Ethiopian Airlines DUB-LAX Question

Redderneck

Have asked in Travel forum but this might be a better place:

There's no preclearance in Dublin for this flight, so am wondering if anyone has heard anything about how much hassle/time is involved clearing in LAX is from this flight?

Ethiopia would be regarded by the US as a fairly high-risk point of origin and I'm slightly concerned that clearance could be a hugely time-consuming effort which would negate the other benefits of the flight; great tiimings, only direct connection, good pricing.

Anyone know/heard anything?

Noxegon

Unless something has changed, all international flights heading into LAX end up in the same place. Your wait for clearance will depend on how long the queue is at that time -- and presumably how quickly you get off the plane!

Redderneck

The front of queue high hurdles is something I know well! My own travels have taught me - no matter how nice it would be in an ideal world for it to be otherwise - that certain nationalities; therefore certain airlines/flights coming from certain points of origin, tend to take longer than others to process. Language barriers, preconceived notions reinforcing behaviours, etc. I'll not say anymore than that on the issue.

I was just wondering if anyone had firsthand experience of the flight and how smoothly or not the process was at the other side.

I've slowed down as I got older and being a coach-riding cheap bastid to boot, my expectation would be that I would NOT be at the head of any queue...

trellheim

LAX depends on what flights you land with ... I had the misfortune once to be behind 3 flights from Mexico when coming in from LHR.

3 hours to get through.

BuffyBot

Noxegon wrote: »

Unless something has changed, all international flights heading into LAX end up in the same place. Your wait for clearance will depend on how long the queue is at that time -- and presumably how quickly you get off the plane!

Not all, but most of the long haul flights from most of the non-US carriers (who have their own terminals and facilities for the most part, and some of their alliance partners etc may also be using them).

OP: for the high risk aspect, folks with an EU passport on the flight wouldn't really raise too many eyebrows, especially as they know the flight has rights to pick up passengers in DUB.

As for the LAX factor: as described above, it really depends what else you come in behind/alongside. They do have self-service machines for ESTA approved travelers now, and have made improvements with the recent expansion of the terminal.

It used be the 9th circle of hell on occasions. Maybe about the 5th now

mojopin10

Sorry to revive this but flying Dub-LAX on Friday and wondering does the Ethooian Airlines flight have wifi on board? Can't find an answer online

As an aside there is talking of both Ethiopian and the USCBP wanting this and possibly their other flights pre-cleared in Dublin.

maximum12

Bit of a logistical nightmare to have some of the passengers pre-cleared for immigration and customs and others not.

maximum12

maximum12 wrote: »

Bit of a logistical nightmare to have some of the passengers pre-cleared for immigration and customs and others not.

Wouldn't happen. You'd clear the entire flight or you'd leave the entire flight. I'd see them deplaning at DUB, clearing all intending pax & flying on as a cleared flight. Similar happens with BA001 in SNN.

mojopin10

Wifi Lads? Yay or nay?

maximum12

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't happen. You'd clear the entire flight or you'd leave the entire flight. I'd see them deplaning at DUB, clearing all intending pax & flying on as a cleared flight. Similar happens with BA001 in SNN.

So it's not going to happen at all.

the aircraft spends an hour on the ground.

if a passenger originating in ADD is refused entry by US immigration in DUB what happens next. They can't be immediately returned and are unlikely to have a valid entry visa for Ireland. I'm guessing US immigration don't have facilities to detain passengers in DUB.

maximum12

mojopin10 wrote: »

Wifi Lads? Yay or nay?

Check the airline website, they will lit what the inflight services are.

Most airlines still don't have international wifi

Noxegon

maximum12 wrote: »

I'm guessing US immigration don't have facilities to detain passengers in DUB.

They do, actually.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/134364-us-prison-cell-dublin-airport-t2.html

Pat Dunne

Noxegon wrote: »

They do, actually.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/134364-us-prison-cell-dublin-airport-t2.html

Here is a more direct link http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t2-arrives-with-a-lot-of-baggage-1.625817

Irish Steve

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't happen. You'd clear the entire flight or you'd leave the entire flight. I'd see them deplaning at DUB, clearing all intending pax & flying on as a cleared flight. Similar happens with BA001 in SNN.

