A cow in the garden

Aineoil

I live in the country and just this week a cow made it's way into our front
garden. We think the cow's owner is the farmer who owns the land around us. We don't have his phone number so we couldn't call him.

We live on a busy main road so putting the cow out of the garden out on the road would reckless for motorists and the animal.

We were awake most of the night, looking at the cow and wondering what to do. The cow then decided to go out on the road again. So it's three in the morning and we hear cars slowing down and see motorists using hazard lights.

The next morning we having a laugh about the crazy night when lo and behold, the cow is back in the garden again munching on the grass.

Again we had no idea what to do. Fortunately a neighbour 200 metres away knocks on our door and says it's X's animal. They get him out of our garden, the cow runs down the road and jumps into a field with motorists beeping.

The guards came. I just saw the squad car. I don't know what they did, I suppose they monitored the situation.

I know people will read this and think I'm making it up, I'm not.

My questions are:

If anything happened to a motorist who would be at fault - me or the farmer?

If I directed the cow out of my property I think I would be liable if the animal collided with a vehicle?

Atlantic Dawn

His cow his problem.

Call me Al

I've always been under the impression that if a stray farm animal, such as a sheep or cow, wanders into your property it's your responsibility if they stray away by you not taking precautions, and become a hazard.
Had I been in your position I'd have made it my business to find the animal's owner, by enquiring with neighbors, and asked them to take care of their animal.

Eta it's your responsibility once you're aware of it being on your property.

Aineoil

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

His cow his problem.

Thanks, I thought as much.

Aineoil

Call me Al wrote: »

I've always been under the impression that if a stray farm animal, such as a sheep or cow, wanders into your property it's your responsibility if they stray away by you not taking precautions, and become a hazard.
Had I been in your position I'd have made it my business to find the animal's owner, by enquiring with neighbors, and asked them to take care of their animal.

Eta it's your responsibility once you're aware of it being on your property.

That's what I thought too.

MarkAnthony

You can't mooooooove her back down the road? (EDIT: Back to the farm incase any other meaning was taken from that)

Sorry, cud not resist!

I'll get my coat.

conorh91

Presumably the beast has strayed of its own volition and did not get lost when being moved by the farmer.

Presuming it is the former, the owner is liable in respect of any damage caused to your property, regardless of negligence. There is a specific tort named 'cattle trespass'.

There is an English authority which says that the owner will also be liable in respect of personal injuries arising out of removing the cattle from your property, provided the damage is not too remote

Wormald v Cole [1954] 1 QB 614

AGS have powers to impound trespassing cattle so if you're uncomfortable with handling these animals, that's the appropriate route to take.

Atlantic Dawn has summed up the legal position here succinctly: "his cow, his problem", is indeed the gyst of it. But of course, you shouldn't do anything mind-bogglingly silly.

Kovu

You're not supposed to intentionally run them back out onto a road where they may cause an accident, this leaves you responsible. However, as in this case, if the animal decides to leave herself you would certainly not be at fault in any way.

The correct thing to do is to call the Gardai straight away, they can get the animal impounded or moved safely to an area until the owner is found.

It's in Chapter Two of the ISPCA Handbook- http://www.ispca.ie/assets/legal.pdf

coylemj

Call me Al wrote: »

I've always been under the impression that if a stray farm animal, such as a sheep or cow, wanders into your property it's your responsibility if they stray away by you not taking precautions, and become a hazard.
Had I been in your position I'd have made it my business to find the animal's owner, by enquiring with neighbors, and asked them to take care of their animal.

Eta it's your responsibility once you're aware of it being on your property.

That thinking is totally devoid of logic. What if you were away for the day - are you still liable simply because the animal strayed onto your property for 1 minute and then wandered onto the public road and caused an accident? What if the householder was a bedridden pensioner who could see the cow outside the window but could do nothing about it - still liable?

Most people who aren't farmers themselves wouldn't have a clue how to manage a large animal - what if it was an angry bull?

Del2005

coylemj wrote: »

That thinking is totally devoid of logic. What if you were away for the day - are you still liable simply because the animal strayed onto your property for 1 minute and then wandered onto the public road and caused an accident? What if the householder was a bedridden pensioner who could see the cow outside the window but could do nothing about it - still liable?

Most people who aren't farmers themselves wouldn't have a clue how to manage a large animal - what if it was an angry bull?

Cows can be more dangerous, especially if the have a calf, so unless you know the animals don't go near them. I'd be wary of any bovine in a place it's not used to as they can clear very high walls in a panic.

Little CuChulainn

Kovu wrote: »

You're not supposed to intentionally run them back out onto a road where they may cause an accident, this leaves you responsible. However, as in this case, if the animal decides to leave herself you would certainly not be at fault in any way.

