Lough Derg Pilgrimage.

joseph brand

I just caught a segment on Newstalk's Pat Kenny show, where they sent two people up to Lough Derg to report on the pilgrimage. Although it sounds absolutely miserable (like sleeping-under-a-wet-blanket-that-doesn't-cover-the-length-of-your-body miserable), is a complete waste of time, gives credence to beliefs in the supernatural, it's not without a sense of humour. Pilgrims can avail of the 'soup', a generous term for a bowl of water with either salt or pepper added. Someone in the clergy (with a fiendish wit) is, or was a fan of Blackadder.

Private Baldrick's hobbies include cookery, his specialities include:

Rat au Van (a rat that's been run over by a van),
Filet mignon in Sauce Bearnaise (dog turds covered in glue),
Plum duff (a mole hill decorated in rabbit droppings),
Cream custard (cat's vomit),
Coffee (hot mud), with milk (spit), sugar (dandruff) and rather dubious 'chocolate sprinkles' (try and guess what that one is) .
Apple crumble which contains fish

More rat; sautée, which involves:
taking the freshly shaved rat and marinading it in a puddle (When Blackadder asks how long it should be 'marinated' for, the reply is 'till it's drowned')
stretching it out under a hot lightbulb
getting within dashing distance of a latrine
scoffing it right down!
Rat fricassée, which is the same as above, but a slightly bigger rat.

They don't even serve MILK with the coffee, the heathens. This country was built on milk. Cows, everywhere!

"The island, made holy by the prayers of millions of pilgrims over the centuries."

I find this stuff so depressing. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I wonder if the pilgrims are supposed to feel some sense of guilt, for any luxury in their life?



Cold, wet, barefoot, waiting for a spot near the cross to mumble to yourself as it rains on you. (predominantly female)


Christianity has taught these poor old craters that they are filthy sinners who must beg forgiveness. When I picture 'bad' people, old ladies wouldn't be the first demographic to spring to my mind.
This carry on reminds me of that lunatic; Matt Talbot. From his wiki:

He slept on a plank bed with a piece of timber for a pillow.

I heard that Matt used to do a big shop in Tesco's, wheel the trolley outside the car park, and dump it all in the canal. Because he didn't deserve it. The truth to that story is debatable.


What interests me, is that you won't find any wealthy people carrying on like these pilgrims or Talbot. It always seems to be the poor, the peasants. Give them an expensive meal or some sort of luxury, and they'll be whipping themselves for a year. Maybe not literally, but the guilt is there. Meanwhile the Royal Family have gold leaf passing through their bowels. To they feel like sinners? Do they f*ck!


"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca


Finally, if you want to pay €70 for the privilege of getting barefoot with a load of oddball strangers, talking to yourself for extended periods (praying) and denying your body a good meal for 72 hours, St Patrick's Purgatory on Lough Derg has it all. Bring the kids*!


* Don't bring the kids. Forcing your child to fast for 3 days is a form of child abuse and they don't want the Garda over again.

kylith

Meh. If they want to report on it let them. I don't see the point of reporting on golf either, but they do that too.

Although whenever I hear of stuff like this it makes me want to show up and do it with a stout pair of boots and a full packed lunch. "Pilgrimage? Oh dear me, no. I'm just here for a walk".

Nodin

They consecrated a stone to the victims of church abuse, then went and put it on lough derg. True story.

lazygal

Nodin wrote: »

They consecrated a stone to the victims of church abuse, then went and put it on lough derg. True story.

The holy stone of Clonrickert?

Nodin

lazygal wrote: »

The holy stone of Clonrickert?

Nope, the 'Holy Stone Of We're Really Sorry Let's Hide This Thing On That Feckin Island Was I Meant To Engrave That....?'

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Not outside the primates gaff, a cathedral, but the very hub of modern Ireland - Lough Derg. I suppose its a concession that it ended up on the island and not in the lake.

