TDF Boring?

spoke2cun

Is the tour getting very boring and predictable to anyone else? Are sky dominating too much or are the other riders happy enough to hold onto their top ten positions or both? In my opinion, leaving it to the alps to 'attack' sky has been a mistake. It's too late and they're all getting tired at this stage. The main contenders should've been a lot closer to froome after the Pyrenees and then attack him constantly in the alps. It's boring to be honest. I think the shorter stage races are more exciting.

lennymc

if you look at the tour as 21 individual races it's been great racing.

spoke2cun

Good point. But l find it hard to look at the TDF in that way to be honest.

Idleater

spoke2cun wrote: »

Good point. But l find it hard to look at the TDF in that way to be honest.

Every time I hear about horse racing or golf on the radio I go that is a terrible sport, no one wins all the time, you'd be as well picking a winner using a dartboard.

Any grand tour is like that, to win the whole thing is a difficult task, but there is interesting daily events. You are effectively compressing a season of races into one event lasting 3 weeks, but considered on the whole, one race.

loudymacloud

I was thinking the same thing, it does look like the other riders are happy to keep the status quo, or is it a case that they just dont have a strong enough team to inflict any damage on sky.

triggermortis

I think Sky, and Froome in particular, are too strong for everyone else this year. He has responded to every attack the last week and hasn't looked in trouble at all

Daroxtar

No, its not boring, but La Vuelta will be more exciting.

lennymc

froome looked vulnerable yesterday coming up towards the top of the last climb - his position in the group of leades (2nd last in a bunch of 7 riders), his gap to the wheel in front (about 2 bike lengths) - he looked fatigued, and I think today will see some fireworks. It's so exciting.

ZiabR

lennymc wrote: »

froome looked vulnerable yesterday coming up towards the top of the last climb - his position in the group of leades (2nd last in a bunch of 7 riders), his gap to the wheel in front (about 2 bike lengths) - he looked fatigued, and I think today will see some fireworks. It's so exciting.

Yeah he did look a little tired alright, but that's the way he always looks . If yesterdays stage had of been a little bit longer I wonder would he have been dropped.

Icepick

It's not boring if, like me, you don't care about the yellow jersey.

D9Male

I don't think it has been as good as your average Grand Tours, even looking at it as individual stages. Some very weak breaks in the first week. Followed by bog-standard uphill or flat sprints.

irishrover99

Daroxtar wrote: »

No, its not boring, but La Vuelta will be more exciting.

it always is more exciting

Leroy42

3 solid weeks of daily cycling races, all shown live on TV! The best riders in the world, the best teams over some of the most beautiful and challenging routes in the world.

Its like the world cup, but we get it every year. Of course everyday is not the greatest and most exciting. Is every game in the WC a classic?

We can't have it both ways. We can't demand a cleaner sport and then complain that the guys don't attack enough.

Anybody who has ever done big cycling events like Ras, or even sportives, will tell you how hard they are and how much they take out of you (I know Ras/sportives are different levels but of course the riders are at different levels).

Look at Sam Bennett, basically saying that everyday was a survival mode.

Contador has attacked lots of times, same for Valverde & Quintana and Nibali. Froome is just too strong and able to close anything down.

laraghrider

Well you have to take the tour into context of what it is. The tour is the biggest race of the season and as such there is too much at stake for sponsors, media exposure etc... It's all too controlled and tightly closed off these days. It's not boring just way more tactical and like I said, controlled. Now compare it to the Giro (my personal fav) or Vuelta where neither of those race organizers are afraid to do something batsh!t crazy (giro TTT on a bike lane or vuelta with it's 41 mountain top finishes). Also as races they tend to be more chaotic, fancy free, lose, rough around the edges and the result we get is more on the rivet racing each and every day.

So in short the TDF isn't boring, its just extremely controlled where as the other two are the cycling equivalent of bohemianism.

Lusk_Doyle

lennymc wrote: »

if you look at the tour as 21 individual races it's been great racing.

Except it's not.

Lusk_Doyle

Leroy42 wrote: »

3 solid weeks of daily cycling races, all shown live on TV! The best riders in the world, the best teams over some of the most beautiful and challenging routes in the world.

Its like the world cup, but we get it every year. Of course everyday is not the greatest and most exciting. Is every game in the WC a classic?

We can't have it both ways. We can't demand a cleaner sport and then complain that the guys don't attack enough.

