Arctic ice grew by a third

Atlantic Dawn

Looks like the beginning of the new ice age, time to get the carbon emissions increased as quick as we can or we will be finished...

The volume of Arctic sea ice increased by around a third after an unusually cool summer in 2013.



Researchers say the growth continued in 2014 and more than compensated for losses recorded in the three previous years.


The scientists involved believe changes in summer temperatures have greater impacts on ice than thought.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33594654

jimgoose

We're going to need more V8s.

Boom_Bap

jimgoose wrote: »

We're going to need more V8s.

Combined to make W16's

seamus

Weather and global climate are such complicated matters, it's possible that the same effects which cause average temperatures to rise, cause a dip in temperatures near the poles and thus an increase in sheet ice.

Though it is known that the ice is receding, regardless of a single anomalous year.

jimgoose

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Combined to make W16's

Been done, chief:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Volkswagen_W16.jpg/1024px-Volkswagen_W16.jpg

kneemos

seamus wrote: »

Weather and global climate are such complicated matters, it's possible that the same effects which cause average temperatures to rise, cause a dip in temperatures near the poles and thus an increase in sheet ice.

Though it is known that the ice is receding, regardless of a single anomalous year.

Whatever happens it's global warming.

Zillah

This is a bit like a fat person who weighs themselves daily pointing at one day where their weight went down and claiming they are doing well despite the fact that their weekly and monthly trend is up.

Pat Mustard

The end of the article:

"if you get one year of cooler temperatures, we've almost wound the clock back a few years on this gradual decline that's been happening over decades," said Rachel Tilling.

"The long-term trend of the ice volume is downwards and the long-term trend of the temperatures in the Arctic is upwards and this finding doesn't give us any reason to disbelieve that - as far as we can tell it's just one anomalous year."

Atlantic Dawn

kneemos wrote: »

Whatever happens it's global warming.

I think you will find it's now called climate change as the figures they came out with when questioned didn't indicate a constant warming to match their "theories".

kneemos

Zillah wrote: »

This is a bit like a fat person who weighs themselves daily pointing at one day where their weight went down and claiming they are doing well despite the fact that their weekly and monthly trend is up.

I think we're capable of understanding what an anomalous year means.

The Backwards Man

Scientists, the politicians of . . er. .science.

Akrasia

In 2013 the arctic ice grew by a third from a very low base the year before(2012 was the record lowest summer ice extent by a large margin). In 2015 we returned to the declining trend and winter Arctic sea ice extent was the lowest on record
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/2015-arctic-sea-ice-maximum-annual-extent-is-lowest-on-record

Global warming is real. Climate change 'skeptics' will happily post links to stories that show ice volumes up 30% but when the most recent data shows that the winter arctic ice extent had the lowest maxmum on record, they simply ignore it.

A year on year increase/decrease is not a trend, it's a point of data. The arctic ice trends are a steady decline due to our warming global climate.

Akrasia

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I think you will find it's now called climate change as the figures they came out with when questioned didn't indicate a constant warming to match their "theories".

Eh, the IPCC was set up in 1988.

Scientists have been calling this Climate Change for decades.

not yet

kneemos wrote: »

I think we're capable of understanding what an anomalous year means.

That may be so, but do you know what a tracker mortgage is..?

kneemos

not yet wrote: »

That may be so, but do you know what a tracker mortgage is..?

Not without an analogy.

Akrasia

Just one for the we're heading for an ice age brigade

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/21/climate-scientists-say-2015-on-track-to-be-warmest-year-on-record

2015 (this year for those who aren't paying attention) is almost certainly going to be the new record warmest year having set the warmest month record for 4 out of the first 6 months this year

NOAA calculated that the world’s average temperature in June hit 61.48F (16.33C), breaking the old record set last year by 0.22F (0.12C). Usually temperature records are broken by one or two hundredths of a degree, not nearly a quarter of a degree, Blunden said.

The picture is even more dramatic when the half-year statistics are considered.

The average temperature in the first six months of 2015 was 57.83F (14.35C), beating the old record set in 2010 by one-sixth of a degree.

.

Zillah

kneemos wrote: »

I think we're capable of understanding what an anomalous year means.

Maybe you are, but I wouldn't give too much credit generally.

Atlantic Dawn

Akrasia wrote: »

Just one for the we're heading for an ice age brigade

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/21/climate-scientists-say-2015-on-track-to-be-warmest-year-on-record

2015 (this year for those who aren't paying attention) is almost certainly going to be the new record warmest year having set the warmest month record for 4 out of the first 6 months this year
.

Meanwhile Australia has the worst snow in 30 years...


http://www.weather.com/storms/winter/news/queensland-australia-snow-heaviest-30years-july2015

SEPT 23 1989

well the teachers in the 80's did promise us we would be living in another ice age by now

ScumLord

Akrasia wrote: »

Eh, the IPCC was set up in 1988.

