Warble fly

L1985

He guys. Just wondering what people are using to dose cattle with for the Warble fly? ours are being driven cracked at the moment and looking for some ideas of what people used? The pour on we used noromectin doesn't seem to be working and the cattle are being driven into the yards they are so miserable with it. any suggestions?

frogloch

L1985 wrote: »

He guys. Just wondering what people are using to dose cattle with for the Warble fly? ours are being driven cracked at the moment and looking for some ideas of what people used? The pour on we used noromectin doesn't seem to be working and the cattle are being driven into the yards they are so miserable with it. any suggestions?

Are you sure you're talking about a warble (gad) fly? These are flies that lay eggs on the backs of cattle, then the eggs hatch out and the larvae burrow under the skin of the poor unfortunate animal to pupate and turn into a fly and burrow out again. I thought the dept schemes in 60's,70's,80's, got rid of them? I hope you're talking about the horse fly who lands on any animal with blood and injects an anticoagulant serum into the animal and drinks their blood. If you are talking about the horse fly I use Osmonds Ezeepour for the control of lice and flies.

L1985

Well we have always called it the warble fly- the cows are running with their tails up. I don't think it's a horsefly but being honest wouldn't be an expert in flies....
Is there anyway to know?havnt seen any larvae left on cattles backs but would depend on how big it is as mightn't see it. I might look into that treatment then-they in are bits this year.

Auldloon

Warble fly was eradicated in Ireland in the 1960's thankfully. Oops it seems this isn't correct, my bad.

frogloch

L1985 wrote: »

Well we have always called it the warble fly- the cows are running with their tails up. I don't think it's a horsefly but being honest wouldn't be an expert in flies....
Is there anyway to know?havnt seen any larvae left on cattles backs but would depend on how big it is as mightn't see it. I might look into that treatment then-they in are bits this year.

They'll be under the skin and you can see them moving around. You can actually pop them out with a knife. There more common in continental Europe. I doubt very much that there warbles but I could be wrong. I've never seen them down here only the stories my father used to say about them.

Limestone Cowboy

Auldloon wrote: »

Warble fly was eradicated in Ireland in the 1960's thankfully.

They weren't eradicated in the 60's. They are rare but there is still an odd one buzzing about. Girlfriends father had to get a donkey put down a few years back after it got paralysed by one that layed an egg on its back. Her mother had the misfortune to get stung by one about ten years ago aswell.

Auldloon

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

They weren't eradicated in the 60's. They are rare but there is still an odd one buzzing about.

You're right sorry!

Capercaillie

I knew a lad who could make the sound of the warble fly. He was at a cattle fair in Kilkenny years ago (30 years+). He asked a few lads for the price of a pint. They refused so he threatened them that he would make the sound of the warble fly. They foolishly refused to give him the money. He started buzzing like the fly and the cattle went mad and broke out. They should have listened to him.

patsy_mccabe

Jeez, only today I saw one of our cows running with it's tail up. Saw her from the road when passing. Just checked her there now and she seems ok.
I remember the Warble Fly being around. Nasty thing, you could squeeze them out with your thumbs. I thought too that the pour-ons had got rid of them all.

You can see one falling out on this video at 3:55mins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ELe6FTF4A

mf240

Capercaillie wrote: »

I knew a lad who could make the sound of the warble fly. He was at a cattle fair in Kilkenny years ago (30 years+). He asked a few lads for the price of a pint. They refused so he threatened them that he would make the sound of the warble fly. They foolishly refused to give him the money. He started buzzing like the fly and the cattle went mad and broke out. They should have listened to him.

A human parasite making the sound of another parasite.

L1985

We just had the vet here this morning(unrelated obviously) and I asked him. He said if the cattle are running with their tails up it's deff the warble fly and it hasn't been eradicated as it's still around our area. Havnt seen any eggs but better check them out. We are going to try a diff pour on anyway on mon and hopefully itl work.

byhookorbycrook

Def not eradicated.

patsy_mccabe

L1985 wrote: »

.... We are going to try a diff pour on anyway on mon and hopefully itl work.