The much bigger problem would be that as well as immigration, the outbound flights from Dublin also clear Customs at Dublin. Whatever about clearing the passengers in an hour, it's a different ball game if you have to take all the bags off, get the passengers to claim them, and go through customs and immigration, and then load everything back in again.

That's going to be a massive exercise to arrange and manage, as that would also mean having to clear the incoming passengers through Irish Immigration in order to get them to the baggage belts for the reclaim, or there would have to be a new belt put in that would enable them to remain airside before going to border control.

Noxegon

Irish Steve wrote: »

The much bigger problem would be that as well as immigration, the outbound flights from Dublin also clear Customs at Dublin. Whatever about clearing the passengers in an hour, it's a different ball game if you have to take all the bags off, get the passengers to claim them, and go through customs and immigration, and then load everything back in again.

That's going to be a massive exercise to arrange and manage, as that would also mean having to clear the incoming passengers through Irish Immigration in order to get them to the baggage belts for the reclaim, or there would have to be a new belt put in that would enable them to remain airside before going to border control.

Hmm, is there a belt like that in Shannon for the BA LCY-JFK flight?

(And yes, I know it's a much smaller flight...)

Irish Steve

Noxegon wrote: »

Hmm, is there a belt like that in Shannon for the BA LCY-JFK flight?

(And yes, I know it's a much smaller flight...)

Not only is it a much smaller flight, but the origin is within the common travel area, so there's no immigration formalities to worry about, so a very different processing requirement.

JCX BXC

Irish Steve wrote: »

Not only is it a much smaller flight, but the origin is within the common travel area, so there's no immigration formalities to worry about, so a very different processing requirement.

Could you elaborate a little if possible? How does the flight being in the CTA affect anything?

Irish Steve

Carnacalla wrote: »

Could you elaborate a little if possible? How does the flight being in the CTA affect anything?

The formalities for a transit passenger will be less onerous, if they boarded from the UK, which is the only option in this case, while it is technically possible for a passenger to require a visa to enter Ireland, it is unlikely, as there are very few countries that do not have an automatic right of entry to Ireland having gained access to the UK.

That is very much not the case for the flights from Addis Ababa, where there is a good chance that most, or even all of the inbound passengers will require a visa to enter Ireland, even as a transit passenger, so processing them through the T2 system will be a much bigger deal than processing UK originating passengers. As far as I know (I've not been through T2 yet), there is no facility to segregate transit passengers from inbound passengers in the baggage hall, and to get access to the baggage hall requires incoming passengers to have passed through immigration if their flight originated outside of the UK CTA. Processing 35 (approx) passengers at Shannon from the UK, or (possibly) 200+ at Dublin from Addis Ababa are 2 very different scenarios.

The Veteran

Irish Steve - no foreign national (or to be precise non-national) has an automatic right of entry to the State. A passenger who seeks an airside transfer does not seek entry to the State and thus their transit to transfer flights might be facilitated but their entry to the state would be a different matter.

For information, the Visa Order was amended in 2015 to facilitate the Ethiopian transit and tech stop flights so that Ethiopian Nationals do not require transit visas provided they are transiting en route to the US and have US visas (same applies if they are en route to Canada). The ET504 flight is considered a tech stop as the pax do not get off the flight and arrive\depart on the same aircraft.

The CTA arrangement only applies to eligible nationalities travelling directly between the two States. The BA flight that stops in SNN would not qualify as the passengers are not travelling between CTA ports.

Pre-clearance is a big overhead and also must be paid for and would require ET operating from T2 which is virtually impossible given the hours of opening of Pre-Clearance and the clout of the carriers already in place.

Irish Steve

Thanks for the update. The point I was trying to make, and not doing very well, is that the design of T2 is such that a transit passenger that is then proceeding to US border processing has to effectively "enter" Ireland, in that the immigration checks occur before the baggage belts, and to the best of my knowledge, even if there is a route to get to US border processing while remaining airside, which is where the difficulty arises, there are no controls or segregation systems in place to ensure that transit passengers collecting bags from the belts then proceed to the US border checks, once in the baggage hall, it is possible to exit to "landside" without further checks other than customs, as the immigration checks occur before the baggage hall. Processing up to 200 passengers through "the system" in significantly less than an hour is going to be problematic, especially at the time of day that the flight passes through. At present, the only passengers that come into the system are those that are landing in Ireland, which is probably a relatively small number. If the whole flight has to be processed, that's a very different ball game.