Anybody who has ever done big cycling events like Ras, or even sportives, will tell you how hard they are and how much they take out of you (I know Ras/sportives are different levels but of course the riders are at different levels).

Look at Sam Bennett, basically saying that everyday was a survival mode.

Contador has attacked lots of times, same for Valverde & Quintana and Nibali. Froome is just too strong and able to close anything down.

Quintana has attacked loads of times? Twice I'd say.

lennymc

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Except it's not.

it's 21 races within a race.

LeoD

The Tour de France is the most over-hyped, under whelming & non-eventful race on the UCI calendar. Race tactics are no longer necessary - simply get your super team to ride at the front and by process of elimination you'll win. How many Tours in the last 15-20 years have been won by a rider outside the main 1-2 favourites going into the race? 3 weeks and 4,000km to decide which one of 2-3 riders is stronger? Yawn. Reduce teams to 5 riders, remove speedos/power metres and radios and we might see some madness return but the race is too lucrative to all involved be left to chance so that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. Bring on the Spring!

nthside_cycle

spoke2cun wrote: »

Is the tour getting very boring and predictable to anyone else? Are sky dominating too much or are the other riders happy enough to hold onto their top ten positions or both? In my opinion, leaving it to the alps to 'attack' sky has been a mistake. It's too late and they're all getting tired at this stage. The main contenders should've been a lot closer to froome after the Pyrenees and then attack him constantly in the alps. It's boring to be honest. I think the shorter stage races are more exciting.

Yes it has got a little boring. Froome in yellow from the first week and nobody really challenging him.
But races for the stage wins in the mountains are interesting.

ted1

With Team Orders, how is betting even allowed? riders go out there with the intention of not winning. reading Nico Roches diary (Jesus that sounds like i'm a stalker) it gives a great insight into the workings of the tour and the teams.

smurphy29

Froome has been pretty dominant and the fight for yellow feels like it ended on stage 10. But there haven't been many Grand Tours that have been all that different in recent years. For all the talk of the Giro and Vuelta being more chaotic races, Contrador won both of them by a comfortable enough margin in the last 12 months, while Nibali was as dominant in last year's Tour as Froome is in this. Quintana dominated the Giro last year too.

The last Grand Tours that provided a nailbiting finish that I can think of off the top of my head are Cadel Evans taking the Tour from Andy Schleck on the time trial, and more recently, Chris Horner winning the Vuelta, what ever you made of that particular result.

Trojan

I think Froome was just starting to show signs of suffering yesterday. I was hoping to see another few attacks. (edit: rest removed, I'm mixing up stages).

But yeah, it has been a bit predictable because of Sky's dominance. I think the attrition rate hasn't helped the challengers, it's been a tough tour from that point of view. Anyone got stats on DNFs this year vs previous years?

happytramp

As someone said above, It's become so tightly controlled that the GC was decided by a single stinging attack on the first mountain stage.

LeoD

nthside_cycle wrote: »

Froome in yellow from the first week and nobody really challenging him.

I don't think they're not challenging him - they just can't. Racing up the Glandon/Tourmalet doesn't require much in the way of tactics. It's 'simply' a question of strength and Froome is the strongest rider and that's that.

chanelfreak

As a non-cycling enthusiast, I think it is really exciting and a great way to introduce newbies to the sport. My husband was on at me to watch it for years and like someone else said, I was like eh no are you mad, its going to be like golf or snooker ie boring a feck.
However, I broke my elbow last year and was on house arrest and there was literally nothing else on during the day, so I was almost instantly converted. I was actually looking forward to it this year and I've watched the highlights every day and read Nico Roches diary in the Indo. I'd say that maybe for lads/ladies who are mad into their cycling, it might not be that interesting but for a newbie like me, I think it is really brilliant to watch.

D9Male

Leroy42 wrote: »

3 solid weeks of daily cycling races, all shown live on TV! The best riders in the world, the best teams over some of the most beautiful and challenging routes in the world.

Its like the world cup, but we get it every year. Of course everyday is not the greatest and most exciting. Is every game in the WC a classic?

We can't have it both ways. We can't demand a cleaner sport and then complain that the guys don't attack enough.

Anybody who has ever done big cycling events like Ras, or even sportives, will tell you how hard they are and how much they take out of you (I know Ras/sportives are different levels but of course the riders are at different levels).

