Lock removed without warning

DirkVoodoo

So, my parking woes on Carysfort avenue go like this:

Myself and a colleague used to lock our bikes to a gate. The landlord didn't like this and asked that the bikes be moved somewhere else. Without really providing any alternative. Then she removed the gate.

So I tried a few different places, none were within a convenient walk of the office and especially not in cleats.

I eventually started locking it to a pay&display notification pole.

Arrived this morning to find the Kryptonite lock was gone. No notice, no "please don't lock here or the lock will be removed".

This is after I have tried pleading with the council to have parking installed only to have it rejected. The area was clear of any pedestrian traffic but I was told "groups of children" use the crosswalk and a bike rack, some 20 feet away, would interfere with that.

Absolutely fuming, I presume I have no comeback or way of finding out who removed it?

Peregrinus

There's no general right to store your bicycle in the highway, so it it's perceived to be causing any kind of obstruction or nuisance it can be moved. I think if all that was removed was the lock you're doing quite well!

You mention that you are looking for somewhere "near to the office". Have you tried approaching your employer to provide a bike parking area? He at least has some incentive to try and keep you happy, and to make it easy for you to get to work in a timely manner.

Rereading, I see that I assumed that the pay & display pole was in the roadway. Do I have that wrong? Is it in a car-park and, if so, who operates the car park?

seamus

As the bike had only been locked there for the day, the council doesn't have the authority to break the lock unless the bike was causing an actual obstruction.

Place a claim in with the local council for the replacement cost of the lock. The council have the authority to remove the lock only if it's considered "litter" or if the bike was causing an obstruction. Since the bike was there only a few hours and they removed the lock but not the bike, clearly neither clause applies here.

punisher5112

So was the lock taken on its own or was your bike also taken...

This would usually mean if the latter your bike has been stolen.

DirkVoodoo

Peregrinus wrote: »

Rereading, I see that I assumed that the pay & display pole was in the roadway. Do I have that wrong? Is it in a car-park and, if so, who operates the car park?

Pole was on the pavement. I suppose you could consider the lock a hazard if you were to walk into the pole.

It really irks me. There are bikes locked to railings and other poles, a house beside the office has been undergoing a renovation and the labourers park their van on the double yellow lines and footpath all day, then the estate agents next to the Dark Horse pub parks his jaguar on the footpath (and causes a daily tailback as he makes the turn into it from Frascati road).

@Seamus: Thanks for that! There was no bike with the lock when it was removed. How does one go about making a claim?

DirkVoodoo

punisher5112 wrote: »

So was the lock taken on its own or was your bike also taken...

This would usually mean if the latter your bike has been stolen.

No, lock was there over the weekend. As I said, it could only really be a hazard if you tripped on it, which would require walking into the pole, so the pole would also have to be considered a hazard.

Peregrinus

seamus wrote: »

As the bike had only been locked there for the day, the council doesn't have the authority to break the lock unless the bike was causing an actual obstruction.

Place a claim in with the local council for the replacement cost of the lock. The council have the authority to remove the lock only if it's considered "litter" or if the bike was causing an obstruction. Since the bike was there only a few hours and they removed the lock but not the bike, clearly neither clause applies here.

OP asks "how can I find out who removed it?", which means he doesn't know if it was the Council, the landowner or some random gurrier. So a claim for compensation to the Council is a bit premature.

DirkVoodoo

Peregrinus wrote: »

OP asks "how can I find out who removed it?", which means he doesn't know if it was the Council, the landowner or some random gurrier. So a claim for compensation to the Council is a bit premature.

It's a kryptonite lock, without a bike as leverage. What gurrier would break a lock to steal a broken lock?

It would have required an angle grinder to get through.

average_runner

seamus wrote: »

As the bike had only been locked there for the day, the council doesn't have the authority to break the lock unless the bike was causing an actual obstruction.

Place a claim in with the local council for the replacement cost of the lock. The council have the authority to remove the lock only if it's considered "litter" or if the bike was causing an obstruction. Since the bike was there only a few hours and they removed the lock but not the bike, clearly neither clause applies here.