OP, what part of the country are you in?

L1985

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

OP, what part of the country are you in?

Sth Kilkenny-we are by a river as well and have a wood by one of the fields where it's particularly bad. Great conditions for them or so it seems!

The man in red and black

L1985 wrote: »

Sth Kilkenny-we are by a river as well and have a wood by one of the fields where it's particularly bad. Great conditions for them or so it seems!

I've seen cattle running around like mad with the tails up in Kilkenny about 15 years ago. My father told me it was a warble fly, and used to see them all the time years ago. When we studied the parasite in university the lecturers assured me it is gone 30 years or more but still you hear reports of it so I also think the odd one is still around!

Figerty

We haven't had a warble here in years, but occasionally the cattle go nuts with the tails up. I suspect there is something similar that triggers the old reactions in the cows.

greysides

Dept of Ag: Warbles manifest themselves as bumps rising on the backs of cattle from mid February until the fly emerges between April and June. Herdowners must notify any infestation and may not move infested cattle without a certificate of treatment.
There has been no evidence of warbles in the domestic herd in recent years, but they may be found in imported cattle and this may result in spread requiring area treatment.

This was published in the Veterinary Record in 1985:

The costs of warble fly in cattle have been estimated at 35 million pounds for Great Britain in 1985 and $85 million for Italy in 1982. Control measures within the European Community vary from one country to another and from the voluntary application of systemic products by individual farmers to comprehensive national eradication schemes backed by legislation. Of the countries opting for national eradication measures, Denmark has been successful and the Federal Republic of Germany, the Netherlands, the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland and Great Britain have reduced the incidence of the disease to very low levels. In Great Britain in 1978, 38 per cent of cattle were found to be affected in a survey of selected fatstock markets by the Meat and Livestock Commission. In 1985 the incidence had fallen to 0.01 per cent. Seven hundred and five affected herds were found in Great Britain when the disease was made notifiable in 1982, falling to 419 affected herds in 1985. Treatment of all cattle over 12 weeks old is required in affected herds. Since 1982 parts of Great Britain where the disease has persisted or where there is evidence of a recrudescence have been designated 'infected areas' in which all cattle over 12 weeks old have been required to be treated within specific dates. In addition to statutory measures the control measures in Great Britain include the inspection of cattle at auction markets and on farms. Work on the application to field conditions of an ELISA test is in progress, with encouraging results. It is considered that Great Britain is now well placed to eradicate warble fly.

My own opinion is that a lot of the gadding attributed to Warble flies is due to other flies. The Deer Warble fly is still around and, I believe can infect cattle but the warbles do not mature properly to propagate it.

Any suspect flies I've sent off have come back as Tabanid species (Horseflies, not the usual one), particularly this fellow, the Giant Dark Horsefly:

Nekarsulm

As a kid got a right good poisoning while using the organo-phosporous warable fly treatment. It got transferred to the top rail of the crush from an animal, and I got dosed while leaning over the rail. Couple of days sick, and a good rash across the stomach.

Markcheese

Nekarsulm wrote: »

As a kid got a right good poisoning while using the organo-phosporous warable fly treatment. It got transferred to the top rail of the crush from an animal, and I got dosed while leaning over the rail. Couple of days sick, and a good rash across the stomach.

Met a department vet who wouldn't even step into a yard if he thought the farmer used organo-phosphate ...

Nekarsulm

Markcheese wrote: »

Met a department vet who wouldn't even step into a yard if he thought the farmeigano-phosphate ...

Yeah, some people's central nervous system particularly sensitiveto OP. Witnes the shepards poisoned and incapacitated by dip in the 80's, while oothers dipped all their lives and no effects.

KatyMac

Man who lives near me was poisoned with organo phosphates from dipping sheep, he is allergic to any chemicals now, can't even be near somebody with aftershave/perfume or anything on them.

