Bike fines on the way

OneOfThem Stumbled

So at the end of the month the on-the-spot fines for numerous offences will come into play. I don't think anything will be against the law that technically already wasn't - but it means that in practice a lot of things will be penalised that weren't before.

So what do people feel about them as a whole, and individually?

As a whole I have no particular opinion, but two individual rules that I find irksome are NO LEFT TURNS AT RED LIGHTS and no cycling up the wrong way on cycle paths.

WTF? The reason cars can't turn left at traffic lights is because if another car is coming there won't be room for the two of them. For me, on my cycle to work there's a traffic light that should only be yield for left turns (just check if there's anything coming and, as there usually isn't, just go). What, do I have to dismount, walk into the middle of the road, and then cycle off? And the cycle paths that usually are empty or can fit two cyclists abreast suddenly become instantly fineable if you aren't riding in the direction the county council deemed the right way?

Is this just a response to the odd arsehole cyclist, or are these reasonable diktats? Am I being lazy, or simply asking a leading question?

Timberrrrrrrr

About time.

Menas

I got stopped by the Garda in 1983 for cycling up a one way street. Threatened me with Jail and a fine if he caught me doing it again.
So it turns out that he was lying to me? B@stard.

Mint Sauce

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

So at the end of the month the on-the-spot fines for numerous offences will come into play. I don't think anything will be against the law that technically already wasn't - but it means that in practice a lot of things will be penalised that weren't before.

So what do people feel about them as a whole, and individually?

As a whole I have no particular opinion, but two individual rules that I find irksome are NO LEFT TURNS AT RED LIGHTS and no cycling up the wrong way on cycle paths.

WTF? The reason cars can't turn left at traffic lights is because if another car is coming there won't be room for the two of them. For me, on my cycle to work there's a traffic light that should only be yield for left turns (just check if there's anything coming and, as there usually isn't, just go). What, do I have to dismount, walk into the middle of the road, and then cycle off? And the cycle paths that usually are empty or can fit two cyclists abreast suddenly become instantly fineable if you aren't riding in the direction the county council deemed the right way?

Is this just a response to the odd arsehole cyclist, or are these reasonable diktats? Am I being lazy, or simply asking a leading question?

First point, already an AH thread on this somewhere.

But to answer one of your questions, already reluctant to use cycle lanes, as horribly maintained, and due to other roads users total inability to follow the ROTR around them, based on them two, not a snowballs chance I would risk riding the wrong way down one.

eamonnq

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Am I being lazy, or simply asking a leading question?

You are being lazy, we have enough cyclist vs motorist, cyclist vs pedestrians threads already.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Menas wrote: »

I got stopped by the Garda in 1983 for cycling up a one way street. Threatened me with Jail and a fine if he caught me doing it again.
So it turns out that he was lying to me? B@stard.

Nah you could have been given a court summons. Difference now is that you could have an on-the-spot fine instead (I don't no if one-way-streets are included tho)

Mint Sauce wrote: »

First point, already an AH thread on this somewhere.

Nooooooooooo...

eamonnq wrote: »

You are being lazy, we have enough cyclist vs motorist, cyclist vs pedestrians threads already.

No, it is you who is lazy: how can you say that here there are enough cyclist vs motorist, cyclist vs pedestrians threads? Do your duty soldier and rant on behalf of your side!

Graham

I can't see how this is going to be an issue for the majority of cyclists who have always obeyed the rules of the road.

On the other side, Lycra Louts watch out.

Akrasia

All cyclists are also pedestrians
All Motorists are also pediestrians
Many Cyclists are also motorists
Some Motorists are also cyclists

Why can't we all just get along.
What's with this dividing people into cyclists vs motorists vs pedestrians

We should all be united to call for decent facilities in our cities to allow us all to go about our business safely

I'm genuinely impressed that some people are brave enough to go out every day and cycle through the streets of an irish city. It's a terrifying experience.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Well there's some good news on a Tuesday morning. Less likely to get milled out of it at traffic lights, hopefully.

doolox

This handy little work around should be allowed for ALL traffic yielding to traffic on the green lighted side but I do not see it happening soon as the Irish authorities are too conservative to move on this and Irish drivers are too confused to obey the left only rule and some would go straight ahead on red as well, probably following a left turner through the junction before realising they cannot go through red.........

I have lost count of the times I have seen people turn right from the left hand lane or left from the right hand lane on a two lane junction or the lazy people who coast up between the two lanes no indicator and leave the left/right decision to the very last minute.........

Tenzor07

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

So what do people feel about them as a whole, and individually?

You could just search the multitudes of threads started recently on the subject to find out peoples thoughts?