If a lock is left on council property, they have the right to remove asap, the same way as padlocks on the bridges in Dublin. But it was also left there over the weekend so there for more than a day.

Why not bring the bike into the office?

Peregrinus

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

@Seamus: Thanks for that! There was no bike with the lock when it was removed. How does one go about making a claim?

Ah! That makes a difference. A lock fixed to street furniture with nothing that needs locking is probably going to be regarded as litter. Not much chance of compensation.

From what you say the Council doesn't in fact object to bikes (and even cars) being parked; just to the lock being left there when the bike isn't. So the solution is to carry your lock with you.

DirkVoodoo

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ah! That makes a difference. A lock fixed to street furniture with nothing that needs locking is probably going to be regarded as litter. Not much chance of compensation.

From what you say the Council doesn't in fact object to bikes (and even cars) being parked; just to the lock being left there when the bike isn't. So the solution is to carry your lock with you.

Thanks. Sometimes I think it would just be easier to drive. My other suggestion was to have one of the 32 road parking spaces converted into a bike stand. I never got a reply to that email.

jon1981

Not sure what part of Carysfort avenue you are located but there is a business park closer to the Dark horse pub end of the street, it has a pretty big bike rack.

Leroy42

But they must have had to break the lock to get it off the pole, and that requires some effort, over a weekend? Doesn't sound like the council to me!

Are you summising that it was the council (can't think of anyone else tbh) or do you know it was?

Wishbone Ash

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ah! That makes a difference. A lock fixed to street furniture with nothing that needs locking is probably going to be regarded as litter. Not much chance of compensation...

But in all fairness, why would the council go to the hassle of removing a bike lock when there's countless other forms of real litter and eyesores around which seemed to go untouched? Sounds like the work of a 'jobsworth' to me.

DirkVoodoo

jon1981 wrote: »

Not sure what part of Carysfort avenue you are located but there is a business park closer to the Dark horse pub end of the street, it has a pretty big bike rack.

Yeah, I went there for a day after the railing was removed, but it's a private business park no? I figured the rack was for tenants.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But they must have had to break the lock to get it off the pole, and that requires some effort, over a weekend? Doesn't sound like the council to me!

Are you summising that it was the council (can't think of anyone else tbh) or do you know it was?

No idea who it was. Assumed council as it would have had to have been someone with access to the right tools.

jon1981

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah, I went there for a day after the railing was removed, but it's a private business park no? I figured the rack was for tenants.

I used to work in there, trust me nobody pays any attention to who is locking up their bike there. There's about 5/6 companies plus a gym in there, you could simply be a gym member... who'd know

Lumen

Best take out the CCTV cameras just to be sure. :pac:

seamus

Ah, well being left over the weekend is probably slightly different. Same rules still apply, but easier to argue that the lock is "litter" if it's been there over the weekend.

average_runner wrote: »

If a lock is left on council property, they have the right to remove asap, the same way as padlocks on the bridges in Dublin.

Well not really. In order for anyone to remove someone else's property, be that on public or private land, it has to be considered abandoned. In the case of a padlock on a bridge this is pretty easy, since it can be assumed that the owner has placed it there permanently and is not coming back to use it.

In the case of a bike lock, you would have to note that the lock was not in use and that you couldn't identify the owner.

Just because something is on or attached to public property, the council does not have the automatic right to remove it unless it presents a danger or obstruction.

As well noted though, identifying who removed it is probably not possible unless someone has CCTV there. But it's a big ass Kryptonite lock. I can't see some randomer going and fetching their angle grinder to remove it for ****s 'n' giggles.

Assume that the council removed it and put in a claim. Worse case scenario, they deny having removed it and reject your claim. Best case scenario, they compensate you.

Peregrinus

Ah, look, the Council is not going to monitor locks attached to parking meters to document how long they have been there before they can be considered "litter" and removed. My guess is that the standard routine for servicing, etc, the meters and associated signage in car parking areas involves removing any locks that are found on them, on the basis that the lock has been left in the highway while performing no function, and can therefore be regarded as litter.

