Postcodes released

Paulw

I see the new postcodes have been released.

www.eircode.ie

I think the system is a farce though. :cool:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/eircode-postcodes-what-you-need-to-know-about-irelands-new-postcode-system-31371881.html

lima

Why?

Rew

lima wrote: »

Why?

Id imagine due to all the points laid out in the 2nd link.

The info that it was the wrong thing to do was available from day one now 20 million quid in they are still bulling on...

ghogie91

Have to say this is going to make my job delivering a whole lot easier, I have had a look at the website and it has the potential of being great! It will make a change of old country people telling you to go by the rusty shed and if you meet the cows you have gone too far

Paulw

ghogie91 wrote: »

Have to say this is going to make my job delivering a whole lot easier,

A GPS location would be easier to use than eircode. :eek:

None of the major delivery companies (FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc) will be using it, and even An Post won't be using it, because it's a useless addressing system for delivery.

Even the emergency services have expressed concern about it.

More insanity.

BarryD

I'll be doing my best to avoid it and will continue to give our rural address in the form it's always been in. The post gets here unfailingly, couriers find us and I've never had a problem when ordering online in the past several years... If something ain't broke, why fix it?

Paulw

Paulw wrote: »

A GPS location would be easier to use than eircode. :eek:

None of the major delivery companies (FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc) will be using it, and even An Post won't be using it, because it's a useless addressing system for delivery.

Even the emergency services have expressed concern about it.

More insanity.

Don't get me wrong; I'm very dubious about this system, but what makes it useless for delivery?

Paarthurnax

They have my address wrong for starters, that's not going to help! :mad:

Paulw

Karsini wrote: »

Don't get me wrong; I'm very dubious about this system, but what makes it useless for delivery?

Because the first three characters are your area, and the next 4 are random. So, your neighbour will be totally different last 4 characters than you. For delivery purposes, it won't help them find you since there is no sequence. You can't pack a delivery vehicle based on these codes. The current "postal" address is better.

Even An Post have stated that they won't be using it ... nor will FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. All have said that the current system is better without these new codes.

Paarthurnax

Where did they get there map from I wonder? My area has some glaring errors on it.

SMJSF

I love this
"Limited to 15 searches per day".

Tar.Aldarion

Karsini wrote: »

Don't get me wrong; I'm very dubious about this system, but what makes it useless for delivery?

Limit to searches without paying, inaccuracy, database availability, missing addresses and also couriers have their own system already (not that it doesn't stop them getting lost looking for my place somehow!).

MarkAnthony

Paarthurnax wrote: »

Where did they get there map from I wonder? My area has some glaring errors on it.

It's the land registry map so I'd start to worry if there are many errors on the boundaries!

While the system isn't ideal there are a couple of major positives:

Less fraud with City addresses trying to claim they're 65B and rural address pretending they've never heard of 'that' Paddy Murphy living in the townland ballygobackwards Co. Galway.

Less pissing about from Eircom when other ISPs are trying to locate lines in Ballygobackwards Co. Galway. Ah sure the post get's here :rolleyes:

Paulw

MarkAnthony wrote: »

Less pissing about from Eircom when other ISPs are trying to locate lines in Ballygobackwards Co. Galway. Ah sure the post get's here :rolleyes:

I doubt that eircom will start marking lines with your postcode. ;-) They already have their own internal database of address to line number.

MarkAnthony

Paulw wrote: »

I doubt that eircom will start marking lines with your postcode. ;-) They already have their own internal database of address to line number.

ARD keys - I can imagine a few people putting pressure on the Comreg to include postcodes. It should be a very easy fix. Anyone moving in to a property or a non-unique address is still subject to an Eircom monopoly (where UPC is unavailable).

Dr_Bill

Paulw wrote: »

A GPS location would be easier to use than eircode. :eek:

None of the major delivery companies (FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc) will be using it, and even An Post won't be using it, because it's a useless addressing system for delivery.

Even the emergency services have expressed concern about it.

More insanity.

So how is:
053-20-45.40"N 006-16-35.07W more difficult to use than D07 AYF4

Seriously....

Eugene Norman

Paulw wrote: »

Because the first three characters are your area, and the next 4 are random. So, your neighbour will be totally different last 4 characters than you. For delivery purposes, it won't help them find you since there is no sequence. You can't pack a delivery vehicle based on these codes. The current "postal" address is better.

Even An Post have stated that they won't be using it ... nor will FedEx, UPS, DHL, etc. All have said that the current system is better without these new codes.

Where do people get this from? In the infrastructure thread An Post clearly tweeted they are going to use it. And the codes don't have to be sequential to work when you reverse look up the house or apartment.

