Eircode for Waterford?

jmcc

Seems that some places in Waterford have an X prefix. Cool.

www.eircode.ie

Regards...jmcc

O Riain

How stupid is that, why not just make it W or WD to save confusion. Also adjacent areas won't have similar postcodes but will in fact have completely random post codes. Absolutely insane.

jmcc

O Riain wrote: »

How stupid is that, why not just make it W or WD to save confusion. Also adjacent areas won't have similar postcodes but will in fact have completely random post codes. Absolutely insane.

Because they paid some company 27 million Euro to come up with this scheme? Basing it on care registration codes might have been problematic because they needed a simple three character routing code at the start. Waterford (and Ferrybank) have an X91 code. The other four characters seem to be a unique property identifier. The reason they are not sequential appears to be down to spammers and junk mailers. If they were, then a particular location could be targeted by just stepping through the location identifiers.

Wait until some of the KKers find out they are in the X-Files now.

Regards...jmcc

CardBordWindow

I'm sure most Kilkenny people who had to put Via Waterford on their post have a X prefix now.
Makes sense not to have the prefix letter tied down by county boundaries so.

jmcc

CardBordWindow wrote: »

I'm sure most Kilkenny people who had to put Via Waterford on their post have a X prefix now.
Makes sense not to have the prefix letter tied down by county boundaries so.

Just checked Kilmacow, it seems to have an X91 code. John Paul Phelan (FG TD) will be upset about this Waterford "lebensraumt" invasion.

Regards...jmcc

beyondbelief67

Wonder if putting this into the sat nav for visiting relatives might make it work better ? My cousin nearly had a heart attack last year when I told him we didn't have post codes for him to put into his sat nav to find us, then again will they even work on ones here ?

thomasm

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

Wonder if putting this into the sat nav for visiting relatives might make it work better ? My cousin nearly had a heart attack last year when I told him we didn't have post codes for him to put into his sat nav to find us, then again will they even work on ones here ?

Wont work with Sat Navs or Google Maps apparently :eek:

Big Lar

thomasm wrote: »

Wont work with Sat Navs or Google Maps apparently :eek:

Or Ebay

beyondbelief67

Big Lar wrote: »

Or Ebay

Maybe it's just going to take a while for eBay to accept it or something, as the letter states it will make it easier to shop online, yet so far it doesn't look like it is any use at all !

Cabaal

CardBordWindow wrote: »

I'm sure most Kilkenny people who had to put Via Waterford on their post have a X prefix now.
Makes sense not to have the prefix letter tied down by county boundaries so.

Problem is a large amount of delivery company's including An Post have no plans to use eircodes

Harry Palmr

Stupid nonsense, a system that is deliberately designed to be of no use except to government depts and utilities for collecting monies.

danjo-xx

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Stupid nonsense, a system that is deliberately designed to be of no use except to government depts and utilities for collecting monies.

It's not compulsory.

Wanderer78

jebus this thing sounds like another waste of money service

wmpdd3

Very interesting map they they use to identify houses, it us very up to date. It even has an extension that was built a month ago on it.

Harry Palmr

danjo-xx wrote: »

It's not compulsory.

It won't take long before all new or refreshed contracts will require a postcode.

katydid

thomasm wrote: »

Wont work with Sat Navs or Google Maps apparently :eek:

Not yet. Apparently it'll take six months or so

The Adversary

jmcc wrote: »

Because they paid some company 27 million Euro to come up with this scheme? Basing it on care registration codes might have been problematic because they needed a simple three character routing code at the start. Waterford (and Ferrybank) have an X91 code. The other four characters seem to be a unique property identifier. The reason they are not sequential appears to be down to spammers and junk mailers. If they were, then a particular location could be targeted by just stepping through the location identifiers.

Wait until some of the KKers find out they are in the X-Files now.

