European Boxing Championships

price690

Mick Conlan just progressed into the final.

Dean Walsh will be up shortly followed by Joe Ward later this evening.

Jimmy Magee basically spent the whole fight eulogising about Conlan, you would swear we were watching a young Rigondeaux winning his Olympic gold's.

He is incapable of calling a fight, rather he sees his opportunity to regale everyone with as many inane facts that he can cram into 3 minute rounds.

walshb

I had forgotten that Dean was fighting as well. Amazing if we get 3 into the finals. Missed Conlan. Was it a good fight, good win?

price690

walshb wrote: »

I had forgotten that Dean was fighting as well. Amazing if we get 3 into the finals. Missed Conlan. Was it a good fight, good win?

I thought he was scrappy enough to be honest, alot of missed hooks

There wasn't alot of clean flush shots but he dug out the win without being troubled.

Just frustrating to hear commentary telling us how brilliant it was, a casual viewer would not have had a clue how there was such a clear winner when it wasn't very dominant if ya get me

walshb

Walsh needs this last rd. Tight fight.

I think the Russian may just have nicked this.

Loses a close UD. 29-28 all in favour of the Russian. Dean boxed very well. Gave it his all.

walshb

Conlan meets England's Qais Ashfaq in the final. The man he beat last year in the Commonwealth Games final. He beat him 3-0 in that fight.

megadodge

I took a bloody half-day to watch this, but got delayed and missed both Irish lads!

Have to say Walsh continually surprises me. I've never been over-impressed with him in the Stadium, yet he's producing the goods internationally. Fair play.

Just saw young McCormack (English light-welter) and was very impressed.

price690

Joe Ward fights the Croatian Sep tonight, Sep is a good fighter, don't think their paths have crossed in WSB or APB.

Ward is capable of beating anyone over 3 rounds, anything longer and stamina issues raise their head.

megadodge

What time is Ward expected to start?

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Conlan meets England's Qais Ashfaq in the final. The man he beat last year in the Commonwealth Games final. He beat him 3-0 in that fight.

I've seen Ashfaq fight a few times in London and was never massively impressed with him. I think Michael should have too much for him.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

What time is Ward expected to start?

1915 hrs

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

I took a bloody half-day to watch this, but got delayed and missed both Irish lads!

Have to say Walsh continually surprises me. I've never been over-impressed with him in the Stadium, yet he's producing the goods internationally. Fair play.

Just saw young McCormack (English light-welter) and was very impressed.

Walsh lost by a few punches here and there. One judge had it 2-0 (20-18) to the Russian going in to the final rd. The other two had it 19-19. The last rd saw the 19-19 judges each give the final rd to the Russian, and the 20-18 judge gave the 3rd rd to Walsh. That's judging, I guess.

megadodge

Ward on now. I thought he won the first.

Yeah, all judges gave it to him.

megadodge

Thought he won the second also...

Yeah, he got that too.

Just stay solid in the third and he's in the final.

megadodge

Well done, Joe Ward.

Probably slugged too much in the third for my liking (more chance of a cut), but he was a clear winner.

As usual he's not the most stylish, but he is so relaxed when he's in the ring. Makes it look as if it's no big deal.

megadodge

Mullenberg from the Netherlands deserved winner of the other semi-final.

A good solid, hard-working fighter, but definitely beatable.

walshb

Joe looked a lot smoother and synced than usual. I was impressed. I thought he won all 3 rds. Hard to believe that guy was seeded 1. I'd have to favor joe in the final. I wasn't overly impressed with Mullenberg.

NotCominBack

anyone got times for the finals?

walshb

NotCominBack wrote: »

anyone got times for the finals?

1630 hrs RTE2

Henno30

Good win for Conlan. RTE going a bit overboard in the praise but a great achievement for him all the same.

NotCominBack

Love to see him going pro - has great potential

The White Feather

A quick stupid question ....

When did they stop wearing headguards? I thought you had to wear them in amateur

Henno30

The White Feather wrote: »

A quick stupid question ....

When did they stop wearing headguards? I thought you had to wear them in amateur

Couple of years ago. The went back to the 10-point must scoring system as well. Don't know what the official reasoning was but it seemed like a bid to gain tv audience to me.