Being totally different from your neighbour, will -- unlike the UK system -- stop the mis direction of posts to houses close beside each other because if the address is miles off from the postal code the carrier can call the sender, or return to sender. Fall back of delivering to the address is where we always were before.

foggy_lad

For the emergency services it could cost lives if they use this dysfunctional system, Someone on Liveline said that Celbridge is listed as being NAAS so ambulances could be sent from Naas instead of Celbridge/Maynooth.

also so much for their rude word filter that allows Cockeye Stud

COCK EYE STUD
MOYSTOWN
SHANNON HARBOUR
BIRR
CO. OFFALY
R42 EK54

instead of Cochise stud, Moystown Demesne, Shannon Harbour Birr, Co. Offaly

WhatsGoingOn2

SMJSF wrote: »

I love this
"Limited to 15 searches per day".

Clear your cache after 15 and you get another 15..

lima

It's fantastic that Ireland has moved a little bit further in-line with modern countries. We appeared abroad like a backwards agrarian
society with no infrastructure.

There are always going to be small issues, which hopefully will be sorted out as the product matures

There are always going to be the Irish 'afraid of change' people being negative about it

bajer101

WhatsGoingOn2 wrote: »

Clear your cache after 15 and you get another 15..

Or just open an incognito window.

Del2005

Dr_Bill wrote: »

So how is:
053-20-45.40"N 006-16-35.07W more difficult to use than D07 AYF4

Seriously....

That's not a GPS code that's a location, look at Loc8 for a GPS code.

Problem with the new code is you can't shorten it, every time you put it into a site they'll know all about you, so there's no way you can do anonymous queries.

Pretzill

Forgive me if I seem a wee bit simple here - but how will the eircode help delivery people when its not linked to gps systems?

At the moment they are numbers on a map as is my home address.

Polo_Mint

I like it

Rew

lima wrote: »

It's fantastic that Ireland has moved a little bit further in-line with modern countries. We appeared abroad like a backwards agrarian
society with no infrastructure.

There are always going to be small issues, which hopefully will be sorted out as the product matures

There are always going to be the Irish 'afraid of change' people being negative about it

20 million quid on something isn't great, doesn't work as advertised and others were offering for free isn't small issues.

pwurple

As expected my address shows a point on the map that is not my house... and my house is listed with my neighbours address. So, yeah, it's glaringly inaccurate.

BUT, and this is me really struggling to see any glimmer of a bright side here, at least it's SOMETHING official. A starting point. Because of all places in the first world, Ireland has to be one of the most difficult places to address anywhere. Huge qty's of addresses are not unique (did I hear close to 40%??). Many houses don't have any number or name whatsoever, just "bob mcCarthy" on the Low Road was what you write on the envelope.

Over time it might become useful.

But yeah, out of the box? Broken.

dori_dormer

foggy_lad wrote: »

For the emergency services it could cost lives if they use this dysfunctional system, Someone on Liveline said that Celbridge is listed as being NAAS so ambulances could be sent from Naas instead of Celbridge/ maynooth

The sorting office for North kildare is in Naas. So if you want your post quicker, you put Naas as the postcode. Always did it when living in clane and got my post much faster than without it.

lima

Rew wrote: »

20 million quid on something isn't great, doesn't work as advertised and others were offering for free isn't small issues.

Others?

Any postcode system not owned by the govt is not an official postcode system so there was never any obligation to use it.

Just go back to moaning about water, de banks or whatever is bringing you down today :rolleyes:

languagenerd

lima wrote: »

There are always going to be the Irish 'afraid of change' people being negative about it

Most people complaining about it are not "afraid of change" - I think almost everyone agrees that postcodes are useful, but the Eircode system is entirely unfit for purpose and a waste of money. It offers no benefit to couriers and delivery companies, as it's non-sequential. It offers no real benefit to An Post who already had their own database, and who will still deliver letters without the Eircode in the address.

The ambulance service said only dispatchers have access to it, not drivers, and it will only help in a minority of cases because (a) you can't use it to help you find a place and (b) it won't help them to find emergencies that aren't in a house/business premises.

It won't really benefit the ordinary citizen unless they pay for access to a gps database, because, again, it doesn't help you find a place. I live in the UK atm and I can enter part of my postcode on websites to find the nearest branch of a business, for example, or to get a list of nearby post offices etc. You can't do that with Eircodes, as the generic part refers to an enormous area.

So what benefits have we got for the €20million+ spend?

scrimshanker

lima wrote: »

Others?

Any postcode system not owned by the govt is not an official postcode system so there was never any obligation to use it.

