Cabin baggage on EI... a mild rant

Noxegon

Cabin crew on my EI flight tonight made somewhere in the region of ten PA announcements insisting that all backpacks/etc must be put under the seat leaving the overhead bin for larger objects. I saw a crew member actually removing backpacks from the overhead and insisting that their owners put them under the seats in front of them.

I know that the aim is to get everyone's bag on board. I understand that. However, surely this is the wrong approach. If I travel with less, then I get no leg room, whereas if I carry a maximum size suitcase it can go overhead and I can stretch out (as far as possible in an economy class seat).

Would it not be sensible to incentivise customers who choose to carry less, rather than penalise them? How hard can it be to actually enforce cabin bag size regulations at the gate?

roundymac

From what I'v seen over the years if that were the case the majority of hand luggage would end up in the hold.

rrpc

Is it really the situation that these carry on 'cases' are oversize? I know a lot of them are hard cases and incapable of fitting under the seats even though they're inside or equal to the size specifications. Backpacks are possibly being selected for under seat storage because they're soft and 'squeezable'.

Aer Lingus have a maximum size of 55 x 40 x 24cm and Ryanair 55 x 40 x 20cm with a maximum weight of 10Kg.

munchkin_utd

I fail to see the problem
If theres not enough room above, then either rolly bags end up in the hold or you make space for them above by removing backpacks and random junk (duty free, jackets etc) and letting the passenger stow them under the seat in front.

ok, strategically you could think or argue that asking folks to put a backpack under a seat would lead to more rolly bags, but, a full flight often means a lot of occasional travellers who wouldnt really be thinking strategically about the overhead/ under seat conundrum. They just land on a plane and feck every class of sh1te in the overhead locker and have to be told a dozen times to cease and desist to make way for bags which only fit above.

goingnowhere

The number of people I see who throw everything into the overhead is scary, coats, shopping, hand bags everything. They then of course sit down only to get up 5 minutes later to have a rummage through all their junk causing a delay to everyone else boarding.

rrpc

goingnowhere wrote: »

The number of people I see who throw everything into the overhead is scary, coats, shopping, hand bags everything. They then of course sit down only to get up 5 minutes later to have a rummage through all their junk causing a delay to everyone else boarding.

+1
This is one of the main problems. Also, you often see people putting their cabin bags into the overhead locker sideways which automatically takes at least 15cm from the linear capacity of the locker. The lockers are designed to take the bags end in and make more room available.

Locker10a

As cabin crew boarding is the worst part of the day and for this very reason Cabin luggage can be a complete nightmare sometimes ! it depends on the individual crewmember but also on the route, I personally try and avoid asking people to place bags underneath the seat in front as I understand that some people check a bag and just carry on a small rucksack and I feel it unfair to restrict their leg room because other people have been too cheap to check in a bag. However there is a negative impact and that is that more trolley cases get offloaded from the aircraft and placed into the hold and this can cause a headache for people who are getting connecting flights for example at Heathrow and Amsterdam or CDG ! Offloading cabin bags also delays departure overall cabin luggage create a nightmare for ground staff and crew alike! It causes delays and in my opinion the only way to minimise the impact of this is to be proactive at the gate, ask for volunteer bags to go in the hold and count the amount of trolley bags that are allowed on board the aircraft! For example on an A320 you only fit about 70 trolley bags in the overhead lockers ! So if 100+ people turned up with trolley bags and expect to bring them in the cabin you're going to have trouble!
I heard from someone at Ryanair that last year they offloaded 1 million cabin bags due to this problem last year!

fits

On finnair, frequent flyers ( a high proportion of their passengers) can check in bags for free. Seems to ease the burden enough.

Penalty

Locker10a wrote: »

I personally try and avoid asking people to place bags underneath the seat in front as I understand that some people check a bag and just carry on a small rucksack and I feel it unfair to restrict their leg room because other people have been too cheap to check in a bag.

100% agree with this.

I travel a lot - if I have a trolley I'll keep my backpack with me but if I don't have anything else to put overhead than I'm putting my one bag up there and I don't expect to be asked to move it because everyone else decided to bring a trolley bag on board.

Responsibility rests with the airline and I think that's why ryanair are being proactive on busy flights and asking when checking bags in to put carry on bags in the hold for free. For me its a no brainer - if I have to wait on 1 bag I may as well wait on another.