Gringo180

That British lad McCormack is a classy fighter.

Subcomandante Marcos

Ward was very good there.

He weighed in at 81 tonight. Do people seeing as he's 6'1" I don't see him going for Heavyweight when he turns pro, but do you reckon he'll go for Light heavyweight or Cruiserweight?

I think he could be a very successful LHW myself.

walshb

Great result for the boys and Ireland.

Britain I felt should have gotten two more golds with Ali and McCormack.

Subcomandante Marcos

walshb wrote: »

Great result for the boys and Ireland.

Britain I felt should have gotten two more golds with Ali and McCormack.

I thought Ali was soundly beaten myself, threw a lot but landed very little.

walshb

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I thought Ali was soundly beaten myself, threw a lot but landed very little.

Soundly beaten? C'mon.....I am with Carruth on that one.

Subcomandante Marcos

walshb wrote: »

Soundly beaten? C'mon.....I am with Carruth on that one.

And I'm with the other two.

walshb

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Ward was very good there.

He weighed in at 81 tonight. Do people seeing as he's 6'1" I don't see him going for Heavyweight when he turns pro, but do you reckon he'll go for Light heavyweight or Cruiserweight?

I think he could be a very successful LHW myself.

If he turned pro he would be making 175 lbs. Only that he seems a big LHW the pro management would have him boil to 168. He is young, so a move up will happen with age and maturity.

Henno30

No rush with Ward at all. If he stays focused and keeps progressing we could have a legit world level light-heavy in 5 years time.

NotCominBack

I would be more looking forward to watching Conlan go pro - looks strong compared to others at his weight and is technically excellent - bit rough around the edges but a real prospect

Talib Fiasco

If Ward qualifies then he has a great chance of a medal at Rio. I just hope he doesn't face La Cruz too early.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

If Ward qualifies then he has a great chance of a medal at Rio. I just hope he doesn't face La Cruz too early.

The guy who barely squeaked past Joe in the 2013 worlds? Joe Ward is more than capable of beating that lad, unless Jimmy MaGee is commentating on the fight, like he was two years ago.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

The guy who barely squeaked past Joe in the 2013 worlds? Joe Ward is more than capable of beating that lad, unless Jimmy MaGee is commentating on the fight, like he was two years ago.

"barely squeaked" you must be joking? It was a clear as day win for La Cruz, Joe landed maybe two or three decent shots if I recall correctly...tried his best but couldn't get anything going and La Cruz easily pot shotted his way to the win. And considering it was two top guys going at it, La Cruz made it look very easy. No offence to Joe but his opponent was in another league.

boxer.fan

I think it's worth mentioning RTE's coverage of these championships. In fairness they come in for a lot of stick for their lack of support of one of Ireland's most successful sports. It looks like they will be covering the worlds also.

Jimmy Magee can be hard work, however, one can understand why RTE are loyal to him. Donovan was decent enough too.

Strongbow10

boxer.fan wrote: »

I think it's worth mentioning RTE's coverage of these championships. In fairness they come in for a lot of stick for their lack of support of one of Ireland's most successful sports. It looks like they will be covering the worlds also.

Jimmy Magee can be hard work, however, one can understand why RTE are loyal to him. Donovan was decent enough too.

It would be great if RTE unearthed a specialist boxing commentator, really enjoyed Eric in the co-commentators role, he was excellent

Good debate in the studio aswell, you could even sense a little bit of needle amongst the lads

Subcomandante Marcos

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

"barely squeaked" you must be joking? It was a clear as day win for La Cruz, Joe landed maybe two or three decent shots if I recall correctly...tried his best but couldn't get anything going and La Cruz easily pot shotted his way to the win. And considering it was two top guys going at it, La Cruz made it look very easy. No offence to Joe but his opponent was in another league.

When a 19 year old ward, still recovering from a knee injury he picked up in June that year, lost by decision to an older (by 5 years) La Cruz, I was not surprised Joe lost, he had a massive handicap, he shouldn't have been fighting at all.

