What to do when your not given your change?

freshpopcorn

I was getting a take away ealier. It was a new take away. Part of a small change.
Ordered my food and paid with cash. The girl might have being nervous/confused. She had to ask for help with the till. I handed her €15 and should have got €1.25 change. She just walked away from the till and at first I thought she was getting change from another till/office.
She then started serving other people.
A lady then landed in saying there was a problem with her order. It was easily fixed. I said to the girl you never gave me my change. She said oh I did. It was €2.75 and what drinks dinks did you want. I said coke she handed me my drinks and asked me what dips did I bbq and garlic mayo. She handed me my food and dips and walked away. I checked the bag and there was loads of dips in the bag to start with. I just wanted to get home to my food.
What should you do in this situation?

DoYouEvenLift

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I was getting a take away ealier. It was a new take away. Part of a small change.
Ordered my food and paid with cash. The girl might have being nervous/confused. She had to ask for help with the till. I handed her €15 and should have got €1.25 change. She just walked away from the till and at first I thought she was getting change from another till/office.
She then started serving other people.
A lady then landed in saying there was a problem with her order. It was easily fixed. I said to the girl you never gave me my change. She said oh I did. It was €2.75 and what drinks dinks did you want. I said coke she handed me my drinks and asked me what dips did I bbq and garlic mayo. She handed me my food and dips and walked away. I checked the bag and there was loads of dips in the bag to start with. I just wanted to get home to my food.
What should you do in this situation?

Use card because cash is dirty

challengemaster

As there's no legal requirement for a company to actually give change, you should pay the correct amount (and no more) in the first place.

L1011

Don't shop there again. Only comeback, and it works.

ThisRegard

challengemaster wrote: »

you should pay the correct amount (and no more) in the first place.

Well that's nonsense.

Diamond Doll

I'd probably have stood my ground and asked to speak to her supervisor/manager if necessary.

locum-motion

challengemaster wrote: »

As there's no legal requirement for a company to actually give change, you should pay the correct amount (and no more) in the first place.

Have you a source for this rather extraordinary claim?

Mick Murdock

It sounds like the cashier was a mix of nervous and a bit thick.. Personally I'd put it down to that and move on but asking for a supervisor or demanding it would be fair enough too. It's most definitely not company policy so I wouldn't blame them necessarily.

IMO card transactions are nowhere near fast enough in this country for people to pay everything by card. I'm glad a lot of shops place €5 limits on it but I think it should be closer to €10.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

challengemaster wrote: »

As there's no legal requirement for a company to actually give change, you should pay the correct amount (and no more) in the first place.

Possibly the most ridiculous post of the day.

Have you a source for this?

L1011

Find the legal requirement to give change... There isn't one

NicoleW85

It's not a legal requirement to give change??? Where did that come from? I've worked in retail for over 10 years and I must say I've NEVER heard that!! How many people have the correct change at all times? Ridiculous statement...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This is a very complicated element of contract law but it does boil down to a retailer not being legally obliged to give change. The onus is on the buyer to provide the correct money to meet the contract. Change is only given due to standard business practice. A parking meter or toll does not give change for an overpayment of the agreed price for instance.

NicoleW85

I can understand machines not giving change, but humans - legal or not - that's just bad form.

Dial Hard

Mick Murdock wrote: »

IMO card transactions are nowhere near fast enough in this country for people to pay everything by card. I'm glad a lot of shops place €5 limits on it but I think it should be closer to €10.

Contactless payments are changing that, though.

And a shop can't actually legally set or enforce a minimum limit on card transactions, for those of you who may need to use their card for a small amount occasionally.

If they do, they're in breach of the IPSO terms and conditions, which all retailers who take card payments are signed up to. And I'm pretty sure the CCPC also incorporated it into consumer law recently enough. My sister is a director there, I'll ask her for the specifics later.

Mick Murdock

How commonplace are contactless machines in Ireland now? I think I've encountered them in a couple of chain stores so far (O' Briens sandwiches and Penneys I think) but I use cash for most small transactions anyway. All convenience stores should have them by now but I haven't encountered any.

Wasn't aware that there was a law against minimum card transactions. More silly pro-consumer anti-business laws. Credit card terminals charges are extortionate.

delahuntv

locum-motion wrote: »

Have you a source for this rather extraordinary claim?

NicoleW85 wrote: »

It's not a legal requirement to give change??? Where did that come from? I've worked in retail for over 10 years and I must say I've NEVER heard that!! How many people have the correct change at all times? Ridiculous statement...

