You will now be clamped in Dublin city if you park in a marked EV space.

cros13

So I wanted to share the good news.

Dublin City Council has started enforcing parking regulations against vehicles parking in marked Electric Vehicle Only bays. The first four spaces have been marked in Lower Fitzwilliam street and North Merrion Square. Cork already enforces parking for these spaces and Limerick started this week.

The ideal thing for everyone involved is if people respect the marking and don't park there in the first place. A clamped car is still blocking access to the charger.

This is the marking:



You will be clamped even with a valid parking ticket if you park in these bays and you are not connected to the charger. The determining factor for whether you are charging or not is the cable being locked to the charger and connected to your car.

Parking fees are still due from EVs parking in these spaces and they will be clamped if they have not paid.

I spotted the first enforcement in Dublin today. Vehicle had a parking ticket valid until 14:17 and was clamped at 13:30.
Had a chat with the clampers while they were at it. More spaces being marked over the next month.



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seamusk84

Fair enough I'd say.
It's sort of like blocking petrol stations and people who run out of fuel would suffer.

kingtut

Fair play! Pretty scummy to park in a space for an electric vehicle (same applies to wheelchair spaces and parent and child spaces).

Now if only they would enforce it on a Sunday (in my experience there is rarely a warden on a Sunday).

cros13

seamusk84 wrote: »

Fair enough I'd say.
It's sort of like blocking petrol stations and people who run out of fuel would suffer.

Yup... taxi drivers used to park regularly in front of the Airport rapid charger, I made the point to one of them that at the time it was the last rapid charger for my car before Banbridge on the other side of Newry.
If there was only one petrol pump between Dublin and the border would they consider it fair to park in front of that?

People sometimes make the point that they never see people charging... when the main reason is that nobody can get at the charger because their car is in the way.

Personally, I'm not too pushed about these streetside slow chargers... but if it gets people to pay attention to the markings and stops them blocking the crucial rapid chargers along the motorways I'm all for it.

Atlantic Dawn

What happens when the electric vehicle is fully charged and it's still parked there all day?

thebiglad

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What happens when the electric vehicle is fully charged and it's still parked there all day?

You can only pay for 3 hours at a time so necessary to return to the car for a new ticket anyhow. The spaces come free quite often so, move the car?

Kiith

I think he meant does the owner get punished for taking the space for the entire day, when he only needs 3 hours to charge the car.

Cabaal

About time!
Has to be seriously frustrating for EV owners to encounter petrol/diesel cars parked in spots that the EV owner REQUIRES so they can keep using their car

coylemj

Kiith wrote: »

I think he meant does the owner get punished for taking the space for the entire day, when he only needs 3 hours to charge the car.

I think all P&D parking in Dublin city is restricted to three hours, you can't pay for more than that either at the ticket machines or using the Parkingtag app.

In Dun Laoghaire there is an 'all day' rate for certain zones but that option is not available in the city.

Gumbo

Kiith wrote: »

I think he meant does the owner get punished for taking the space for the entire day, when he only needs 3 hours to charge the car.

If he has a paid parking ticket I'd imagine the EV owner will be fine.

savagethegoat

aren't those trailing cables a bit of a trip hazzard?

Del2005

savagethegoat wrote: »

aren't those trailing cables a bit of a trip hazzard?

Yes and leaving themselves open to an easy claim, just hope it's the motorist and not the council which gets sued.

stoneill

cros13 wrote: »

I would have smashed the windows and run the cable through the car.

newspower

So if you are parked in one of these spaces charging your car, Do you need a valid pay & display ticket?

cros13

newspower wrote: »

So if you are parked in one of these spaces charging your car, Do you need a valid pay & display ticket?

Yup. Otherwise the EV gets clamped like anyone else would.

savagethegoat wrote: »

aren't those trailing cables a bit of a trip hazzard?

Less so if you don't have to trail them a space over because some asshole parked in the bay.

You need to pay for parking and/or charging or it only promotes abuse like we see with the fast chargers.

Having said that Carlow Co. Council have told me if an EV is plugged in the warden won't write a ticket but I don't stay there any longer than I need to.

JBokeh

stoneill wrote: »

I would have smashed the windows and run the cable through the car.

Would you really? :rolleyes:

Do plug in hybrids count for this?

