Ikea to introduce minimum wage of €11.50 per hour

The_Captain

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ikea-to-introduce-living-wage-of-1150-per-hour-for-all-irish-staff-31389134.html

I'm actually tempted to send in a sneaky CV this morning.

It will probably have no impact whatsoever on the wider economy as businesses will continue to do everything possible to force wages down, but if they do actually introduce something like this I'd go out of my way to shop there.

I expect a load of naysayers will decry it as foolish and damaging to the company, but they didn't become the biggest furniture company in the world without having some serious business minds in the company, so I'm interested to see how it all pans out

NachoBusiness

Only downside is that the money is given to the staff in pieces and they have to put together themselves after they have walked seven miles in an S shape to collect it.

strelok

The_Captain wrote: »

I expect a load of naysayers will decry it as foolish and damaging to the company,

do you?

do you really?

gramar

The_Captain wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ikea-to-introduce-living-wage-of-1150-per-hour-for-all-irish-staff-31389134.html

I'm actually tempted to send in a sneaky CV this morning.

It will probably have no impact whatsoever on the wider economy as businesses will continue to do everything possible to force wages down, but if they do actually introduce something like this I'd go out of my way to shop there.

I expect a load of naysayers will decry it as foolish and damaging to the company, but they didn't become the biggest furniture company in the world without having some serious business minds in the company, so I'm interested to see how it all pans out

What does a sneaky CV look like?

Corvo

Well it would certainly have a very positive effect on the staff. It would certainly make you more inclined to strive to be as professional as possible, not be absent etc.

I know people will say you should do that regardless, but look at the effect the likes of Dunnes have on their staff. If I worked there I wouldn't give a **** what happened with my employment as I would be constantly looking for a way out.

kneemos

A lot of the Supermarkets pay over a tenner an hour.
less turnover of staff makes for greater efficiency I suppose.

Annasopra

Why does it take them 8 months?

EoghanIRL

Yeah but ikea has no windows in their stores so you can't tell that time is passing and they keep you there forever.
So really you are selling them your soul.
Still though for 11.50/hr.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

The country has hundreds of businesses that have a de facto minimum wage well above the National minimum wage.

TrustedApple

That wage at 11.50 a hour is better then some of the IT companies are paying for there college Grads :eek:.

I really do think i am in the wrong industry LoL.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

samapple789 wrote: »

That wage at 11.50 a hour is better then some of the IT companies are paying for there college Grads :eek:.

I really do think i am in the wrong industry LoL.

Go away out of that. It's only 24k a year. And that's if they get 40 hours a week every week. With little chance of progression.

Menas

11.50 is the recommended 'living wage'.
Internationally more and more companies seem to be advertising that they do not pay 'minimum wage' but 'living wage'....goes down well with workers and customers alike.

TrustedApple

Brianna Quick Brake wrote: »

Go away out of that. It's only 24k a year. And that's if they get 40 hours a week every week. With little chance of progression.

I have been offered 16K a year working as a Database DEV on a college grad program in Dublin no idea how your post to live on that unless you live at home with your mother and father.

ScumLord

The_Captain wrote: »

It will probably have no impact whatsoever on the wider economy as businesses will continue to do everything possible to force wages down,

Trying to reduce wage costs has been one of the driving forces of business since Henry Ford started spitting Model T cars off his production line.

Menas

ScumLord wrote: »

Trying to reduce wage costs has been one of the driving forces of business since Henry Ford started spitting Model T cars off his production line.

I would argue that it has been ongoing on an industrial scale since the start of the industrial revolution 140 years earlier...but that is another thread!

doolox

In the overall scheme of things a minimum wage should be temporary and there should be a transparent, realistic, measurable path to higher wages in place so that earners can move out of minimum wage quickly by gaining experience and acquiring more skills etc in any given job sector.

Too often people are fobbed off and kept on minimum wage for a long time or replaced by other job seekers starting off on the jobs market either if they secure higher paying work elsewhere or a change in circumstances forces them onto welfare.

There should be an advocacy service of some sort in ALL employments so that people can know the correct procedures and paths to gaining more wages in a planned fashion. Access should be allowed to regional and national wage trends so that people can bargain from a position of accurate knowledge and get the best deal for themselves.