It is true, but as above its a small part of contract law and is rarely actually used - though dublin bus don't provide change, instead they give you a claim voucher or something.

A retailer who would use that law would find itself closed very quickly, so "resonableness" (yes, very much used legal word) comes into play instead. In the OP's case, it probably just a ditsy staff member who hasn't been trained properly. Just make sure someone else deals with you next time or be extra vigilant if she's there.

keithclancy

Dial Hard wrote: »

Contactless payments are changing that, though.

And a shop can't actually legally set or enforce a minimum limit on card transactions, for those of you who may need to use their card for a small amount occasionally.

If they do, they're in breach of the IPSO terms and conditions, which all retailers who take card payments are signed up to. And I'm pretty sure the CCPC also incorporated it into consumer law recently enough. My sister is a director there, I'll ask her for the specifics later.

Here in NL it's common to pay for everything by card.
I went to Amsterdam last weekend from Eindhoven, didn't have or take out any cash from Friday until Monday.

P. Breathnach

NicoleW85 wrote: »

I can understand machines not giving change, but humans - legal or not - that's just bad form.

It might be bad form - but it's not illegal.

There can be situations where a retailer cannot give change because the till doesn't contain enough small-value notes and coins. Can you insist on tendering €50 to buy a newspaper and demand change?

jimmii

P. Breathnach wrote: »

NicoleW85 wrote: »

I can understand machines not giving change, but humans - legal or not - that's just bad form.

It might be bad form - but it's not illegal.

There can be situations where a retailer cannot give change because the till doesn't contain enough small-value notes and coins. Can you insist on tendering €50 to buy a newspaper and demand change?

Retailers aren't obliged to it is at their discretion as to whether they accept it or not.

L1011

Mick Murdock wrote: »

How commonplace are contactless machines in Ireland now? I think I've encountered them in a couple of chain stores so far (O' Briens sandwiches and Penneys I think) but I use cash for most small transactions anyway. All convenience stores should have them by now but I haven't encountered any.

Wasn't aware that there was a law against minimum card transactions. More silly pro-consumer anti-business laws. Credit card terminals charges are extortionate.

Quite common at this stage. Generally - not always! - if a machine has a large, colour screen on the pin pad its contactless. These often don't have the logo either, stupidly. The older machines can often have an addon protrusion at the top that will have a massive logo on it.

Lots of places don't have a clue with them, though. Only seen it actively encouraged in one shop, a Subway branch, as the retailer costs are lower.

TallGlass

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Wasn't aware that there was a law against minimum card transactions. More silly pro-consumer anti-business laws. Credit card terminals charges are extortionate.

It's true, there shouldnt be a set amount on card transactions.

jimmii

NicoleW85 wrote: »

It's not a legal requirement to give change??? Where did that come from? I've worked in retail for over 10 years and I must say I've NEVER heard that!! How many people have the correct change at all times? Ridiculous statement...

When the retailer gives someone the total that is an offer for what they are selling when the customer hands you the note that could be considered their offer of payment which the retailer can then accept or reject. No one would ever do that as it would be ridiculous but thats how it works much like how a retailer can accept a lower offer than displayed for goods the customer can also make a higher offer at the till its really just an auction until a price can be agreed on luckily we don't operate like that!

NicoleW85

P. Breathnach wrote:

Can you insist on tendering €50 to buy a newspaper and demand change?

Absolutely. I'd be embarrassed if it was first thing in the morning and the vendor didn't have a large amount of change, but it's legal tender at the end of the day. Anyway, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it

delahuntv

NicoleW85 wrote: »

Absolutely. I'd be embarrassed if it was first thing in the morning and the vendor didn't have a large amount of change, but it's legal tender at the end of the day. Anyway, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it

Oh please don't ever use the "its legal tender" argument. Legal tender must only be accepted when a debt has occured. In a retail transaction, no debt has occurred, hence a retailer may insist on saying they only accept 50c coins if they wish - it is their choice.

Most retailers will not accept €200 or €500 notes. Many won't accept €100. THEIR choice and the "legal tender" argument does not apply in the slightest.

jimmii

NicoleW85 wrote: »

Absolutely. I'd be embarrassed if it was first thing in the morning and the vendor didn't have a large amount of change, but it's legal tender at the end of the day. Anyway, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it

They aren't obliged to accept it or not no matter whether what you are offering is legal tender or not. It is at the retailers discretion whether they accept what you offer not the customers.

runawaybishop

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Wasn't aware that there was a law against minimum card transactions. More silly pro-consumer anti-business laws. Credit card terminals charges are extortionate.