Noxegon

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I fail to see the problem

I have long legs. Pushing my backpack under the seat in front of me means that I have to sit in a way that is not comfortable. That is why I put my bag overhead by default.

If all backpacks must be placed under a seat then my only way to avoid a miserable flight is to travel with a larger bag then I would otherwise need so that I am allowed to put it overhead.

Passengers should be incentivized for carrying less, not punished.

chanelfreak

There is a special place in hell for people who put their cases in sideways. I can only assume that they are complete idiots and the amount of time it wastes while the cabin crew try to play bag tetris is unreal.

If it was me, I would ban trolley cases altogether and go with squishy bags only in the cabin.

Riskymove

Noxegon wrote: »

Passengers should be incentivized for carrying less, not punished.

while the basic concept of this is correct, what else can an airline do when the flight is full and people have brought a lot of hand luggage?

roller cases or similar cannot go under seats and therefore must go overhead or alternatively in the hold

rucksacks/holdalls can go under seat

JuliusCaesar

I just love it when Ryanair start handing out tags for cases. Mine's small enough to go in the overhead, I travel frequently, but it's so much easier to board without it. I'm disappointed when I get to the boarding desk and nobody suggests a tag. :-(

Since most people travel just with carry-ons, there's no wait at the other end.

Noxegon

Riskymove wrote: »

while the basic concept of this is correct, what else can an airline do when the flight is full and people have brought a lot of hand luggage?

My preference would be to allow people to try to store overhead, and then gate check if no space is available and the bag is too big to go underneath the seat.

Alternatively, the airlines could set (and enforce) maximum dimensions at a level where there would be enough space for one bag per passenger.

Or they could install bigger overhead bins (and yes, I know EI flies Airbus).

Penalty wrote:

if I don't have anything else to put overhead than I'm putting my one bag up there and I don't expect to be asked to move it because everyone else decided to bring a trolley bag on board.

This.

Riskymove

Noxegon wrote: »

My preference would be to allow people to try to store overhead, and then gate check if no space is available and the bag is too big to go underneath the seat.

however, all these options will penalize some passengers

all of whom have followed the rules of the airline



I doubt reducing the size of permitted cabin bags would be widely welcomed tbh

Locker10a

Penalty wrote: »

100% agree with this.

I travel a lot - if I have a trolley I'll keep my backpack with me but if I don't have anything else to put overhead than I'm putting my one bag up there and I don't expect to be asked to move it because everyone else decided to bring a trolley bag on board.

Responsibility rests with the airline and I think that's why ryanair are being proactive on busy flights and asking when checking bags in to put carry on bags in the hold for free. For me its a no brainer - if I have to wait on 1 bag I may as well wait on another.

The problem with this is people who have connecting flight and may need to travel with their carry-on case! In this case we would have to do all possible to ensure their bag stays with them, under these circumstances small things may need to be removed from the locker to make space! Remember there is no RIGHT to have your bag stowed in a certain place! there is no RIGHT to leg room! for guarantee leg room you would need to book an exit row.
Back to the topic though! This is something that can and should be prevented by check-in and gate staff! Some are excellent and efficient at this other are useless and this normally varies depending on the airport or handling agent!

Locker10a

chanelfreak wrote: »

There is a special place in hell for people who put their cases in sideways. I can only assume that they are complete idiots and the amount of time it wastes while the cabin crew try to play bag tetris is unreal.

If it was me, I would ban trolley cases altogether and go with squishy bags only in the cabin.

Whats worse is the amount of people who have trolly bags with BROKEN HANDLES ! That won't retract into the case! This mean they have to stow the case with the handle fully extended! and this then takes up the space of 2 if not 3 carry on bags as it has to go in sideways !

chanelfreak

Locker10a wrote: »

Whats worse is the amount of people who have trolly bags with BROKEN HANDLES ! That won't retract into the case! This mean they have to stow the case with the handle fully extended! and this then takes up the space of 2 if not 3 carry on bags as it has to go in sideways !

Yep, that very thing happened on the last flight I was on a couple of weeks ago. If I was one of the cabin crew, I would have battered him with it especially as he was making a big song and dance about having to put his massive coat and duty-free bags under his seat *shakes fist*

arubex

Perhaps the interim solution would be to stow the backpacks at the feet of the passengers with the large rigid cases...