Too often people in unionised employment get much more money simply on the basis of raw political power while non unionised people get a lot less even if they are more skillful and better at their jobs. Work status and nationality also play a huge part in determining pay. There is even a dichotomy between effective union representation and ineffective union representation where internal sectoral competition tend to drive down wages for new recruits doing the same work as holders of older contracts. All these anomolies breed resentment and jealousies in the contemporary workplace and lead to a dysfunctional and nonharmonious work experience.

Big trouble with the minimum wage is that it is transparently obvious to the recipient that they are regarded as somewhat of a minimum contributor to the overall workforce. While people can accept this on a temporary basis in a clearly defined path to higher wages in a certain timeframe it is when the process drags on with a lot of uncertainty and chaos that trouble begins.

The present economic situation does not help this in any way.

JustTheOne

Minimum wage is Germany is 8.50.

Just saying like.

strelok

Menas wrote: »

I would argue that it has been ongoing on an industrial scale since the start of the industrial revolution 140 years earlier...but that is another thread!

what kind of wages do you think people earned working 14 hours a day on landlords farms?

Menas

Menas wrote: »

I would argue that it has been ongoing on an industrial scale since the start of the industrial revolution 140 years earlier...but that is another thread!

That not true from the time of the industrial age business have been trying to drive down cost by automation and they do this to avoid expensive labour costs that's not the same as driving down wages its avoiding the cost of labour by automation, the higher the cost of labour the more incentive to try and automate the work.

kneemos

JustTheOne wrote: »

Minimum wage is Germany is 8.50.

Just saying like.

Same as here.

Captain Chaos

JustTheOne wrote: »

Minimum wage is Germany is 8.50.

Just saying like.

VAT is lower in Germany.

How long is a piece of string.

Aisling(",)

They're also giving existing staff a 2 euro raise on their current rate.

Though the amount of people on 30 hour contracts or higher in Ikea is quite small.

Still a great step by a great company I worked their for 6 years and overall they're really good employers all round.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Captain Chaos wrote: »

VAT is lower in Germany.

How long is a piece of string.

Tax is higher as is the cost if health care, education.....

Menas

mariaalice wrote: »

That not true from the time of the industrial age business have been trying to drive down cost by automation and they do this to avoid expensive labour costs that's not the same as driving down wages its avoiding the cost of labour by automation, the higher the cost of labour the more incentive to try and automate the work.

One of the outcomes of the industrial revolution was to reduce the need for skilled labor and use automation to bring in lower skilled labor at a lower wages. Many of those roles were filled by the skilled laborers whose skills were no longer needed.

Galwayguy35

Depends on the amount of hours they get for it, in Aldi they pay nearly €13 to some of them but as far as I know they don't get much more than a 30 hour week.

Captain Chaos

Brianna Quick Brake wrote: »

Tax is higher as is the cost if health care, education.....

But look at what they get in return for it. I'd happily pay higher tax for the services the general public in Germany get.

Less VAT, cheaper goods and services, but higher direct taxes to provide better quality services. Much better system imo.

suicide_circus

Do ikea have zero hour contracts? If they do, this is a meaningless publicity stunt.

not yet

JustTheOne wrote: »

Minimum wage is Germany is 8.50.

Just saying like.

Yeah but they don't drink or smoke, they also shop in Aldi and get cheap haircuts...

Aisling(",)

suicide_circus wrote: »

Do ikea have zero hour contracts? If they do, this is a meaningless publicity stunt.

Nope minimum is 12 though that's very rare the usual low hours contract is 16.

the groutch

has to taken with a pinch of salt.
largely depends on what pay premiums are for overnight/sundays, and what other perks there are (subsidised food, free uniforms or not, staff discount rate, xmas bonus,etc)

Menas

Menas wrote: »

One of the outcomes of the industrial revolution was to reduce the need for skilled labor and use automation to bring in lower skilled labor at a lower wages. Many of those roles were filled by the skilled laborers whose skills were no longer needed.

