Reserving a seat on train, why?

The Moldy Gowl

I booked a train ticket online the other day for Dublin to limerick at half 5.
Went and reserved my seat, name above seat, check.

Got on it today, and there is people in my seat, my name isn't above the seat, her name above the seat.
Went down the carriage checking names and went into the next one to be sure. Tried to find an employee to say it to. None around. None on the train.
I just sat next to some guy so I'm grand. I'll survive.

Then a family of 4 come on, who have obviously prebooked the 4 seats. They are all occupied apart from 1. Arguments erupt.
There is now 3 people standing on the train who had prebooked seats who don't have seats.


Why does this happen? Why is there no employee on a Friday rush hour train to supervise? Do they double book seats?

Grab All Association

railusers.ie wrote:

Irish Rail aren't eager to let it be publicly known but if you reserve a seat and you end up standing or end up in standard class despite booking first class you are entitled to a full refund.

Visit our refund page here, download the appropriate refund form based on the journey you made. When completing the form, give the reason as:

Reservation not honoured -

Seat did not exist, no other seat available
Train cancelled, broke down, replaced by bus (except where prior notice given at time of booking)
Missed connection due Irish Rail delay etc., travelled on other train as a result and had to stand
Occupant of seat refused to vacate, no other seat available
Booked first class - no first class on train

http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_issues/seat_res.php

Claim form http://www.railusers.ie/passenger_info/forms/delay_refund_intercity_heuston.pdf

The Moldy Gowl

Thanks. I'm lucky I got a seat. Even though it's not mine. I'll let that family know, if theyre not loud or annoying

foggy_lad

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Thanks. I'm lucky I got a seat. Even though it's not mine. I'll let that family know, if theyre not loud or annoying

were you in the right carriage? were the people in your seat in the right carriage and on the correct train?

The Moldy Gowl

foggy_lad wrote: »

were you in the right carriage? were the people in your seat in the right carriage and on the correct train?

Yes. I was in the 'a' carriage where online booking gets put


I didn't ask them because they all looked together and I didn't want to create a scene to displace one person knowing I would at least get a seat anyway becuase I pre booked a seat.
I did not know standing existed at that point..


I got a seat behind them so I wasn't technically put out but it's still annoying.

coylemj

I still don't know why IR don't allow you to book a seat without a reservation.

Say I'd like to travel from Dublin to Cork next Thursday and I do it online so I can pay with my credit card and can either print off the ticket or pick it up from one of the machines in Heuston.

Now just suppose I'm not bothered about having a reserved seat - do you suppose it's possible to avoid being allocated a reserved seat? No.

Hilly Bill

coylemj wrote: »

I still don't know why IR don't allow you to book a seat without a reservation.

Say I'd like to travel from Dublin to Cork next Thursday and I do it online so I can pay with my credit card and can either print off the ticket or pick it up from one of the machines in Heuston.

Now just suppose I'm not bothered about having a reserved seat - do you suppose it's possible to avoid being allocated a reserved seat? No.

You are not forced to sit in that seat.

Hilly Bill

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I booked a train ticket online the other day for Dublin to limerick at half 5.
Went and reserved my seat, name above seat, check.

Got on it today, and there is people in my seat, my name isn't above the seat, her name above the seat.
Went down the carriage checking names and went into the next one to be sure. Tried to find an employee to say it to. None around. None on the train.
I just sat next to some guy so I'm grand. I'll survive.

Then a family of 4 come on, who have obviously prebooked the 4 seats. They are all occupied apart from 1. Arguments erupt.
There is now 3 people standing on the train who had prebooked seats who don't have seats.


Why does this happen? Why is there no employee on a Friday rush hour train to supervise? Do they double book seats?

were you on the correct time train and did your booking go through? what sometimes happens is people tend to get an earlier or later train as to what they booked but still expect to take up the seat shown on their ticket.

Del2005

coylemj wrote: »

I still don't know why IR don't allow you to book a seat without a reservation.

Say I'd like to travel from Dublin to Cork next Thursday and I do it online so I can pay with my credit card and can either print off the ticket or pick it up from one of the machines in Heuston.

Now just suppose I'm not bothered about having a reserved seat - do you suppose it's possible to avoid being allocated a reserved seat? No.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You are not forced to sit in that seat.

What if the train is full and the only available seat is reserved for someone sitting in a different seat? Not using a reserved seat is nearly as bad as taking one you haven't reserved.

