Tips for tackling Steep Hills

LpPepper

Any tips on cycling up steep hills? For example Wicklow mountains/Gap. I can tackle steep hills for only so long before my legs just give out!

Setup is 50/34 on the front and 11-28 on the back, would a 30/32 cog on the rear cassette make it easier or is it just down to practice?

Luxman

LpPepper wrote: »

Any tips on cycling up steep hills? For example Wicklow mountains/Gap. I can tackle steep hills for only so long before my legs just give out!

Setup is 50/34 on the front and 11-28 on the back, would a 30/32 cog on the rear cassette make it easier or is it just down to practice?

Lose some weight and pedal like f**k😜

bigroad

Hang on to a passing car if possibile.

Eat less and practice more.

Hill climbing intervals are good too.

Jim Stynes

I like climbing though I am not great at it. I am too heavy, currently 90kg. Ive lost 5kg from the start of the year and the difference the weight makes is unbelievable. I plan on getting down to 82kg over the next year or so. I do all the correct training but my diet is crap!

50-34 11-32 would also make life a little easier.

Leroy42

What sort of tips are you looking for. Unlike say, computer games, there is no 'cheat' mode (well LA has one but that been covered...)

In general, it is better to spin a low gear and stay seated. However, it really is an individual thing. Some people prefer to climb out of the saddle, which whilst less effecient, works best for them.

Try to carry as much speed as you can into the hill, and get you gearing sorted before hitting the start. Nothing worse than being stuck in too high a gear and struggling to turn the pedals.

Try different types of climbing to see what works best for you. Are you a spinner, slow cadence, in or out of the saddle. Maybe you spend most of the time in the saddle but a brief dance on the pedals to keep the momentum. Trial and error is the only way to figure this out.

One of the biggest things in climbing well is to accept that its going to hurt. There is no way around it. If you want to get to the top fast (whatever fast means to you) its going to involve some effort.

Your gearing is plenty enough to climb pretty much any climb in Wicklow. There comes a point that lower gears simply makes it easier but also slower.

Try to find some others to cycle with that are better climbers, not way better but close enough that on a really good day you could keep with them. Do you best to match them each time for as long as you can.

One way to take the 'fear' out of climbs is to take it very easy on the 1st part and only push on the last section. Each time you tackle the hill lenghten the distance of the last section

rp

Leroy42 wrote: »

What sort of tips are you looking for. Unlike say, computer games, there is no 'cheat' mode

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/i-cheated-on-strava-and-got-a-really-amazing-kom-183565

jon1981

if the leg muscle is just tiring and giving out before cardio then you're pushing too high a gear and expending the muscle power... try a lower gear and spin faster , this will push the cardio system harder. As mentioned it takes more training. I used to climb in high gears and my muscle would get really tired so now I go into a lower gear but I spin faster and actually my times are far better. I don't know if it's my physiology or whatever but I find spinning up hills suits me more than mashing the pedals in a high gear, also helps my knees.

When you max out , are you in the lowest gear you have?

YeahOK

Depends on the hill...

Short sharp hill - I find attacking the hill works best. I try to have a bit of speed built up when I hit the bottom and then keep her lit for as long as possible until I need to drop down the gears and then settle into a rhythm.

Long hill - find the gear that I can turn comfortably, without getting the breathing into too much bother and settle into a rhythm. I'll typically only get out of the saddle for the sharper inclines, but if I do I'll go up a gear to maximise the effort, before settling back into my rhythm and dropping back down a gear.

There's no magic formula. The only way you get better at hills is to do hills. Reps are good for this. Losing weight helps.....

I still hate hills that go up, but I love the ones that go down....:)

PukkaStukka

I found climbing hills much easier after a bike fit as changes were made to saddle position and height. I felt it made for a better weight distribution and more efficient cadence. Other things to looks at are lighten the bike and yourself, and pacing yourself.

man_no_plan

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I found climbing hills much easier after a bike fit as changes were made to saddle position and height. I felt it made for a better weight distribution and more efficient cadence. Other things to looks at are lighten the bike and yourself, and pacing yourself.

Its cheaper to lighten your arse than the bike

MugMugs

man_no_plan wrote: »

Its cheaper to lighten your arse than the bike

You seen the price of fresh veg compared to McDonalds?