Regards...jmcc

Absolutely glorious. Even as far as Mullinavat is listed as "Waterford" not "Via Waterford" and not "Waterford, Co.Kilkenny" (as google maps is fond of) Can't wait for their little heads to melt

FishOnABike

The Adversary wrote: »

Absolutely glorious. Even as far as Mullinavat is listed as "Waterford" not "Via Waterford" and not "Waterford, Co.Kilkenny" (as google maps is fond of) Can't wait for their little heads to melt

X91 seems to cover an area from Slieverue to past Carroll's Cross on the N25 and Mullinavat to Tramore - approx 30 km x 30 km.

beazee

FishOnABike wrote: »

X91 seems to cover an area from Slieverue to past Carroll's Cross on the N25 and Mullinavat to Tramore - approx 30 km x 30 km.

An area serviced by Waterford Mail Sorting Office, that's it.

fuzzy dunlop

beazee wrote: »

An area serviced by Waterford Mail Sorting Office, that's it.

But, But, But people with the same county jersey should have their own.....Oh never mind;)

bluesfan

beazee wrote: »

An area serviced by Waterford Mail Sorting Office, that's it.

Yes, according to a guy on the radio yesterday the first 3 digits of the postcode are based on the Sorting office. So if your mail goes through the Waterford Sorting office your postcode will be X91. The four digits after it are entirely random, making it impossible to work it out on your own. Any company wanting to use them will have to pay An Post a fee. How quickly sat navs and such pick the system up will depend on how much An Post decide to charge them.

FishOnABike

bluesfan wrote: »

Yes, according to a guy on the radio yesterday the first 3 digits of the postcode are based on the Sorting office.

So of limited use to anybody other than An Post unless they organise their logistics in the exact same manner as An Post and even then they will have to pay to decipher the random part of the code.

danjo-xx

FishOnABike wrote: »

So of limited use to anybody other than An Post unless they organise their logistics in the exact same manner as An Post and even then they will have to pay to decipher the random part of the code.

Nightline, they who run Parcel Motel and apparently the country's largest courier are on board with this, maybe in time it will all bare fruit, wouldn't hold me breath though.

Wanderer78

danjo-xx wrote: »

Nightline, they who run Parcel Motel and apparently the country's largest courier are on board with this, maybe in time it will all bare fruit, wouldn't hold me breath though.

yea im gonna sit on this one for the moment and see how it works out but its showing some fairly serious holes already. sure it could sort all our problems

FishOnABike

jmcc wrote: »

Seems that some places in Waterford have an X prefix. Cool.

www.eircode.ie

Regards...jmcc

X marks the spot !

Trick of the Tail

It's unlikely to be adopted by satnavs, because a) the govt want a huge sum for the database to be used commercially, and b) the database file is too big to be stored on most satnavs. Also, the database goes out of date so often, as new houses are built etc, that it's effectively useless.

There is only one good reason for using a database-reliant system, and that's so its use can be controlled. Read: sold.

It's a useless system. An Post don't need it; most delivery companies won't use it because of the cost; it only works if an address is assigned a code, there is no natural way to get an eircode otherwise.

The government actually spent over 50 million on this, and there's an ongoing cost to run it, all going to a foreign company.

They were offered the Irish-developed Loc8 code system, which is far better operationally but not so easy to monetise, but turned down the offer.

A typical Irish government solution. Why do something properly when for more money you can really cock it up?

Wanderer78

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

They were offered the Irish-developed Loc8 code system, which is far better operationally but not so easy to monetise, but turned down the offer.

A typical Irish government solution. Why do something properly when for more money you can really cock it up?

its very worrying to see our government do these type of deals whens theres so many capable irish companies and people that can do it

looksee

Er, voting machines anyone?

