disciplinary procedure issue

aimee1

I was accused in work of "Refusing to do a specific job" on Friday June 12th.

The Job i refused to do was a package that was returned to my bench at 4.20 that day once the missing component was received into the company.

The problem is i finish work at midday every friday and the notice issued on june 24th still hasnt been dealt with even though I have provided written evidence from the companies own system that the job in question was returned to me when i was not present.


How do I go about getting this issue resolved

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

I was accused in work of "Refusing to do a specific job" on Friday June 12th.

The Job i refused to do was a package that was returned to my bench at 4.20 that day once the missing component was received into the company.

The problem is i finish work at midday every friday and the notice issued on june 24th still hasnt been dealt with even though I have provided written evidence from the companies own system that the job in question was returned to me when i was not present.


How do I go about getting this issue resolved

Have you had a response to the fact that you don't work after 12 on Fridays?

Did you deal with it the following MOnday?

This sounds a bit bizarre tbh

Irish_Elect_Eng

Your post is very vague, to get help from folks, some more detail would be needed.

Are you saying that the disciplinary statement in incorrect, in that you were not in the building at the time of the request to do the work?

You state "the Job i refused to do" how did you refuse if you where not there? Were you contacted about the task, to do OT or return to the business to complete the task on the day in question and refused?

aimee1

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

Your post is very vague, to get help from folks, some more detail would be needed.

Are you saying that the disciplinary statement in incorrect, in that you were not in the building at the time of the request to do the work?

You state "the Job i refused to do" how did you refuse if you where not there? Were you contacted about the task, to do OT or return to the business to complete the task on the day in question and refused?

i left work at midday. the job in question was returned to me at 4.20. They issue a disciplinary notice claiming i refused to do this job on friday as requested by my supervisor. I was at home, enjoying a cuppa and watching Heartbeat.

I was not contacted after midday on june 12th, next contact was monday june 15th.

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

i left work at midday. the job in question was returned to me at 4.20. They issue a disciplinary notice claiming i refused to do this job on friday as requested by my supervisor. I was at home, enjoying a cuppa and watching Heartbeat.

I was not contacted after midday on june 12th, next contact was monday june 15th.

WHo is they? And did you do the job on the 15th?

You're still being impossibly vague


If the job was on your desk at 9am on the 15th why didn't you deal with it?

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

WHo is they? And did you do the job on the 15th?

You're still being impossibly vague


If the job was on your desk at 9am on the 15th why didn't you deal with it?

They = workshop manager and HR

i received a letter saying i refused to do this job on june 12th.

it was completed on the 15th.

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

They = workshop manager and HR

i received a letter saying i refused to do this job on june 12th.

it was completed on the 15th.

Well the first thing is to go back and advise them you finish at 12 on a Friday

Have you done that?

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

Well the first thing is to go back and advise them you finish at 12 on a Friday

Have you done that?

I told them in writing i finish at midday on friday
i provide a print out of the audit trail of the job on the company system which showed the job was reassigned to me over 4 hours after i left.

I have heard nothing since

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

I told them in writing i finish at midday on friday
i provide a print out of the audit trail of the job on the company system which showed the job was reassigned to me over 4 hours after i left.

I have heard nothing since

Possibly you won't hear anything as you've provided proof that you didn't ignore it as you weren't there

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

Possibly you won't hear anything as you've provided proof that you didn't ignore it as you weren't there

i emailed HR last week and they told me it was on hold

BarryD

Go see the HR person or whatever they're called nowadays.

Lot to be said for self employment sometimes, no putting up with this rubbish

aimee1

is there any time limit on them acting on the initial notice?

MarkAnthony

aimee1 wrote: »

is there any time limit on them acting on the initial notice?

Nothing specific.

Bear in mind you have the right to cross examine witnesses. I would avail myself of that right if it goes to hearing. I'd flat out ask the supervisor/initiator of the process how they expected the work to be done after you finished and let the answer stand for it self.

If it does go to hearing my first port of call would be to say that you were gone for the day.

I think someone simply has their wires crossed.

aimee1

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Nothing specific.

Bear in mind you have the right to cross examine witnesses. I would avail myself of that right if it goes to hearing. I'd flat out ask the supervisor/initiator of the process how they expected the work to be done after you finished and let the answer stand for it self.

If it does go to hearing my first port of call would be to say that you were gone for the day.

I think someone simply has their wires crossed.

Am i definitely allowed to ask witnesses questions directly?


Is there any info online about this i can use to back that up. I cant say some guy on the Internet told me.

