Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

put 3 cows in calving paddock today, first one was served to yad on 30/11 only dry 27 days. Say she will calve in the next day or 2

What dry cow tube did she get

mf240

Timmaay wrote: »

Agreed Freedom about buying in, I'm sorta worried about the lack of progress to compact spring calving here 2bh. I threw everything at breeding this season, maize to help cow condition, alot more time spend on heat detection, using coils, estrumate, and 2bh have ended up with a big AI bill, probably a worn out bull who has had to do way too much work with repeats ha, and plenty of empties still. Also I'm going to have a fun argument with my dad who will no way agree to culling young cows as such ha.

Some cows just take their time about going back incalf . Its all the same what ya throw at them.

If id own them id milk them until next feb while feeding well, and then drop them into the factory on my way to a dairy sale for fresh calvers.

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

What dry cow tube did she get

ubro red

Timmaay

whelan2 wrote: »

had a big ai bill here too- spread it over 4 months- bull was very busy when he went into cows, he is out 4 weeks now, I ai'd 5 cows since he went out with kya. Will scan in afew weeks, scanned the heifers a few weeks ago and that went well- they had been with aa bull, is your bull still with the cows? Some of the empties could still be in calf

Yeh Bull still in, I only had the chap in scanning for the heifers as they are going off the farm over the next few days, but thought I'd do the cows while he was at it. 25 of them cows showed up as empty, I'd guess at least 15 are empty. My dad is telling me to go again with Estrumate on any of the young cows who are dirty (and unlikely to be incalf), I don't have the energy or enthusiasm for this anymore ha, esp as many of them 1st lac cows could dry themself off come oct and be dry for 6months.

whelan2

at this stage bull is probably tired, take him out ai any that come in heat for the next week or so with kya and work from that. Hopefully then you will have no June calvers- although its no bad thing as they will keep your milk going next summer.

caseman

Timmaay wrote: »

Scanned the heifers and rest of the cows today. Didn't go well! Anyways after updating ICBF with both days of scanning, 37 feb calvers, 19 March, 20 April, and 20 either empty or too soon to tell. 9 of them 20 empties are pushing on and I'll cull them definitely, don't know what the fcuk to do with the rest, 6 are 1st lactation and 4 2nd lactation, one heifer also, but she was too small in fairness. Afew cows incalf that I really need to cull also, 2bh I'll end up with a cull rate of 25 or 30% this year at least.[/QUOT

Whats the cow type tim.

Timmaay

Mix of everything by now ha, but still too many HOs with little regard for fertility, having said that the empties aren't all this, some high EBI young cows empty also.

mahoney_j

Tim ****ty position to be in and will not be very easy to rectify it unless drastic action is taken .think there may not be a better one to cull hard and restock with feb calvers over the next 10 months or so .if fininacly possible I'd pick a date say 10 April and anything with due dates after that either sell in calf or convert into one of frazzled happy meals.keep your ear to the ground and I guarntee you'll be well able to restock with lots of first,second calves calving in feb for reasonable money .your onto a winner straight away then as these stock will leave a lot more money through extra milk in the tank .other option you have depending on how much of what sort of a liquid/winter contract u have is to bull nothing for winter 16/17 carry them over or sell and fill ur winter contract with April may calves

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

Mix of everything by now ha, but still too many HOs with little regard for fertility, having said that the empties aren't all this, some high EBI young cows empty also.

Tim what level of feed is going into these cows ,real milky hol cows need a lot of feed pissible these ain't getting enough energy in and milking off there back ??

RightTurnClyde

Timmaay wrote: »

Agreed Freedom about buying in, I'm sorta worried about the lack of progress to compact spring calving here 2bh. I threw everything at breeding this season, maize to help cow condition, alot more time spend on heat detection, using coils, estrumate, and 2bh have ended up with a big AI bill, probably a worn out bull who has had to do way too much work with repeats ha, and plenty of empties still. Also I'm going to have a fun argument with my dad who will no way agree to culling young cows as such ha.

Tim, I dont use maize but I remember hearing somewhere that maize can be a killer on fertility. Now maybe I'm imagining it, it was something to do with vit E, I think. And has to be heavily balanced fertility mineral wise.
Could be completely wrong, maybe it rings a bell with someone better at cow diets than me?

caseman

Timmaay wrote: »

Mix of everything by now ha, but still too many HOs with little regard for fertility, having said that the empties aren't all this, some high EBI young cows empty also.

Have you a vaccination plan in place, though your reply would have being all Ho.

Timmaay

mahoney_j wrote: »

Tim what level of feed is going into these cows ,real milky hol cows need a lot of feed pissible these ain't getting enough energy in and milking off there back ??

Don't worry I might be a fan of NZ and low input systems etc, but I don't mind at all feeding cows well. Condition is definitely better this year, mix between calving down better, and better grassland management. Fertility actually hasn't dis-improved or anything ha, We always end up with calving running into the end of May at best, but I'm just frustrated that despite throwing the kitchen sink at it this year I'm largely seeing no benefits. Well actually the one positive from today, most the heifers incalf, The only definite empty was a small April born who missed the cut when I pulled the bull, another one was bulling 2wks ago so too early to tell.