They cannot insist on a minimum transaction amount but they can charge a transaction fee.

user1842

There is no law against not accepting card transactions for low amounts.

It is however against VISA and MasterCard scheme rules that the merchant signs up to when they first start accepting cards (VISA and MasterCard will never follow this up with small merchants).

IPSO no longer exists and had no rules about VISA and MasterCard. Their only remit was the LASER card scheme which is now dead.

The cost of accepting cards varies wildly. Big merchants can negotiate better deals with acquirers(a bank or financial institution that processes credit or debit card payments on behalf of a merchant). Small merchants tend to pay more due to low volumes.

Card charges per transaction for merchants are broken down as follows:

Interchange = money that goes straight to the bank that issued the purchasing debit or credit card. Usually this is 10c for debit cards transactions over €15, 5c between €2 and €15 and 1c under €2 (under €2 has to be contactless). For credit cards its 0.55% (will be 0.3%, EU directive). Assuming VISA card scheme and chip and pin.

Scheme fee = money that goes to VISA or MasterCard for each transaction. Based on volume (higher volume = lower fee). Usually very low, under 1c per transaction.

Acquirer margin = the money the acquirer tacks on every transaction for their costs and profit.

I do not include fixed monthly costs as these costs do not pose a barrier to accepting cards for low value payments as the merchant pays them anyway.

Now any merchant can look at their card bill and see if their acquirer is charging them excessively. If they are ask for a reduction or change acquirer.

They should be no reason why merchants do not accept card payments for low value transactions especially now that contactless has arrived.

stronglikebull

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What should you do in this situation?

You should ask for it again, and you shouldn't leave without it. If you have already left without it, then you've accepted the situation, and there's nothing you can do about it now.

freshpopcorn

Thanks for advice.
I was just wondering what I do if something similar happened again. I'd go back to the place again to be honest. They were just very busy and I say the girl was just frazzled.

jimmii

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Thanks for advice.
I was just wondering what I do if something similar happened again. I'd go back to the place again to be honest. They were just very busy and I say the girl was just frazzled.

Happened to me not so long ago in a similar sort of places. Annoying when it happens luckily the girl realised her mistake and was quick to give me the correct change. Tricky situation if they say that they did give you the right change though.

AudreyHepburn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I was getting a take away ealier. It was a new take away. Part of a small change.
Ordered my food and paid with cash. The girl might have being nervous/confused. She had to ask for help with the till. I handed her €15 and should have got €1.25 change. She just walked away from the till and at first I thought she was getting change from another till/office.
She then started serving other people.
A lady then landed in saying there was a problem with her order. It was easily fixed. I said to the girl you never gave me my change. She said oh I did. It was €2.75 and what drinks dinks did you want. I said coke she handed me my drinks and asked me what dips did I bbq and garlic mayo. She handed me my food and dips and walked away. I checked the bag and there was loads of dips in the bag to start with. I just wanted to get home to my food.
What should you do in this situation?

It sounds like the girl was a new starter and probably a bit frazzled.....it was a mistake, they happen, just leave it be and move on OP.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It sounds like the girl was a new starter and probably a bit frazzled.....it was a mistake, they happen, just leave it be and move on OP.

Yes, I think he got that.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Thanks for advice.
I was just wondering what I do if something similar happened again. I'd go back to the place again to be honest. They were just very busy and I say the girl was just frazzled.

goat2

Techmaster wrote: »

Possibly the most ridiculous post of the day.

Have you a source for this?

there must be a legal requirement, at that rate we all would be done left right and center,
i have worked in the catering trade, and if someone came up to me and said i had not given them back their change, of course i would correct the problem by giving them their change and apologizing, it is not good for business, and i would not like it done to me.

goat2

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It sounds like the girl was a new starter and probably a bit frazzled.....it was a mistake, they happen, just leave it be and move on OP.

so the business is up and the customer is overcharged and out of pocket

slimjimmc

goat2 wrote: »

so the business is up and the customer is overcharged and out of pocket

Yes, by €1.25. Not the end of the world.

looksee

goat2 wrote: »

there must be a legal requirement, at that rate we all would be done left right and center,
i have worked in the catering trade, and if someone came up to me and said i had not given them back their change, of course i would correct the problem by giving them their change and apologizing, it is not good for business, and i would not like it done to me.