Scientists have been calling this Climate Change for decades.

The problem is people getting their science updates through media.

Scientists: Umm, the ice sheet appears to have grown this year.
Daily mail: It's an ice age, we're all doomed!!
Scientists: No that's not what I said, the ice sheet grew this year but over all it's shrinking.
Daily Mail: The suns going to burn our eyes out, we're all doomed!!

Zillah

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem is people getting their science updates through media.

Scientists: Umm, the ice sheet appears to have grown this year.
Daily mail: It's an ice age, we're all doomed!!
Scientists: No that's not what I said, the ice sheet grew this year but over all it's shrinking.
Daily Mail: The suns going to burn our eyes out, we're all doomed!!

The scientist, in a slinky black dress that showed off her slim figure, said the apocalypse is coming.

syklops

Zillah wrote: »

The scientist, in a slinky black dress that showed off her slim figure, said the apocalypse is coming.

Pics or GTFO.

Akrasia

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Meanwhile Australia has the worst snow in 30 years...


http://www.weather.com/storms/winter/news/queensland-australia-snow-heaviest-30years-july2015

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The_Valeyard

Someone watch 'The Day After Tomorrow' and see how they survived it.

TomBtheGoat

Humans, what do we know? Fúck all if you ask me.

Maybe we'll need 10,000 years of scientific measurement & observations, before we'll know with any certainty what is actually going on.

darkpagandeath

We are already in an Ice age........

kneemos

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Someone watch 'The Day After Tomorrow' and see how they survived it.

Saw it yesterday...burn books.

SEPT 23 1989

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Someone watch 'The Day After Tomorrow' and see how they survived it.

book burnings?

Saipanne

TomBtheGoat wrote: »

Humans, what do we know? Fúck all if you ask me.

Maybe we'll need 10,000 years of scientific measurement & observations, before we'll know with any certainty what is actually going on.

We have hundreds of thousands of years of observations.

darkpagandeath

Saipanne wrote: »

We have hundreds of thousands of years of observations.

aye and it's been hotter in the past that it is now.

Saipanne

darkpagandeath wrote: »

aye and it's been hotter in the past that it is now.

Yes, 4bn years ago it was very hot indeed...

darkpagandeath

Saipanne wrote: »

Yes, 4bn years ago it was very hot indeed...

Love to see the Ice cores from that date.. :P

Edgarfrndly

TomBtheGoat wrote: »

Humans, what do we know? Fúck all if you ask me.

Maybe we'll need 10,000 years of scientific measurement & observations, before we'll know with any certainty what is actually going on.

We already do. We can analyse ice cores by drilling them - which can give us data on the Earth's climate going back 800,000 years. We also can look at tree rings, which give us further information on climate going back thousands of years, amongst other methods.

It's this sort of blissful ignorance online about climate, that allows the climate change deniers to grow like fungus.

Climate change is occurring, and we have a huge amount of data supporting it.

darkpagandeath

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

We already do. We can analyse ice cores by drilling them - which can give us data on the Earth's climate going back 800,000 years. We also can look at tree rings, which give us further information on climate going back thousands of years, amongst other methods.

It's this sort of blissful ignorance online about climate, that allows the climate change deniers to grow like fungus.

Climate change is occurring, and we have a huge amount of data supporting it.

Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.

topper75

Maybe all the nasty CO2 in the atmosphere got 'magic'ed away for one year.

Either that or the global warming greanhouse gas thing is a cod to wangle tax out of people and hike 'research' budgets.

You decide.

Saipanne

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.

Why is Venus so hot?

darkpagandeath

topper75 wrote: »

Maybe all the nasty CO2 in the atmosphere got 'magic'ed away for one year.

Either that or the global warming greanhouse gas thing is a cod to wangle tax out of people and hike 'research' budgets.

You decide.

I would like to hear just one of these climatologist give us a number in relation to how much input humans have had. Just one. It's like if your house was already on fire and you then pour a bit of petrol on it it's still going to burn down.

ScumLord

Saipanne wrote: »

Yes, 4bn years ago it was very hot indeed...

And 2 billion years ago it was extremely cold. Probably miles of ice covering the entire planet thanks to Bacteria spewing toxic oxygen into the atmosphere.

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

We already do. We can analyse ice cores by drilling them - which can give us data on the Earth's climate going back 800,000 years.

That only gives us an idea of what the weather was like over extended periods of time though. It's not going to give us a breakdown of the global climate variations in a huge amount of detail. It allows us to make some educated guesses. Even if we did have detailed weather reports going back 10,000 years it could still be next to useless for the next 10,000 years as the climate might change completely over that time.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.