Avada

JBokeh wrote: »

Would you really? :rolleyes:

Do plug in hybrids count for this?

If they're plugged in I would imagine so

I wish plug ins would not be allowed to use the crucial infrastructure essential to full electric cars, if you want more range buy a proper EV !

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has a fast charge port which I find disturbing if a lot more plug ins come with a fast charge port !

Pov06

How many EVs are out there for there to be designated EV spaces? Seems like a waste of space if the spaces will be used like once a week.

Dartz

Technically, my car is a plugin hybrid with a 0.66kW parallel electric motor. I just need to rig a charger to the battery

Sheldons Brain

If I get one of these big unsightly cables am I OK, or do they check the tax disc to see if it an electric car?

cros13

Pov06 wrote: »

How many EVs are out there for there to be designated EV spaces? Seems like a waste of space if the spaces will be used like once a week.

We're well into four figures, and more than half of those went on the road in the last 6 months. No county in Ireland has seen less than two EV sales this year. That's very visible on the rapid chargers, there's often a queue. These level 2 chargers are more popular with commuters and residents. Out of shot in the photo are another two cars charging directly across the road and a further two around the corner on merrion square.

Generally people tend to buy EVs when they know someone else who has one, so sales are growing geometrically. In all of 2011 two Nissan Leafs were registered, in January 2015 alone there were well over a hundred Leafs registered and plenty of the other twenty EV and PHEV models on the market from other manufacturers (though the Leaf is still the top seller in Ireland).

Dartz wrote: »

Technically, my car is a plugin hybrid with a 0.66kW parallel electric motor. I just need to rig a charger to the battery

The amended road traffic regulations state that your vehicle must be capable of being propelled solely by it's electric motor: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0325.html

cros13

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

If I get one of these big unsightly cables am I OK, or do they check the tax disc to see if it an electric car?

Well they check if the cable is locked to the charger so:

1. You need a card to unlock the cover of the charge socket... to get one you need to submit a copy of your registration cert for the car to ESB.

2. You'll need to fool the charger into believing your car is connected and supplying power. If you know what you are doing you can do this with a certain resistor in the right place. But then....

3. You need to deal with the 22kW of multi-phase power being supplied (essentially twice your household supply at full capacity) and use at least some of it without:
(a) setting your car on fire; or
(b) arc welding yourself to the pavement; or
(c) tripping any of the safeties on the charger

The first copper thief to go near a 50-150kW rapid charger will be an automatic shoo-in for the darwin awards.

And yes failing all that they can just check the tax disk... though an 1988 corolla hooked to a charger might be a bit of a giveaway.

Sh1tbag OToole

Fecking Dubs will use any excuse to clamp someone. Greedy money grabbing sh1ts Dublin council.

While I was living there I rarely used the car and was never clamped but used to hate to see the f*ckers going around in their Renault Trafic vans. Pure pricks

cros13

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Fecking Dubs will use any excuse to clamp someone. Greedy money grabbing sh1ts Dublin council.

While I was living there I rarely used the car and was never clamped but used to hate to see the f*ckers going around in their Renault Trafic vans. Pure pricks

Cork was first to mark the bays and start the fines.

HandsomeDan

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Fecking Dubs will use any excuse to clamp someone. Greedy money grabbing sh1ts Dublin council.

While I was living there I rarely used the car and was never clamped but used to hate to see the f*ckers going around in their Renault Trafic vans. Pure pricks

And what do you think would happen if there was no enforcement? Why do you think there were spaces available when you needed them?

Back on topic: I'm sorry, but queues at fast chargers? I admire you guys for being early adopters and getting the ball rolling, but eV ownership sounds like a nightmare. How about 1000+km between charges and 5 min charges - Oh, and cheaper cars.

JBokeh

cros13 wrote: »

The amended road traffic regulations state that your vehicle must be capable of being propelled solely by it's electric motor: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0325.html

I once ran out of petrol and coasted up to the filling station between castletownroche and mallow, didn't have the momentum to get up the hill into the place so I stuck it in first and turned the key which dragged it up the hill, I had an electric car Going to go apply for my new rate of tax now

doolox

...reminds me of the time I had to get rid of an old car because the gearbox was damaged and on its last legs.

