Match play ruling

Tony_Montana

A guy conceded a hole to me and agreed on the next hole I was 1 up and shook my hand on 18th.
He then queried to the captain that he shouldn't have conceded the hole the next day.
The club then ruled days later that the player gets to take the putt again (without me witness) so no clue where it was taken from,to determine the outcome of the game.
Surely the rules don't allow this?

ForeRight

This is a joke?

Surely???

Has to be a piss take!!!!!!!


If not........

New club required asap

frost53

A concession in matchplay cannot be taken back, unless a serious rules infringement warrants committee action.
What club are you

ForeRight

frost53 wrote: »

A concession in matchplay cannot be taken back, unless a serious rules infringement warrants committee action.
What club are you

This is fact!

You concede you lose

Tony_Montana

The new club is needed and it's serious.
Feel victimized in my own club for 18 years . I need rules to state them in a meeting

pistol_75

Feel free to contact the GUI about it as well if your own club won't support you. It is an open and shut case.

Tony_Montana

Tony_Montana wrote: »

The new club is needed and it's serious.
Feel victimized in my own club for 18 years . I need rules to state them in a meeting

Rule 2-4

A player may concede a match at any time prior to the start or conclusion of that match.
A player may concede a hole at any time prior to the start or conclusion of that hole.
A player may concede his opponent's next stroke at any time, provided the opponent's ball is at rest. The opponent is considered to have holed out with his next stroke, and the ball may be removed by either side.
A concession may not be declined or withdrawn.

rocky911

pistol_75 wrote: »

Feel free to contact the GUI about it as well if your own club won't support you. It is an open and shut case.

Id be straight onto your local branch of GUI.. feck that for a game of solders

Senna

That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Even if some ruling had to be made, it would be to replay the match, not for a player to re-play the putt from some arbitrary point.
Please give us more details of what exactly happened.

frost53

Don't expect too much from the GUI. They usually shy away from making any decision in club disputes.
Look up R&A...Decisions on The Rules of Golf...section 2-4,as already stated here.
Covers all contingencies.
As a matter of interest, what club are you in.

JIdontknow

This is crazy!! If that was the case look at the ryder cup, can they withdraw a gimme and get them to putt it the next day...

http://golf.about.com/cs/rulesofgolf/a/rule2.htm

The only thing I can think of is that your opponent is claiming you didn't give him all the information or informed him you're off a different handicap (Or at least told the powers that be that this was the case). If all was above board on your side then there is no issue.

Irrelevant of that I have never ever heard of someone getting to take a shot / putt again. I mean for example, even though its incorrect, say he did get to take the putt again, the flag is in different place, do the greenkeepers have to come move the flag for one putt then move it back to where it was that day, and how does he know exactly where his ball was... the fact the committee is saying this is worrying!! sounds like your opponent is close to the committee members...

Rikand

The rules of golf in pdf format

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Anchoring/~/media/RandA/Related%20Documents/2011/2012Rules2/DecisionsOnRulesOfGolf.ashx

Page 28 of 639 seems to cover a lot of the main points but basically. If you both agreed that the hole was conceded AT THE TIME, then it was conceded and the match stands! i havent found your particular case yet, but the precedent seems to be there.

We have a pretty high level rules official in the club, he might be out there this evening and I could double check with him for ya if needs be.

Rikand

Angela Creamy Thumbscrew wrote: »

Rule 2-4

That covers it, in every single rule I have read pertaining to rule 2-4. If you concede anything, tough ****. The concession was made, you dont get it back.

Rikand

frost53 wrote: »

Don't expect too much from the GUI. They usually shy away from making any decision in club disputes.
Look up R&A...Decisions on The Rules of Golf...section 2-4,as already stated here.
Covers all contingencies.
As a matter of interest, what club are you in.

I'm not a mod, but naming/shaming clubs is probably not a good thing on boards

Tony_Montana

Rikand wrote: »

I'm not a mod, but naming/shaming clubs is probably not a good thing on boards

Thanks for the information so far everyone.
Yes I don't want to mention any names.
what I've been told by someone in the club, the other player is claiming that he didn't concede the hole but the player said to me lets move on on the 7th. Then on the 8th agreed I'm 1 up and then shook hands at the end then sent in a request next day. Surely these things need to happen at the time of the event
I'll get into all details at another time when I get time

charlieIRL

Under no circumstances are you to name the club, thanks

mike12

Tony_Montana wrote: »

Thanks for the information so far everyone.
Yes I don't want to mention any names.
what I've been told by someone in the club, the other player is claiming that he didn't concede the hole but the player said to me lets move on on the 7th. Then on the 8th agreed I'm 1 up and then shook hands at the end then sent in a request next day. Surely these things need to happen at the time of the event
I'll get into all details at another time when I get time

What had happened on the 7th up to that point. Did he think u had only hit 3 shots he had played 5 so he goes lets move on.
Then he realizes u have taken a drop and played 5 as well.