Here and now, 2 years later, with a fit Ward, I don't think La Cruz has half as much joy.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

"barely squeaked" you must be joking? It was a clear as day win for La Cruz, Joe landed maybe two or three decent shots if I recall correctly...tried his best but couldn't get anything going and La Cruz easily pot shotted his way to the win. And considering it was two top guys going at it, La Cruz made it look very easy. No offence to Joe but his opponent was in another league.

Nonsense. The Cuban was getting scores for posing. Joe was well in that fight. You must have had the Magee muffs on for the fight.

walshb

For me Ward is boxing better than ever, and I am really looking forward to a 22 year old Rio contender. Anyone else a bit miffed about these power punching claims? Listening to Jimmy and the analysts you would swear he hit like Tyson. Has he many KO/Stoppage wins from punching? Some stoppages can occur from cuts.

boxer.fan

walshb wrote: »

For me Ward is boxing better than ever, and I am really looking forward to a 22 year old Rio contender. Anyone else a bit miffed about these power punching claims? Listening to Jimmy and the analysts you would swear he hit like Tyson. Has he many KO/Stoppage wins from punching? Some stoppages can occur from cuts.

I think Jimmy & the lads are just filling the time voids with whatever boxing cliches or buzzwords they can come up with. I have no idea what Joe's KO record is but it does appear that his opponent's are not discouraged from going forward. One could assume that after the initial exchanges his opponents would be reluctant to come forward if he had serious power.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

Nonsense. The Cuban was getting scores for posing. Joe was well in that fight. You must have had the Magee muffs on for the fight.

I watched a British commentary of the fight, rarely watch Boxing on RTE anymore and they gave credit to Ward but agreed that he was outclassed by a much better guy. As said Ward tried his best, landed some decent shots, probably more than La Cruz usually gives up but it was never a close fight. Nothing to be ashamed of.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I watched a British commentary of the fight, rarely watch Boxing on RTE anymore and they gave credit to Ward but agreed that he was outclassed by a much better guy. As said Ward tried his best, landed some decent shots, probably more than La Cruz usually gives up but it was never a close fight. Nothing to be ashamed of.

I may watch it again, but on the 1-2 times I saw it the Cuban for me was nothing special. Did more threatening and posing than scoring clean shots. Maybe you should re-watch it to see if it really was a clear win? I can't remember, but was it on the old computer scoring, or on the 10-9 points system?

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

I may watch it again, but on the 1-2 times I saw it the Cuban for me was nothing special. Did more threatening and posing than scoring clean shots. Maybe you should re-watch it to see if it really was a clear win? I can't remember, but was it on the old computer scoring, or on the 10-9 points system?

I watched it again earlier as I was genuinely curious about the point you mentioned and besides Ward looking solid in the first round it was a clear as day win for the Cuban. I know it's his style to be all Prince Naseem slash Roy Jones with the careless hands down and stuff but he really looked to be just taking the piss out of Ward with ease whilst still landing shots to ensure the rounds. It was the new 10-9 system which has pros and cons of course. Again Ward was very young then, and obviously should be better now, and considering La Cruz was shot in the leg last year anything can happen, I just think it'd be a shock to see him not win the Olympic Gold.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I watched it again earlier as I was genuinely curious about the point you mentioned and besides Ward looking solid in the first round it was a clear as day win for the Cuban. I know it's his style to be all Prince Naseem slash Roy Jones with the careless hands down and stuff but he really looked to be just taking the piss out of Ward with ease whilst still landing shots to ensure the rounds. It was the new 10-9 system which has pros and cons of course. Again Ward was very young then, and obviously should be better now, and considering La Cruz was shot in the leg last year anything can happen, I just think it'd be a shock to see him not win the Olympic Gold.

Ok, I may give it a watch. My impression was that Cruz was not landing clean shots. No more clean than Ward. Lots of misses. Poor fight overall. In saying this I can't see it at all being clear. The so called scores were very flimsy!