Otherwise this will just descend into thread number 3,499(this year) on cyclists vs. motorists; road tax, insurance, hi-vis, helmets, insurance, ban them, breaking red lights..

Menas

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Nah you could have been given a court summons. Difference now is that you could have an on-the-spot fine instead (I don't no if one-way-streets are included tho)

Sorry, I should have pointed out that I was 8 years old at the time. He was just trying to scare me with a non existent punishment.
Telling me that my pocket money would be stopped would have been more effective.

irelandrover

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

So what do people feel about them as a whole, and individually?

As a whole I have no particular opinion, but two individual rules that I find irksome are NO LEFT TURNS AT RED LIGHTS and no cycling up the wrong way on cycle paths.

Nothing annoys me more than people cycling the wrong way on cycle paths.

S. Goodspeed

This is great use of apparently stretched Gardai resources...

Tenzor07

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

This is great use of apparently stretched Gardai resources...

Sure if the gards try take your bicycle away, just give them a bit of lip and they'll pepper spray you, then take them to court and get a lovely €12,000 reward! :rolleyes:

SteM

Cyclists may become a little more cautious for a while, then when they realise that there are no Gardai hiding behind bushes to catch them they'll go back to the way they used to cycle.

If a lot of drivers feel comfortable enough pushing through amber and just-turning red lights knowing they won;t be caught then what's to stop cyclists pushing through red lights if there's no one around?

whisky_galore

Akrasia wrote: »

Why can't we all just get along.
What's with this dividing people into cyclists vs motorists vs pedestrians

People seem to delight in "Everyone that uses our roads is an Idiot (except me)" Threads.

kylith

irelandrover wrote: »

Nothing annoys me more than people cycling the wrong way on cycle paths.

And they always seem to be gurriers who want to play chicken with you and who won't move out to let you pass them.

eamonnq

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Nooooooooooo...
No, it is you who is lazy: how can you say that here there are enough cyclist vs motorist, cyclist vs pedestrians threads? Do your duty soldier and rant on behalf of your side!

I don't have a side, I have me whose actions I am responsible for and there are others for whose actions I am not responsible for, most of the others don't cause me any concern and all I can do is be wary of the ones that may cause me concern and allow for them as best I can.

Mint Sauce

Akrasia wrote: »

All cyclists are also pedestrians
All Motorists are also pediestrians
Many Cyclists are also motorists
Some Motorists are also cyclists

Why can't we all just get along.
What's with this dividing people into cyclists vs motorists vs pedestrians

We should all be united to call for decent facilities in our cities to allow us all to go about our business safely

I'm genuinely impressed that some people are brave enough to go out every day and cycle through the streets of an irish city. It's a terrifying experience.

Give me cycling in London any day of the week over an Irish City or Town. The amount of drivers in Ireland who never seem to except cyclists or take them into account is quite scary.

OneOfThem Stumbled

irelandrover wrote: »

Nothing annoys me more than people cycling the wrong way on cycle paths.

What about people walking the opposite direction to yourself on a footpath?

I am on the side of the cyclists on many - if not most - of the debates that come up on boards.ie from time to time.

But I am VERY happy to see some powers come into force to finally come down on those - miscreants - that let the side down and give unnecessary fodder to the other side in many of those debates. Some of them rile me up into such a rage that one of these days I am going to do something drastic - like write a sternly worded letter to the editor of the Irish Times for example. I know I know - somebody stop me.

whisky_galore

irelandrover wrote: »

Nothing annoys me more than people cycling the wrong way on cycle paths.

The paths are never going in the direction you want to go (thank you far-sighted planners) and if you go on the road you get growled at by motorists who insist you use the path, so you can't win.
I can't see why many of them can't be bi-directional, unless you've a ar*se the width of a bus, two cyclists can pass quite easily.

Menas

whisky_galore wrote: »

The paths are never going in the direction you want to go (thank you far-sighted planners) and if you go on the road you get growled at by motorists who insist you use the path, so you can't win.
I can't see why many of them can't be bi-directional, unless you've a ar*se the width of a bus, two cyclists can pass quite easily.

Bidirectional bike lanes would be way too common sensible. Away with you!

jackofalltrades

Overall though I support the new penalties.
It's a better way of dealing with law breaking than going through the courts.

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

As a whole I have no particular opinion, but two individual rules that I find irksome are NO LEFT TURNS AT RED LIGHTS........

I don't think this should be brought in for any road user.
The necessary levels of respect for other road users/pedestrians just doesn't exist.
That and a there's a lot of cyclists that don't stop at pedestrian lights as it is.

and no cycling up the wrong way on cycle paths.

