Striking a Balance between vitamin D & reducing your risk of cancer

Do Me Good

What a dilemma this seems to be. Even if you take vitamin D3 supplements, there still is no better way to get vitamin D formation than from the sun. Unless if I take lots of it!! But, if you’re exposing yourself to the sun, you’re increasing your risk of cancer.

As far as I’m aware, most people in this country don’t get enough vitamin D. I mean, how often do we actually spend outside during the winter, and how much of our body is covered up during that time?!

The funny thing is that it probably mightn’t even really matter either way. But every article you read on “skin cancer” or “importance of vitamin D” wouldn’t have you half paranoid, if you were to take their advice literally.

strelok

why would vitamin d from the sun be better than from a supplement?

salmon and eggs are quite high in vit D too, you could stock up on the lidl/aldi tinned pink salmon. 1.19 a tin, 2 servings in each. that's 3.5 tins for the week, grand job

Tar.Aldarion

Do Me Good wrote: »

What a dilemma this seems to be. Even if you take vitamin D3 supplements, there still is no better way to get vitamin D formation than from the sun. Unless if I take lots of it!! But, if you’re exposing yourself to the sun, you’re increasing your risk of cancer.

As far as I’m aware, most people in this country don’t get enough vitamin D. I mean, how often do we actually spend outside during the winter, and how much of our body is covered up during that time?!

The funny thing is that it probably mightn’t even really matter either way. But every article you read on “skin cancer” or “importance of vitamin D” wouldn’t have you half paranoid, if you were to take their advice literally.

Vitamin D3 supplements are fine, i take vegan ones. Something like 70% of EU are deficient so I imagine taking them is a good idea. And you won't get skin cancer from a bit of natural light. Just try to focus on it if you are having trouble, but honestly the supplements are fantastic.

Alf Veedersane

It's not really a dilemma.

Just take a supplement. You won't get enough from the sun.

papu

250ml of supermilk will give you 100% RI of Vitamin D if you're so concerned about it..

Do Me Good

strelok wrote: »

why would vitamin d from the sun be better than from a supplement?

I'm not gonna go into the biochem of it

strelok wrote: »

salmon and eggs are quite high in vit D too, you could stock up on the lidl/aldi tinned pink salmon. 1.19 a tin, 2 servings in each. that's 3.5 tins for the week, grand job

I also don't eat tinned foods

Do Me Good

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Vitamin D3 supplements are fine, i take vegan ones. Something like 70% of EU are deficient so I imagine taking them is a good idea. Just try to focus on it if you are having trouble, but honestly the supplements are fantastic.

I never thought there was anything bad with them, it's just it isn't as good as the vitamin D formed when we're exposed to the sun. It's still good obviously.

It's interesting the way you say the supplements are fantastic... as if you've noticed the results!

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

And you won't get skin cancer from a bit of natural light.

Technically speaking, you are increasing your chances of skin cancer every time you're exposed to the sun, so you're wrong there.

Tar.Aldarion

Do Me Good wrote: »

I never thought there was anything bad with them, it's just it isn't as good as the vitamin D formed when we're exposed to the sun. It's still good obviously.

It's interesting the way you say the supplements are fantastic... as if you've noticed the results!
Technically speaking, you are increasing your chances of skin cancer every time you're exposed to the sun, so you're wrong there.

If it is still good then what is the issue? That you have to take lots of it, it all comes in one pill.

Why isn't it as good btw? Genuinely curious, maybe it is, I'd like to know why. From what I know I don't see why the body converting 7-dehydrocholecalciferol to cholecalciferol is better than taking cholecalciferol. Vitamin D3 is bioactived into its hormone form in less stages via supplementation. In fact any study I've seen has said supplementation is better than sun light. (People taking supplements fare better than those getting the recommended amount of light)

I say they are fantastic because they do what they are for, if you have deficient vitamin D, which most people do, it cures it. There are some parts of the world where you can be in light and not be synthesizing vitamin D for 6 months of the year, it's unreliable, supplementation is not. Mine would have been low, now it is not. Along with all the inverse speculation of vit D and various cancers and other health benefits (along with it being the number 1 thing recommended for supplementation on examine.com), I think that yeah, supplements are fantastic.

ch750536

I take d3 every day Linky, obviously there are lots of useless forms of D about (in cereals etc) but the good ones are out there.