Tony_Montana

mike12 wrote: »

What had happened on the 7th up to that point. Did he think u had only hit 3 shots he had played 5 so he goes lets move on.
Then he realizes u have taken a drop and played 5 as well.

No nothing like that. I broke no rule

Hang on wait a sec...

This happened on the 7th? So he's going to head out to the 7th and retake a putt? And then they're just going to change the result of the 7th hole and that's it?

That is an absolutely mad thing to do. It would change the whole dynamic of the round/match, there's no way you can just say the exact same thing would have happened of every subsequent hole.

Telecaster58

We don't need to know what club made this decision but was the rules official Vijay Singh?

Boskowski

charlieIRL wrote: »

Under no circumstances are you to name the club, thanks

I know we're not supposed to discuss moderation on thread. But seriously...why? Isn't this kind of cr@pping ourselves over 'the lawsuit' becoming ridiculous? What happened to free speech? Every time I read these [SNIP] things or comments like yours I kinda cringe inside.

mike12

Something must have happened on the hole for him to now think he had a putt for a half.

mike12

Something must have happened on the hole for him to now think he had a putt for a half.

ForeRight

OP you seem a bit sketchy about exactly what happened?


Give us the exact details

tonc76

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95949231

I'd say you need to stay away from match plays in future!

ForeRight

tonc76 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95949231

I'd say you need to stay away from match plays in future!

Great spot lol

rocky911

Strange happenings down Dungarvan direction to be fair..:L

Axel Lamp

That club has some strange practices

SaveOurLyric

Strange practices indeed. Or out and out wrong ones. Someone needs to send it and its members a few copies of the rules of golf.

OP, is this the same competition as the first question ? Were you not both disqualified for that one ?

SaveOurLyric

Boskowski wrote: »

I know we're not supposed to discuss moderation on thread. But seriously...why? Isn't this kind of cr@pping ourselves over 'the lawsuit' becoming ridiculous? What happened to free speech? Every time I read these [SNIP] things or comments like yours I kinda cringe inside.

Ridiculous alright. A man cant say what club he is a member of ?

Axel Lamp

I had a quick peek at Tony's posting history and any posts in regional forums are in the Waterford forum...... Seems to post about Dungarvan a bit.

tayto lover

Is the OP just having us on?

PARlance

tayto lover wrote: »

Is the OP just having us on?

I dunno but if this turns out to be a monthly thing we could create a mini series:
Tony Montanya starring in Matchplay Mischief.. I have the theme tune in my head.

Boskowski

PARlance wrote: »

I dunno but if this turns out to be a monthly thing we could create a mini series:
Tony Montanya starring in Matchplay Mischief.. I have the theme tune in my head.

Oh :eek:

@charlieIRL: just ignore me ok?

Keano

Boskowski wrote: »

Oh :eek:

@charlieIRL: just ignore me ok?

We will but next time it will be a warning.

Tony_Montana

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Strange practices indeed. Or out and out wrong ones. Someone needs to send it and its members a few copies of the rules of golf.

OP, is this the same competition as the first question ? Were you not both disqualified for that one ?

This is the same game and I've played match play for years without a situation.
It was dark we were level on 18 and decided to play the next day.
The other player has gone to next round.
I don't mind if we were disqualified for this but rematches happen all the time at the club including the final of this singles matchplay 2 years ago.
I was told that the gui were handling the case which was untrue. Having rang the GUI official they only make recommendations to the club not rulings in these cases and that I needed to take the matter with the club as they really only deal with the club in these instances.
I'm up against a brick wall with friendship. The honourary secretary who Was handling the case requested we play first hole sudden death. It was dismissed. He has since resigned over the handling of this.
I will get into every detail of this soon but first I have a meeting with the club so I'll see what they have to say first before giving all the details public.

Tony_Montana

I've never been in even an argument before let alone a dispute and to be honest I'm heart broken.
Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this and report back some good news.
Delighted to have some support from boards members thanks guys

Norfolk Enchants_

Tony_Montana wrote: »

I've never been in even an argument before let alone a dispute and to be honest I'm heart broken.
Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this and report back some good news.
Delighted to have some support from boards members thanks guys

Tony you need educate yourself and learn the basics about matchplay, otherwise like above and previously you'll leave yourself wide open to been walked on.
The two main rules in Matchplay are, like someone else mentioned above, a concession can not be declined or withdrawn, i.e. if you or your opponent concedes the next stroke or hole, then it can not be declined or withdrawn, it's a black and white situation, regardless what happens after the concession.
Secondly and most importantly in matchplay, once you tee off from the next teeing ground or leave the green in the case of the 18th or last hole, then the result of the preious hole stands, again this is black and white and is not open to intrepretation.