Similar to Robeissy Ramirez and his win vs. Conlan in London 2012. Anytime Conlan threw and connected to arms or shoulders and body not a word mentioned, but when Robeissy threw and landed pretty much the identical shots the commentators were in awe. That fight was another puzzle for me. Robeissy covers up for large parts of it and blocks a lot of shots whilst returning fire sporadically, and he gets lauded. Conlan throws more, and looks the busier, and the man wanting to engage, and hits a lot of arms and shoulders and body, yet gets no credit at all. Robeissy's replies mostly hit arms and shoulders and bodies, as well as missing, and he is deemed to be such a clear winner. Boll^%ks.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Not knocking anything away from his gold medal but it's important to put it into context. It's hard to say he's boxing better than ever when he's fought below par in the AIBA pro format and the level of opposition in this Europeans was not of a high standard.

The way he throws them hooks, I'd imagine he punches hard but I agree that the punching claims might be a tad overstated. It probably stems from the night he put Egan down in one of the senior finals. Think he was 17 at the time.

Possibly getting ahead of myself. I was more meaning that he seems smoother and more synced in his movement and punch delivery. He will be a tough test for any man next year. That is encouraging, but by no means a favorite.

Plus. In Rio I believe the rds are 3x3. It's not like the AIBA format that Joe is involved in. They are over 6 rds and more. 3x3 will suit Joe better I feel.

paul64

Can anyone tell me how far do the boxers have to go in the world championships to qualify for rio?

walshb

paul64 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how far do the boxers have to go in the world championships to qualify for rio?

I think two from each weight for the men. Winner and finalist automatically qualify. In some weights there are 3 allocated. Not sure how boxer 3 is chosen. Is he the boxer that loses to the gold medal winner? That sounds unfair.

http://corporate.olympics.com.au/files/dmfile/Rio2016QualificationSystem-Boxing.pdf

Strongbow10

Ward needs to qualify for Rio first. Does anyone know how far he will need to go in the worlds?

Have a feeling he will leave it late again, possibly qualifying in one of the intercontinental tournaments.

It might actually suit ward to have to chase it after the worlds, keeping him active nad in competition is key.

I agree with Walshb in relation to the Peraza fight in the Worlds, Peraza has the whole posturing and posing style down to a tee that is very eye catching in the amateurs.

Ward wasn't as easy on the eye but wasn't all that less effective. Peraza deserved the decision but it wasn't a one sided bout as it was described at the time.

paul64

walshb wrote: »

I think two from each weight for the men. Winner and finalist automatically qualify. In some weights there are 3 allocated. Not sure how boxer 3 is chosen. Is he the boxer that loses to the gold medal winner? That sounds unfair.

http://corporate.olympics.com.au/files/dmfile/Rio2016QualificationSystem-Boxing.pdf

Thanks pretty hard to qualify for rio through the worlds anyway:eek:

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I agree that Joe is better suited towards 3x3 rounds but I'm slightly bemused when people say he'll make a great pro. .

I can't find any real evidence or logic for that statement. It's made rather matter of factly'. He is young, and may well mature and make a good pro, but looking at him now I don't see anything that stands out for me to make such a clear and defined statement.

I am liking his busier punching style. In the recent bouts he showed very good fluidity and combination hitting. Ok, that was against lads who came to him, but it's still encouraging. Would like to see him maybe put a bit more venom into his shots, and to work a bit better inside. He has an inside game. He doesn't use it enough.

megadodge

I can't believe we're revisiting that Cuban's "outclassing" of Joe Ward in the Worlds and how he was in a "different league". Those claims are utterly preposterous.

How can somebody who is "outclassing" his opponent land NO OBVIOUS CLEAN PUNCH over three rounds?

I said it at the time on this forum, that if that bout was under computer scoring, the score would have been 0-0 (countback) or maybe 1-0 to the Cuban. I think he might have scored a quick scuffing right hand in the middle of a combination in the second, but that was about it!!

I don't actually have a problem with the decision, as from the perspective of controlling the action, more punches THROWN and general body language (Ward did look frustrated) the Cuban gave the impression of being the winner, but at the end of the day the overriding impression I got was two very different styled boxers completely cancelling each other out. The Cuban's flashiness and movement was much more obvious than Ward's very subtle judgement of distance, but the end result was the same - no punches landed from either fighter!!