Tar.Aldarion

ch750536 wrote: »

I take d3 every day Linky, obviously there are lots of useless forms of D about (in cereals etc) but the good ones are out there.

I take this, the 2500IU tablets, http://vitashine-d3.com I also take their omega 3

strelok

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

(along with it being the number 1 thing recommended for supplementation on examine.com)

do they have a list? never seen one

linkuh?

Alf Veedersane

strelok wrote: »

do they have a list? never seen one

linkuh?

Doesn't have a list but in the Editor's Thoughts on Vitamin D it says "If there's only one supplement you're taking for your health and your diet is decent, it should probably be Vitamin D. I highly recommend taking Vitamin D instead of a multivitamin most of the time."

SteelyDanJalapeno

I have 5000 IU bottle on my desk in work, I take 1 daily.

I don't believe the RDA is correct.

Alf Veedersane

TiltedBrain wrote: »

I have 5000 IU bottle on my desk in work, I take 1 daily.

I don't believe the RDA is correct.

Even the FSAI said in their 1999 document setting RDA levels that while the RDA is defined as being more than an individual needs it is often regarded as the lowest acceptable intake for the majority of the population.

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah i would always strive to get a good bit above the RDA as it is the minimum, and my bloods are perfect. That is why I don't like the current use of soylent products as some things you would just be getting 100% RDA, that doesn't account for any variation in absorption problems.

papu

Do Me Good wrote: »

I'm not gonna go into the biochem of it

Please do , I would be fascinated how the body differentiates between the two. The fact that for both routes the compound is inactive and requires enzymatic hydroxylation by the livers and kidneys would suggest the body doesn't give a fupp where it comes from. But if you have evidence to suggest otherwise I'd love to hear it.

paralysed

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's not really a dilemma.

Just take a supplement. You won't get enough from the sun.

You're not too bright! The sun gives you wrinkles - hence the dilemma!

Spanish Eyes

Can someone tell me what the RDA is?

Every time I look it up it's different. Some say X some say Y.

Can you take too much?

paralysed

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

And you won't get skin cancer from a bit of natural light.

it's the wrinkles she's worried about!

paralysed

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the RDA is?

Every time I look it up it's different. Some say X some say Y.

Can you take too much?

I read somewhere 100mg somewhere. Usually I take 50 - 100 mg per day. What values did you come across? I just remind myself that there are people getting far less that are fine!

Alf Veedersane

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Can someone tell me what the RDA is?

Every time I look it up it's different. Some say X some say Y.

Can you take too much?

The RDA and what's recommended are different metrics in the sense that the RDA is a minimum level.

It's also given in IU (international units) which can contribute to confusion.

10 micrograms is more a minimum requirements to not have a deficiency. You would have to be taking very large, improbable doses to cause a problem.

paralysed

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The RDA and what's recommended are different metrics in the sense that the RDA is a minimum level.

It's also given in IU (international units) which can contribute to confusion.

10 micrograms is more a minimum requirements to not have a deficiency. You would have to be taking very large, improbable doses to cause a problem.

Yikes I've been taking too much. I could cut back so.

Alf Veedersane

paralysed wrote: »

Yikes I've been taking too much. I could cut back so.

I wouldn't say so. Like I said, that's a very minimum requirement. I've seen studies where they tested levels in different populations with higher natural levels of it and came out with a figure of 5000 IU / 125 micrograms would be about right to get from combo of diet, supplement and natural for adults.