MarkAnthony

aimee1 wrote: »

Am i definitely allowed to ask witnesses questions directly?


Is there any info online about this i can use to back that up. I cant say some guy on the Internet told me.

Without wanting to sound arrogant, I don't know where you'd find the info in layman's terms. It comes from the precept that all quasi-judicial hearing (which a disciplinary hearing is) should be conducted with fair procedures which stem from constitutional justice.

It's why so many large firms get it so wrong here. Their HR teams are either UK based or influenced by the UK where the same provisions do not exist.

As with all disciplinaries they should be taken seriously and a solicitor should be involved at an early stage. With this I'd personally put that on hold until you know there will be definite hearing or you need to appeal. As I say I think it's a case of crossed wires.

aimee1

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Without wanting to sound arrogant, I don't know where you'd find the info in layman's terms. It comes from the precept that all quasi-judicial hearing (which a disciplinary hearing is) should be conducted with fair procedures which stem from constitutional justice.

It's why so many large firms get it so wrong here. Their HR teams are either UK based or influenced by the UK where the same provisions do not exist.

As with all disciplinaries they should be taken seriously and a solicitor should be involved at an early stage. With this I'd personally put that on hold until you know there will be definite hearing or you need to appeal. As I say I think it's a case of crossed wires.

the plot thickens. they are now trying to alter the complaint to say i refused to do it immediately on monday morning. It was completed at about 10am and was dispatched at 2pm [this is our standard collection time]

Surely they cannot change the details of the notice to suit themselves?

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

the plot thickens. they are now trying to alter the complaint to say i refused to do it immediately on monday morning. It was completed at about 10am and was dispatched at 2pm [this is our standard collection time]

Surely they cannot change the details of the notice to suit themselves?

I think I asked that earlier, did something prevent you dealing with a task that arose Friday afternoon first thing Monday?

What time did you start Monday? And was it marked as urgent?

It sounds to me (no offence) that someone has taken against you and is using this as an opportunity to deal with that. Who is making the complaint? Is it your direct manager?

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

I think I asked that earlier, did something prevent you dealing with a task that arose Friday afternoon first thing Monday?

What time did you start Monday? And was it marked as urgent?

It sounds to me (no offence) that someone has taken against you and is using this as an opportunity to deal with that. Who is making the complaint? Is it your direct manager?

yeah my direct manager. I was given the job at about 9 as he took it away friday afternoon [his shift is different to mine so he was there friday afternoon]

I started at 8. By 10 it was on the dispatch pallet. I couldnt print out a label because I had started other stuff which require different labels and once that was finished it was the first job i completed.


edit - it was 9.47 when it was completed to be precise.

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

yeah my direct manager. I was given the job at about 9 as he took it away friday afternoon [his shift is different to mine so he was there friday afternoon]

I started at 8. By 10 it was on the dispatch pallet. I couldnt print out a label because I had started other stuff which require different labels and once that was finished it was the first job i completed.


edit - it was 9.47 when it was completed to be precise.

So is it the fact that there was a delay with getting the relevant label printed that is being used as the reason for the disciplinary as that is what delayed the job being completed?

When was the label printed?

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

So is it the fact that there was a delay with getting the relevant label printed that is being used as the reason for the disciplinary as that is what delayed the job being completed?

When was the label printed?

i was told to "make sure it went today"

Once I set up the printer i needed to print the different labels before switching. I just dont understand the process. The job was only ever going to leave the building at 2pm. It did. I think its fairly pedantic logic. Even if i was given the job and finished it at 8.05am it still would have left at 2pm.

He is backtracking on the original complaint to suit the paper trail as such, and I am sure he cannot do that.

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

i was told to "make sure it went today"

Once I set up the printer i needed to print the different labels before switching. I just dont understand the process. The job was only ever going to leave the building at 2pm. It did. I think its fairly pedantic logic. Even if i was given the job and finished it at 8.05am it still would have left at 2pm.

He is backtracking on the original complaint to suit the paper trail as such, and I am sure he cannot do that.

Ok it sounds like this is a case where something was to be fast tracked and due to your not understanding that, it wasn't and that's the issue, you worked on other stuff rather than getting that job completed.

How was it only ever going to leave at 2pm? Is nothing collected prior to that?

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

Ok it sounds like this is a case where something was to be fast tracked and due to your not understanding that, it wasn't and that's the issue, you worked on other stuff rather than getting that job completed.

How was it only ever going to leave at 2pm? Is nothing collected prior to that?

standard collection time of 2pm daily. I was given the job at 9. By that time i had started to print the labels for a different batch [the labels roll costs about 100 quid so I couldnt change over at that point because it wastes labels and the foil to print them.