Comic Book Guy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Jeez, only today I saw one of our cows running with it's tail up. Saw her from the road when passing. Just checked her there now and she seems ok.
I remember the Warble Fly being around. Nasty thing, you could squeeze them out with your thumbs. I thought too that the pour-ons had got rid of them all.

You can see one falling out on this video at 3:55mins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ELe6FTF4A

Am I the only one uncontrollably itchy all over having watched that?!

I was sure they had been eradicated but obviously not.

L1985

Well the vet kind of laughed at me when I asked if they had been eradicated and said no the numbers had gone down in the 60s but it's still around.he just said if they have the tail up it's a classic sign of warble fly and tbh we seem to have them every summer- it's just particularly bad this year.i didn't think in my first post it was any sort of issue if they existed- I just wanted the best dose to get rid of them!!

minktrapper

Has anyone a photo of a Warble Fly.

cj maxx

minktrapper wrote: »

Has anyone a photo of a Warble Fly.

Go back about 5 posts on this thread to a post by greysides and theres a photo at the end of it

minktrapper

cjmc wrote: »

Go back about 5 posts on this thread to a post by greysides and theres a photo at the end of it

That is a Giant Dark Horse Fly.I actually had one of theses in my tractor last week.I took a photo of it.

Water John

Sorry, Greysides notes above that the photo is a type of horse fly.
The road rally cars of the late 70's seemed to mimick the warble fly, cattle going beserk, tails up.

cj maxx

Sorry . I didnt read the post , just seen it and warble fly together and ASSumed it was one

TITANIUM.

I just searched for images of the warble fly.
Holy sh1t there's some horrible images. Viewer discretion advised.

L1985

Odd this reopened now-our cattle are going cracked again with the flies-same thing tails up and they bolt in to the yard!! Have to dose them tomorrow.

inthepit

Today I saw the bull with his tail straight up and running faster than I had seen before.Then I noticed two more flys over the heifers.That was the first time that I have seen warble fly.

Irish Beef

inthepit wrote: »

Today I saw the bull with his tail straight up and running faster than I had seen before.Then I noticed two more flys over the heifers.That was the first time that I have seen warble fly.

Looked out into the field at front of the house yesterday and saw the bull running with its tail up, was just thinking it could be the warble fly and yesterday I saw one on his back and a whole load of small flies around him, then he flew off. I remember years a go my mother popping loads of larvae out of the cows backs, but I haven't seen them for years, but they're Definitely back. just now sure what to threat him with.

LostCovey

I believe that warble fly is completely eradicated from Ireland and has been for well over 20 years, and that what is being described in these posts is cattle responding to things that sound like the cattle warble fly.

Things ike the deer warble fly, horse flies etc.

The last places in Ireland that the warble flie hung on in were Achill, Belmullet, the Burren and north Longford, and I think the last phases of the eradication programme focussed on those areas till it was gone.

Evidence that it has been eradicated
1. Warbles are never seen in winter (these are the swellings under the skin, with the larva inside a cyst) by vets or farmers
2. Hide damage would be evident in meat plants and tanneries. The warble fly eradication campaign was driven as much by the leather industry as for farming
3. These gadding reports are sporadic and describe fairly mild changes in behaviour. When warble flies were present in the country, cattle 'gadding' from the fly would charge through fences - older vets talk about the amount of work it made for them, stitching legs and teats on summer evenings. Doesn't happen any more.
4. Nobody has produced a warble fly or a larva, or photos of warbles in Ireland since the early 1990s

I stand to be corrected - never say never, but the discovery of warbles in Ireland would be BIG news, and treatments have moved on a long way from organophosphates, so if ye have evidence, lets be seeing it!!!!

LC

Irish Beef

LostCovey wrote: »

I believe that warble fly is completely eradicated from Ireland and has been for well over 20 years, and that what is being described in these posts is cattle responding to things that sound like the cattle warble fly.