Look at Sam Bennett, basically saying that everyday was a survival mode.

Contador has attacked lots of times, same for Valverde & Quintana and Nibali. Froome is just too strong and able to close anything down.

You clearly love cycling and Grand Tours, Leroy. But saying just because it is on every day it must be good doesn't wash with me. Yes, it is better than watching Live at 3, but compared to other Grand Tours, compared to other Tour de France editions recently, it has left me cold.

2014 Tour was very good. Yorkshire stages were great, particularly stage 2. Cobbled stage was one of the best 3 hours of entertainment I have seen in a Grand Tour. Loved it. Kadri won a very exciting stage. Martin and Rogers attacked from strong breaks to win heroically. Majka was very good in the mountains. Good podium battle, great white battle, good polka dot battle. One-sided GC battles, and losing Froome and Contador damaged it, but it was a good Tour.

2013 Tour was better than 2015 too. Corsica was a little disappointing, but I liked the stage to Albi where Cannondale smashed it up. Froome's demolitions on Ax3 and Ventoux. The echelons stage, the emergence of Quintana in week 3. Dan Martin's win, Rui Costa's wins.

2012 Tour was an abomination.

2011 Tour was very, very memorable. The Pyrenees were not great, but saved by Voeckler in yellow for so long. The stages into Galibier and l'Alpe d'Huez were for the ages.

2010 Tour was also very memorable. Close GC battle. Contador and Shleck in yellow and white attacking each other doing track stands. Chaingate. A very nice cobbled stage with some real time gaps. Chavanel's two solo wins. Lance Armstrong getting absolutely stuffed Vinokourov beating the sprint trains in a transition stage.

So people can say what do you expect. So I would say this Tour is better than just one Tour this decade so far. 2009 or 2008 were not great. But 2006 and 2007 would hammer them.

So it is definitely sub-standard in my view.

odyssey06

The TDF is a 'league'. Leagues are generally better at sorting out the 'best' rather than the 'lucky'.
Is a league as "dramatic" say as a knockout World Cup or Champions League group stage?
No, but it's a different kind of exciting... just as in the Premier League there are multiple races (for the title, for champions league places, to avoid relegation, just to win...) it's the same in the TDF (yellow jersey, podium, stage wins, top 10 finish, green\white\KOM jersey etc).

You are going to get more fireworks in a knockout environment \ shorter races where people feel they don't have to leave anything in the tank for the next day and it's all or nothing now.

Even compare World Cup games... the 1st games tend to be cagey, the 3rd games tend to be frenzied.

Inquitus

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Quintana has attacked loads of times? Twice I'd say.

For a total of about 10 seconds, is going hard for 5 secs and then turning round looking at your gap and then dropping back actually attacking?

Leroy42

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Quintana has attacked loads of times? Twice I'd say.

SO out of the whole post thats the point you picked up on. Has Contador attacked, Nibali, Valverde? Yes, many times.

Have the attacks worked, well clearly not but that is a whole different discussion.

check_six

smurphy29 wrote: »

The last Grand Tours that provided a nailbiting finish that I can think of off the top of my head are Cadel Evans taking the Tour from Andy Schleck on the time trial, and more recently, Chris Horner winning the Vuelta, what ever you made of that particular result.

Uggh, Chris Horner! That fellow ruined that tour. Horrible throwback stuff.

I think the racing so far this year in the TdF has promised so much each day, and then it looks like something is gong to happen, then something starts happening, and then Sky bring it all back together again. So it's unfair to say it's not exciting per se.

As the stage rolls along it's exciting, afterwards when the results roll in you may say "well I could predict that that was going to happen!", but mid-stage I don't think it has looked quite so clear-cut. I suppose it's the deflation in the last 5-10km of a few stages that the early promise is not going to be fulfilled that has been a bit disappointing.

I'm still hopeful that *something* will happen yet. So that makes it exciting for me at least!

D9Male

Leroy42 wrote: »

SO out of the whole post thats the point you picked up on. Has Contador attacked, Nibali, Valverde? Yes, many times.

Have the attacks worked, well clearly not but that is a whole different discussion.

It may be a different discussion, but it is the reason some of us find the Tour duller than usual. Like it or not, the cameras are on the GC group most of the time. And nothing of interest is happening.

Leroy42

@D9Male, I don't love the grand tours any more than I love cycling in general. What I love about the grand tours is the fact that it is so accessible. They are the riders dairies, repeats etc etc. That all the top guys are there and ready for action.