It's only a general figure but indicates you're doing nothing excessive.

ford2600

paralysed wrote: »

Yikes I've been taking too much. I could cut back so.

https://chriskresser.com/vitamin-d-more-is-not-better/

Input from Chris Masterjohn also and the crucial role of Vitamin K & A in relation to Vitamin D.

As an aside I'd be getting fundamentals of diet/lifestyle right before worrying about optimum Vitamin D levels etc.

Last week's podcast on Sigma Nutrition on what really matters with regard to diet for general health was excellent

goat2

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Doesn't have a list but in the Editor's Thoughts on Vitamin D it says "If there's only one supplement you're taking for your health and your diet is decent, it should probably be Vitamin D. I highly recommend taking Vitamin D instead of a multivitamin most of the time."

just lately, there is alot of information going round about v D that it is good at keeping the flu and colds this time of yr at bay and for many other reasons, anyone with information on this

joefromireland

goat2 wrote: »

just lately, there is alot of information going round about v D that it is good at keeping the flu and colds this time of yr at bay and for many other reasons, anyone with information on this

Low Vitamin One Sign of Sunlight Deficiency
A low vitamin D level found in the blood is one sign of sunlight deficiency, just like high blood cholesterol is one sign of eating too much meat and cheese. A far-reaching campaign has been launched by doctors, health organizations, supplement companies, and pharmaceutical industries to fix the problem of sunlight deficiency with pills.

Vitamin D Pills Are of Little or No Benefit and Some Harm. So What to Do Now?

According to popular opinions coming from friends, family, and physicians, most people are vitamin D deficient and in need of supplementation with pills. Evidence suggests that more than 40% of the world's population is vitamin D deficient (1). A recent report from a Scottish doctor found only 2% of his patients had a sufficient vitamin D concentration (75 nmol/L or above), and 47% had a severe deficiency (below 25 nmol/L) (2). Low vitamin D levels found in the blood are a clear indication that there is a worldwide problem of sunlight deficiency. Rather than correct the problem and encourage people to expose themselves to more of this natural element, the solution has become another drug — a supplement pill sold as vitamin D.
Full article and references https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2010nl/mar/vitd.htm


Worries over vitamin D, once known as “the sunshine vitamin,” have turned hundreds of millions of people into patients with worse, not better, health. The latest, and likely the final, analyses of the studies performed on treating people with vitamin D supplements has shown that this multiple billion-dollar business does not work. The authors, after thoroughly examining the results of nearly a quarter-million people from 46 major randomized trials, conclude: “Our findings suggest that vitamin D supplementation with or without calcium does not reduce skeletal or non-skeletal outcomes in unselected community-dwelling individuals by more than 15%. Future trials with similar designs are unlikely to alter these conclusions.”

Vitamin D supplements are so powerless that the benefits of supplements can only be seen at the extremes of need, such as with institutionalized elderly women (and even then the benefits are with a combination of vitamin D and calcium, not vitamin D alone).

Full article and references
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2015nl/mar/vitamind.htm


See what Conor Kerley Chairperson of the Scientific and Research Steering Group at Irish Nutrition and Dietetics Institute has to say about vitamin D in the first few minutes of this video on diet and MS

Youtube video on Vitamin D Supplements are Harmful, Industry and the US Dietary Guidelines

I am going to do some research into getting a replacement bulb from a sunlamp to see if I could make some vitamin D from a sunlamp not sure it a good idea but I am going to do some research into it.

Alf Veedersane

Is there anything in that text on why it's harmful?

Also, it only references intake of calcium with vitamin d and not other minerals which would have an impact on its absorption etc.

Zillah

I'd be wary of that McDougall fella. He thinks most disease is caused by diet, including a stroke he had at 18. Meat is killing you, supposedly. He neglects to mention, for example, that the study about Vitamin D supplementation above was about massive yearly doses of Vitamin D all at once rather than spread out over the year. Also, those pictures of the planet earth trying to suggest that rank correlation with no exploration or actual data is all you need are a shitshow.