Timmaay

caseman wrote: »

Have you a vaccination plan in place, though your reply would have being all Ho.

Only vaccinate for Lepto and IBR. Difficult calvings are an issue still, with retained cleanings etc, We got bloods taken with any troublemakers last Dec, but nothing really lacking. Cows and heifers have to be well covered for minerals, between a mix of minerals in the nuts, buckets, dusting the silage, and bolus's for troublemakers. Big enough spend with all of this, easy to do at 39cent/litre but wayyy too much a hit and miss approach moving forward.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Timmaay wrote: »

Don't worry I might be a fan of NZ and low input systems etc, but I don't mind at all feeding cows well. Condition is definitely better this year, mix between calving down better, and better grassland management. Fertility actually hasn't dis-improved or anything ha, We always end up with calving running into the end of May at best, but I'm just frustrated that despite throwing the kitchen sink at it this year I'm largely seeing no benefits. Well actually the one positive from today, most the heifers incalf, The only definite empty was a small April born who missed the cut when I pulled the bull, another one was bulling 2wks ago so too early to tell.

That's one positive anyway, Tim. Those heifers will be the basis of your herd for the next 5 years and seem to manage well just the way you're working at the minute.

Panch18

Timmaay wrote: »

Agreed Freedom about buying in, I'm sorta worried about the lack of progress to compact spring calving here 2bh. I threw everything at breeding this season, maize to help cow condition, alot more time spend on heat detection, using coils, estrumate, and 2bh have ended up with a big AI bill, probably a worn out bull who has had to do way too much work with repeats ha, and plenty of empties still. Also I'm going to have a fun argument with my dad who will no way agree to culling young cows as such ha.

Breeding and fertility aren't problems that can be sorted in a year or 2. It takes a good few years to change the fundamental genetics of a herd. Or buy it in

You'll have to formulate a plan for the next 5 years Tim about what you are going to do with infertile cows and stick with it. Personally I would try to source heifers from a fertile herd and cull out your infertile ones and take it from there. Certainly while the cull price is good it makes sense to do that

Panch18

mahoney_j wrote: »

Tim ****ty position to be in and will not be very easy to rectify it unless drastic action is taken .think there may not be a better one to cull hard and restock with feb calvers over the next 10 months or so .if fininacly possible I'd pick a date say 10 April and anything with due dates after that either sell in calf or convert into one of frazzled happy meals.keep your ear to the ground and I guarntee you'll be well able to restock with lots of first,second calves calving in feb for reasonable money .your onto a winner straight away then as these stock will leave a lot more money through extra milk in the tank .other option you have depending on how much of what sort of a liquid/winter contract u have is to bull nothing for winter 16/17 carry them over or sell and fill ur winter contract with April may calves

Agreed completely

Having the bull in with the cows today is madness really, you think you have a cow but in reality you have nothing. A cow bulled today wouldn't be in the tank till June

Timmy I think you need 2 distinct breeding blocks if you are sticking with winter milk, and stick to them rigidly!!

Greengrass1

Would leasing cows be an option tim?
Get 30 or so and it would help you get quality heifers on the ground and use the money from them empties to pat fir them for next yr.
I'm talking a 4-5 yr lease not a yearly one.
Wouldn't cost you as much esp if spring us going to be tough

C0N0R

Having the same problems here, calving spread is absolutely ****e and struggling to get cows in calf this year, pulled the Pin two weeks ago on breeding anything and only going to carry over anything that's justifiable. First autumn called last week and last of spring in May! Calving interval has been running at 370 days the last few years just cows calving at the wrong time, high level of April and May calvers for next year so intention is to carry them through to autumn and reduce number of autumn calvers. Not going to be easy! Have a completely closed herd for the last 16 years apart from stock bull so not used to the idea of purchasing stock but might have to get used to it!

Cow Porter

what do fellas suggest to do with emptys, if they will still be milking away 15-18 litres or so be hard to dry them off, is there a market for them milking??

@ conor not much wrong with 370 days if your split calving, is that from coop report or calving report??

C0N0R

Cow Porter wrote: »

what do fellas suggest to do with emptys, if they will still be milking away 15-18 litres or so be hard to dry them off, is there a market for them milking??

@ conor not much wrong with 370 days if your split calving, is that from coop report or calving report??

Coop report so probably a bit off then I'd imagine? It's technically not a split calving, the split is from 18 dec to 4 jan! :rolleyes::o

jaymla627

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Would leasing cows be an option tim?
Get 30 or so and it would help you get quality heifers on the ground and use the money from them empties to pat fir them for next yr.
I'm talking a 4-5 yr lease not a yearly one.
Wouldn't cost you as much esp if spring us going to be tough

Leasing/buying in is all well and good but the effects on herd health /fertility can be disastrous, we bought in the herd here in 2013 and had numerous issues with cows and that carried into 2014, when we where tb testing the cows the first year the vet said not to get disheartened just run a closed herd from now on, keep up your vaccination programme and everything will work out, he was right with this year going very well.
He even said at the time it will take around 3 years for things to settle down and was right, you might think buying in is a silver bullet solution but given how bad the scanning results seemed for 1st/2nd lactation cows you might just end up with another heap next year scratching your head....