And all Spring classics aren't exaclty all that all the time. We had a few races where basically everybody waited until Cancellara would simply ride off, How is that any better than what Froome is doing. In many of the classics it appears (I know how much work is being done but from the TV pictures) that they simply cycle around for a few hours then the last 50/20/10k a few breaks happen and that is it.

Is this the best TdF ever? No, but then I only remember back to Indurain days and they were hardly exciting. Followed by LA years, so while I found them interesting to watch, as we all know it was a sham. So now we have this. Pantani always attacked and never gave up, yes well we all know how it managed to sustain that.

Honestly, I'm disappointed in Quintana, don't think he has given everything.

Leroy42

D9Male wrote: »

It may be a different discussion, but it is the reason some of us find the Tour duller than usual. Like it or not, the cameras are on the GC group most of the time. And nothing of interest is happening.

But what do you expect them to do. We have all seen Froomes numbers (or the Sky version anyway) and based on that he is basically on the upper limits of the performance charts. It is simply not possible to dance away from him.

Doesn't matter how many riders Movistar of Tinkoff put at the front, Froome is capable of covering pretty much any attack, and has the confidence to let people like Contador go knowing he will get him back later.

Edit: alhough having said all that I can see where the boring comes into it!

Decuc500

The last two alpine stages have had easy finishes so no real attacking from the GC contenders. Today and tomorrow should be different. It's not exciting when a tough stage finishes on a cat 2 climb or descent. Sky can control that all day.

darkvalley

I don't think it has been a boring tour. The first week provided plenty of entertainment, something different everyday and preferable to the normal snooze fest that are long flat stages with little happening until the last 10-15km as we build up to the sprint.
The mountain stages have perhaps been a bit of a let down, although for me this has as much to do with expectations before the tour. With 4 major tour winners going head to head, I was expecting a much tighter race and a good battle. But other than Froome, the other 3 have been below par, particularly Nibali and Contador, and therefore we are not getting the racing I was expecting. But still 2 days for Quintana to light it up!
But the great thing about stage racing is the many stories played out that are not about winning the race. Sam Bennet's efforts to stay in the race, Geschke's first win as a professional at the age of 29, MTN Quebeke's success. Not to mention the annual great french white hope disaster.
Lots to see here!

Koobcam

Personally, I think cycling can be an incredibly boring sport to watch at times-if you think about it, in your typical race, nothing happens for a large portion of the time. That said, i still enjoy watching it. Sometimes, I'd have the cycling on and it's kind of like soothing background music as I do something else, with half an eye or ear on the TV. Cycling is definitely a sport I'd rather do myself rather than watch other people doing it.

As for this years tour, i reckon it's been great. People seem to want the GC boys to be flying up mountains, making attacks every few minutes as if they were impervious to the physical demands of the sport. We've seen plenty of this kind of racing in the past, and it generally requires a shaded team bus, coat hangers, a bag or two of blood, lots of needles, HGH, EPO, etc etc. So basically, if you want that kind of racing, then you also need to either watch the Dauphine or accept hard core doping. A three week tour makes huge demands on the human body and by the end, the riders are absolutely knackered. Eve Froome was looking pretty ragged yesterday and don't forget that he cracked on the final stage in 2013. he only has a 3-minute lead this time, so it's by no means a done deal yet. But Quintana is not a robot either so whether he has enough left in the tank to take the time he needs, who knows.

SuperSean

You need to get a Velogames team on the go

This is the first year I've done a fantasy team and its been very exciting during/after every stage!!

Koobcam

SuperSean wrote: »

You need to get a Velogames team on the go

This is the first year I've done a fantasy team and its been very exciting during/after every stage!!

Yeah, my first year doing it as well. great craic. Also gives you a real stake in what is happening on the stage. I have Bardet in my team, so I was well happy with the stage yesterday-stage win, top 10 on GC, joint leader in the KoM, first over the HC climb, bonus points for being in the breakaway. Goes some way to making up for the loss of VanGarderen (also in my team) the day before. Wish I'd picked Sagan though...

el tel

I'll take a "boring" win by Froome over the superhuman and comedy in hindsight acts of fireworks that we saw in the mid 90s - late 00s.

diomed

el tel wrote: »

I'll take a "boring" win by Froome over the superhuman and comedy in hindsight acts of fireworks that we saw in the mid 90s - late 00s.