So you are a luddite and believer that smashing machine is the answer. independent craftsmen and women did enjoy a somewhat better life before industrial revolution however the industrial revolution brought down the cost of goods, the vast majority of people are not going to pay 500 euro for a hand made chair when you can get a similar one for 80 euro in Ikea.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

mariaalice wrote: »

So you are a luddite and believer that smashing machine is the answer. independent craftsmen and women did enjoy a somewhat better life before industrial revolution however the industrial revolution brought down the cost of goods, the vast majority of people are not going to pay 500 euro for a hand made chair when you can get a similar one for 80 euro in Ikea.

Probably 83 euro in Ikea now though.

cormie

Now they just need to hire more staff. The IKEA staff I've dealt with are generally quite helpful, but they always seem very busy and a lot say they don't have time to help you find a few things. Sometimes there's no staff in certain departments too. The queues can be ridiculous too when they don't have enough tills open, sometimes queuing for half an hour.

ScumLord

Menas wrote: »

I would argue that it has been ongoing on an industrial scale since the start of the industrial revolution 140 years earlier...but that is another thread!

They were sort of different types of revolution I guess. The start of the industrial revolution was able to produce a lot of stuff for little money. It still needed a human operator, it wouldn't really have been automation more like jigs to increase production. Automation takes people out of the equation.

mariaalice wrote: »

independent craftsmen and women did enjoy a somewhat better life before industrial revolution

I wouldn't have sthought that, factories were a work place open to women. It gave jobs to women were they wouldn't have had a role before. Craftsmen were probably fairly common before the industrial revolution and that would have forced them to operate at small margins. The industrial revolution may have wiped out a lot of the craftsmen but the ones that were left would have been better off.

wes

samapple789 wrote: »

I have been offered 16K a year working as a Database DEV on a college grad program in Dublin no idea how your post to live on that unless you live at home with your mother and father.

There chancing there arm with that offer. I started on 25k nearly 9 years ago, and I was able to quickly get increases by moving around after getting some experience.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

They were sort of different types of revolution I guess. The start of the industrial revolution was able to produce a lot of stuff for little money. It still needed a human operator, it wouldn't really have been automation more like jigs to increase production. Automation takes people out of the equation.

I wouldn't have sthought that, factories were a work place open to women. It gave jobs to women were they wouldn't have had a role before. Craftsmen were probably fairly common before the industrial revolution and that would have forced them to operate at small margins. The industrial revolution may have wiped out a lot of the craftsmen but the ones that were left would have been better off.

The big thing before the industrial revolution was that crafts men and woman say home wavers had status and control over their lives in a way they never has in factors, in fact it was hard to persuade people to work in factors at first they know they were giving up autonomy.

Menas

mariaalice wrote: »

So you are a luddite and believer that smashing machine is the answer. independent craftsmen and women did enjoy a somewhat better life before industrial revolution however the industrial revolution brought down the cost of goods, the vast majority of people are not going to pay 500 euro for a hand made chair when you can get a similar one for 80 euro in Ikea.

That is a big jump to make based on what I said.
I have just said that the lowering of wages goes back a lot further than now (which is what one poster said) and than Henry Ford (which is what another poster said).

TrustedApple

wes wrote: »

There chancing there arm with that offer. I started on 25k nearly 9 years ago, and I was able to quickly get increases by moving around after getting some experience.

I did take a job for another company after for extremely good money. Would help if i could explain the job :pac:.

But a lot of the large IT companies are offering peanuts this year with there wages as they don't tell you anything about the pay on to they are offering you the job now. Get ready for a few hart attacks with the wages some places are offering now.

wes

samapple789 wrote: »

But a lot of the large IT companies are offering peanuts this year with there wages as they don't tell you anything about the pay on to they are offering you the job now. Get ready for a few hart attacks with the wages some places are offering now.

There crazy if they think they will get people who will care about the job at 16k. If that is the kind of money being offered, they have lost the plot.

steddyeddy

The people at the bottom are the wealth creators IMHO. I don't take trickle down economics seriously.

Greenmachine

Recently put in an application with them. They already paid more that a lot of similar jobs. My understanding is last year they paid a 9% pro rate bonus to all staff on years end. I think the average bonus for full year staff was €1900, that would indicate that most staff are part-time, but the bonus not something to be sniffed. at.