Things ike the deer warble fly, horse flies etc.

The last places in Ireland that the warble flie hung on in were Achill, Belmullet, the Burren and north Longford, and I think the last phases of the eradication programme focussed on those areas till it was gone.

Evidence that it has been eradicated
1. Warbles are never seen in winter (these are the swellings under the skin, with the larva inside a cyst) by vets or farmers
2. Hide damage would be evident in meat plants and tanneries. The warble fly eradication campaign was driven as much by the leather industry as for farming
3. These gadding reports are sporadic and describe fairly mild changes in behaviour. When warble flies were present in the country, cattle 'gadding' from the fly would charge through fences - older vets talk about the amount of work it made for them, stitching legs and teats on summer evenings. Doesn't happen any more.
4. Nobody has produced a warble fly or a larva, or photos of warbles in Ireland since the early 1990s

I stand to be corrected - never say never, but the discovery of warbles in Ireland would be BIG news, and treatments have moved on a long way from organophosphates, so if ye have evidence, lets be seeing it!!!!

LC

Well like I said in previous post I saw a very large fly as big as a bumble bee on the bulls back, but it wasn't a bee, it was more like a really big fly but black and , Also I haven't seen cattle running like that with their tail straight up in a long time, How can it be such a coincidence that many people are seeing the same thing, also like a previous poster I'm also situated in south Kilkenny. How long does it take for the eggs to hatch, Ill bring that bull into crush and examine the area where I saw the Fly.

ganmo

LostCovey wrote: »

Things ike the deer warble fly, horse flies etc.

horse flies are stealthy little buggers, no sound and ya can barely feel them landing

bogman_bass

LostCovey wrote: »

I believe that warble fly is completely eradicated from Ireland and has been for well over 20 years, and that what is being described in these posts is cattle responding to things that sound like the cattle warble fly.

Things ike the deer warble fly, horse flies etc.

The last places in Ireland that the warble flie hung on in were Achill, Belmullet, the Burren and north Longford, and I think the last phases of the eradication programme focussed on those areas till it was gone.

Evidence that it has been eradicated
1. Warbles are never seen in winter (these are the swellings under the skin, with the larva inside a cyst) by vets or farmers
2. Hide damage would be evident in meat plants and tanneries. The warble fly eradication campaign was driven as much by the leather industry as for farming
3. These gadding reports are sporadic and describe fairly mild changes in behaviour. When warble flies were present in the country, cattle 'gadding' from the fly would charge through fences - older vets talk about the amount of work it made for them, stitching legs and teats on summer evenings. Doesn't happen any more.
4. Nobody has produced a warble fly or a larva, or photos of warbles in Ireland since the early 1990s

I stand to be corrected - never say never, but the discovery of warbles in Ireland would be BIG news, and treatments have moved on a long way from organophosphates, so if ye have evidence, lets be seeing it!!!!

LC

LC? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Capercaillie

bogman_bass wrote: »

LC? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Common things are common, rare things are rare!

greysides

bogman_bass wrote: »

LC? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Not so lost any longer.

patsy_mccabe

bogman_bass wrote: »

LC? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

....and the dead arose and appeared to many!!!!

inthepit

After a bit of a search I think this is probably what I saw.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8Qu_TlfCg
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/argus/news/insect-mystery-solved-26936198.html
None the wiser,but better informed

LostCovey

bogman_bass wrote: »

LC? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

zom·bie (zŏm′bē)
n.
1.
a. In voodoo belief and popular folklore, a corpse that has been reanimated, especially by means of a supernatural power or spell.

L1985

Our vet told me they are still around anyway and that the tail up in the air is a deff sign. So saying we havnt had to burst any blisters or anything off animals backs so I'm not sure. LC what are you using to stop it? Our usual dose immectin? isn't strong enough in July /August.