What about the mini ice age in the medieval times? It's always in a state of constant change but I think it's pretty clear that humans have been affecting the planet more and more as time goes on. We are pretty much a force of nature at this point. We can let nature take it's course but it would be in our own best interests to manage our effect on the planet. The weather on earth can go either way, at the moment the planet has ideal weather for human colonisation, if it gets hotter or colder we may not be able to sustain our populations.

darkpagandeath

Saipanne wrote: »

Why is Venus so hot?

Incredibly dense atmosphere.

darkpagandeath

ScumLord wrote: »

And 2 billion years ago it was extremely cold. Probably miles of ice covering the entire planet thanks to Bacteria spewing toxic oxygen into the atmosphere.

That only gives us an idea of what the weather was like over extended periods of time though. It's not going to give us a breakdown of the global climate variations in a huge amount of detail. It allows us to make some educated guesses. Even if we did have detailed weather reports going back 10,000 years it could still be next to useless for the next 10,000 years as the climate might change completely over that time.

What about the mini ice age in the medieval times? It's always in a state of constant change but I think it's pretty clear that humans have been affecting the planet more and more as time goes on. We are pretty much a force of nature at this point. We can let nature take it's course but it would be in our own best interests to manage our effect on the planet. The weather on earth can go either way, at the moment the planet has ideal weather for human colonisation, if it gets hotter or colder we may not be able to sustain our populations.

I get what you are saying, But with or without human help we could end up at a state of another extinction level event.

Saipanne

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Incredibly dense atmosphere.

Nearly there. What is that atmosphere primarily made of?

darkpagandeath

Saipanne wrote: »

Nearly there. What is that atmosphere primarily made of?

If we had an atmosphere as dense as Venus, its composition would be the least of our problems.

Saipanne

darkpagandeath wrote: »

If we had an atmosphere as dense as Venus, its composition would be the least of our problems.

No. Come on now, you have access to the internet too. You can read why Venus is so hot. So, what is the atmosphere made of?

You know the answer.

Akrasia

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I get what you are saying, But with or without human help we could end up at a state of another extinction level event.

This position genuinely makes no sense to me.

It's a bit like saying 'I'm gonna die anyway, so I might as well play russian roulette'

Humans massively changing the biosphere, we're fundamentally changing the composition of our atmosphere, we're altering the chemistry of the ocieans and we're terraforming the land. 83% of the land surface of the earth is being direclty affected by human activity.

We have a responsibility to ourselves to do everything we can to protect our biosphere for our own benefit and for future generations.

Edgarfrndly

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Who is denying the temperature is slightly going up. But again it's been even hotter in the past with no humans about. Follow the money where do your carbon tax dollars go ? We also have huge amounts of data showing higher temperatures in the past. Take the warm medieval period.

It's not about the change, but the rate of change and cause of change.

The MWP can be explained by science, in the same way today's abnormal shift in climate can be explained by science. We can analyse data and reports, and draw conclusions to show that the cause of previous shifts in climate and today's shift in climate are not related.

At no point have climatologists stated that our climate was static. So citing some marginal shift in the past, is not an argument against the cause of the shift we are currently experiencing.

As for "carbon tax dollars" - I don't buy the conspiracy theory. You either believe that the overwhelming majority of climatologists, and climate students are all in on one huge conspiracy about one of the most important questions in science or that the huge array of peer-review studies that are published every second week by them are credible, and well-founded.

ScumLord

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I get what you are saying, But with or without human help we could end up at a state of another extinction level event.

Sure, but with human help we're probably certain to end up at some low level extinction event. One to go hand in hand with the ongoing extinction event that's been happening for the past 100,000 years or so of human exploitation. We're clearly having an effect, nature probably hasn't had this much of an effect on the environment with one creature since the early days of bacteria.

darkpagandeath

Saipanne wrote: »

No. Come on now, you have access to the internet too. You can read why Venus is so hot. So, what is the atmosphere made of?

You know the answer.

Yes its rather close to the sun as well....

Saipanne

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes its rather close to the sun as well....

But much hotter than mercury, strange that...

What is the atmosphere made of? Too afraid to admit it?

ScumLord

Saipanne wrote: »

No. Come on now, you have access to the internet too. You can read why Venus is so hot. So, what is the atmosphere made of?

You know the answer.

The atmosphere is comprised mainly of yoga pants which is what makes it so hot.

darkpagandeath

Saipanne wrote: »

But much hotter than mercury, strange that...

What is the atmosphere made of? Too afraid to admit it?

Has one a way of swapping all the nitrogen on earth to carbon dioxide ? I will look forward to the explanation on how we will breath over 90% carbon dioxide.

PopePalpatine

topper75 wrote: »

Maybe all the nasty CO2 in the atmosphere got 'magic'ed away for one year.

Either that or the global warming greanhouse gas thing is a cod to wangle tax out of people and hike 'research' budgets.

You decide.

Conversely, the "climate change skeptics" are either bravely defending freedom from greedy governments, or they're a respectable front for greedier fossil fuel companies.