Claim for compensation if you like. I doubt if you will get any. Although it's likely that the Council removed it, you can't show that they did, and quite possibly they don't document each individual item removed as litter, so they can honestly say that they don't know if they removed it or not. But claiming will help to bring home to the Council that the lack of secure and convenient parking for bikes is a continuing problem.

DirkVoodoo

Peregrinus wrote: »

But claiming will help to bring home to the Council that the lack of secure and convenient parking for bikes is a continuing problem.

This is the crux of the matter really. I'm going to take a photo today of where my parking suggestion was rejected. As someone said "don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions".

I should point out that my request was rejected by the cycling officer for dlr, which really amazes me. The solution proposed was a 12 minute walk to park it in the secluded carysfort park.

seamus

Peregrinus, I don't disagree in the slightest, and usually I would tell someone to forget about it. But when you're talking about locks that cost the guts of €100, then I would fuming too and looking to get compensated from somewhere.

Councils can actually be surprisingly accommodating about these kinds of claims. I remember years back there was a guy on the motors forum who took a left turn off Camden street and through his own incompetence managed to drive over a traffic island because he wasn't looking. But his car was low, so it damaged the front spoiler and the sump. Decided to put in a claim to the council who paid out €500 or so and then put one of those plastic marker things on the traffic island.

So there's really nothing to lose by sticking in the claim, and well worth it if you get the cost of a new lock out of it.

Skrynesaver

I work in the Business park Jon mentioned above, tenant only car parking is strictly enforced but no-one's ever asked me to get a sticker for my bike...

Larbre34

If you apply the same logic to a car, 'ah sure theres nothing convenient to my personal needs so Ill just park it anywhere', you can see how ridiculous this sounds.

There is a fair bit of bike parking in the centre of Blackrock village and again at the DART station, the footpaths are for people, including people with buggies or visually impaired that don't need to be tripping over your bicycle where normally they find just a sign pole.

its also a broken window syndrome thing, if your bike is left there for a long period, people will think its ok to lock theirs to any pole or bit of a railing.

Lesson learned and move on id say.

DirkVoodoo

I should refer the cycling officer at dlrcoco (Gerry Flaherty) to his council's own development documentation:

Developing the strategy, encouraging
the provision of cycle parking within existing developments and work places
and reviewing existing levels of provision within the public realm would be
suitable roles for the Council’s Cycling Officer (see Cp 17)

Cycle parking equipment should always be as close as possible (25m or less)
to likely destinations. It should also be fit for purpose and accessible and
useable by all sections of the community at all life stages and abilities.

DirkVoodoo

Larbre34 wrote: »

If you apply the same logic to a car, 'ah sure theres nothing convenient to my personal needs so Ill just park it anywhere', you can see how ridiculous this sounds.

That's helpful. Perhaps you missed the part where I tried to work with the council to get parking? I'm not the only one who was locking my bike up on Carysfort avenue.

Blackrock is 250m away, across a major junction. Read the policy information, that's 10 times the distance they consider. I suggested a perfect location, that was out of the way of buggies and the visually impaired, and it was shot down.

I'd love to spend all day walking around in lycra and cleats, but it's not practical. It's hardly comparable to a car, there is a glut of car parking in blackrock. As I mentioned, on the section of Carysfort avenue where I work there are 32 car parking places. 32.

You suggest laziness when really it's a question of suitability. Parking in Blackrock village is not suitable for where I am working.

old_aussie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

S

Myself and a colleague used to lock our bikes to a gate. The landlord didn't like this and asked that the bikes be moved somewhere else. Without really providing any alternative. Then she removed the gate.

I think your pushing your luck, lucky that she didn't move the gate with your bike still attached.

Can you take the bike into your workplace?

DirkVoodoo

old_aussie wrote: »

I think your pushing your luck, lucky that she didn't move the gate with your bike still attached.

Can you take the bike into your workplace?

No, it's not allowed. It's here today because I have no lock, but that's an exception.

We had negotiated with the pub next door, but that doesn't open until 10am.