NeedMoreGears

A lot depends on the hill. On a longer hill like Wicklow gap, I'll start at what feels an easy pace and try maintain that to the top. Something short and I'll just tear into it. I use a thirty on the back and spin, others find it easier to grind up in a smaller cog. As suggested above, try out a few different options and see what is best for you. Hill repeats always help no matter what your preferred way of climbing

secman

I did the wicklow 200 on a front ring set up of 52/42 with a straight 12 to 19 8 speed block. Climbed mostly on 42 18 and saved the 19 for the tough ones. Was off the bike for 10 years and 3 stone. Now have a 12 to 25.. 8 speed block on the same bike
.. a big pussy cat now.... hope to never have a granny ring ..!

Practice ,practice... and build up the reistence don't spin frantically!

Deagol

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I found climbing hills much easier after a bike fit as changes were made to saddle position and height. I felt it made for a better weight distribution and more efficient cadence. Other things to looks at are lighten the bike and yourself, and pacing yourself.

Would 100% agree and recommend. I spent €50 on a laser fitting at Topbike after 3 years back on the bike and I'm raging I didn't do it 3 years ago

My times on a regular climb went from a PR of 26mins to 23 mins immediately.

Sarz91

secman wrote: »

I did the wicklow 200 on a front ring set up of 52/42 with a straight 12 to 19 8 speed block. Climbed mostly on 42 18 and saved the 19 for the tough ones. Was off the bike for 10 years and 3 stone. Now have a 12 to 25.. 8 speed block on the same bike
.. a big pussy cat now.... hope to never have a granny ring ..!

Practice ,practice... and build up the reistence don't spin frantically!

Jaysus. I'd consider myself a decent climber but I don't think I'd ever tackle anything with that sort of gearing. Two ACL replacements and grinding don't go too well together. I agree with the practice sentiment but spinning and grinding is personal preference. At this level it's whatever you find comfortable.

LpPepper

jon1981 wrote: »

if the leg muscle is just tiring and giving out before cardio then you're pushing too high a gear and expending the muscle power... try a lower gear and spin faster , this will push the cardio system harder. As mentioned it takes more training. I used to climb in high gears and my muscle would get really tired so now I go into a lower gear but I spin faster and actually my times are far better. I don't know if it's my physiology or whatever but I find spinning up hills suits me more than mashing the pedals in a high gear, also helps my knees.

When you max out , are you in the lowest gear you have?

Today for example I tried tackling the hills heading towards the hell fire club from firhouse. I was in my lowest gear (34/28) for most of it and if I got out of the saddle I went up a gear (only towards the top). Average speed was around 11-12 km/h and I felt if I went any slower it would become too grinding to push harder. I suppose some continuous practice would help!

NeedMoreGears

11-12kph with 34/28 around 75rpm which is pretty good. You've a bit to go befor falling off territory. My personal worst is 5kph with similar gearing - that's when the zig zagging starts!

nordicb

The mind attempts to give up long before legs do, get angry, motivated, stay on the bike whatever it takes. Find something that sets the mind to win. Imagine running away from a huge angry dog. Rather than hating, respect and love the hill, it's either you or the hill that wins. We are so lucky to have hills!

magicbastarder

best advice i could give for tackling steep hills is to cycle *down* them.

Koobcam

Another thing to add to the advice here is to know the length and max altitude of the climb. I find it really helpful to know exactly how long the climb will be and what the altitude is at the top. If you know the climb in this way, I think it's easier to manage your efforts. Knowing where it gets steep, where there is a respite etc also helps. A climb like Kilmashogue lane for example is super hard. If you don't know the climb, it might seem impossible to get past that really steep bit at the car park in the forest, but if you know the climb, you'll know that it levels out just past the car park, knowledge which might make it easier for you to push through for a little longer.

Bloggsie

I was told a cracking bit of advice for climbing, start like an old man, finish like a young man.
Dont go at it like a headless chicken & burn out before the top, if you feel strong enough as you approach the top, give it some welly, the feeling of beating the backstard of a hill that has been a nemesis is a sweet one.

Shep_Dog

For short hills, less than 500m, hill repeats and sprinting ability get you over them. For longer ones like Wicklow Gap you need rythym and correct gear choice. that hill varies in difficulty as you go up and you need to change gear to adapt.

Get a cadence sesnor, and aim for, say 70rpm. Change gear until you can ride comfortablly at 70. it's just a number but it may suit many people.

Sarz91

I struggled with climbing for a while when I started cycling. I played hurling for years and after an ACL replacement (my first, 24 now with my second) I started cycling but I was useless as soon as the road went up.

Everyone talked to me about "rhythm" and "cadence". To me they meant very little as it didn't matter what they told me to do or what cadence they said I should hold because as soon as the road went upwards all of it went out the window and it became a "just get to the top" type scenario.