Just go back to moaning about water, de banks or whatever is bringing you down today :rolleyes:

Actually it's fair to complain about millions being squandered on a system that's not fit for purpose. There's a problem with non-unique addresses in Ireland, the solution is not to spend nearly 30 million to implement a system that makes nothing any easier. If there was some logic or sequencing it would be eminently useful for emergency services and couriers. But as it is, it gives no inherent clues to the location that the existing address doesn't already give.

MrVestek

According to the Eircode website my apartment doesn't exist. The two below me do though.

Also each apartment in the same building (converted 3 story house) has a different code. How does that make sense?!

MarkAnthony

MrVestek wrote: »

According to the Eircode website my apartment doesn't exist. The two below me do though.

Also each apartment in the same building (converted 3 story house) has a different code. How does that make sense?!

Each dwelling etc will have it's own code. It's not unexpected that some places have been missed especially converted houses.

Rowley Birkin QC

The lack of hierarchical structure means that reporting on things like houseprices/employment/average income etc. won't be able to happen by Eircode Area/District/Sector/Unit as they do in the UK.

The fact that Google maps doesn't recognise them on launch day is a farce too.

lima

I agree it's not entirely perfect but look, this is the way it is:

1. It is here. Deal with it.
2. If you don't approve, do something about it, else shut up.
3. Try to be positive. Being so negative brings everyone down. Anything new is just put down by a nation of sad negative people.

MarkAnthony

lima wrote: »

I agree it's not entirely perfect but look, this is the way it is:

1. It is here. Deal with it.
2. If you don't approve, do something about it, else shut up.
3. Try to be positive. Being so negative brings everyone down. Anything new is just put down by a nation of sad negative people.

I've agreed for the most part with your posts on this subject by I have to comment on this. Where we've yet again been sadled with a poorly thought through peice of crap instead of a working system we could have just nicked from the UK, or used one of the many systems offered for free, people have a right to complain.

BarryD

MarkAnthony wrote: »

It's the land registry map so I'd start to worry if there are many errors on the boundaries!

Are you serious? If so, it's an interesting slant as when you look at this proposal in the round, you'd be forgiven for suspecting that the real drive behind this is to establish an accurate database of property in the country. Delivering the post might only be a secondary consideration.

I've no major problem with that but I suspect some people might...

Del2005

Pretzill wrote: »

Forgive me if I seem a wee bit simple here - but how will the eircode help delivery people when its not linked to gps systems?

At the moment they are numbers on a map as is my home address.

It doesn't and that's why so many people are complaining about it.

languagenerd

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

The fact that Google maps doesn't recognise them on launch day is a farce too.

Maybe I'm wrong, it's been a while since I properly looked into it, but I thought Google Maps was NEVER going to recognise them?

I remember reading that the Eircode directory was a database you had to pay for access to; surely if that's the case, you won't be able to just plug them into Google Maps?

Paulw

languagenerd wrote: »

I remember reading that the Eircode directory was a database you had to pay for access to; surely if that's the case, you won't be able to just plug them into Google Maps?

That's the problem. With most postcodes worldwide, you can put them in to a satnav or google maps and find the location. But, no, not with the new eircode system. :eek:

Paulw

Paulw wrote: »

That's the problem. With most postcodes worldwide, you can put them in to a satnav or google maps and find the location. But, no, not with the new eircode system. :eek:

Sounds to me like it's doomed to failure then.

lima

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I've agreed for the most part with your posts on this subject by I have to comment on this. Where we've yet again been sadled with a poorly thought through peice of crap instead of a working system we could have just nicked from the UK, or used one of the many systems offered for free, people have a right to complain.

Well it is here and that's it really. People are going to rant on the internet for a while and then accept it.

Not one of you is ever going to do anything constructive to do anything about it

Sorry but I've had enough of people ranting about everything that happens here. If everyone was a little bit more positive then magical things would happen.

I think it's great that we finally have one.

Perhaps this thread should be named 'Postcodes rant'

Kalman

Don't you need postcodes for 'sat-navs.' ?

MarkAnthony

Kalman wrote: »

Don't you need postcodes for 'sat-navs.' ?

Makes life a hell of a lot easier on traditional sat navs, the phone ones in good coverage area are so good these days though. TBH I find my self using google to find the place then feeding the co-ords into the sat nav

<MOD SNIP >

Paulw

lima wrote: »

Well it is here and that's it really. People are going to rant on the internet for a while and then accept it.

Not one of you is ever going to do anything constructive to do anything about it

I've raised my concerns and issues with my TD. Does that count as doing something about it? I guess if others also contacted their TDs then the govt might get the hint.