Greenmachine

Aerlingus have terrible enforcement of cabin baggage rules. I often see people bring case on board that are not much smaller than my suitcase.

IRLConor

Locker10a wrote: »

Whats worse is the amount of people who have trolly bags with BROKEN HANDLES ! That won't retract into the case! This mean they have to stow the case with the handle fully extended! and this then takes up the space of 2 if not 3 carry on bags as it has to go in sideways !

Repeatedly drop the bag with the handle side down until it snaps off! Problem solved!

For various reasons I haven't flown carry-on-only in over a year now. The experiences above make me very glad that I can squish my carry-on small enough to fit both it and my legs under the seat in front and let everyone else fight over the bin space.

Skuxx

I flew back from Frankfurt to Dublin with Lufthansa last night and was thinking about this same issue while sitting in the airport! There seemed to be absolutely no restrictions on the amount of hand luggage people brought on board! There was people with suitcases, backpacks, a handbag and a duty free shopping bag, only to go and put them all into the overhead bins and the crew did nothing about it! I was one of the last to board, sitting in row 8 but my one bag was way back the plane as it was the only space I could find! I then had to wait for everyone to get off so I could make my way back the cabin to get my bag!
I know it's a first world problem but it's frustrating when the airline advertise 1 piece of cabin luggage per person but don't enforce it!

Stealthirl

If bags were put in the bins the right way it would help alot.
Doesn't the size restrictions mean the max size bag would fit on its side

Greenmachine

Stealthirl wrote: »

If bags were put in the bins the right way it would help alot.
Doesn't the size restrictions mean the max size bag would fit on its side

If people stowed their bags like that it would be heaven. Maybe they need put put in little slots. Place your main bag in a single slot everything else under your feet. Doesn't fit in the slot, in the cargo hold for you.

rrpc

Greenmachine wrote: »

If people stowed their bags like that it would be heaven. Maybe they need put put in little slots. Place your main bag in a single slot everything else under your feet. Doesn't fit in the slot, in the cargo hold for you.

Just from memory of my last flight, but I don't think the lockers would have taken bags in that configuration. What aircraft is that picture taken from?

The problem with hand baggage is one of the airlines own making. Once they started charging extra for checked bags it was an inevitability.

Simon Gruber Says

I'd often pay the extra for an exit row on an EI flight longer than 2 and a half hours. The cabin crew are meant to keep the lockers above these rows free because all baggage needs to go up for takeoff and landing. However, very often by the time I get on, they have been opened and are full, probably because EI board the middle of the plane last and by that time there's no room left elsewhere.

antodeco

The travel bag I have fits perfectly underneath the seat. I can still put my legs out no problem. I actually dont like putting my bag in the overhead. Mainly because I dont want to inconvenience others if I need something from it (plus its quicker as I can board last).

However, Ryanair have been insistent that I put the bag in hold as there is not enough room in the overheads. I have had some debates with them over the fact that I have one small bag that fits under the chair, whilst others are being let on with 2 or 3 bags in some cases, that also look a little borderline size wise!

roundymac

What I find annoying is, say if I'm booked in row 10 and someone in front of me put's their bag in the bin overhead row 10 and then sits in row 20. I stopped complaining to EI cc, they'r just not interested. I have pointed it out to the offending traveller, shrug of the shoulder to "eff off"is the general reaction.

munchkin_utd

Stealthirl wrote: »

If bags were put in the bins the right way it would help alot.
Doesn't the size restrictions mean the max size bag would fit on its side

nope, the normal aer lingus/ lufthansa bins are only half the height so you have to lie the bag flat.

those bins are only available since september so obviously no on the Aerlingus fleet (yet)
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/airbus-launches-new-pivoting-overhead-carry-on-stowage-bins-for-a320-family-with-order-from-delta-ai/

Rawr

roundymac wrote: »

What I find annoying is, say if I'm booked in row 10 and someone in front of me put's their bag in the bin overhead row 10 and then sits in row 20. I stopped complaining to EI cc, they'r just not interested. I have pointed it out to the offending traveller, shrug of the shoulder to "eff off"is the general reaction.

This and the incredibly selfish practice of some passengers of dumping their gear in the first few overhead bins, and then proceeding many rows back to their seat. All in the name of laziness on their part.

Never once does it occur to them that those people in those rows have little option to go back and use 'their' bins (especially during boarding, with people pouring in).