The best advice I can give is find a hill that's about 1.5-2km long at about 6-8% gradient and start doing reps. It took me the best part of a month to figure out what suited me best when climbing. For me it was all about trial and error.

With all this being said, it never gets easier. You just get faster.

magicbastarder

i'm running a 53/39 to 13-26 so hills are fun on my bike.

T-Maxx

Some time ago someone posted on here about using cadence and heart rate as a tool to become a better cyclist. I found that finding the sweet spot and then maintaining it, especially on climbs, to work for me.

smacl

LpPepper wrote: »

Any tips on cycling up steep hills? For example Wicklow mountains/Gap. I can tackle steep hills for only so long before my legs just give out!

Setup is 50/34 on the front and 11-28 on the back, would a 30/32 cog on the rear cassette make it easier or is it just down to practice?

Crap climber myself, but I find the best way to tackle steep climbs is to tackle steeper climbs to make the simply steep straightforward. In Wicklow, do Kilmashogue, Glassamucky, the wall, and Kippure, and they'll make the Sally and Wicklow gaps feel like a piece of píss. I'm also a big fan of low gears, and keeping one in reserve for when the eyes are popping out. If you don't make it to the top of the hill, stop, catch your breath, and make it a few feet further next time.

rollingscone

Be Alek.

funnights74

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

A lot depends on the hill. On a longer hill like Wicklow gap, I'll start at what feels an easy pace and try maintain that to the top. Something short and I'll just tear into it. I use a thirty on the back and spin, others find it easier to grind up in a smaller cog. As suggested above, try out a few different options and see what is best for you. Hill repeats always help no matter what your preferred way of climbing

I grind up on a 30 cog, I'm lucky I'm only 63 kgs so I take it steady. I pace myself on the long drags and just suffer on the steep hills. Cycling wasn't meant to be easy or there would be no cars on the road.

Brian?

funnights74 wrote: »

I grind up on a 30 cog, I'm lucky I'm only 63 kgs so I take it steady. I pace myself on the long drags and just suffer on the steep hills. Cycling wasn't meant to be easy or there would be no cars on the road.

63kg and you use a 30 to grind up? That doesn't sound right.

Brian?

My advice is to dance on the pedals. Stand as much as possible.

I like to pretend I'm Contador on a good day. Except I'm fat and pale. And usually close to tears on anything over 10%.

funnights74

Brian? wrote: »

63kg and you use a 30 to grind up? That doesn't sound right.

Yeah on anything over 10 %. I did Ballygasheen yesterday which has ramps of 13% And I was barely moving:(. Slightly asthmatic has an effect I suppose.

Alek

Be Alek.

Ah c'mon Be TripleMinor, I'd say. Or Ryan S. Or....

cython

Brian? wrote: »

My advice is to dance on the pedals. Stand as much as possible.

I like to pretend I'm Contador on a good day. Except I'm fat and pale. And usually close to tears on anything over 10%.

This is probably the most inefficient way of climbing though, as you are having to expend energy on a lot more upper body muscles, to stabilise yourself and your bike. Seeing as you use Contador as an example, even the pros tend to only get out of the saddle when necessary (acceleration to attack, ramp in gradient, etc.), or for the sake of brief variation. In the same way as none of them went up Alpe D'Huez yesterday out of the saddle all the time, most mere mortals will not do a long Irish climb out of the saddle all the way, and I typically find myself having to recover more after the out of saddle effort than if I had stayed in, so it may catch you out mid climb too.

funnights74

Kelly almost always climbed seated, he claimed it's the most efficient way. The elite like Contador, pantani(substances aside) and the likes are from a different planet so there's no point in copying them.
I know when i stand and catch a glimpse of my hr reading it has shot up so a huge amount of extra effort/energy is being used. 90% i'm sitting.

Brian?

cython wrote: »

This is probably the most inefficient way of climbing though, as you are having to expend energy on a lot more upper body muscles, to stabilise yourself and your bike. Seeing as you use Contador as an example, even the pros tend to only get out of the saddle when necessary (acceleration to attack, ramp in gradient, etc.), or for the sake of brief variation. In the same way as none of them went up Alpe D'Huez yesterday out of the saddle all the time, most mere mortals will not do a long Irish climb out of the saddle all the way, and I typically find myself having to recover more after the out of saddle effort than if I had stayed in, so it may catch you out mid climb too.

Stand as much as possible. As much as possible is normally a very short amount of time. If you an climb out of the saddle for entire climbs you don't need my advice.