Of course you would, but that is nothing to do with legal requirements. Can you imagine how quickly word would go round - don't shop in x's they don't give you change!

Sam Kade

slimjimmc wrote: »

Yes, by €1.25. Not the end of the world.

Sure it isn't but the staff member needs to be pulled up over it.

dudara

goat2 wrote: »

there must be a legal requirement, at that rate we all would be done left right and center,

Actually, as already has been discussed, there is no legal requirement to provide change.

i have worked in the catering trade, and if someone came up to me and said i had not given them back their change, of course i would correct the problem by giving them their change and apologizing, it is not good for business, and i would not like it done to me.

However, imagine how the world would work if change wasn't given. Therefore, it's become accepted practice to offer change. Any business that didn't would quickly be closed due to lack of custom.

1983211

I always use credit card - since there is no transaction fee and pay it off every month. I don't remember when I used cash last time and I don't go to places that don't accept cards. I even pay 22c bag levy with credit card ... no issues with change ... If I could pay my rent with credit card I would

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

1983211 wrote: »

I always use credit card - since there is no transaction fee and pay it off every month. I don't remember when I used cash last time and I don't go to places that don't accept cards. I even pay 22c bag levy with credit card ... no issues with change ... If I could pay my rent with credit card I would

You'd use a credit card to buy a newspaper?

1983211

Dayana Some Lumber wrote: »

You'd use a credit card to buy a newspaper?

I would pay for pack of chewing gums with it .. when I stand somewhere waiting to pay and there is somebody in front of me looking for a change in their bag and counting coins it drives me crazy. With card its much much faster, and the only shop which had limit of 10 euro for card transaction was Centra so I don't go there .. not sure if they still have limit tho

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

You wouldn't do much shopping in the small shops around here. And I'd do my nut in the queue behind you too.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Mr.S wrote: »

If the machine is slow, that's the retailers fault for not investing in a decent terminal!

Up to date machines that connect with WiFi / 4G etc are pretty much instant with your pin, let alone the contactless.

Card transactions all the way.

Well, I have yet to come across any pretty much instant terminals anywhere.

Midnight Sundance

Dayana Some Lumber wrote: »

Well, I have yet to come across any pretty much instant terminals anywhere.

Try the petrol station on the quays in Dublin. By time time you've your finger off the enter button it's gone through. Practically instant. A lot quicker than counting coins anyways.

Get Real

goat2 wrote: »

and if someone came up to me and said i had not given them back their change, of course i would correct the problem by giving them their change and apologizing, it is not good for business, and i would not like it done to me.

Completely agree, and also with the OP. However just being devils advocate here because I used to work in retail and the following was a frequent occurence-

person buys something for a euro or 2. Hands in a 5er. Comes back- "I gave you 50 but you only gave me 3 change" do you just take their word for it and take 45 euro out of the till and hand it over no questions

Not being negative, its easy to make such a mistake. But one has to look out for ones own job too as there are either (a) people who genuinely believe theyve handed you 50eu when they havent or (b) petty con men who make a habit of doing that in different shops. They just need to be lucky once to make 45quid.

Now, with such a low amount of change in this case its irrelevant. Luckily where I worked we could count the till right there to see if they did hand a 50, and we had cctv that could zoom to the detail on one's shoelaces as back up.

I guess my point is that in 90percent of cases the customer is genuine. But what if that staff member is unfortunate enough to meet a person trying to do them without good cctv etc

In the OPs case, yeah, I'd give the change back, and the majority of customers, such as the OP are genuine. However the majority of shop staff are too. When I worked in retail, would I have risked my job to do someone for a few quid at the risk of losing my job? Of course not. Rarely is there any malicious intent in the short changing of people. 5,10, even a hundred quid in return for getting fired?

Not worth the risk, aside from morals. Unless you worked in a small enough shop where everyone was stupid and mean enough to be in on it.

AudreyHepburn

goat2 wrote: »

so the business is up and the customer is overcharged and out of pocket

Out of pocket by a little over a euro.....hardly broke the bank.

The girl was new, she made a mistake, we've all done it, she doesn't deserve a reprimand for it.

AudreyHepburn

Sam Kade wrote: »

Sure it isn't but the staff member needs to be pulled up over it.

No she doesn't.....she was new and made a mistake....let's not act as though none of us have made a mistake