The Raptor

mojopin10 wrote: »

Sorry to revive this but flying Dub-LAX on Friday and wondering does the Ethooian Airlines flight have wifi on board? Can't find an answer online

Flew this flight a couple of weeks ago. No WiFi on board.

The Veteran

If Ethiopian were using Pre-Clearance; there is no reason why their passengers (originating in Addis) could not be routed directly from the aircraft into Pre-Clearance or via the Transfer Corridor. The luggage identification can happen without the passenger collecting their luggage. It would be logistically challenging but not much more so than normal US bound transfers

goingnowhere

As Ethiopian use T1, no pre clearance possible

cowboyBuilder

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't happen. You'd clear the entire flight or you'd leave the entire flight. I'd see them deplaning at DUB, clearing all intending pax & flying on as a cleared flight. Similar happens with BA001 in SNN.

Is that the A318 that replaced the Concorde ?

JCX BXC

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Is that the A318 that replaced the Concorde ?

Yeah.

JCX BXC

goingnowhere wrote: »

As Ethiopian use T1, no pre clearance possible

We've established that, but that's probably the least of the barriers, a move to T2 is easy, there's several other barriers too.

Marcusm

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Is that the A318 that replaced the Concorde ?

It's probably easier to consider it as the A318 which, for marketing reasons, carries a flight code historically used by Concorde.

cowboyBuilder

Sure, but it's kitted out all 1st class yeah ?

orionm_73

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Sure, but it's kitted out all 1st class yeah ?

No it has 32 Club World seats. They aren't identical to the rest of the fleet Club World, but it's isn't First.

Pat Dunne

Carnacalla wrote: »

We've established that, but that's probably the least of the barriers, a move to T2 is easy, there's several other barriers too.

What other barriers might be involved in such a proposed move?

JCX BXC

Pat Dunne wrote: »

What other barriers might be involved in such a proposed move?

Perhaps some already mentioned in the thread? Is the point now invalid somehow because its being posted by me?

*Timing, flights arrive and depart before USPC opens

*Lack of Capacity in T2 in peak times

*Possible difficulty with visas (whether a transit visa is required or not, I'm unsure)

May be all moot anyway as Shannon are talking to Ethiopian about a cargo route. You could extrapolate from that why would they split the routes up, I personally reckon they may move the tech stops to Shannon apparently they've been grumbling about the level of service they get in Dublin.

Whether that means they would discontinue the LAX route as a pickup and change it to a tech stop who knows.

percy212

Flying LAX to Dub later this year. Ethiopian have good prices. How is the comfort etc in coach? How much better or worse than EI, UA for example?

Jamie2k9

(I've not been through T2 yet),

Not to go off topic but have you really never arrived into T2 since it opened?

Pat Dunne

Carnacalla wrote: »

Perhaps some already mentioned in the thread? Is the point now invalid somehow because its being posted by me?

*Timing, flights arrive and depart before USPC opens

*Lack of Capacity in T2 in peak times

*Possible difficulty with visas (whether a transit visa is required or not, I'm unsure)

Just asking a question, I presumed you had more to add which hadn't been previously mentioned by other posters, that's all.

murphaph

Does anyone know if any of the other airports with USPC allow transiting passengers (originating from flights coming from countries who would require a visa to land in that country the USPC facility is located) to use the USPC facilities?

I would have kind of expected the T2 design to accommodate such movements or was is not foreseen even a few years ago that DUB could become a hub?

The Veteran

Passengers who require visas to land use the Transfer options in Dublin everyday. Those who need transit visas also transfer in\at Dublin everyday. If a passenger remains airside they are not landing but availing of an airside transit.

There are certain passengers who do not "transfer" at Dublin:

- those who are not travelling on an interline ticket for luggage purposes being the largest category which would include all Ryanair passengers and other Airlines who do not sell transfers via Dublin (eg Emirates, American, etc)

The airport, inT2 is equipped to do Transfers including into Prea-Clearance - it was designed to handle pre-clearance transfers.

murphaph

I'm confused :-)

So IF Ethiopian started using pre-clearance at DUB, the pax would be deplaned (and their luggage removed from the hold for customs inspection) and make their way to where? Would they pick up their bags (let's assume most pax going ADD-LAX have at least one checked bag) to clear US customs with their bags? If so, where would they pick up their bags while remaining airside?

maximum12

murphaph wrote: »

I'm confused :-)

So IF Ethiopian started using pre-clearance at DUB, the pax would be deplaned (and their luggage removed from the hold for customs inspection) and make their way to where? Would they pick up their bags (let's assume most pax going ADD-LAX have at least one checked bag) to clear US customs with their bags? If so, where would they pick up their bags while remaining airside?