It's not inefficient. It's different, it engages the hamstrings and takes pressure off the quads. Which is very good for knee health because cycling is so quad dominant. The key is to not use the standing time as a sprint but to maintain a steady pace, I suspect that's why you need to recover.

As much as possible for me is about 2 minutes solid, then back to sitting with slightly recovered quads. For climbs that have ramps of +10% it works very very well. Stand through the ramps and sit back and spin the easier parts. All of the best climbers do this, except Froome. Froome is a strange one though.

I was clearly joking about the Contador part.

cython

Brian? wrote: »

Stand as much as possible. As much as possible is normally a very short amount of time. If you an climb out of the saddle for entire climbs you don't need my advice.

It's not inefficient. It's different, it engages the hamstrings and takes pressure off the quads. Which is very good for knee health because cycling is so quad dominant. The key is to not use the standing time as a sprint but to maintain a steady pace, I suspect that's why you need to recover.

As much as possible for me is about 2 minutes solid, then back to sitting with slightly recovered quads. For climbs that have ramps of +10% it works very very well. Stand through the ramps and sit back and spin the easier parts. All of the best climbers do this, except Froome. Froome is a strange one though.

I was clearly joking about the Contador part.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the bolded - based on my own experience, and that posted by others here about HR, a cyclist will typically expend more energy climbing out of the saddle than seated, and rarely with an improvement in speed, simply due to having to stabilise and support more weight. Admittedly it can help when the gradient ramps, as you mentioned, as it gets you driving your weight down on the pedals, but that's more a case of doing it as needed rather than as much as you can, and if you are standing as much as possible, you may exhaust that when you hit those ramps if you don't know the climb.

In terms of using the out of saddle effort as a sprint, I don't do this, and when I've wanted to I've climbed the hill in Newtown standing (and needed a high gear to keep the resistance high enough that I wasn't expending excessive energy in stabilising the bike), but I haven't been any faster doing it!

I get what you are saying about the ramps and standing, I really do, and I have had to do it in the past, but I still advocate that telling someone to stand as much as possible if they struggle on hills is bad advice - don't be afraid to get out of the saddle would be better, IMHO.

fed up sick and tired

My thoughts...

1. Decide that you're going to enjoy the feeling of having conquered the hill or hills. The hurt is only a means to an end.

2. Alternate between a) hoods, b) hands on bars about a thumb's length from the stem, and c) standing, which I do very little. Both a) and b) utilise different muscles so you're giving them a break alternately. Standing I find gives my lower back a break, and gets over the steepest bits more easily.

3. Start the hill much more slowly than feels 'right'. I struggled with this for a while. If you want to push hard, make it the final third, not the first third or you'll be sorry !

4. Do not grip the bars fiercely, there's no need and you're only wasting energy. Try to remove all upper-body tension, even from your facial muscles !

5. Try to synch cadence to breathing, in whatever way feels good to you. Breathe every second pedal stroke, every fourth or whatever.

6. Trying to change to an easier gear when you're already grinding is terrible for the drivetrain and can stall you. If you have no choice, then it's better if possible to spin up as fast as you can until you make the change. Not easy.

7. I personally like to focus on a point up the road ahead. I look at it constantly and see it coming to me, and I know I'm going to get the better of it.

8. Someone gave great advice earlier about knowing the gradient etc.

9. Get a bike fit. I got it done and it was really great value for money.

10. Try to avoid drinking or eating while you're in the middle of grunting your way to the top !

Brian?

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

My thoughts...

1. Decide that you're going to enjoy the feeling of having conquered the hill or hills. The hurt is only a means to an end.

2. Alternate between a) hoods, b) hands on bars about a thumb's length from the stem, and c) standing, which I do very little. Both a) and b) utilise different muscles so you're giving them a break alternately. Standing I find gives my lower back a break, and gets over the steepest bits more easily.

3. Start the hill much more slowly than feels 'right'. I struggled with this for a while. If you want to push hard, make it the final third, not the first third or you'll be sorry !

4. Do not grip the bars fiercely, there's no need and you're only wasting energy. Try to remove all upper-body tension, even from your facial muscles !

5. Try to synch cadence to breathing, in whatever way feels good to you. Breathe every second pedal stroke, every fourth or whatever.

6. Trying to change to an easier gear when you're already grinding is terrible for the drivetrain and can stall you. If you have no choice, then it's better if possible to spin up as fast as you can until you make the change. Not easy.

7. I personally like to focus on a point up the road ahead. I look at it constantly and see it coming to me, and I know I'm going to get the better of it.