Greengrass1

jaymla627 wrote: »

Leasing/buying in is all well and good but the effects on herd health /fertility can be disastrous, we bought in the herd here in 2013 and had numerous issues with cows and that carried into 2014, when we where tb testing the cows the first year the vet said not to get disheartened just run a closed herd from now on, keep up your vaccination programme and everything will work out, he was right with this year going very well.
He even said at the time it will take around 3 years for things to settle down and was right, you might think buying in is a silver bullet solution but given how bad the scanning results seemed for 1st/2nd lactation cows you might just end up with another heap next year scratching your head....

Plenty leasing cows and have no problems likewise they have problems. No intention of buying in anything here as I've got herd exactly the way I wanted it

Tim you know the very man to go to. Where you got those jex. He might lease stock. You got on well with them

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Plenty leasing cows and have no problems likewise they have problems. No intention of buying in anything here as I've got herd exactly the way I wanted it

Tim you know the very man to go to. Where you got those jex. He might lease stock. You got on well with them

FAIR PLAY if they have no problems never ever buying in here again, will breed my own, set my plans back years, now have every disease going . Its very hard to put a value on knowing your own home bred stock. Obviously I was just unlucky but I have to deal with the mess after buying in

Greengrass1

whelan2 wrote: »

FAIR PLAY if they have no problems never ever buying in here again, will breed my own, set my plans back years, now have every disease going . Its very hard to put a value on knowing your own home bred stock. Obviously I was just unlucky but I have to deal with the mess after buying in

Suppose we were lucky we didn't buy in Amy diseases when we did buy but had plenty other problems with mastitis and phosphoru.
We're only back now to stock numbers we had 11 yrs ago.

whelan2

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Suppose we were lucky we didn't buy in Amy diseases when we did buy but had plenty other problems with mastitis and phosphoru.
We're only back now to stock numbers we had 11 yrs ago.

exactly, buying in might sort problems short term but in the end most of them end up being a long term problem, johnes is the most worrying one as 2-3 year olds wont show up positive on tests at that age

orm0nd

Timmaay wrote: »

Only vaccinate for Lepto and IBR. Difficult calvings are an issue still, with retained cleanings etc, We got bloods taken with any troublemakers last Dec, but nothing really lacking. Cows and heifers have to be well covered for minerals, between a mix of minerals in the nuts, buckets, dusting the silage, and bolus's for troublemakers. Big enough spend with all of this, easy to do at 39cent/litre but wayyy too much a hit and miss approach moving forward.

I'd throw in Salmonella & bvd for vaccines as well,

we bolus at Xmas ( all spring calving) and only other minerals is a pre calving lick in the calving pens, & bioplex mineral pack in the first couple of loads of nuts in the spring


used to have infertility issues but since we adapted above approach things are fine now

not saying it would work for you but stick at it , it will come right in the end

mahoney_j

Agree with ye re buying in stock ,something I never want to have to consider .way too many gambles ,disease been the stand out .if Tim or anyone else wants stock buy from the one stable .look for all the records you can get from owner ,know disease and vaccination plan in place and even at that I'd do a blood or/and milk screen pre movement for bvd ,Ibr scc etc.buying or leasing in the wrong type stock can leave you with a bigger problem than u may of had before

whelan2

used to be calving nearly all year around, now have a 6 week autumn block and calve from end of january to may. Amount of carryovers from spring to autmn and vice ersa lowering each year

yosemitesam1

Timmaay wrote: »

Only vaccinate for Lepto and IBR. Difficult calvings are an issue still, with retained cleanings etc, We got bloods taken with any troublemakers last Dec, but nothing really lacking. Cows and heifers have to be well covered for minerals, between a mix of minerals in the nuts, buckets, dusting the silage, and bolus's for troublemakers. Big enough spend with all of this, easy to do at 39cent/litre but wayyy too much a hit and miss approach moving forward.

Did you take blood from cows that appeared OK?

stanflt

Panch18 wrote: »

Agreed completely

Having the bull in with the cows today is madness really, you think you have a cow but in reality you have nothing. A cow bulled today wouldn't be in the tank till June

Timmy I think you need 2 distinct breeding blocks if you are sticking with winter milk, and stick to them rigidly!!

My bull is still in and will be in for another few weeks

I know you may think it's wrong but I ain't letting cows go out the gate empty

You'd be surprised the money that may and June calvers fetch- always a market in Northern Ireland or UK

I sell most of the late calvers but very few cows leave her empty- 6-7%including deaths but in reality my breeding season is long

Don't get me wrong All the heifers will calf jan - early March as 6 week calving rate is critical for milk solids maximisation

Feel free to criticise