Yes, the playing field is 100% level now.

Roquentin

Leroy42 wrote: »

@D9Male, I don't love the grand tours any more than I love cycling in general. What I love about the grand tours is the fact that it is so accessible. They are the riders dairies, repeats etc etc. That all the top guys are there and ready for action.

And all Spring classics aren't exaclty all that all the time. We had a few races where basically everybody waited until Cancellara would simply ride off, How is that any better than what Froome is doing. In many of the classics it appears (I know how much work is being done but from the TV pictures) that they simply cycle around for a few hours then the last 50/20/10k a few breaks happen and that is it.

Is this the best TdF ever? No, but then I only remember back to Indurain days and they were hardly exciting. Followed by LA years, so while I found them interesting to watch, as we all know it was a sham. So now we have this. Pantani always attacked and never gave up, yes well we all know how it managed to sustain that.

Honestly, I'm disappointed in Quintana, don't think he has given everything.

ah yea pantani brought it to life.

Roquentin

still love watching it. maybe i expected too much this year. i thought contador and quintana would be closer to froome than it is. still though, i never miss the mountain stages.

watching sagan trying to be the bride for once is good as well.

drogdub

I think the overall GC race hasn't been too exciting but the stages themselves as individual races have mostly been really good, particularly the first week but as March and April is my favourite period in the season I would probably think that anyway.

Also, the racing has been a good distraction from the bull**it being raised by the mainstream media, particularly the likes of Ger Gilroy pretending to know something about the sport.

Harrybelafonte

The TdF has been boring since 1989. La Vuelta is the new Tour.

Brian?

LeoD wrote: »

The Tour de France is the most over-hyped, under whelming & non-eventful race on the UCI calendar. Race tactics are no longer necessary - simply get your super team to ride at the front and by process of elimination you'll win. How many Tours in the last 15-20 years have been won by a rider outside the main 1-2 favourites going into the race? 3 weeks and 4,000km to decide which one of 2-3 riders is stronger? Yawn. Reduce teams to 5 riders, remove speedos/power metres and radios and we might see some madness return but the race is too lucrative to all involved be left to chance so that's unlikely to happen anytime soon. Bring on the Spring!

What about the Giro Lombardia? My favourite classic, last chance saloon for glory.

Brian?

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

The TdF has been boring since 1989. La Vuelta is the new Tour.

That's a bit unfair. The Indurain and Armstrong years were boring. The Riis, Ullrich, Sastre and Contador wins were all very exciting tours at the time. The tour Landis "won" was a great tour, until the aftermath.


This years tour has been nowhere near as bad as 12,13 and 14.

nthside_cycle

LeoD wrote: »

I don't think they're not challenging him - they just can't. Racing up the Glandon/Tourmalet doesn't require much in the way of tactics. It's 'simply' a question of strength and Froome is the strongest rider and that's that.

Well I think the last two Alpine stages shown what can happen when Quintana attacked. I don't think Froome was the strongest rider but was the best and didn't loose time like Quintana. You could say Quintana lost the Tour de France after the 2nd stage.

But the last two Alpine stages were great to watch and it was enjoyable seeing some form from Nibali.

odyssey06

People wondering why Quintana didn't attack earlier need to remember Sky and Geraint Thomas in particular only faded in the Alps and prior to that wouldn't have *let* Quintana get away ... And Sky could afford to keep Poels 'fresh' for the Alps and he gave Froome a lot of support there in the final 2 Alpine stages.

Froome was the strongest all round rider in the TDF. It's not a purely climbing competition, otherwise we'd just have 2 weeks in the Pyrenees and Alps, no time trials (team or individuals), no cobbles etc

Brian?

The stage up the Alpe this year is the best example I've seen of why race radio should be banned. Froome sat and rode tempo with constant time checks in his ear. He simply rode to his power meter without a care, he knew it was in the bag.

No race radio and he may well have panicked and gone into the red or caught Quintana and won the stage. It would have been more exciting though.

Leroy42

^ I agree, for all the excitement it was never really in any doubt. Froome had 2 helpers with him for most of the climb so he was pretty 'comfortable'.

smurphy29

Race radio is a red herring there. The thing that saved Froome was having his two domestiques pace him up, they did an incredible job for him. Without race radio he would be getting time gaps from the moto marshals anyway.