The Moldy Gowl

Seat reserved from ballybroohy to Heuston.
Someone sitting in it again without my name above it.

Hilly Bill

Del2005 wrote: »

What if the train is full and the only available seat is reserved for someone sitting in a different seat? Not using a reserved seat is nearly as bad as taking one you haven't reserved.

You can sit there until its claimed.

Spanish Eyes

Coming back from Westport last week the names were not up on the sign, but there were notices placed on the seats that they were reserved.

That's fine at the start of the journey, I can only imagine if someone had booked a seat from Roscommon or Castlebar etc. Easy to tear them up or put in the bin by someone.

OK from Dublin, the signs were fine. But I'd always try to be there early just in case, which, when you think about it makes a laugh out of reserving in the first place!

But hey, it is Irish Rail, they don't really do customer service anymore.

Imagine not having even ONE staff member on the train to mediate these things. Daft and not good.

LuckyLloyd

You have to claim what's yours. The seat number is always on your ticket in case the display isn't functioning.

The Moldy Gowl

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You have to claim what's yours. The seat number is always on your ticket in case the display isn't functioning.

But what if someone else with the same seat number and their name is displayed is sitting there?

Hilly Bill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Coming back from Westport last week the names were not up on the sign, but there were notices placed on the seats that they were reserved.

That's fine at the start of the journey, I can only imagine if someone had booked a seat from Roscommon or Castlebar etc. Easy to tear them up or put in the bin by someone.

OK from Dublin, the signs were fine. But I'd always try to be there early just in case, which, when you think about it makes a laugh out of reserving in the first place!

But hey, it is Irish Rail, they don't really do customer service anymore.

Imagine not having even ONE staff member on the train to mediate these things. Daft and not good.

Surely grown adults can look after themselves and we dont need ushers on the trains.

Hilly Bill

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

But what if someone else with the same seat number and their name is displayed is sitting there?

Then you are on the wrong train.

beauf

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Then you are on the wrong train.

I think you might be in wrong parallel universe. The whole Maynooth line was stopped for hours recently because there were no appropriate resources in place to deal with one problematic passenger. People won't use public transport if its problematic for them.

LXFlyer

beauf wrote: »

I think you might be in wrong parallel universe. The whole Maynooth line was stopped for hours recently because there were no appropriate resources in place to deal with one problematic passenger. People won't use public transport if its problematic for them.

To be fair that particular instance involved someone apparently with a history of violence, so with no gardai showing up at Ashtown, options were limited.

Or do you think security/police should be on board every train?

beauf

Another time that whole line, was delayed by a swan.

Its abysmal that the train service has no resources (in place) to deal the most trivial of incident to the most serious.

Online bookings aren't "put in the a carriage". It can be different depending on space, and you can choose whichever carriage you want. You might have been on the wrong carriage. Check your email confirmation.

I agree though and had a thread on the same thing myself. The system is a joke.

LXFlyer

beauf wrote: »

Another time that whole line, was delayed by a swan.

Its abysmal that the train service has no resources (in place) to deal the most trivial of incident to the most serious.

Again do you think that people should be sitting around doing nothing to deal with incidents like that?

That's really two severe exceptions and frankly nothing to do with seat reservations.

With regard to seat reservations - it's down to the company to get this right, which they regularly fail to do, leaving people to resolve it themselves and invariably just find an alternative seat.

It shouldn't have to be down to passengers to resolve this. There should in my view be a customer facing member of staff on board every Intercity train, to resolve issues like this and answer any queries that passengers may have. It's simply not good enough for there not to be.

beauf

I'm baffled why you think the only solution to this is to have people sitting around doing nothing. I don't get that mindset at all.

My point was simple, there are no resources in place to deal with the big problems never mind the lesser ones. The implication was that paying for a reserved seat was a trivial matter. I would suggest for many people having to stand for long periods is not a trivial matter. A lot of these trains have minimal facilities (handles, rails) for standing passengers. The trains packed with standing passengers is a normal occurrence. if there was ever a crash it would be carnage.

Getting a name allocated to the right seat is a simple task. But its a simple task beyond the current service. Similarly about delays. Its not unknown to be delayed 20 mins and the first news about why comes from a passengers twitter feed. Only then does IR respond.

I'm not blaming the people on the ground. They don't seem to have any resources to fall back on. These are failings from the top down. That said in general (for me) its a very good service. Just badly under resourced.