I wonder if there's anyway to stop that beyond enforcing a strict system where everyone *must* bring a uniform carryon bag, which can slot into the overhead bin, into a slot that has been marked for each individual seat.

It would seem unfortunate for such a system to happen, given that the civil well-behaved 90% of PAX would need to abide by it in order to keep the childish 10% in check.

IRLConor

roundymac wrote: »

What I find annoying is, say if I'm booked in row 10 and someone in front of me put's their bag in the bin overhead row 10 and then sits in row 20. I stopped complaining to EI cc, they'r just not interested. I have pointed it out to the offending traveller, shrug of the shoulder to "eff off"is the general reaction.

This is precisely the behaviour that encouraged me first to do my utmost to get on the plane early and then just give up and only bring what I can comfortably fit under the seat in front.

eusap

in Dublin AL have the bag dimension checking frame with the weighing scales built in, i don't remember them ever asking somebody to check the cases fits.

On Monday i had a guy in front of me at security with a Trolley Bag, a laptop bag, and a suit bag. How they are allowed board with that amount is crazy

Airlines created this problem as many have said by charging for hold baggage, so if it starts increasingly to delay departure times then they'll have to deal with it.

Realistically I can't understand why anyone needs that much onboard and generally no one takes much out of their overhead bags during most short haul flights, so from that 90%+ are bringing stuff that should be carried in the hold bags in their cabin bag so they can bring extra on their trip or bring home purchases.

It really needs to be poliiced better at checkin and at the gate, at least that is why I thought they had those bag size frames for. I too have seen passengers throw their bags in the first available bin as they get on and then walk to the back of the aircraft, the way around that is to only have the last few bin doors open and as boarding commences get passenger at the rear to only put stuff in theirs and work forward. It really isn't fair when you get on and in the empty seat rows to the front of the aircraft you see full or nearly full bins. Many a time I've seen passengers at the front having to go back through people behind to get their bags down so they can leave.

The whole boarding process from getting the correct people to board first through to this baggage issue really isn't handled well these days, every flight they announce for people to step in and sit down quickly .

IRLConor

Deleted User wrote: »

Airlines created this problem as many have said by charging for hold baggage, so if it starts increasingly to delay departure times then they'll have to deal with it.

Well, all that combined with the fear of bags being lost or damaged. Also if you've a tight schedule at the far end you might not like to gamble that your destination airport is one of the ones where the bags come out very slowly.

Fred Swanson

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The Rape of Lucretia

chanelfreak wrote: »

There is a special place in hell for people who put their cases in sideways. I can only assume that they are complete idiots and the amount of time it wastes while the cabin crew try to play bag tetris is unreal.

You are most unfair. They are not complete idiots.


While frequent fliers on the bargain airlines are fully aware of the hand luggage stowage problem, there are many who are quite reasonably unaware of it; they travel rarely, not all budget flights have the problem, not all flights have such stowage problem inducing baggage charges.

And so it is perfectly natural to assume that there is not a game of tetris to be played and that the overhead stowage is sized to take their bags without messing about to scrape ever cubic mm of efficiency.

Stowing stuff at your feet is unacceptable to me and I wont do it. The airlines are to blame for this problem, not the customer.

chanelfreak

Yeeeeeah, I'm going to go ahead and still call them idiots.

Even if there is no issue with storage in the overhead bins, it really doesn't take a genius to figure out that putting cases in the bins horizontally takes up a hell of a lot more room than putting them in vertically. Meaning that if everyone was to do that, you would inevitably have to put some of your baggage under the seat in front of you, which you said you won't do.

eatmyshorts

chanelfreak wrote: »

Yeeeeeah, I'm going to go ahead and still call them idiots.

Even if there is no issue with storage in the overhead bins, it really doesn't take a genius to figure out that putting cases in the bins horizontally takes up a hell of a lot more room than putting them in vertically. Meaning that if everyone was to do that, you would inevitably have to put some of your baggage under the seat in front of you, which you said you won't do.

I agree fully. Unfortunately 90% of people leave their common sense and courtesy at the check in desk.!

rrpc

chanelfreak wrote: »

Yeeeeeah, I'm going to go ahead and still call them idiots.