Kovu

Noticed a cow with a very raised lump on her neck this morning, almost like a tb reaction. Have to get her in for AI tomorrow morning so will check it out then.

Czhornet

My father, says that the Warble lays the eggs in the feet around the ankles and then the larvae crawl up under the skin to the back. Then the lumps appear when the larvae is about to appear, and when there are open sores on the back, the larvae/fly is gone. Seen one here last year, like a huge bumble bee with a 2 inch pointy straw sticking out of its mouth. Fecking yolks!

LostCovey

Czhornet wrote: »

My father, says that the Warble lays the eggs in the feet around the ankles and then the larvae crawl up under the skin to the back. Then the lumps appear when the larvae is about to appear, and when there are open sores on the back, the larvae/fly is gone. Seen one here last year, like a huge bumble bee with a 2 inch pointy straw sticking out of its mouth. Fecking yolks!

What you have described doesn't remotely sound like it was a warble fly, which is a fairly ordinary looking, large brown & black fly. That sounds a lot more like a scary looking but utterly harmless wood wasp as linked by InThePit above.

Here's a photo of a warble fly

https://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www3.telus.net/conrad/imagesinsects/22f.gif&imgrefurl=http://www3.telus.net/conrad/insects/botfly.html&h=236&w=206&tbnid=H4miMCmHBC6REM:&tbnh=160&tbnw=139&docid=vbk71LevlZSlVM&itg=1&usg=__AKlUb2FwvxgFoLTbrWasf505aqM=

Your dad is spot on about how the fly lays its eggs and the migration up to the animal's back, but the cysts or warbles are large and obvious on the animal's back. I saw them when they were common here and an animal would have up to a dozen of them, as big as half a hen's egg, so I don't believe that this disease and this nuisance of a fly has survived without someone somewhere producing a warble fly in a jar or a hide or photos of same.

Its gone thanks be to God. I hope.

LC

LostCovey

L1985 wrote: »

Our vet told me they are still around anyway and that the tail up in the air is a deff sign. So saying we havnt had to burst any blisters or anything off animals backs so I'm not sure. LC what are you using to stop it? Our usual dose immectin? isn't strong enough in July /August.

What am I using to stop something I am saying was eradicating 40 years ago? Nothing.

Either I am missing something here.....or you have mis-typed something.........

greysides

Without checking, because I've never, ever, seen them, the lumps come up in late winter/early spring. Not this time of year however. Treatments that kill warbles need to be timed as killing the migrating larvae when they are around the spine can cause problems. I've never heard of any of these problems and people are using doses at all times of the winter.

As far as I'm concerned, they're gone in cattle.

Base price

My Uncle and a neighbour squeezed a warble grub from the back of a cow when I was a child. I sat on the top bar of the crush fascinated and disgusted at the same time by the procedure. Still remember it to this day

cj maxx

bogman_bass wrote: »

LC? Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Thought i spotted that earlier, but thought no more about it . Thought LC was in oz or nz or somewhere

L1985

Well somethings bothering the cattle-some sort of insect and I'm wondering if ppl have something stronger they are using when the cattles tails are up and they are running? i don't know if it's warble or not (when I started this thread I didn't know it was even a q!)but I do know somethings driving out cattle cracked and the usual dose isn't working. So what are ppl using to combat it?ivermectins not working

Irish Beef

L1985 wrote: »

Well somethings bothering the cattle-some sort of insect and I'm wondering if ppl have something stronger they are using when the cattles tails are up and they are running? i don't know if it's warble or not (when I started this thread I didn't know it was even a q!)but I do know somethings driving out cattle cracked and the usual dose isn't working. So what are ppl using to combat it?ivermectins not working

Saw a big fly going around again this morning landing on cattle, when he lands he stays there for a few mins and appears to be doing something, Took a picture of him on my phone but its not near clear enough, the cattle don't appear to be too frightened but still don't like him landing on them and when he flies around he makes no noise. Im going to keep a close eye on cattle over the next few days to try catch one.