TrustedApple

wes wrote: »

There crazy if they think they will get people who will care about the job at 16k. If that is the kind of money being offered, they have lost the plot.

Do you know what made it hard for college grads ?. Jobs bridge as they can try and take on a programer for notting for 9 months if they wonted to.

Microsoft where only offering 21k this year as a Grad IT Project Manager that is shocking wages considering it incuded no paid overtime.

Loads of places have really lost it with what wages there offering and they don't tell you to they offer you the job now with how much there going to pay you.

steddyeddy

samapple789 wrote: »

I did take a job for another company after for extremely good money. Would help if i could explain the job :pac:.

But a lot of the large IT companies are offering peanuts this year with there wages as they don't tell you anything about the pay on to they are offering you the job now. Get ready for a few hart attacks with the wages some places are offering now.

The problem is that IT became so fashionable that too many people trained in IT. The same will happen to science in a few years.

Eugene Norman

ScumLord wrote: »

They were sort of different types of revolution I guess. The start of the industrial revolution was able to produce a lot of stuff for little money. It still needed a human operator, it wouldn't really have been automation more like jigs to increase production. Automation takes people out of the equation.

I wouldn't have sthought that, factories were a work place open to women. It gave jobs to women were they wouldn't have had a role before. Craftsmen were probably fairly common before the industrial revolution and that would have forced them to operate at small margins. The industrial revolution may have wiped out a lot of the craftsmen but the ones that were left would have been better off.

You're basically speculating about the past. Women worked in farms. In the industrial revolution some were employed in industry but most workers in physically demanding labour were men. Like mine workers. A lot of women went into service. Most working class women did work, though. Hence the name.

The early stages of the industrial revolution saw general wage declines ( hence Marx and others assuming an "iron law of wages") and it was only mass mobilisation of unions and some middle class groups ( often religious) that opposed child labour, 7 day weeks and 16 hour days as well as proper remuneration that saw wages increase. It's not inevitable that wages increase in capitalism.

By the time of Ford it was recognised that increasing wages increased consumerism. And Ford himself understood that his own workers could be purchasers of his cars given a rise. So he did. $5 an hour. Given that some countries in Europe have minimum wages of just 8€ now that's obviously spectacular. He also forced his competitors ( and industry generally) to up their game. Higher wages meant more car sales.

Streetwalker

11.50 an hour?? Break out the champagne

Eugene Norman

samapple789 wrote: »

Do you know what made it hard for college grads ?. Jobs bridge as they can try and take on a programer for notting for 9 months if they wonted to.

Microsoft where only offering 21k this year as a Grad IT Project Manager that is shocking wages considering it incuded no paid overtime.

Loads of places have really lost it with what wages there offering and they don't tell you to they offer you the job now with how much there going to pay you.

In IT the juniors are basically learning the ropes. Microsoft will pay less but you will have worked for Microsoft.

steddyeddy

What qualification do you need to work in IT?

Kintarō Hattori

Brianna Quick Brake wrote: »

Go away out of that. It's only 24k a year. And that's if they get 40 hours a week every week. With little chance of progression.

I don't work there myself but know that you can work 20, 30 or 40 hours per week. A surprising amount of their workers choose part time. In terms of progression they have supervisors, deputy managers and managers for each of the many departments. If you feel like a change you can apply to work within a different section of the company so you could for example look to leave the checkouts and move into the bedroom/kitchen departments etc for which you'd receive training.
Once you've moved from checkouts to supervisor to deputy manager to manager of a department to duty manager you can always move elsewhere if you so desired. My point being that it has no less promotion opportunities than most other companies. Factor in higher rates for those with extra training, longer service, bonuses and a pension contribution etc it's not hard to be above the basic pay grade. You also get heavily subsidised food (there are a lot more offerings than in the restaurant).

Eugene Norman

steddyeddy wrote: »

What qualification do you need to work in IT?

It depends what people mean by IT. For programming etc a computer science of equivalent degree ( ie engineering level 8) is often mentioned.

Clandestine

They can afford it, I wonder how many small business's can?

Eugene Norman

Clandestine wrote: »

They can afford it, I wonder how many small business's can?

I suppose that's neither here nor there.