Even if there is no issue with storage in the overhead bins, it really doesn't take a genius to figure out that putting cases in the bins horizontally takes up a hell of a lot more room than putting them in vertically. Meaning that if everyone was to do that, you would inevitably have to put some of your baggage under the seat in front of you, which you said you won't do.

I'd agree with this to an extent. From the passenger's point of view, it's not that obvious that their carry on will go in to the locker end-on because the door of the locker actually allows more room than would be readily spotted. The bag can protrude quite a bit from the locker 'shelf' before it prevents the door being closed.

IRLConor

chanelfreak wrote: »

...it really doesn't take a genius to figure out...

eatmyshorts wrote: »

...Unfortunately 90% of people leave their common sense and courtesy...

Along with one of the other posters on this thread I used to work on the end of a phone doing tech support. When expressing sentiments like those above, I was told by a colleague:

"Think of how dumb the average person is. Now realise that half the population is dumber than that."

Replace "dumb" with "thoughtless" and you shouldn't be surprised at the kind of ridiculous stuff people will do with their baggage on a plane.

Noxegon

eatmyshorts wrote: »

Unfortunately 90% of people leave their common sense and courtesy at the check in desk.!

I'm not sure you can blame passengers for that.

Air travel nowadays involves queuing for long periods, unpacking your bags in front of everyone, pat down searches, and delays - followed by hours of sitting in a cramped seat listening to screaming babies, sales pitch over the PA system, and yet more queuing after landing.

If air travel was a less horrible experience for the average punter, frequent fliers notwithstanding, then I expect that consideration and courtesy would be more forthcoming.

jaymcg91

That's absolute rubbish - I fly multiple times a month and I'm always polite, friendly and courteous no matter the line / delays.

People should just be a smidgen less selfish and not take their bad mood out on other people.

Complaining about air travel lines is such a first world problem it's ridiculous.

Noxegon

Well, the original poster did say 90%

I guess you're one of the 10%. And more power to you.

roundymac

Noxegon wrote: »

I'm not sure you can blame passengers for that.

Air travel nowadays involves queuing for long periods, unpacking your bags in front of everyone, pat down searches, and delays - followed by hours of sitting in a cramped seat listening to screaming babies, sales pitch over the PA system, and yet more queuing after landing.

If air travel was a less horrible experience for the average punter, frequent fliers notwithstanding, then I expect that consideration and courtesy would be more forthcoming.

So because people are not enjoying their flight it's normal to not show any consideration or courtesy, is that what your saying?

A Dub in Glasgo

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stowing stuff at your feet is unacceptable to me and I wont do it

Why?

Tenger

rrpc wrote: »

Just from memory of my last flight, but I don't think the lockers would have taken bags in that configuration. What aircraft is that picture taken from?

The problem with hand baggage is one of the airlines own making. Once they started charging extra for checked bags it was an inevitability.

That pic is a PR image for either the next Boeing or Airbus locker design. Both A350 and B787 currently have lockers that allow sideways stowed rollies cases.



Personally I hate wheeled cases....it encourages people to pack heavier and only realise as they go to put it into the locker

Tenger

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

..........................................
Stowing stuff at your feet is unacceptable to me and I wont do it. The airlines are to blame for this problem, not the customer.

So you expect you refuse to fly with EI as their stowage procedures are now part of their T's &C's. Cabin bags in locker, personal items at your feet.

IRLConor

Tenger wrote: »

Personally I hate wheeled cases....it encourages people to pack heavier and only realise as they go to put it into the locker

Whatever about the dimensions, people should be forced to demonstrate that they can lift their case above their head. Too many people make it to the aircraft and then can't physically lift their case into the bin. :rolleyes:

eatmyshorts

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Stowing stuff at your feet is unacceptable to me and I wont do it. The airlines are to blame for this problem, not the customer.

If people like you would start showing a bit of personal responsibility, instead of holding everyone else at fault, then maybe things would be better.

Noxegon

roundymac wrote: »

So because people are not enjoying their flight it's normal to not show any consideration or courtesy, is that what your saying?

Not exactly. What I am saying is that when people are put through a stressful/generally unpleasant experience it is somewhat understandable that tempers fray.

It's not quite the same thing, but this article is relevant here:
http://www.dailyprogress.com/starexponent/opinion/columnists/airlines-to-blame-for-reclining-air-rage/article_3f96bd68-31ce-11e4-a1fa-001a4bcf6878.html

Fred Swanson

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