It's not going to happen. It doesn't help passengers or the airline.

Marcusm

murphaph wrote: »

I'm confused :-)

So IF Ethiopian started using pre-clearance at DUB, the pax would be deplaned (and their luggage removed from the hold for customs inspection) and make their way to where? Would they pick up their bags (let's assume most pax going ADD-LAX have at least one checked bag) to clear US customs with their bags? If so, where would they pick up their bags while remaining airside?

At SNN, BA pax are shown an image of their bags and asked to confirm ownership. I think that would be more difficult for the ET flights given the number of pax and likely luggage levels.

January

Marcusm wrote: »

At SNN, BA pax are shown an image of their bags and asked to confirm ownership. I think that would be more difficult for the ET flights given the number of pax and likely luggage levels.

This is what happens at DUB for pre-clearance too. You are showed a picture of your bag and asked to confirm it is yours.

Marcusm

January wrote: »

This is what happens at DUB for pre-clearance too. You are showed a picture of your bag and asked to confirm it is yours.

I know but the issue is trying to unload a complete 787 scan and photo the luggage and, only after you have completed that, trying to run all the pax through the CBP service. It would significantly increase the amount of time on the ground.

Noxegon

Marcusm wrote: »

I know but the issue is trying to unload a complete 787 scan and photo the luggage and, only after you have completed that, trying to run all the pax through the CBP service. It would significantly increase the amount of time on the ground.

If the will was there the luggage could be photographed at ADD to preempt that.

There are obvious complexities -- but it wouldn't be impossible.

Tenger

January wrote: »

This is what happens at DUB for pre-clearance too. You are showed a picture of your bag and asked to confirm it is yours.

Yup. This image is taken as you check in at the desk in Dublin T2. The image is linked to the barcode on your boarding card.
The CBP officials then require you to visually ID your bag.

So 1 hurdle with pre-clearing ET in DUB would be how to and when to image the ADD-LAX bags.

Does ET install CBP compliant devices for this one flight which then forward the data to DUB, assuming the pax dont lose the boarding catds enroute? This is fraught with exposure to technical issues.

The simple solution of everyone off and rechecked in before going through CBP would make the 1 hour tech stop into a 3+ immigration stop. Neither the airline or the pax want that.

Marcusm

Noxegon wrote: »

If the will was there the luggage could be photographed at ADD to preempt that.

There are obvious complexities -- but it wouldn't be impossible.

I doubt that they (CBP) would accept the image scanning and processing at Addis.

The Veteran

Ethiopian operates to Washington via Dublin every day with 390 seats on board. They also fly to JFK but not via Dublin.

If a PreClearance solution could be designed at Addis then it could serve LAX, Washington and JFK routes. No real reason why the data could not be on a web server with a disc carried on the flight as a back up.

A bigger logistical challenge would be the opening hours of CBP in Dublin.

Repeat

Anyone actually flown it who can comment on the experience? In addition to the clearance issues I see they are using 787s. How is the comfort? I find Aer Lingus seats are like a rock. Are these any better? Is the cabin noise and humidity really better in the 787? Thanks.

_dof_

Repeat wrote: »

Anyone actually flown it who can comment on the experience? In addition to the clearance issues I see they are using 787s. How is the comfort? I find Aer Lingus seats are like a rock. Are these any better? Is the cabin noise and humidity really better in the 787? Thanks.

I wrote this last year following a return flight DUB-LAX. Was very happy. Seats more comfortable than Aer Lingus A330, which I find to be like a rock too.

There are a few other reviews in that thread too.

Wanderer2010

Review of LAX to Dublin using Ethiopian Airlines

I came home from LA last week on this route and here is my review:

Checked in online 24 hours beforehand and was very surprised to see so many seats available to pick. I picked one behind the exit row Seat 29A in Zone 4. I don't like exit rows as the seat width is reduced and I find using the IFE too awkward. Mine was a window seat and very soft and comfortable.