Sheldons Brain

Paulw wrote: »

That's the problem. With most postcodes worldwide, you can put them in to a satnav or google maps and find the location. But, no, not with the new eircode system. :eek:

Well not today at least. But if people use these then you will.

Carson10

So will these postcodes work on Google Maps?

At the moment the postcode to me is like:

If pie = xc2a x 4dv find pie

languagenerd

lima wrote: »

Well it is here and that's it really. People are going to rant on the internet for a while and then accept it.

Not one of you is ever going to do anything constructive to do anything about it

Sorry but I've had enough of people ranting about everything that happens here. If everyone was a little bit more positive then magical things would happen.

I think it's great that we finally have one.

Perhaps this thread should be named 'Postcodes rant'

Look, I would think it was great, if they were fit for purpose. But they are not. I wrote to TDs, the DCENR, the transport committee and others about it last year but...

I'm sorry, but there is just no way that we can see this positively. No-one is going to benefit from Eircodes. They're utterly useless for all purposes we could want them for. We can't use them with Google Maps or any GPS system. We can't use them to find nearby locations as they're not sequential. I can draw a series of emoticons below the address on an envelope and it will have the same function as writing an Eircode there.

Ok, you think they're great, but honestly, can you tell me what you will use them for?

Dante

Having lived in the UK for the past few years, it is quite surprising that this was not brought in a long time ago.

Trying to explain to the lads at work that my town doesn't have a postcode and that the postman simply 'knows' where to send mail was rather difficult.

lima

languagenerd wrote: »

Look, I would think it was great, if they were fit for purpose. But they are not. I wrote to TDs, the DCENR, the transport committee and others about it last year but...

I'm sorry, but there is just no way that we can see this positively. No-one is going to benefit from Eircodes. They're utterly useless for all purposes we could want them for. We can't use them with Google Maps or any GPS system. We can't use them to find nearby locations as they're not sequential. I can draw a series of emoticons below the address on an envelope and it will have the same function as writing an Eircode there.

Ok, you think they're great, but honestly, can you tell me what you will use them for?

Surely in time they will allow for:

- Ability to search for an address using the postcodes in Google Maps
- Auto-populating forms online by entering your postcode
- Uber/Hailo etc.
- Address verification online


If they don't have a plan for this type of functionality then ok they would appear useless. However they say:

"As Eircode is very new, many retailers and organisations are busy updating their systems to recognise and accept an Eircode. Overtime, you will see more organisations requesting an Eircode and accepting it"


Regarding the randomization - it's not as if phone numbers are sequential and we have done fine with them

Finally, it's not the govt trying to do you over, please embrace change and enjoy the convenience of using postcodes.

matrim

languagenerd wrote: »

Look, I would think it was great, if they were fit for purpose. But they are not. I wrote to TDs, the DCENR, the transport committee and others about it last year but...

I'm sorry, but there is just no way that we can see this positively. No-one is going to benefit from Eircodes. They're utterly useless for all purposes we could want them for. We can't use them with Google Maps or any GPS system. We can't use them to find nearby locations as they're not sequential. I can draw a series of emoticons below the address on an envelope and it will have the same function as writing an Eircode there.

Ok, you think they're great, but honestly, can you tell me what you will use them for?

But sequential wouldn’t work because as soon as someone builds a new house between you and your neighbour (not uncommon in rural areas), your sequential code is gone.

I do think the first common routing code should have been a narrower more logical area instead of based the An Post routing system but if that had been the case you would probably have had people criticising that it doesn't match the An Post database (probably the same people saying that their address is wrong in the database even thought it is from An Post).

One of the main other criticism I would have is the pay per transaction pricing. There should be just a yearly cost for the licensing of the database so that it is easier to integrate into high volume systems like google maps

languagenerd

lima wrote: »

Surely in time they will allow for:

- Ability to search for an address using the postcodes in Google Maps
- Auto-populating forms online by entering your postcode
- Uber/Hailo etc.
- Address verification online


If they don't have a plan for this type of functionality then ok they would appear useless. [...]

Finally, it's not the govt trying to do you over, please embrace change and enjoy the convenience.

From what I've read and been told, they don't have those plans. Eircode is run by a private company, not the govt, and they're selling the database to businesses. The ordinary citizen won't be able to use them with GPS's or Google Maps (unless Google buys it, I guess, but even then it's not clear if they can pass that on to the ordinary web-user).

Auto-populating will only work if the company buys the database. Same with Uber and Hailo, which can get a more exact location from your phone anyway, so why would they buy it?

I don't see any added convenience from having them compared to what we had yesterday. We should have built on the UK one or the American Zipcodes rather than trying to invent something entirely new.