I think more then anything when i produced the audit trail to show what time it was allocated on friday he is making the assumption i was being smart. And this is payback.

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

standard collection time of 2pm daily. I was given the job at 9. By that time i had started to print the labels for a different batch [the labels roll costs about 100 quid so I couldnt change over at that point because it wastes labels and the foil to print them.

I think more then anything when i produced the audit trail to show what time it was allocated on friday he is making the assumption i was being smart. And this is payback.

It reads like there is more to it to be honest, some sort of dispute between you and him that has now escalated, or him not wanting you there.

If he can reasonably prove that you were told to deal with it asap and didn't, then you have a problem

Ken.

Do deliveries go out on Saturday and Sunday? Seems to me that even if you'd been there and done the job Friday it still would have been Monday at 2pm before it left.
Could the manager have received the order Friday morning,forgot about it and is now covering their own arse?. I'd find out what time the package was received Friday and see if I'm right.

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

It reads like there is more to it to be honest, some sort of dispute between you and him that has now escalated, or him not wanting you there.

If he can reasonably prove that you were told to deal with it asap and didn't, then you have a problem

It was given to me with a post-it saying " to go today"

aimee1

ken wrote: »

Do deliveries go out on Saturday and Sunday? Seems to me that even if you'd been there and done the job Friday it still would have been Monday at 2pm before it left.
Could the manager have received the order Friday morning,forgot about it and is now covering their own arse?. I'd find out what time the package was received Friday and see if I'm right.

No weekday only. It was allocated to me at 4.19 pm on the friday over four hours after my shift finished. I think customer got text alert and kicked up when they didnt get on monday morning and now its pass the buck time.

snoopy12

Have they actually put the complaint in writing to you?

nukin_futs

No weekday only. It was allocated to me at 4.19 pm on the friday over four hours after my shift finished. I think customer got text alert and kicked up when they didnt get on monday morning and now its pass the buck time.

Even if you were there on Friday at 4.19 and completed the job immediately it could not have gone out until Monday at 2pm, so in either case there was no delay to the customer.

aimee1

snoopy12 wrote: »

Have they actually put the complaint in writing to you?

Yes and they are trying to change the nature of it now too.

MarkAnthony

Do you have the Post it?

To be honest I agree with the folks above, some one has taken issue with you for some reason. I'd speak to FLAC although an employment solicitor will be better. The first objection to that is always cost - weigh up job v no job and the potential that it gets people to back off - less stress and all that.

I'd sit down and go through it all in your head. I'd then make sure that it's a third party and not the line manager in question doing the hearing. If asked why HR let them know you'll be cross examining him (ideally with the truthful addition of 'at the advice of my solicitor'.) Don't be afraid to put the questions to him/her on why the changes to the paper work etc. I'd personally then call anyone involved in it from the HR side also.

Get all your questions ready, try and keep them to yourself. If asked by HR what you want to ask keep things close and give a few details but not all. If they advise you must submit all questions ahead of time - speak to a solicitor I can't advise you there.

Ensure fair procedures are followed. Maybe, and this is subjective, alledge bullying if you feel that's the case - only you know.

All that said, do not take any of that as legal advice. Get proper legal advice from someone who isn't using a Kings Inn manual as a mouse mat.

aimee1

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Do you have the Post it?

To be honest I agree with the folks above, some one has taken issue with you for some reason. I'd speak to FLAC although an employment solicitor will be better. The first objection to that is always cost - weigh up job v no job and the potential that it gets people to back off - less stress and all that.

I'd sit down and go through it all in your head. I'd then make sure that it's a third party and not the line manager in question doing the hearing. If asked why HR let them know you'll be cross examining him (ideally with the truthful addition of 'at the advice of my solicitor'.) Don't be afraid to put the questions to him/her on why the changes to the paper work etc. I'd personally then call anyone involved in it from the HR side also.

Get all your questions ready, try and keep them to yourself. If asked by HR what you want to ask keep things close and give a few details but not all. If they advise you must submit all questions ahead of time - speak to a solicitor I can't advise you there.

Ensure fair procedures are followed. Maybe, and this is subjective, alledge bullying if you feel that's the case - only you know.

All that said, do not take any of that as legal advice. Get proper legal advice from someone who isn't using a Kings Inn manual as a mouse mat.

turns out the package was for a friend of a director and a supervisor messed up shipping it on friday and tried to pass the buck. dont need this sh1t in work really.