Tony_Montana

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Tony you need educate yourself and learn the basics about matchplay, otherwise like above and previously you'll leave yourself wide open to been walked on.
The two main rules in Matchplay are, like someone else mentioned above, a concession can not be declined or withdrawn, i.e. if you or your opponent concedes the next stroke or hole, then it can not be declined or withdrawn, it's a black and white situation, regardless what happens after the concession.
Secondly and most importantly in matchplay, once you tee off from the next teeing ground or leave the green in the case of the 18th or last hole, then the result of the preious hole stands, again this is black and white and is not open to intrepretation.

Perfect well then they have no grounds to knock me out because of the 7th hole as the hole was conceded to me . And everything was agreed there after

Tony_Montana

for a claim to be valid, the claimant must notify his opponent (i) that he
is making a claim or wants a ruling and, (ii) the facts of the situation. he
must do so within the time required by Rule 2-5.

What is the required time do the rules state?

Tony_Montana

Tony_Montana wrote: »

for a claim to be valid, the claimant must notify his opponent (i) that he
is making a claim or wants a ruling and, (ii) the facts of the situation. he
must do so within the time required by Rule 2-5.

What is the required time do the rules state?

Tony, please.

It says right there which rule you should read, 2-5. You're asking someone to read it for you and give you the answer. Just read it yourself.

Tony_Montana

Angela Creamy Thumbscrew wrote: »

Tony, please.

It says right there which rule you should read, 2-5. You're asking someone to read it for you and give you the answer. Just read it yourself.

Sorry I misphrased I meant is there anywhere that states the time. I don't think there was any committee member present, but on the other hand he never informed me he was making a claim. He only informed me the next day that he said it to the captain (his friend) and captain told the competition secretary. Now the captain is taking over the case because the hon secretary has resigned. I've read the rules over and over again on the internet(Randa.org) I presume they are the same as in an official rule book.

Kingswood Rover

Whats the next stage of this process for you, is there a meeting arranged or have the club closed the issue and your opponent, has he played in the next round?

ozymandias10

did Hon Secretary resign over this or had already resigned ?

Tony_Montana

ozymandias10 wrote: »

did Hon Secretary resign over this or had already resigned ?

Hon secretary told me he resigned over this. He resigned this morning. Next stage is to meet with captain. There is a funeral to attend to first after that I have a meeting with captain. He informed me it would be some time near end of next week. No we were in quarter final. Semi final is still to be played. I was told no advancements will be made over the matchplay until after funeral.
I'm going for 3 finals in this competition in a row.

SaveOurLyric

Tony_Montana wrote: »

.....
It was dark we were level on 18 and decided to play the next day.


The other player has gone to next round.
I don't mind if we were disqualified for this but rematches happen all the time at the club including the final of this singles matchplay 2 years ago.
.....

This is bananas. Rematches do not happen all the time. They should not even happen at all. With all you say, it sounds like your club doesnt know the rules of golf, or if it is, is not interested in playing to them. Were you at an AGM that elected the competition or men's committee. Say your bit and dont elect them again. Better, learn the rules of golf yourself and stand for the committee. Do your bit to improve standards in your club and enjoy properly run competitions.

Seve OB

So from what I read, something happened on the 7th and you were given the hole. You really need to walk us up the 7th, shot by shot.

But then it gets confusing cause you say you actually won the match after 18, and yet in another breath it was all square after 18 and you were going to play a rematch the next day cause it was dark.... surely you would be going down 19, not replaying the whole game????

Then your opponent gets all high and mighty about whatever happened on the 7th and gets put through by the club without any discussion with you? No matter what happened before this, when the club make decisions without listening to both sides they are bang out of order.

Of course, you haven't told us the full in's and outs of the situation, so we awaith with baited breath your full disclosure.

Domo1982

Tony_Montana wrote: »

The club then ruled days later that the player gets to take the putt again (without me witness) so no clue where it was taken from,to determine the outcome of the game.

This is the bit that is mental for me - Did he make the putt?

SaveOurLyric

Domo1982 wrote: »

This is the bit that is mental for me - Did he make the putt?

Mental it is. Is the 'club'/competitions committee/secretary run by people who know nothing about golf, are they simply insane, or are they children?
Have any of them ever played the game, or even seen it played ? Do they know that the game has rules, which are freely published, in English, including assorted decisons and explanations ? Can they read ? Are any of them aged above four ? Are any of them considered capable of rational thought. It may be advisable at this stage to leave and join a proper golf club. There are several other options in the Dungarvan area.

Senna

I think there is more to this story than we are being told and I'd wager that what we have been told isn't correct.

Tiger Mcilroy

Senna wrote: »

I think there is more to this story than we are being told and I'd wager that what we have been told isn't correct.

There has to be much more, people dont simply get disqualified on the whim of his opponents friend..

fill us in OP.