Agree with this as well.
Single lane cycle paths generally aren't wide enough to do this safely in all circumstances.
And in the area I live in this leads to people cycling on narrow paths and not yielding to pedestrians, to get to the cycle path.

keith16

Good. Another law that won't be enforced and we can all safely ignore.

malibu4u

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sure if the gards try take your bicycle away, just give them a bit of lip and they'll pepper spray you, then take them to court and get a lovely €12,000 reward! :rolleyes:

would' nt like to try it

about time cyclists got fined though, I see them going through red traffic lights all the time...the other day one nearly got killed, a car going through a green light had to brake and stop suddenly.

Ishmael

Not a bad Idea. Would hope that it can be actually enforced though. What happens if you don't have the money to pay the fine? Do they confiscate the bicycle?

darkpagandeath

Ishmael wrote: »

Not a bad Idea. Would hope that it can be actually enforced though. What happens if you don't have the money to pay the fine? Do they confiscate the bicycle?

No you get an on the spot Tasering.

suicide_circus

Will you need to carry your passport, drivers licence or Garda age card while in control of a bicycle?

Badly Drunk Boy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Will you need to carry your passport, drivers licence or Garda age card while in control of a bicycle?

My passport is just recently out of date (but I've no plans to go abroad), I don't have a driver's licence, and at the age of 42, I don't intend on getting a Garda age card.

Will they just buckle my back wheel or something?

RDM_83 again

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Give me cycling in London any day of the week over an Irish City or Town. The amount of drivers in Ireland who never seem to except cyclists or take them into account is quite scary.

London is far worse for cycling than dublin, you still get artics running through the center during the day . Amount of ghost bikes you see on some routes is shocking !

hatrickpatrick

I'm pretty pissed that cycling on the footpath isn't outright included in this, only "cycling recklessly" on the footpath.
If you're cycling on the footpath, you're automatically putting people walking on it in danger. Same for arseholes who jog on busy footpaths, in fact.

Oafley Jones

Instead of getting into another cyclist vs motorist debate. How about we all pile on Irish people who say "pissed" as the yanks do.

rubadub

suicide_circus wrote: »

Will you need to carry your passport, drivers licence or Garda age card while in control of a bicycle?

No, sure you are not required to have any of those anyway. Most small kids would not have them, or would not be trusted to carry about such an important document as a passport.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm pretty pissed that cycling on the footpath isn't outright included in this, only "cycling recklessly" on the footpath.
If you're cycling on the footpath, you're automatically putting people walking on it in danger.

And so if there is not a sinner on the footpath as far as the eye can see, and no entrances near it you are "automatically" not being reckless?

I guess not, and that's why the gardai have given me a wave as I got off the road and cycled momentarily on a footpath to let them pass me...

The laws are often not enforced since the act is not what the law actually set out to prevent, even if it does fall under the legal definition. I wonder if jaywalking will be next, its absolutely rife, to the point where people think there are no laws.

Majority of people want fines imposed for jaywalking

Tombi!

Will cycling on foothpaths or breaking red lights be finable?

Nothing against the majority but when I see some eejit expecting people to move for them on footpaths is annoying

suicide_circus

rubadub wrote: »

No, sure you are not required to have any of those anyway. Most small kids would not have them, or would not be trusted to carry about such an important document as a passport.

So bikes have no registration numbers and cyclists are not required to carry id.....how are these on the spot fines gonna be imposed?

rubadub

suicide_circus wrote: »

So bikes have no registration numbers and cyclists are not required to carry id.....how are these on the spot fines gonna be imposed?

I would guess it's similar to fines for smoking in non-smoking areas or being drunk. I presume they take your details and giving false details is presumably a more serious offence.

Gardai given power to fine drunks €100 'on the spot'

There is nothing new about any of these cycling offences, they could have brought you to court before and I presume its just taking details. I am still unsure what happens to kids cycling on footpaths if gardai do decide to prosecute -and this is presumably why it was taken off the list.

If cycling on footpaths was in the list of fineable offences you could have expected a lot more traffic delays, as cyclists would ditch the pedestrian littered cycletracks, where they often skipped onto the footpath to dodge them. Motorists can expect a lot more delays with an large increase in bikes slowly taking off at traffic lights. I think there is talk of bringing in lights to let cyclists take off first, so there will be even more delays.

endacl

eamonnq wrote: »

You are being lazy, we have enough cyclist vs motorist, cyclist vs pedestrians threads already.

About time we had the long overdue tricyclist vs skateboarder thread. And what about unicyclists? Shower of bastards.

:mad:

The_Valeyard

endacl wrote: »

About time we had the long overdue tricyclist vs skateboarder thread. And what about unicyclists? Shower of bastards.