These are just an observations from a passenger point of view.

LXFlyer

beauf wrote: »

I'm baffled why you think the only solution to this is to have people sitting around doing nothing. I don't get that mindset at all.

My point was simple, there are no resources in place to deal with the big problems never mind the lesser ones. The implication was that paying for a reserved seat was a trivial matter. I would suggest for many people having to stand for long periods is not a trivial matter. A lot of these trains have minimal facilities (handles, rails) for standing passengers. The trains packed with standing passengers is a normal occurrence. if there was ever a crash it would be carnage.

Getting a name allocated to the right seat is a simple task. But its a simple task beyond the current service.

I don't think seat reservations is a trivial matter and as I posted above I think that there should be a customer facing member of Irish Rail staff on board every Intercity train to deal with customers and any issues that they may have. I was quite clear that the company should get this sorted out.

Unless we decide to do away with walk on fares for Intercity travel, the risk of people having to stand will always be there. I'm not sure that would be a popular decision among the majority of people.

The issue at Ashtown was one for the Gardaí, given the history that this individual had of serial non-payment and (apparently) violence. They were unable to supply manpower to deal with him there, but only at Docklands. Now I'm not sure what you would think that the appropriate thing to do, but in the circumstances I'm not sure that there was much more that could be done.

The swan I don't know about but presumably there was an issue with an nest and as they are a protected species there would be issues with that?

jimmycrackcorm

Hilly Bill wrote:

Surely grown adults can look after themselves and we dont need ushers on the trains.

Soccer players are adults,, why need referees? I think this situation is bizarre when you consider is no different going to the cinema after pre booking your seat. It's an occasional occurrence to have to get someone move if they are in your seat so why is there such an issue on trains?

dissed doc

Is the system still weirdly personalised with the name of the person? I find that always that odd and a bit creepish.

It would be more effective to simply have the section saying
"Reserved: Limerick Junction - Dublin", or something similar. The passenger name should not be displayed publicly, given the litigious and paranoid nature of many in society.

beauf

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't think seat reservations is a trivial matter and as I posted above I think that there should be someone on board every Intercity train to deal with customers to deal with the issue. I was quite clear that the company should get this sorted out.

Unless we decide to do away with walk on fares for Intercity travel, the risk of people having to stand will always be there. I'm not sure that would be a popular decision among the majority of people.

The issue at Ashtown was one for the Gardaí, given the history that this individual had of serial non-payment and (apparently) violence. They were unable to supply manpower to deal with him there, but only at Docklands. Now I'm not sure what you would think that the appropriate thing to do, but in the circumstances I'm not sure that there was much more that could be done.

The swan I don't know about but presumably there was an issue with an nest and as they are a protected species there would be issues with that?

It pretty obvious there are no resources to deal with any of these issues. It pointless to stop an entire line, or have a reservation system at all which causes disputes, when none of it can be enforced anyway and its largely ignored.

Spanish Eyes

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Surely grown adults can look after themselves and we dont need ushers on the trains.

You surely cannot be that dismissive.

Grown adults are sometimes worse than children when it comes to issues like this.

That is where a mediator is so necessary. And it solves a lot of problems. Bring back the staff member! It is just so easy to do.

Passengers will in general respect the view of the IR member above the person they are having a barney with. That is the reality. So why has an IR presence on trains been offloaded?

IR don't give a dam. Ask Barry Kenny.

LXFlyer

beauf wrote: »

It pretty obvious there are no resources to deal with any of these issues. It pointless to stop an entire line, or have a reservation system at all which causes disputes, when none of it can be enforced anyway and its largely ignored.

Let's be clear here - "an entire line" wasn't stopped - one train was terminated at Ashtown - let's not get carried away.

The issue with that is again that the Gardaí were not able to deal with it - that's a far wider issue.

Far from ideal I agree with you, but I'm not sure what else could be done in the circumstances as he could have been a threat to the rest of the passengers on that train.

Spanish Eyes

dissed doc wrote: »

Is the system still weirdly personalised with the name of the person? I find that always that odd and a bit creepish.

It would be more effective to simply have the section saying
"Reserved: Limerick Junction - Dublin", or something similar. The passenger name should not be displayed publicly, given the litigious and paranoid nature of many in society.

You can opt to put the reservation number rather than your name up on the system. When it works lol.