On the morning of the swapover to a newer car I barely got it to the garage, who were giving me €300 for it on a trade in.

I had to coast down hill to the garage as the gear box was only working in 3rd or fourth gear.

bucketybuck

cros13 wrote: »

The determining factor for whether you are charging or not is the cable being locked to the charger and connected to your car.

So what happens when the inevitable scrote comes along and pulls the cable out for a laugh?

Red Kev

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Fecking Dubs will use any excuse to clamp someone. Greedy money grabbing sh1ts Dublin council.

While I was living there I rarely used the car and was never clamped but used to hate to see the f*ckers going around in their Renault Trafic vans. Pure pricks

The alternative would be chaos. Things were bad enough before clamping, but there has been a huge increase in car ownership since and if you were to get rid of it the situation would be dire. It's easy to avoid getting clamped.

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Back on topic: I'm sorry, but queues at fast chargers? I admire you guys for being early adopters and getting the ball rolling. But eV ownership sounds like a nightmare. How about 1000+km between charges and 5 min charges - Oh, and cheaper cars.

That will come eventually, they are learning all the time. The more people who buy them, the more is invested in R&D and the more improvements will be made. Just look at where we are with diesel engines compared to 25 years ago.

cros13

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Back on topic: I'm sorry, but queues at fast chargers? I admire you guys for being early adopters and getting the ball rolling. But eV ownership sounds like a nightmare. How about 1000+km between charges and 5 min charges - Oh, and cheaper cars.

The queues tend to happen on a small number of rapids feeding major routes. It's largely down to the rapidly increasing sales, and it only really impacts people on long journeys. There are a number of solutions which are in the process of being worked out this summer.

One is that ESB is installing 20 more rapid chargers (both increasing the number of rapid chargers on the route and doubling up rapid chargers at the busiest sites). By the end of the year there will be a rapid charger every 25km on major routes and most towns will have several close rapids.

Two is the live feed most of us have into our sat-navs that tells us whether a charger is occupied. Currently ESB doesn't feed data for the rapids to this but it's on the cards.

Three is increased range. Nissan are bumping the usable capacity of the Leaf battery by 25% next month for a refresh and doubling it for the 2017 MY Leaf a year later. BMW are doing a 40% bump next year for the i3 too.

Four is increased power from the rapid chargers. ESB is currently installing 50kW rapid chargers, Norway has started deploying 100kW rapids (more than 30% of cars sold in Norway are EVs, in March alone there were 3,500 registrations). And there will be 150kW rapid chargers commercially available in the new year for my car that will mean 7ish minute 0-80% rapid charges. Tesla are also installing four new 135kW supercharger locations in Ireland in the new year.

The price issue is largely solving itself. When the Leaf launched the battery cost $700/Kwh, it now costs just under $200/Kwh. That plus reductions in the cost of production of the rest of the car has meant the price of the Leaf has gone down by €10,000 in four years and Nissan at the same time has gone from losing money on each Leaf to making a small profit. A Leaf is now ~€3-5k cheaper than an equivalent Golf after incentives (and not including the €4k scrappage Nissan is offering until the end of July to get the smaller batteries off the lot) and much better specced for the money (we get the same spec as the UK for once). It's also cheaper to tax, cheaper to insure and around ten times cheaper to run than a diesel Golf (if you are paying for all your leccy).

Stopping to rapid charge isn't a big deal. I drove to London last month for the Formula E weekend. While I got stuck in traffic on the M6 and M40 (glastonbury weekend) the three rapid charging stops were very natural. Every two hours / two and half hours I needed a cup of coffee and a stretch anyway so I pulled into the motorway services, hooked up and I was 85-90% charged by the time I'd paid for my coffee in Costa. I didn't have to do it (I have a 650cc generator in the car feeding the battery so I could do the trip in one go (minus queuing at petrol stations)) but it was nice to be able to do a round-trip to London for €1.20 of electricity. And TBH rapid chargers are not like petrol stations, if you drive less than 150ish km a day you'll never have to visit one as plugging your car in at home every evening will suffice.

