times.