8. Someone gave great advice earlier about knowing the gradient etc.

9. Get a bike fit. I got it done and it was really great value for money.

10. Try to avoid drinking or eating while you're in the middle of grunting your way to the top !

That's all great advice for a long drag of a climb.

My previous advice for really steep hills, with ramps over 10%. Maybe I'm answering a question that wasn't asked. The Wicklow gap isn't particularly steep, the difficulty is the length.

LpPepper

Cheers for the advice everyone, much appreciated! Some very knowledgeable people on here. Thanks

fed up sick and tired

Brian? wrote: »

That's all great advice for a long drag of a climb.

My previous advice for really steep hills, with ramps over 10%. Maybe I'm answering a question that wasn't asked. The Wicklow gap isn't particularly steep, the difficulty is the length.

It's myself that is answering the unasked question. My fault for not reading the thread title properly.

marty_crane

Don't look at the top if at all possible. Instead, pick a point in the near distance and focus on that. When you get there pick another.

Tell yourself you'll do 20 more seconds. Look up and realise how far that took you. Then decide to just another 20 seconds.

Sit yourself slightly forward on your saddle. Don't know if this works for everyone but I find the weight transference a help.

Don't EVER wear a polka dot KOM jersey on a climb until you know you can do it:D

padyjoe

I wonder what's the story with the gearing ratios? Is the any rule x ratio is good up to y gradient? Or you just simply use what you've got.

Cee-Jay-Cee

padyjoe wrote: »

I wonder what's the story with the gearing ratios? Is the any rule x ratio is good up to y gradient? Or you just simply use what you've got.

There is no rule. Stronger riders may use smaller gears, lighter riders may use bigger gears, bike weight, rider weight and fitness, wind, slope etc etc determine the gear used.

Leroy42

There is no rule, it is really down to personal preference/style.

Some people like to spin like mad (Froome) others like to grind it out. The current thinking is that spinning is better as it places more emphasis on the cardio rather than the muscles.

In my view, the default of most people is towards grind, you need to specifically train at higher revs to get used to it.

Of course, when you are out on the bike you are stuck with whatever gears you have. Long gone are the days when compacts etc were looked on as inferior. If compact and 30 cassette suits you then go with it, if standard and 21 then go with that (but start looking into replacement knees!!).

There does come a point when easier gearing really just makes you slower, unless you can raise the revs enough to compensate. Steep hills are hard (well all hills are hard) and there is no gearing that will make it easy. Better gearing choices can make it easier though.

outfox

I have to agree with Brian? above. I've been experimenting lately with the Contador dance, even though I think he has the ugliest cycling style. But it works. Forcing your body to dance on the pedals, rather than just standing up and down, DOES make a big difference on steep ramps. It might be something to do with energy conservation, like kangaroos who recover a lot of energy from each jump when they land and compress.

Unknown Soldier

I'm not great at hills but I try!

I'm now definitely from the school of "start the hill like an old man and finish like a young man" brigade. It's turned me into a would be Goat.

I take hills at my own pace. Pay no attention to anyone else.
I think that's important. On semi steep parts I tend to "churn" rather than grind. 55-65 cadence.

Lots of people have given great advice here so far and the only minor thing that I might add (rightly or wrongly) is that when there is a slight "reprieve" while going up a hill/cliff, use that to go even slower and recover as much as possible.

Thats what I do, and it seems to help me. You'd be surprised how 25m of 4% after a load of 9+% can inject life into the engine.

Enjoy your hills. There is something very satisfying getting to the top, after all the pain

Alek

You'd be surprised how 25m of 4% after a load of 9+% can inject life into the engine.

Last Saturday, Devil's Glen for the first time, no expectations whatsoever: after fighting 16% bastard of a climb, next 8% felt like downhill

marty_crane

outfox wrote: »

I have to agree with Brian? above. I've been experimenting lately with the Contador dance, even though I think he has the ugliest cycling style. But it works.

I thought I was the only eejit experimenting with this. Eitherway I wouldn't have had the neck to post it here. But I agree, it does work

irishrover99

Alek wrote: »

Last Saturday, Devil's Glen for the first time, no expectations whatsoever: after fighting 16% bastard of a climb, next 8% felt like downhill

i've seen it said before that kilmashouge wasn't a good way of training for the W200.
if i do kilmashouge a few times the the rest of the main climbs like shay elliott and slieve mann seem easy compared to it.
its the only climb i use when i'm training for a long day in the mountains and its never failed me.

Alek

This is something I noticed as well: it helps a lot in a psychological sense to have a steeper/longer hill in mind when climbing the current one. In a "phew, I've climbed bigger bastards before" way.