I'm not saying it's all roses, but it's a trade off. You save a lot of money over a traditional car, home charging is a real luxury and the cars are responsive and pleasant to drive. In exchange at the moment you deal with rapid charging if you want to go long distance or on an unexpected trip, a little bit of planning into your journeys and the odd petrol/diesel car blocking the charger.

bucketybuck wrote: »

So what happens when the inevitable scrote comes along and pulls the cable out for a laugh?

It's locked on both sides. Charger requires the card you used when you plugged in to release the cable. And on the car side it locks either with the doors or a switch in the cabin.

cros13

And of course over the next year everything from the Merc S-Class to the VW Passat are getting plug-in hybrid versions. Those will get a lot more people used to doing most of their mileage on electric power.

And of course also on the PHEV front there's this:

Oafley Jones

cros13 wrote: »

And of course over the next year everything from the Merc S-Class to the VW Passat are getting plug-in hybrid versions. Those will get a lot more people used to doing most of their mileage on electric power.

And of course also on the PHEV front there's this:

Just to clarify. PHEV won't get clamped for charging, is that correct. If that's so it'll be a nightmare for purely EV owners.

cros13

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Just to clarify. PHEV won't get clamped for charging, is that correct. If that's so it'll be a nightmare for purely EV owners.

Not really a problem for the pure EV owners since on the public road we mainly need the rapid chargers not these slow chargers. These PHEVs (with the sole exception of the Outlander) don't have rapid charging.
As I said a few posts back, I'm mainly happy about the marking of these bays if it gets people to respect the markings in front of the rapid chargers.
Plus PHEV owners quickly realise that they can do most of their driving on electric power, that charging isn't a big deal and they usually add a full EV to their garage in fairly short order.
PHEVs are EVs with training wheels.

If you have the Type 2 socket on your car and you're charging I'd don't think anyone has the right to begrudge you access to the charger.

Sh1tbag OToole

Red Kev wrote: »

The alternative would be chaos. Things were bad enough before clamping, but there has been a huge increase in car ownership since and if you were to get rid of it the situation would be dire. It's easy to avoid getting clamped.




That will come eventually, they are learning all the time. The more people who buy them, the more is invested in R&D and the more improvements will be made. Just look at where we are with diesel engines compared to 25 years ago.

No. They got rid of the clampers in Cork and there has been no increase in chaos. Clampers have quotas they try to meet and can be overzealous and they know you have little scope to challenge them there and then. The fines can be challenged later and I suppose they are a necessary evil but at least you don't have some ignorant thug strong-arming you into paying up there and then.

If I go to Dublin I'll be bringing the inverter and angle grinder but some poor girlie with a Matiz with L plates on the back who gets clamped is completely at these thugs mercy

highdef

It's great that they are finally being clamped but in this instance I think they should be towed away. Cars that are clamped are generally clamped because they have passed their allotted time at the parking space or have not paid for parking but are otherwise not causing any other hassle. Cars that are towed away are usually done so because they are causing a nuisance or obstruction.

ICE cars that are parked in EV charging/parking spots are most definitely causing an obstruction as they are generally obstructing an owner of an EV vehicle from charging his/her vehicle in the officially designated space.

Having said that, those who ICE car drivers who have been using EV parking spots will learn quite quickly not to park there so hopefully they will just simply stop parking in the spots....it's not as though the signage is not glaringly obvious!

Sh1tbag OToole

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

If I go to Dublin I'll be bringing the inverter and angle grinder

Alternatively a couple of euro in the parking meter seems to work too and way more convenient. For a price of a large grinding disc you can park for several hours.

Sh1tbag OToole

samih wrote: »

Alternatively a couple of euro in the parking meter seems to work too and way more convenient. For a price of a large grinding disc you can park for several hours.

I'd be using the small ones :pac:

cros13

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I'd be using the small ones :pac:

I have a set of lockpicks (the DCC locks are easy to pick) and as a backup a strong bolt cutters in the car.

I agree that a fine on the windshield is the way forward rather than a clamp which can damage people's alloys and forcibly keeps the car blocking the charger. I'm just delighted because in the past the response of both drivers blocking the chargers and the council has been a shrug and a "sure it can't be helped"

I don't think there'll be many running out to buy plug-ins, they cost a significant amount more than full battery cars and while I don't object to them using street charging I strongly feel they should not be allowed to use the fast chargers which are crucial to battery only cars, if someone wants a lot of battery range then they should buy a proper electric car and not some half ass lame excuse for electrified transport.