Not a NSA agent

Nodin wrote: »

Nope, the 'Holy Stone Of We're Really Sorry Let's Hide This Thing On That Feckin Island Was I Meant To Engrave That....?'

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Not outside the primates gaff, a cathedral, but the very hub of modern Ireland - Lough Derg. I suppose its a concession that it ended up on the island and not in the lake.

They're still waiting for god to send down lots of money and evidence for court cases I assume.

uck51js9zml2yt

joseph brand wrote: »

Christianity has taught these poor old craters that they are filthy sinners who must beg forgiveness.

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

Nodin

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

Right, ye've lost me. Mind you I'm a catholic atheist, so not too suprising.

(Christianity In It's Correct Form TM?)

lazygal

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

My word. How did you come across Christianity in its correct form?

kylith

Nodin wrote: »

Nope, the 'Holy Stone Of We're Really Sorry Let's Hide This Thing On That Feckin Island Was I Meant To Engrave That....?'

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Not outside the primates gaff, a cathedral, but the very hub of modern Ireland - Lough Derg. I suppose its a concession that it ended up on the island and not in the lake.

Beats the hell out of actually doing anything to make amends, I suppose.

uck51js9zml2yt

lazygal wrote: »

My word. How did you come across Christianity in its correct form?

If you're referring to Biblical Christianity as opppsed to the tenets of a denominations, very easy...I picked up the new testament and it rather than relying on so called theologians to tell me what it said.
But dont let me stop you from beleiving in "Flying Spaghetti Monsters"

Nodin

kylith wrote: »

Beats the hell out of actually doing anything to make amends, I suppose.

Well its typical of the liberal agenda to say blessing a stone and hiding it on a damp midge bitten island, as opposed to paying off a few hundred million to the state, is doing nothing.

Cabaal

Newstalk you say?

I have no problem with this, as long as its not tax payer money then let them sleep on dead frogs in the name of god and report a 20hour show on it for all I care.
Those pictures make it look miserable,

magicbastarder

a bit mean spirited, this thread.
why not leave people to do whatever they want and only stick your nose in if it affects you?

pH

magicbastarder wrote: »

a bit mean spirited, this thread.
why not leave people to do whatever they want and only stick your nose in if it affects you?

There's a huge difference in what's happening in this thread and what you're implying - these *people* are being left alone - no one is stopping them doing this, nor is anyone suggesting we might want to stop them, nor is anyone suggesting that there should be protests, signs or mockery of anyone actually doing this. These people have been left to to whatever they want - what's happening here is a discussion on what they're doing - on an obscure forum in a corner of the internet with a minimal amount of mockery and disrespect. Contrast that with actually doing things to people in the real world that actually affect their lives, like depriving non-religious parents of an education system that their taxes have already paid for - now that's mean spirited.

And perhaps you could take a dose of your own advice? How does the discussion here affect you? and if it doesn't then why stick your nose in?

Kidchameleon

pH wrote: »

Contrast that with actually doing things to people in the real world that actually affect their lives, like depriving non-religious parents of an education system that their taxes have already paid for - now that's mean spirited.

The people referred to in the OP are responsible for that?

galljga1

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

If you're referring to Biblical Christianity as opppsed to the tenets of a denominations, very easy...I picked up the new testament and it rather than relying on so called theologians to tell me what it said.
But dont let me stop you from beleiving in "Flying Spaghetti Monsters"

Equally as made up, I suppose. I am an invisible pink unicorn type of dude although I do like the term pastafarian.

Seth Brundle

Nodin wrote: »

(The "Healing Stone" - "Lord, we are so sorry for what some of us did to your children: treated them so cruelly, especially, in their hour of need. We have left them with a lifelong suffering. This was not your plan for them or us. Please help us to help them. Guide us, Lord, Amen.”)
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/healing-stone-for-lough-derg-1.720159

Wait. This cant be a true story. There was no collection!

kylith

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The people referred to in the OP are responsible for that?