Again, I didn't lock my bike to the gate or the pole out of laziness, I did it because there is NOWHERE else within a reasonable distance. Working with obtuse councils and landlords seems to be par for the course though.

Gerry T

So you locked your bike to someone's gate and when he asked you to move it I presume you didn't. To the point where this person had to remove the gate to get rid of you, is that right or was it something else ?
Then you lock to a street pole, no problem there but you leave the lock overnight, cutting down on weight, again presume you have the bike stored over night at home.
I think the right thing would be you ph the council and tell them its your lock and they send you a bill for removing the lock. Then the poor man that had to remove his gate should be able to put it back without you locking your bike to his gate. That sounds fair to me ?
Bring a pair of runners with you, that way you can lock the bike within a 5-10min walk from the office, loads of little streets around there.

DirkVoodoo

Gerry T wrote: »

So you locked your bike to someone's gate and when he asked you to move it I presume you didn't. To the point where this person had to remove the gate to get rid of you, is that right or was it something else ?
Then you lock to a street pole, no problem there but you leave the lock overnight, cutting down on weight, again presume you have the bike stored over night at home.
I think the right thing would be you ph the council and tell them its your lock and they send you a bill for removing the lock. Then the poor man that had to remove his gate should be able to put it back without you locking your bike to his gate. That sounds fair to me ?
Bring a pair of runners with you, that way you can lock the bike within a 5-10min walk from the office, loads of little streets around there.

Did you take my lock Gerry?

I can't even respond to the rest of your rubbish, I'll wait for the council to come along and remove it overnight.

Wishbone Ash

Larbre34 wrote: »

If you apply the same logic to a car, 'ah sure theres nothing convenient to my personal needs so Ill just park it anywhere', you can see how ridiculous this sounds....

Your 'logic' might have some validity if local authorities actively encouraged people to drive to work. They don't - they encourage people to walk, cycle and or use public transport.

Gerry T

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Did you take my lock Gerry?

I can't even respond to the rest of your rubbish, I'll wait for the council to come along and remove it overnight.

What's rubbish is someone has to remove a gate to get you to stop locking your bike to it (thats how it reads) and that you expect a bike rack to be placed outside the door step of your workplace. Because its hard to walk in cleats :rolleyes:

Michael D Not Higgins

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Blackrock is 250m away, across a major junction. Read the policy information, that's 10 times the distance they consider. I suggested a perfect location, that was out of the way of buggies and the visually impaired, and it was shot down.

Carysfort Avenue is mostly residential. I think the "likely destinations" clause is applicable here. You can't go sticking bike racks all over suburbia. You'd have NIMBYs up your ars­e all over SCD.

Grandpa Hassan

I am a cyclist and I agree with the council on this one (not the issue of not providing bike parking - that is an issue all over town - but rather the zero tolerance toward locks left lying around, and the subsequent removal of yours). Locks left attached to street furniture are an eyesore and there is no reason why they cant be carried on the frame of the bike if they are too heavy for a backpack. I'm not sure that complaining to the council will do much good.....I think they've every right to remove it

Tiddlypeeps

Why would you leave such an expensive bike lock on a pole all weekend?

I get the parking the bike there, seems reasonable enough and I'd agree with the outrage if the bike was removed. But abandoning the lock there on it's own for days on end and expecting it to be there on your return seems fairly naive.

Wishbone Ash

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

... Locks left attached to street furniture are an eyesore and there is no reason..

Large cable ties left on every lampost (from election/referendum posters) are a much bigger eyesore and serve no purpose but I have yet to see councils removing them.

If locks on poles are considered an eyesore, surely locks and bikes attached would be an even bigger eyesore?

Raam

Can you get your mum to drive down after you to pick the bike up and bring it home? Then she can come back with it in the evening when you want to cycle home.

DirkVoodoo

Thanks for the useful replies here, I think the rest of ye should look at getting council jobs. I'd be more interested in getting some support for proper facilities here. Here is the space that I sent to the council. I'd originally included a more helpful illustration showing how it wouldn't interfere with pedestrian traffic.

You can use the McDonald's cup for scale. That's someone else's rubbish, not mine.