The correct thing to do is to call the Gardai straight away, they can get the animal impounded or moved safely to an area until the owner is found.

It's in Chapter Two of the ISPCA Handbook- http://www.ispca.ie/assets/legal.pdf

The Gardaí will do neither of those two things.

brian_t

If you milk the cow whilst it in your garden.

Can you keep the milk or does it belong to the farmer ?

nuac

You, or whoever built the house, knew you were moving into a rural area.

Most neighbours try to help each other. If your neighbour's land is beside you, and if you cannot contact him/her, you should put the animal back in his land and notify him asap

Unless the animal is out on the road I see little point in involving AGS. There are few pounds around now. The local Gardaí will be reluctant to incur the expense of transporting the animal there. They may help you in locating the owner. However it would be unusual if some neighbour does not know him.

There used to be an old remedy of distress damage feasant -i.e. that you could detain an animal who has damaged your property. Would not advise anyone to push that. Better to work on the fencing

Aineoil

Thanks for all the answers.

CiniO

So does that mean IF drivers hits a cow on public road then its farmer's fault, not driver's?

rameire

what an udder disgrace.

did the cow do a good job on the grass? am thinking of hiring a cow to cut mine.

Kovu

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The Gardaí will do neither of those two things.

They are obliged to move them off a public road- even if that is only into the neighbours field, when they are on the road they are a danger to motorists. They will then contact the Dept, who can find out the owner by the tag number. Contact owner, job done.

So does that mean IF drivers hits a cow on public road then its farmer's fault, not driver's?

That is a grey area as either can be at fault. There are regulations we must adhere to when moving stock on the road, but then again, driver have the same when travelling around/behind livestock being moved on the road.

For example if a farmer is moving cattle on his own, one breaks away and knocks your wingmirror off- He is at fault.
If cattle are being moved with people in front and behind, have a warning person ahead of them which you ignore and thus drive by the cattle at speed, causing them to spook and flatten your bonnet, you would be at fault.

lazybones32

The farmer is responsible for his/her cattle and any damage they cause.

Little CuChulainn

Kovu wrote: »

They are obliged to move them off a public road- even if that is only into the neighbours field, when they are on the road they are a danger to motorists. They will then contact the Dept, who can find out the owner by the tag number. Contact owner, job done.

Where does this obligation come from?

Aimead

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Where does this obligation come from?

Feck whether they have an obligation, they still mightn’t do squat.

What the OP describes is a common enough occurrence around where we live, and it’s the same shower of careless farmers that are responsible time and time again. Local cop shop has, what, maybe two guards with one of them out-and-about. They never do anything.

Most of the neighbours would simply feck the animal back out on the road, and it’s really only a matter of time before an accident or serious damage happens.

conorh91

CiniO wrote: »

So does that mean IF drivers hits a cow on public road then its farmer's fault, not driver's?

In most cases, negligence would have to be proven.

Cattle trespass (entry onto property) does not require any negligence on behalf of the controller of the cows, mere entry of cattle onto private property will suffice (confusingly, 'cattle' here includes horses and other farmed species). Damage to property. and non-remote injuries incurred when removing from property. will be actionable.

But if a cow is simply rollicking down the public road and bangs into an oncoming truck, I think I am correct in saying that negligence on behalf of the farmer must be proven if he is to be liable. Someone else might want to disagree or confirm that.

Aineoil

nuac wrote: »

You, or whoever built the house, knew you were moving into a rural area.

Most neighbours try to help each other. If your neighbour's land is beside you, and if you cannot contact him/her, you should put the animal back in his land and notify him asap

Unless the animal is out on the road I see little point in involving AGS. There are few pounds around now. The local Gardaí will be reluctant to incur the expense of transporting the animal there. They may help you in locating the owner. However it would be unusual if some neighbour does not know him.

There used to be an old remedy of distress damage feasant -i.e. that you could detain an animal who has damaged your property. Would not advise anyone to push that. Better to work on the fencing

I grew up in rural Ireland, so I am used to animals breaking out. I totally believe in neighbours helping each other out.

The neighbour's land is next to me but to get the animal back to the field (and I had no idea what field the cow escapaced from) I would have had to put the animal onto the main road to put him into a field. I didn't want to do this because it's very dangerous for motorists and the animal.

I didn't call the guards, I didn't think of calling them. I called locals to get the farmer's phone number ... with no luck.

The cow didn't do much damage to the garden, but I wouldn't be too fussed over that. It's a garden.

I was more scared the cow would run out on the main road and cause an accident.

We don't live on a back on a back road, we live on a national primary route.

paul71

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The Gardaí will do neither of those two things.

Thats odd, the several dozen times I have seen it happen must have been people impersonating Gardai so.

nuac

CiniO wrote: »

So does that mean IF drivers hits a cow on public road then its farmer's fault, not driver's?