He also relies on selling treatment programmes through his own website, which has never been a good sign.

Alf Veedersane

Just read the link and the bit on Vitamin D supplementation causing broken bones. So 2 test groups were given a massive dose in one go and had higher levels of fractures.

The best bit though is when it goes on to conclude that "The mechanism for these adverse turn of events is unknown but supplementation may cause muscle weaknesses and nervous system imbalances that result in more falls and fractures."

So he had no idea why the results were the way they were but decided to engage in some wild speculation and provided no basis for the speculation.

Pretty sure that he scienced badly there.

joefromireland

Zillah wrote: »

I'd be wary of that McDougall fella. He thinks most disease is caused by diet, including a stroke he had at 18. Meat is killing you, supposedly. He neglects to mention, for example, that the study about Vitamin D supplementation above was about massive yearly doses of Vitamin D all at once rather than spread out over the year. Also, those pictures of the planet earth trying to suggest that rank correlation with no exploration or actual data is all you need are a shitshow.

He also relies on selling treatment programmes through his own website, which has never been a good sign.

Well I be wary of any doctor or person who says diet does not cause or affect the progress of most of the top diseases: heart disease , type 2 diabetes, blood pressure ,stroke, many cancers,gout ,obesity, atherosclerosis and many more diseases.
And yes meat may be killing you ,I like to remind you that the World Health Organization has classified processed meats – including ham, salami, sausages and hot dogs – as a Group 1 carcinogen which means that there is strong evidence that processed meats cause cancer. Red meat, such as beef, lamb and pork has been classified as a 'probable' cause of cancer.

He does not neglect to mention, that two of the studys about Vitamin D supplementation was about massive yearly doses of Vitamin D all at once, he clearly states this in the article, this was not hidden in a link it was in the main body of one of the articles where you seen it, however there are over 30 articles referenced in the two links I referenced that questions how effective vitamin D pills are. Dr McDougall said" The benefits from taking pills are very limited and there are adverse side effects. The lesson is: Natural is best when it comes to food and sunshine. "

If you dont like what Doctor McDougall has to say perhaps you could look up Doctor Bob Clare full article at.
http://robertclaremd.com/im-skeptical-about-vitamin-d-and-calcium-supplements/

I’m skeptical about … vitamin D and calcium supplements.

Here’s what Dr. Joseph Mercola had to say about vitamin D (right beside his ad hawking a month’s supply of the stuff for $29.97): “There’s very few supplements I recommend for almost everyone but vitamin D is one of them.” And this from Life Extension Magazine: “Why isn’t everyone supplementing with Vitamin D?” Finally, from Dr. Mehmet Oz: “If I could think of one vitamin to push to everybody to get into their lives, it’s vitamin D.” Make no mistake, vitamin D is the “it girl” of the vitamin world—the sleek, sexy cure-all for falls, fractures, muscle weakness, heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes, asthma, and multiple sclerosis. A few years ago, on Good Morning America, Diane Sawyer stated that: “One-hundred million Americans have vitamin D deficiency. Think about it—one-hundred million of us, including children.” Americans listened, and now more than one-hundred million Americans are taking some form of vitamin D supplement. But if vitamin D is so great, then why did the USPSTF (US Preventative Services Task Force) recommend against using it at current doses in postmenopausal women to prevent fractures, the very group touted to have the greatest need?


Bottom line is there is a very big question mark as to how effective vitamin D pills are and the side effects they have.

Alf Veedersane

The only studies that came back with results on postmenopausal women found little /no impact on cardiovascular disease or risk of breast cancer. The impact on bone health wasn't being investigated.

The application of science isn't about digging put individual studies to support a position. It's about what the bulk of the studies say...it's about consensus.

The benefits of Vitamin D are probably overstated for some things but there are worthwhile benefits for supplementing with it.