"Locks left attached to street furniture are an eyesore" - Agreed, but aren't they an indicator that maybe this area needs more bike parking?

"abandoning the lock there on it's own for days on end and expecting it to be there on your return seems fairly naive" - Fair enough. Lesson learned.

"Because its hard to walk in cleats" - Can't even be bothered Gerry. Go home. The gate issue was explained and you decided to distort it.

This was my suggestion. The area is NEVER entered by pedestrians and seems to only be used for littering. There is no trip hazard or risk of someone with sight difficulties walking into it:





Maybe I'm missing something but this seemed a good spot that would help solve a problem (as mentioned, I'm not the only one locking my bike up here). Even the Dark Horse pub put in a bike rack in their premises. Why can't the council be more helpful?

07Lapierre

The real issue here is why your employer doesn't allow bicycles on the premises? Where do other employees park? Does everyone in your office get the DART?

Lumen

Sink an anchor into that wall. Claim it back on expenses.

Problem solved.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brute-Force-OF439-Security-Anchor/dp/B00126FWT0

Lumen

07Lapierre wrote: »

The real issue here is why your employer doesn't allow bicycles on the premises? Where do other employees park? Does everyone in your office get the DART?

That's not the issue, it's an issue.

Maybe Dirk's pimp doesn't like bikes cluttering up the alley.

rubadub

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

It's a kryptonite lock, without a bike as leverage. What gurrier would break a lock to steal a broken lock?

So its a U lock? I presume so becauce of the leverage remark. I did have a chain nicked on me before, definitely not the council. If leaving locks over a weekend I leave them up really high, harder to get tools to.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Large cable ties left on every lampost (from election/referendum posters) are a much bigger eyesore

Literal eyesore when they lash you in the eye in the dark. I was onto the garda and council about them and they didn't want to know.

Planet X

@Dirk.
That spot you pictured is a regular hobo drinking spot. I've seen lads crouched down of an afternoon giving the cans a good lash. 😊
Can't be having bikes parked there lol.

DirkVoodoo

Planet X wrote: »

@Dirk.
That spot you pictured is a regular hobo drinking spot. I've seen lads crouched down of an afternoon giving the cans a good lash. 😊
Can't be having bikes parked there lol.

Two birds with one stone? Can't squat to drink with all these bike racks in the way.

Planet X

It's the perfect spot for a rack though.

minikin

Fill your tyres with helium, so that your bike floats when you get off it.
Bring a set of golf clubs with you every morning, attach bike to golf club trolley (acts as a handy anchor) with some baler twine. Leave golf clubs outside your work entrance. If employer places a ban on golf club trollies then try a grand piano.

CatFromHue

I can see why the council wouldn't put one there.

There's a bike rack in Blackrock village, and I'd imagine one in each of the Frescati and Blackrock shopping centres too.

I'd be asking your employer for a spot to keep your bike in.

Stokolan

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

So I tried a few different places, none were within a convenient walk of the office and especially not in cleats.

I had issues of needing to walk a small distance while wearing cleats. At first I used to bring flip flops but then found Cleat covers http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?s=cleat+covers . I Find them very handy.

Gerry T

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

"Because its hard to walk in cleats" - Can't even be bothered Gerry. Go home. The gate issue was explained and you decided to distort it.

Where did you explain the gate ? and how did I distort it ? you said:
"Myself and a colleague used to lock our bikes to a gate. The landlord didn't like this and asked that the bikes be moved somewhere else. Without really providing any alternative. Then she removed the gate."
And why would this lady provide an alternative ?

iwillhtfu

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something but this seemed a good spot that would help solve a problem (as mentioned, I'm not the only one locking my bike up here).

Looks to be well sheltered on two sides and an ideal location for would be bike thief. No?

DirkVoodoo

bedlam wrote: »

Dirk, any chance yours is the Giant Cross bike with the Red/Orange Kryptonite?

Yes...

DirkVoodoo

Ha! I think it had a sign on google maps and I've just always thought it was still there.

It would be some effort to get it over though, it must be at least 10 feet tall.