Fireman1

Eircodes are not postcodes. They are property registration numbers. Just like your car needs a reg. Number so it can be efficiently taxed or fined, your property needs a reg. Number.
If they had said they were introducing property registration numbers there would have been an outcry. The anti water charges brigade would have wet themselves. nobody would bother to remember them. Call it a postcode and people rushed to get theirs.

katydid

Fireman1 wrote: »

Eircodes are not postcodes. They are property registration numbers. Just like your car needs a reg. Number so it can be efficiently taxed or fined, your property needs a reg. Number.
If they had said they were introducing property registration numbers there would have been an outcry. The anti water charges brigade would have wet themselves. nobody would bother to remember them. Call it a postcode and people rushed to get theirs.

Rubbish. Firstly, no one rushed to get their codes. They were sent them in the post.

Secondly, they are not registration numbers of any kind. The people that need to know who lives in what property already have that information. they don't need another set of numbers.

You're a wee bit paranoid.

BuffyBot

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its very worrying to see our government do these type of deals whens theres so many capable irish companies and people that can do it

..queue claims of "job for the boys", "same old people getting the contracts", "brown envelope" claims if it was awarded to an Irish company. Folks are never happy.

The funny thing is that all these wah-wah doom and gloom claims are practically identical to those mooted when the UK introduced postcodes many moons ago. Yet, it's proven to work out fine in the long run.

Wanderer78

BuffyBot wrote: »

..queue claims of "job for the boys", "same old people getting the contracts", "brown envelope" claims if it was awarded to an Irish company. Folks are never happy.

The funny thing is that all these wah-wah doom and gloom claims are practically identical to those mooted when the UK introduced postcodes many moods ago. Yet, it's proven to work out fine in the long run.

ah yea gonna give it time. we probably do need some sort of postcode system. im sure all systems have teething problems so we ll see what happens. debates are interesting though.

... sure if we were all happy, what would we give out about? sure joe and billy would be out of a job!

Fireman1

Hi katydid,
Please do not let facts get in the way of your thought process. You say "Rubbish. Firstly, no one rushed to get their codes. They were sent them in the post." Sorry you are wrong. Waterford was one of the first areas in the Country to get the letter. Most of Cork got their letters yesterday or will get them today. As yet the letters are not posted in Dublin. Eircodes launched at 10:00 on Monday.The website went live at 8 am. Even before the launch thousands of people had checked thei codes on line, at least that is what the company running the launch said. The website was so busy that they were boasting that it had stayed up.

Your second point "The people that need to know who lives in what property already have that information" again wrong. 35% of addresses in Ireland are non unique. That is two or more properties have exactly the same address. Many are lived in by families who share the same surname. Capita have explained that that is a primary reason for the codes.

As an aside, An Post do not own the Eircode database. They will not get a cent from people paying for licences. The contract to come up with Eircodes was given to a UK company Capita. An Post will probably loose money as their data base of addresses does not have Eircodes. Google An Post Address Checker and enter an address if you doubt me.

A letter with just the postcode cannot be delivered. As far as I know the postman does not have a machine to tell him where to go with it. The Eircode is no help to a post person!
They already know which sorting office they are working out of and cant do anything with the second part of the code.
'Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you

deisemum

In the UK you can just put your postcode and house number and omit your full address and you'll get your post just as quickly as you would by using the full address.

katydid

Fireman1 wrote: »

Hi katydid,
Please do not let facts get in the way of your thought process. You say "Rubbish. Firstly, no one rushed to get their codes. They were sent them in the post." Sorry you are wrong. Waterford was one of the first areas in the Country to get the letter. Most of Cork got their letters yesterday or will get them today. As yet the letters are not posted in Dublin. Eircodes launched at 10:00 on Monday.The website went live at 8 am. Even before the launch thousands of people had checked thei codes on line, at least that is what the company running the launch said. The website was so busy that they were boasting that it had stayed up.

Your second point "The people that need to know who lives in what property already have that information" again wrong. 35% of addresses in Ireland are non unique. That is two or more properties have exactly the same address. Many are lived in by families who share the same surname. Capita have explained that that is a primary reason for the codes.

As an aside, An Post do not own the Eircode database. They will not get a cent from people paying for licences. The contract to come up with Eircodes was given to a UK company Capita. An Post will probably loose money as their data base of addresses does not have Eircodes. Google An Post Address Checker and enter an address if you doubt me.