CINCLANTFLT

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Yes. I was in the 'a' carriage where online booking gets put


I didn't ask them because they all looked together and I didn't want to create a scene to displace one person knowing I would at least get a seat anyway becuase I pre booked a seat.
I did not know standing existed at that point..


I got a seat behind them so I wasn't technically put out but it's still annoying.

Nope... Not all booked seats are in the A carriage... Looks like you were in the wrong carriage... I had d35 booked recently and someone asked me to move... I pointer them to carriage B where their seat was...

The Moldy Gowl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Online bookings aren't "put in the a carriage". It can be different depending on space, and you can choose whichever carriage you want. You might have been on the wrong carriage. Check your email confirmation.

I agree though and had a thread on the same thing myself. The system is a joke.

Just checked my bookings. Were both for a carriage. Even watched down to the c carriage just to make sure I don't book wrong or was moved and not told.

It's just a trivial annoyance and we are lucky the trains are rarely packed so there will always be a seat.
I'm just precious and want the window seat I booked so I can play on the laptop.

beauf

lxflyer wrote: »

Let's be clear here - "an entire line" wasn't stopped - one train was terminated at Ashtown - let's not get carried away....

Train was stopped for an hour or more. I dunno I left at that point. It not a bus where you can overtake the one in front.

Pretzill

Not this again I nearly always book online and because of that must reserve a seat - you can reserve a seat in any carraige - this can become slightly problematic if you book 31A and are looking in B or C because sometimes A starts at the first carraige facing the journey direction and sometimes it's the last! However normally the carraige is clearly marked on the outside of the train and inside the carraige on the moving sign above the doors.

You can use a name or a number as your marker and the seat number is clearly marked on your ticket -

What happens sometimes is the display hasn't been turned on and someone sits in the reserved space through no fault of their own - As the reservee you could show your ticket to the passenger but I would wager if there are other seats available most people wouldn't want to unseat someone. If there isn't a seat available afaik you are entitled to a refund on that leg of the journey -

I find the seat reservation system works most of the time in my case nearly all of the time and it's very handy on a busy train to have a seat guaranteed in advance!

feelgoodinc27

How would you prove someone wouldn't vacate your seat, if you try to claim a refund? In the case where there isn't a member of staff in the carriages.

Spanish Eyes

If IR want to continue reservations, they should have a staff member on board to sort out any problems with it.

But they do not have that.

Why is that?

Got it.... they don;t give a fk.

Wild Garlic

feelgoodinc27 wrote: »

How would you prove someone wouldn't vacate your seat, if you try to claim a refund? In the case where there isn't a member of staff in the carriages.

CCTV?

Spanish Eyes

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Irish Rail should scrap the system of reserved seating. You book a ticket online/buy a ticket at the station, you get on the train, you find a seat that's free. End of. No free seats, prepare to stand.

It is coming to that alright.

But for instance, my mother uses a wheelchair, and we use the Cork train to visit her relatives now and then. It is great. Disabled loos and ramps and all the rest of it. So much easier than driving TBH.

But I have seen able bodied in the seats opposite the wheelchair space. Which we booked to be with mother, and there was hell to pay to get them to move!

As if travelling with a wheelchair user wasn't difficult enough. But anyway...

looksee

I boarded a train at Waterford last week. We boarded early and I checked the overhead name sign before sitting down. Someone came along and apologetically said it was their seat, the name board was still not lit up, but I did not argue and I moved, there were plenty of seats. But now the question was, how to find a non-reserved seat? I took a chance and it was ok, but the reserved seats should be shown as soon as the train is boarding.

I have no problem with reserved seats, and people should claim the seat they have reserved or it causes even more confusion, but the system must be properly managed.

Spanish Eyes

looksee wrote: »

I took a chance and it was ok, but the reserved seats should be shown as soon as the train is boarding.

I have no problem with reserved seats, and people should claim the seat they have reserved or it causes even more confusion, but the system must be properly managed.

There is not enough publicity about reserved seats from IR.

So those who know the drill are actually doing IR's work for them!

Hilly Bill

beauf wrote: »

I think you might be in wrong parallel universe. The whole Maynooth line was stopped for hours recently because there were no appropriate resources in place to deal with one problematic passenger. People won't use public transport if its problematic for them.

That has nothing to do with the post i replied to. Who

Hilly Bill

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Soccer players are adults,, why need referees? I think this situation is bizarre when you consider is no different going to the cinema after pre booking your seat. It's an occasional occurrence to have to get someone move if they are in your seat so why is there such an issue on trains?