If equipped with 6-7 Kw AC chargers then the AC street chargers will be good enough and they'll charge from them a lot faster, a fast charger isn't actually that fast for a small battery, the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV has a much smaller battery and can be fast charged but still takes 30 mins to 80% because it charges at a lot slower rate than the Leaf and all this for a lousy 20 odd miles EV range.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think there'll be many running out to buy plug-ins, they cost a significant amount more than full battery cars

I assume you mean the base diesel and petrol models. I know that the Plug-in S Class launched in the states is priced the same as the base petrol model....

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

I assume you mean the base diesel and petrol models. I know that the Plug-in S Class launched in the states is priced the same as the base petrol model....

I mean a lot more expensive than petrol/diesel and full battery cars. Who'd pay for a GTE Golf over a E-Golf ? though the GTe would be a lot faster and I suppose a different league.

I just don't see the need to pay Extra VRT/Tax on carrying around an engine I'd hardly use but I suppose a plug-in needs the engine due to the small size of the battery but that's the reason I got a Leaf to do my 134 Km daily commute a 5-10 min fast charge takes care of the rest and gets me home with 20% in the battery. And soon I'll have a work charge point, though I don;t know how long more I'll be there.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean a lot more expensive than petrol/diesel and full battery cars. Who'd pay for a GTE Golf over a E-Golf ? though the GTe would be a lot faster and I suppose a different league.

The GTE is priced the same as the GTD and about €2k less than the GTi

Funny, I can't find the GTE on VW . IE ?

The GTD is laughably expensive for a Golf, then again German cars are usually over priced. Almost 10K more than a higher spec Leaf that costs a lot less to run, that is incredible. Sure it has maybe 65 more hp but still. But In fairness I suppose a lot of that is the extra VAT + VRT. I wouldn't have a diesel Golf anyway or a poxy plug in with an engine.

Wouldn't pay that for a GTE either. Perhaps for a longer range I3.

Dartz

cros13 wrote: »

The amended road traffic regulations state that your vehicle must be capable of being propelled solely by it's electric motor: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0325.html

It can be.

At 1 or 2kph for a few yards.

But it's still solely being propelled by its electric motor.

To Elland Back

On Abbey Street in Wexford, the charging point is located on a standard pay parking spot with no restrictions. It is a busy road and standard cars are always legally parked there . Never saw an electric vehicle charging at it

cros13

To Elland Back wrote: »

Never saw an electric vehicle charging at it

To Elland Back wrote: »

It is a busy road and standard cars are always legally parked there.

Another reason they wouldn't be used much is that there are three (soon to be four) rapid chargers on the outskirts of Wexford town. In general the people who use those streetside chargers are residents and commuters. I'd imagine most commuters to wexford town driving EVs would have a round trip well inside the 150-160km realistic range of current EVs or are using the rapids. Residents in Wexford who'd be buying an EV would be more likely to have a driveway or garage to charge. Commuters and residents in the cities would be more likely to need the juice.

Dartz wrote: »

It can be.

At 1 or 2kph for a few yards.

But it's still solely being propelled by its electric motor.

GLWS

Del2005

cros13 wrote: »

The amended road traffic regulations state that your vehicle must be capable of being propelled solely by it's electric motor: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2014/en/si/0325.html

If I'm reading the statute right it says that an elelectric vehicle must be charging to use the bay, does that mean I could stick a solar charger on my hybrid and annoy all the EV drivers? It could take ages for my battery to recharge

cros13

Del2005 wrote: »

If I'm reading the statute right it says that an elelectric vehicle must be charging to use the bay, does that mean I could stick a solar charger on my hybrid and annoy all the EV drivers? It could take ages for my battery to recharge

The clampers use whether the car is connected to the charger and locked. So you'd be clamped, have to pay and have to make that argument at appeal... where I suspect you'll be told to stop taking the piss.

Del2005

cros13 wrote: »

The clampers use whether the car is connected to the charger and locked. So you'd be clamped, have to pay and have to make that argument at appeal... where I suspect you'll be told to stop taking the piss.

The statute is the law so I would be taking the piss but legally parked so an appeal would be valid till the statute is changed, unless the clampers operate off a different law.