Do you think that the people on this pilgrimage would be for or against secularising education?

magicbastarder

i couldn't give a toss what they are for or against. they're not the ones in a position to do anything about it, generally.

this is what i was getting at; if the people above are getting something out of their pilgrimage, leave them to it. generally the discussions in this forum focus more on how religious ethos in this country affects non-believers, and doesn't spend as much time criticising what believers actually do in the pursuit of their belief. which is their business. i don't care if they whip themselves with birch branches or walk over hot coals while singing in tongues; that's immaterial. yes, let us talk about catholic ethos in schools, but to suggest that the pilgrimage above is relevant in that debate is simply wrong.

magicbastarder

pH wrote: »

And perhaps you could take a dose of your own advice? How does the discussion here affect you? and if it doesn't then why stick your nose in?

just to tackle this question too - because atheism (like it or not) has gained a reputation with the wider public for playing the man and not the ball. tackle religious ardour where it seeks to impinge on your life, and take it as a given that religious people will get up to modes of worship that you will find baffling.

if i was to start a thread somewhere on boards about S&M practices along the lines of 'look at what these odd people get up to', many people would say to me 'sure what do you care, leave them to it', and they'd be dead right.

Kidchameleon

kylith wrote: »

Do you think that the people on this pilgrimage would be for or against secularising education?

You'd have to ask them. What exactly does your question have to do with this thread?

recedite

Vanessa Faithful Heap wrote: »

Don't normally venture in here (too scarey) but I must correct you.
catholicism teaches that a sinner must beg for forgiveness.
Christianity in its correct form says that we can't earn our forgiveness because Jesus paid the price for it
We just need to acknowledgeour sin, ASK Gods forgiveness , receive it and stop doing what we did.
No need for penance etc...

I'm not debating flying spaghetti monsters etc just setting the record straight.

I take your point that the notion of penance as a remedy for past sins is not universal in Christianity, its more of an RC thing. It all goes back to the faith V good works debate. And BTW, either doctrine can be justified by quoting biblical passages, because the Bible is so self-contradicting.

As we are discussing the pointless hardship people are imposing on themselves on some miserable island of Lough Derg, lets look at the point of penance itself.

The point is to "make up" for some sin, a sin being an offence perpetrated against some other person or against a god.

If its against a person, say stealing their bike, then neither doctrine is going to fix it. The obvious remedy is to give the bike back.
You being miserable on Lough Derg is not doing the victim any good. Neither is you believing in Jesus with all your heart, if you don't give the bike back.

Suppose you committed an offence only against the god, say taking his name in vain, or failing to pray often enough. Then he may actually feel better by seeing you all miserable. Who knows. He may also feel better seeing you declaring your faith as a born again Christian, and maybe you will be totally forgiven by faith alone.
IMO if you think he is watching you, the best plan would be to hedge your bets and do both.

Hotblack Desiato

It really is hilarious to see a believer use an atheist forum to try to score points against a very slightly different belief :rolleyes:

As for thread topic, pointing and laughing at people doing stupid things is an internet tradition

Fleawuss

magicbastarder wrote: »

just to tackle this question too - because atheism (like it or not) has gained a reputation with the wider public for playing the man and not the ball. tackle religious ardour where it seeks to impinge on your life, and take it as a given that religious people will get up to modes of worship that you will find baffling.

if i was to start a thread somewhere on boards about S&M practices along the lines of 'look at what these odd people get up to', many people would say to me 'sure what do you care, leave them to it', and they'd be dead right.