A letter with just the postcode cannot be delivered. As far as I know the postman does not have a machine to tell him where to go with it. The Eircode is no help to a post person!
They already know which sorting office they are working out of and cant do anything with the second part of the code.
'Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you

Fact; we're talking about Waterford. In Waterford we got the letters. Other people will get letters. The tense is irrelevant; what is relevant is that they don't have to apply for them, they are already allocated to them.

I take your point about non-unique addresses, but identifying an address more closely has nothing to do with a registration number for that property; it revenue want to get your money off you, they don't need a registration number, they will find you and get it. To call it a property tax registration number is nonsense.

Having said that, I won't be using it. I think the idea is good, but I'm not going to use something that makes it easier for private companies but not for An Post. I think it's a flawed system and should be boycotted. Mind you, I don't live in the third house up the boreen after the big tree after the bridge; if I did, I might see it as a godsend.

beazee

Fireman1 wrote: »

Hi katydid,
A letter with just the postcode cannot be delivered. As far as I know the postman does not have a machine to tell him where to go with it.

This is actually something I'd like to check. To see whether the "postcode" is of any use for delivering post.

Fireman1

beazee wrote: »

This is actually something I'd like to check. To see whether the "postcode" is of any use for delivering post.

From what I read on the Royal mail postalheritage site their code gives the sorting office, same as Eircode, but the second part is up to 15 adjacent addresses. So their postcode is not unlike our non unique addreses. The local postman is smart enough and has the knowledge to do the last bit of getting the mail delivered.
An Post have also made some remarkable deliveries. Try going to Joe.ie and search for ....post Cavan.... So it might work once or twice but Eircodes are not as usable as the UK system. The UK system is useless as a PRN, Eircode is just perfect for that.

Ps When looking for an example of An Post making deliveries that were exceptional I came across meversusanpost dot tumbler dot com Worth a look.

beazee

Some amazing accomplishments by An Post on this site:
http://meversusanpost.tumblr.com/

Haven't found the sole postcode address yet.

jmcc

beazee wrote: »

Some amazing accomplishments by An Post on this site:
http://meversusanpost.tumblr.com/

Haven't found the sole postcode address yet.

Cool site. An Post has always been impressive. I once received a letter from the USA addressed with just my name and Ireland as the addressing information.

Regards...jmcc

MarkK

O Riain wrote: »

How stupid is that, why not just make it W or WD to save confusion. Also adjacent areas won't have similar postcodes but will in fact have completely random post codes. Absolutely insane.

Aside from the problem of which county code you give to postal districts which span county borders, such as Youghal, Carrick and Clonmel...

W is west london, WD is watford in the UK.
It would truly be insane to use postcodes so easily confused for British ones, ending up with post from the UK getting delayed or lost.

MarkK

Fireman1 wrote: »

... but the second part is up to 15 adjacent addresses. So their postcode is not unlike our non unique addreses. The local postman is smart enough and has the knowledge to do the last bit of getting the mail delivered.

I think it's 15 adjacent addresses on average, UK codes such as E15 1JA have over 100 addresses, in rural areas, it may just cover a handful and big companies often get their own postcode.

It's far more unusual in the UK for a house not to have a name or number.

Trick of the Tail

In the UK the postcode is just that - a code to assist sorting mail. The code refers to a number of houses, a street or part of. To get a letter delivered you have to put the house number on the letter too.

They system means that if a new house is built in an area, it will have the same postcode as the others around it.

That type of postcode is unnecessary now, since character recognition software is now able to read full addresses anyway.

But the new system here assigns a unique, non-consecutive code to every dwelling. Pointless really, since every dwelling has an electricity meter and they all have unique numbers anyway. They could have just used that, or a derivation of it.

What's more useful these days is a location code, so a place can be identified even if it's not a dwelling. Imagine you come across a traffic accident in the middle of nowhere, and could look on your smartphone and give the emergency services a code that locates the place you're at?