People have a voice of their own.

Laneyh

beauf wrote: »

Another time that whole line, was delayed by a swan.

Its abysmal that the train service has no resources (in place) to deal the most trivial of incident to the most serious.

That has nothing to do with the reservation system.
There probably could be improvements made on reporting incidents along the network so that staff can respond to it
but in fairness even motorways shut down / are impacted by swans, or other animals on the loose.

Hilly Bill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If IR want to continue reservations, they should have a staff member on board to sort out any problems with it.

But they do not have that.

Why is that?

Got it.... they don;t give a fk.

I doubt it.

Hilly Bill

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There is not enough publicity about reserved seats from IR.

So those who know the drill are actually doing IR's work for them!

What publicity would you like?

ghogie91

I reserve a seat on the train because I have to book with a company credit card to instead of waiting weeks to reclaim expenses.

Radio5

I travel on the train from Kerry to Dublin as I find it easier than driving.

There are a number of problems I've encountered. Firstly the display showing the reservation number or name isn't switched on and remains off for the duration of the journey.

I have a ticket showing a reserved seat and yes, if there's someone sitting in it when I arrive, I politely show it to them. Sometimes they will accept it and move without complaint. Often times, they will say "Well it's not up on display anywhere so this seat isn't reserved. I got here first and I'm not moving" or a slightly stronger version of the above. Sometimes I stand my ground and they do eventually move.

Sometimes, I judge it better for my own personal safety to move on to another carriage and try and find a seat.People can become quite aggressive about seats, particularly on a busy service or the last service of the day. It happens. I am fit and able bodied and I move on but I appreciate it isn't easy for those with mobility issues/older people/or those with families/children.

If I do have a problem, I mention it to ticket checker on the train (if there is one) or if I'm arriving in Dublin, to the person at the gate in Heuston. Theres always an IR official or 3 at the gate, even if you're checking your ticket via the machine.

Sometimes you reserve a seat and, particularly if you have to change trains , say at Mallow, you board another train and the carriage, let's say D doesn't exist. So your reserved seat doesn't exist and you have to go and find another one. Happens quite a bit.

The solution? Let every single ticket sold, be it online, at a ticket machine or from a person in an office have a seat number. You know from the minute you buy your ticket what your seat no is. So every seat is reserved if you like, no matter how you purchase it.

Michael D Not Higgins

Radio5 wrote: »

The solution? Let every single ticket sold, be it online, at a ticket machine or from a person in an office have a seat number. You know from the minute you buy your ticket what your seat no is. So every seat is reserved if you like, no matter how you purchase it.

What about season tickets?

beauf

"Its abysmal that the train service has no resources (in place) to deal the most trivial of incident to the most serious."

Laneyh wrote: »

That has nothing to do with the reservation system.
There probably could be improvements made on reporting incidents along the network so that staff can respond to it
but in fairness even motorways shut down / are impacted by swans, or other animals on the loose.

Seat reservations is just one of a range of issues (from trivial to serious) that there is no system or process in place to deal with it. That one example was a swan is irrelevant.

beauf

Radio5 wrote: »

....The solution? Let every single ticket sold, be it online, at a ticket machine or from a person in an office have a seat number. You know from the minute you buy your ticket what your seat no is. So every seat is reserved if you like, no matter how you purchase it....

I assume you mean on trains where there is reserved seating. That wouldn't work for ticket that cover multiple journeys and commuters.

Also on some routes (that I use) its normal (for me) to get seat about 20% of the time. Its normal that 50% of the passengers are standing. Its been like this for decades. That's just normal for busy train networks, worldwide.

Of course if staff have no means to penalise or forcibly remove a passenger from a reserved seat they've not reserved. Any system you implement will be ineffectual. Its only through people goodwill that it has any meaning.

lanos

Radio5 wrote: »

the display showing the reservation number or name isn't switched on and remains off for the duration of the journey.

I have a ticket showing a reserved seat and yes, if there's someone sitting in it when I arrive, I politely show it to them. Sometimes they will accept it and move without complaint. Often times, they will say "Well it's not up on display anywhere so this seat isn't reserved. I got here first and I'm not

Personally, i would probably move in a situation like that
but suppose i move to another seat and another passenger approaches me with the same issue.
i could potentially be moving seat at every stop.

probably safer to have my own reservation always

OldMrBrennan83

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