My departure time was 2:45pm with arrival in Ireland at 9am the following morning. Got to the Tom Bradley terminal two and a half hours before flight, the EE terminal number was clearly marked on the many screens by the entrance. I went to "Bag Drop" after a short wait of 5 minutes and got my bag through and my boarding pass from the friendly man on duty. I only had one bag but EE allow 2 bags up to 23kg each for free which is decent. They also say that your hand luggage can be up to 7kg but as usual this rule is ignored and I saw people bringing bags and bags of hand luggage through with them.

After a short trip through security I got my Gate Number and had a drink to settle down and wait. Flight boarded promptly on time and even at that point I could see how many seats were free. I would say the flight was about 55-60% full and was roughly half people who were getting off at Dublin and the rest on to Addis Abbabu.

The aircraft was a Boeing 787 Dreamliner one of their new craft, very impressive with wide toilet doors and a tinted window system to match day and night. I never flew a Dreamliner before and the take off felt different to me, it felt kind of "lighter" as we gained altitude as if it was just floating, strange feeling for such a heavy plane and not the usual roaring fast take-off like the Airbus.

I took my seat and I had the whole row to myself. The seats are 3-3-3 configuration. The flight crew were friendly enough, not overly so or not rude just average. We got overnight bags with eye mask and toothbrush. Flight started and I checked out my IFE. The range of modern films were a bit poor in my opinion, I didn't really recognise a lot of them and I suppose this reflects the market as there was an "African Films" section. Having said that there was plenty of tv comedy options like Big Bang Theory and Two and a Half Men as well as Dramas and a lot of modern music options.

The PA system is first in Ethiopian, obviously, but the English announcements weren't the best I have to say. It seemed very laboured and I would say the crew and pilot have a poor to average grasp of English plus there were 2 announcements near the end which were Ethiopian only which is against the law as far as I'm aware, all announcements must have an English equivalent for the benefit of all passengers so watch out for that.

My big problem with the IFE is that every single time you pick a new show or movie to watch you are forced to look at the 120 second advertisement about EE and all the great places they fly to and the entertainment to offer (I notice Dublin wasn't on the list, no High Def filter perhaps??), which was very annoying and there was no skip option as far as I could see.

We were served our dinner and a drink about 30 minutes after reaching cruising altitude. I picked a coke and the dinner option was Chicken or Beef (what a surprise!), I picked the chicken and I got chicken with rice and peas, cheesecake, bread roll with butter and a coffee. Nothing to write home about very average and I have never once had a fresh bread roll on any trip I took, I would say its there about 2 days before serving. Disappointing.

After dinner most people settled down for sleep and people who had a whole row, in other words most people, lied down with the blanket for some shut-eye. I personally cant sleep on planes due to the noise so I was enjoying looking at the Rockies and IFE but the crew dimmed the window lights so it looked like it was pitch black outside so I couldn't look outside or take pictures which was a bit annoying. I got the sense that we were like kids and the crew dictated our plan "Food. Now Sleep. Now wake!".

A few hours passed as I was watching tv, then about 3 hours before landing we were offered water, then about 2 hours before landing we were served breakfast which was an omelette and scone with jam, Again, very average. I also noticed the crew physically woke people up when coming through with breakfast something I never saw before, usually they just leave the tray next to a sleeping person. But they were almost shouting until you woke up and even shook their legs "Sir wake up its breakfast!". Must be their policy...

The toilets were clean and adequate and there were 4 in my zone (didn't notice the others) so no queues and the doors are very wide. There was a good bit of turbulence near Dublin but that could be any airline so doesn't affect the review. We landed and the people leaving for Dublin got off but the others stayed. I presume a different crew and pilot got on at Dublin for the journey to Africa. Overall a very pleasant experience and an excellent way to go direct from LA to Ireland but take it now as I cant imagine this route is that profitable what with all the empty seats!!

P.S I was told after that the Cloud 9 or First Class section had 4 empty seats so if you are brave enough why not ask for a free upgrade when checking in?? The worst they can say is no. I lost my nerve at last minute!

Hope this review has been helpful.

Comhrá

Very interesting review.

I would love to fly in the B787 but the idea of having no choice re viewing from the window would be a big minus for me as I always prefer window seats, and sometimes I find the views out to be more absorbing than some of the movies available.

On transatlantic Eastbound flights I love sitting in a left side window seat for the dawn/sunrise experience, so would hate not to have the option of a view out.