Ok, I know you could give them the lat/long, but not all phones have that, and there are several formats.

Eircode is useless for that. Loc8 was perfect for it.

But the only reason the government weren't interested in taking up the offer of Loc8 for free was because it's harder to monetise. There is no database to sell.

Or not sell, as I suspect will be the case, since they've made it too complicated to work, and the database is too big and will change too often to be of any use to sat navs.

Loc8 would have been far better in providing what the system is supposed to provide than Eircode, but no-one could have been given tens of millions to develop it and more tens or hundreds of millions to maintain it for years to come.

Eircode is a typical cock-up, and proves that governments should have nothing to do with organising things like this. They can't do it right, there are too many vested interests, and too much scope for corruption.

MarkK

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

In the UK the postcode is just that - a code to assist sorting mail.

In England postcodes are used for far more than that.
Anything internet related expects you to use your postcode to give your address.
Many web sites ask for your address in the form of a postcode, then it provides a dropdown list of the available addresses at the postcode to choose from.

In some shops, if I forget my loyalty card, they can use my postcode to find my details.

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

That type of postcode is unnecessary now, since character recognition software is now able to read full addresses anyway.

Postcodes are unnecessary for An Post, and indeed they did not want a postcode system.
They are very useful for having a quick and accurate way of conveying your address.

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

But the new system here assigns a unique, non-consecutive code to every dwelling. Pointless really, since every dwelling has an electricity meter and they all have unique numbers anyway. They could have just used that, or a derivation of it.

And electricity meter numbers are how many character long? non-consecutive and when you get a new meter installed does your postcode change?

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

But the only reason the government weren't interested in taking up the offer of Loc8 for free was because it's harder to monetise. There is no database to sell.

As I understand it Loc8 would allow the GOVERNMENT to use it for free, they did not say that everyone could use it for free. Loc8 was privately developed and funded, so it is totally reasonable that they would want a return on their investment. I don't like the idea of the national postcode system being privately controlled.

Johnboy1951

MarkK wrote: »

As I understand it Loc8 would allow the GOVERNMENT to use it for free, they did not say that everyone could use it for free. Loc8 was privately developed and funded, so it is totally reasonable that they would want a return on their investment. I don't like the idea of the national postcode system being privately controlled.

How do you feel about the 'Eircode' name not being owned by the Irish Gov?

What can you link me to that shows ownership of the database of Eircode and what charges are/will be levied for its use by those who need some form of location information?
Charges outlined here:
https://www.eircode.ie/images/Licencing-and-PricingInformation-as-of-March2015-PUBLISHED%20v.2.pdf

I am not clear who benefits from those charges ...

It looks to me that Eircode have acquired (for the most part) the An Post data base and restructured it by adding codes.

Looking at the Loc8 scheme it seems to be a much more flexible system while at the same time covering all the requirements for emergency and other services.

.. comparison with E-Voting machines comes to mind ..

LeinsterDub

Cabaal wrote: »

Problem is a large amount of delivery company's including An Post have no plans to use eircodes

An post and nearly every delivery company I've heard absolutely will be using it

Johnboy1951

LeinsterDub wrote: »

An post and nearly every delivery company I've heard absolutely will be using it

An post already use their own delivery method from their own data base.
They have no need or requirement for any additional information.

I would much prefer to see this being the basis for all codes .... mail and other services ....

http://www.openpostcode.org/

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

How do you feel about the 'Eircode' name not being owned by the Irish Gov?

I don't care it's the "Irish postcode" I'm not bothered how they market it.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What can you link me to that shows ownership of the database of Eircode and what charges are/will be levied for its use by those who need some form of location information?
Charges outlined here:
https://www.eircode.ie/images/Licencing-and-PricingInformation-as-of-March2015-PUBLISHED%20v.2.pdf

I am not clear who benefits from those charges ...