:mad:

Bigot!! You left out segways.

MadsL

Jaywalking is illegal in Ireland and fineable. When was the last time you heard anyone being given a walking fine.

Until bikes are required to be registered to an owner then there is no mechanism to enforce the law by AGS. Good law, poor implementation. Be an interesting discussion on Legal Discussion as to if you are legally required to give ANY details to AGS on being pulled over on a bicycle, and if so, how do they verify that?

entropi

kylith wrote: »

And they always seem to be gurriers who want to play chicken with you and who won't move out to let you pass them.

I currently do this when walking on a path (and I win that game). Can't wait until some of these arseholes get fines for not cycling on the road where they should be (granted, it may be safer on the path, especially in Ireland).

Sadly, its a minority of cyclists who ignore the rules, putting a negative view on the rest.

MonkieSocks

Is there anything about having a "Bell" on your bike.

A few times, some of these Footpath Hopping Idiots have mounted the pavement behind me and wizzed by within an Inch or so , frightening the S4IT outta me :mad:

A few BELLENDS on Bikes on Bikes making a bad name for all Cyclists.

Make them wear Bells like the Lepers used to.
( Does not apply to Ex-Lepers )

MadsL

Helpful chap on Legal Discussion just pointed me to this.

108.—A member of the Garda Síochána may demand of a person in charge of a pedal cycle whom the member suspects of having committed any crime or offence or of having been concerned or involved in a collision or other event in a public place causing injury to person or property, the name and address of such person, and if such a person refuses or fails to give his name and address or gives a name or address which the member has reasonable grounds for believing to be false or misleading, the member may take the cycle, by force if necessary, and retain it until such time as he is satisfied as to the identity of such person.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0108.html#sec108

Jawgap

Now that the threat of having to spend a day or half-day sitting around Dolphin House is gone, I may adopt a more pliable attitude towards red lights

Sure it's only €40 and the chances of actually getting caught are limited, to say the least.

hatrickpatrick

rubadub wrote: »

And so if there is not a sinner on the footpath as far as the eye can see, and no entrances near it you are "automatically" not being reckless?

I guess not, and that's why the gardai have given me a wave as I got off the road and cycled momentarily on a footpath to let them pass me...

Big difference between that and those w@nkers who drive rickshaws at breakneck speed on the footpath around Stephen's Green, having the temerity to beep at pedestrians in front of them and expect them to dive out of the way.

I want to see people who carry on like that fined for a first offence and having their vehicle confiscated for say, a third offence.
Parts of the city are simply no longer at all enjoyable to walk around in due to high speed footpath users - cyclists, rickshaws, joggers, whatever. I'm a firm believer that if one is legally on the footpath and walking at a reasonable pace, there should be absolutely no need for them to keep looking over their shoulder in case some obnoxious high speed gobsh!te is coming - that's not what pavements are for.

Son Of A Vidic

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Give me cycling in London any day of the week over an Irish City or Town. The amount of drivers in Ireland who never seem to except cyclists or take them into account is quite scary.

That's because a lot of them haven't a clue how to drive properly around fellow drivers, never mind adding cyclists into the equation. It's bad enough having to share the road with some fellow motorists. But Christ I'd never get on a bicycle, because that's only a death wish imo.

Pinch Flat

MadsL wrote: »

Helpful chap on Legal Discussion just pointed me to this.



http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0108.html#sec108

That's pretty much the case for any criminal offence where there's reasonable suspicion. Did people really think they could give the guard false details and get away with it? Maybe in the minority of cases, but the guards have their own way of checking out who you are. Any doubts, it's down the nearest station where you'll be requested to identify yourself formally

MadsL

Pinch Flat wrote: »

That's pretty much the case for any criminal offence where there's reasonable suspicion. Did people really think they could give the guard false details and get away with it? Maybe in the minority of cases, but the guards have their own way of checking out who you are. Any doubts, it's down the nearest station where you'll be requested to identify yourself formally

I say I am John Smith, and I have no ID on me. What does the guard do next for a very minor offence like jaywalking?

Pinch Flat

MadsL wrote: »

I say I am John Smith, and I have no ID on me. What does the guard do next for a very minor offence like jaywalking?

Dunno. I've never had cause to give my name and address to a guard for a criminal offence, but I did witness them assisting Irish rail on fare evasion at my local station. Went something like this -

"Name and address please"
"John smith"
"Can we call your home, college or place of work to confirm your identity"

Maybe the odd smart ar$e will get away with it, but is imagine the vast majority caught will give correct details in the first place

rottie 11

It's about time really cyclist's think they own the road :P