Yes, if in area normally fenced

If in commonage where the commonage is not normally fenced off from the road, the cow's owner would not be liable

Little CuChulainn

paul71 wrote: »

Thats odd, the several dozen times I have seen it happen must have been people impersonating Gardai so.

You've seen Gardaí seize cows? I'd love to know where. Are you sure they didn't just herd them into the nearest field and drive off?

paul71

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You've seen Gardaí seize cows? I'd love to know where. Are you sure they didn't just herd them into the nearest field and drive off?

I have seen and helped Gardai seize horses in Celbridge, in Maynooth, in Rathcoole, and in Sumerhill, I saw them seize cattle on the Kilcock Summerhill road. Would you like dates?

Additionally, you said they would do neither of the two options, the Gardai will never leave a large animal unattended on a road.

Little CuChulainn

paul71 wrote: »

I have seen and helped Gardai seize horses in Celbridge, in Maynooth, in Rathcoole, and in Sumerhill, I saw them seize cattle on the Kilcock Summerhill road. Would you like dates?

Additionally, you said they would do neither of the two options, the Gardai will never leave a large animal unattended on a road.

We're talking about cows though. Horses are seized all the time. They are actually seized by the council and the Gardaí only attend. I'd love to know how and why they seized cattle in Kilcock though.

runawaybishop

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

We're talking about cows though. Horses are seized all the time. They are actually seized by the council and the Gardaí only attend. I'd love to know how and why they seized cattle in Kilcock though.

The gardai often help with loose cattle.

Little CuChulainn

runawaybishop wrote: »

The gardai often help with loose cattle.

Right, by shouting "hup hup" and clapping their hands to herd them to the nearest field. They don't seize cattle. Don't have the capability.

runawaybishop

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Right, by shouting "hup hup" and clapping their hands to herd them to the nearest field. They don't seize cattle. Don't have the capability.

You said they won't help move them. They do.

Specifically

Kovu wrote: »

You're not supposed to intentionally run them back out onto a road where they may cause an accident, this leaves you responsible. However, as in this case, if the animal decides to leave herself you would certainly not be at fault in any way.

The correct thing to do is to call the Gardai straight away, they can get the animal impounded or moved safely to an area until the owner is found.

It's in Chapter Two of the ISPCA Handbook- http://www.ispca.ie/assets/legal.pdf

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The Gardaí will do neither of those two things.

This is completely incorrect. The correct thing to do is indeed call the Gardai who will take it from there by reaching out to the council or department. They will also, and I have first hand knowledge of this, move the animal into a field.

Little CuChulainn

runawaybishop wrote: »

You said they won't help move them. They do.

I said they won't

get the animal impounded or moved safely to an area until the owner is found.

They will in fact just move it to the closest green area. I guess you could call that a safe place if you want. They have no contact details for farm owners and no way of tracing a particular owner nor do they have a way to impound cows. It's not a matter of unwillingness, it's simply a lack of capability. Although it is funny to see the Dublin born Gardaí trying to shoo a cow off a road.

runawaybishop

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I said they won't



They will in fact just move it to the closest green area. I guess you could call that a safe place if you want. They have no contact details for farm owners and no way of tracing a particular owner nor do they have a way to impound cows. It's not a matter of unwillingness, it's simply a lack of capability. Although it is funny to see the Dublin born Gardaí trying to shoo a cow off a road.

Yes, that would be called a safe place. The correct thing to do is call the gardai.

foggy_lad

conorh91 wrote: »

But if a cow is simply rollicking down the public road and bangs into an oncoming truck, I think I am correct in saying that negligence on behalf of the farmer must be proven if he is to be liable. Someone else might want to disagree or confirm that.

Is the negligence not proven by the animal "rollicking down the public road" instead of being controlled properly by the farmer? The farmer must keep their animals under control whether they are in a field grazing or being moved on the public road, obviously if some other person opens a gate and allows animals out onto the road the farmer can be liable only if this type of incident has happened before and they have not taken precautions such as locking gates.

conorh91

foggy_lad wrote: »

The farmer must keep their animals under control whether they are in a field grazing or being moved on the public road,

The law on the driving of cattle is more generous to farmers than the law on roaming cattle.

It's a necessity: Irish farms tend to quite particulate, subdivided by public roads. Accessing the roads is a common requirement and the farmer enjoys broad protection from liability, unless the cattle are only roaming, in which case the householder enjoys greater protection.

The above are very straightforward principles, no need to get into complicated questions about negligence.

Traffic collisions have no direct relationship with the use of land. It's purely a negligence issue, more complex. It's not difficult to imagine a situation where a farmer would, and should, avoid liability (moving his cattle, signage erected, driver not taking care on a country road, etc)