And I'm not clear what charges Loc8 might levy or who might benefit from them.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Looking at the Loc8 scheme it seems to be a much more flexible system while at the same time covering all the requirements for emergency and other services.

That's one argument I don't get, is there an emergency services requirement that exist for the Irish postcode which don't exist for the UK postcode?

If you have an accident in the middle of nowhere how do you know what the Loc8 code is? The only way I can think of is with a smartphone, which can be used to convey your location anyway, using something like:
http://afloat.ie/safety/rescue/item/27495-new-locateme112-service-helps-locate-emergency-callers-via-smartphone

Johnboy1951

We don't have a need for a post code for mail deliveries.
An Post have been running their own scheme quite successfully.

What would be a benefit would be location code ..... one not tied to the mail delivery scheme, but independent and versatile.

http://www.openpostcode.org/
is one such scheme.
Similar to Loc8 but open to all without cost etc.

A system based on this could be beneficial to all.

If you have an accident in the middle of nowhere how do you know what the Loc8 code is? The only way I can think of is with a smartphone, which can be used to convey your location anyway, using something like:
http://afloat.ie/safety/rescue/item/...via-smartphone

All such services should be able to use the 'Official' Irish codes to locate a person, no matter where they are, to within a metre or so.
The Eircodes are for mail delivery points and nothing else.

We had a chance to get one set of 'official' codes for the island, that all services could use ...... delivery, emergency etc etc.

Now we have An Post using their own system for local delivery (postie local knowledge). They indicate they will use the Eircode where present for some main sorting locations.

Eircode could be used for other delivery persons .... but cost is a big factor, and there is no postcode relation between locations in close proximity which makes it useless to a human.

Whatever about the initial cost, we could have had a much better and expandable & versatile system for our future needs.

I would like to think that if I was in need of assistance and used an app on a mobile phone, that it could generate (without licence issues) a 'code' that all services could use - again without licencing issues.

That 'complete' system does not seem possible now ...... so we get a multiple of different services generating their own codes or using different systems.

selous

Cabaal wrote: »

Problem is a large amount of delivery company's including An Post have no plans to use eircodes

I don't see how An Post will use them, imagine only a post code going on an envelope,poor oul postie has to learn all the post codes on his route, :eek:

They still need an address or like where I live no-one uses a house name or number just the persons name, and the post codes are coming out to the house not person, so they'll be sent out addressed to the road, loads of them,

So someone will have to look up the post code to see what house they are for, as they now can NOT return them as "incomplete address" as they wont be, oops.:cool:

MarkK

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What would be a benefit would be location code ..... one not tied to the mail delivery scheme, but independent and versatile.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

All such services should be able to use the 'Official' Irish codes to locate a person, no matter where they are, to within a metre or so.

Does any other country have such a postcode system?
If nobody else needs one, why do we?

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The Eircodes are for mail delivery points and nothing else.

Postcode system turns out to be ... a postcode system.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Eircode could be used for other delivery persons .... but cost is a big factor, and there is no postcode relation between locations in close proximity which makes it useless to a human.

I'm not sure what you mean, if you were in UK postcode NW2 7HP and wanted to go to NW1 7HP, how would you know where to go without looking it up online or similar?

Johnboy1951

MarkK wrote: »

Does any other country have such a postcode system?
If nobody else needs one, why do we?


Postcode system turns out to be ... a postcode system.

You seem stuck on Postcode for delivery of mail/parcels etc.

We had the opportunity to do all that and a lot more by selecting to use a more advanced system which could be used for location and not just mail delivery points.

I'm not sure what you mean, if you were in UK postcode NW2 7HP and wanted to go to NW1 7HP, how would you know where to go without looking it up online or similar?

If my business was delivery then I am certain I would know.
Try that with those Eircode codes ... not a hope.

Anyway, that is really beside the point ....... we had the opportunity to not introduce a 1960s system, but to introduce a much more modern, accurate and versatile system and we have blown it, apparently.