Extraordinary assertions about perceptions of the wider public. The atheists and agnostics I know have long since rubbished the nonsense that makes up the dogma of religion. People who believe such manifest nonsense and attempt to make it a basis for societal laws or beheadings or whatever need to be confronted about trying to impose "revealed" nonsense on those who have seen through it.
What's the harm in Lough Derg? It saddens me to see people encouraged to abuse themselves physically through hardship and psychologically through subservience to a "God" who is pleased by such obeisance and attacks on their self esteem. But if they do that and leave it at that, fair enough. And fair enough that people in this forum look on it as another example of the absurdity religion leads to in the lives of many, I am certain, decent human beings.

joseph brand

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It really is hilarious to see a believer use an atheist forum to try to score points against a very slightly different belief :rolleyes:

As for thread topic, pointing and laughing at people doing stupid things is an internet tradition

Fail Compilations on YouTube being one example. 'You've Been Framed' being another. Imagine watching video of the pilgrimage in Lough Derg, with a laugh track. :pac:

joseph brand

magicbastarder wrote: »

a bit mean spirited, this thread.
why not leave people to do whatever they want and only stick your nose in if it affects you?

I'm pretty sure that you're not new to this forum, which is confusing. Why do you sound so surprised? May I take this moment to ward you off visiting the thread titled: The "Funny ha, ha" side of religion!

Anyway, my 'beef' is not with the poor craters who have been hoodwinked into walking around in their bare feet, on empty stomachs, whispering to mossy boulders in the hope that they will be 'forgiven' for their apparent sins.

Taken from: Why I Am Not A Christian by Bertrand Russell

When you hear people in church debasing themselves and saying that they are miserable sinners, and all the rest of it, it seems contemptible and not worthy of self-respecting human beings. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world, and if it is not so good as we wish, after all it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all these ages. A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a regretful hankering after the past or a fettering of the free intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men.

The church has made eejits out of these people. But according to you, we should just keep quiet.

pauldla

joseph brand wrote: »

Fail Compilations on YouTube being one example. 'You've Been Framed' being another. Imagine watching video of the pilgrimage in Lough Derg, with a laugh track. :pac:

Watch it at double speed with Yakety Sax playing. :pac:

magicbastarder

Fleawuss wrote: »

People who believe such manifest nonsense and attempt to make it a basis for societal laws or beheadings or whatever need to be confronted about trying to impose "revealed" nonsense on those who have seen through it.

beheadings? imposing? what are you talking about? these are people who are engaging in what (certainly was their assumption anyway) was a mode of worship which was not engaging with any of the above.

like i said, playing the man and not the ball. even if you've turned this particular man into some sort of mutant bogeyman to suit your argument.

re Hotblack Desiato's comment - so JB is a believer of a different stripe?

Hotblack Desiato

magicbastarder wrote: »

re Hotblack Desiato's comment - so JB is a believer of a different stripe?

No, Tatranska is, it goes like this:

Atheist: "Haha look at what those silly catholics are doing"
Non-catholic christian: "Yeah, I mean their beliefs aren't biblically sound, and stuff"
Atheist: "WTF? Your beliefs are equally unevidenced and ridiculous"

Fleawuss

magicbastarder wrote: »

beheadings? imposing? what are you talking about? these are people who are engaging in what (certainly was their assumption anyway) was a mode of worship which was not engaging with any of the above.

like i said, playing the man and not the ball. even if you've turned this particular man into some sort of mutant bogeyman to suit your argument.

re Hotblack Desiato's comment - so JB is a believer of a different stripe?

Its very obvious that I am talking about religious believers imposing their beliefs through law or violence on non believers. Very obvious. The attempt to twist the argument is yours: I pointed very clearly that the "ball" of religion, to use your own metaphor, is an empty nonsense and I also pointed that the "man" needs to be challenged if he believes that his beliefs give him the right to behead in the name of Islam or ban access to divorce or condoms as we had here for many years, in the name of the RCC. I haven't described any mutant bogeyman: I've described what religious believers do when they think that some god or other told someone thousands of years ago how humanity should live for ever more.

The people in Lough Derg I very clearly described at the end of my post. But don't let facts and clarity get in the way of another outburst.