Reasoning for cramping?

Amprodude

I did a race there recently and was comfortable until I was dropped on last lap. My legs got cramped up and so they effected my overall performance and I couldnt continue. I was fine only for that happening. I just don't know where to Start. I drank 1.5 bottles of fluid during race, i had gels and protein bars and I kept out of the wind. My training intensity had dropped over the last few weeks due to work commitments at so my fitness may have dropped but I need to know how I can prevent this from happening in the future. Is there any vitamins I could be short off beside my lack of fitness? Thanks.

ThisRegard

Isn't the general consensus in the medical world that there's no definitive reason as to why cramps happen? I know some swear by dioralyte but I've still cramped with it.

Amprodude

ThisRegard wrote: »

Isn't the general consensus in the medical world that there's no definitive reason as to why cramps happen? I know some swear by dioralyte but I've still cramped with it.

It has happened me few times this year and it's now beginning to worry me. Possible lack of fitness but only for that happening I would be fine so I just don't know.

Brian?

ThisRegard wrote: »

Isn't the general consensus in the medical world that there's no definitive reason as to why cramps happen? I know some swear by dioralyte but I've still cramped with it.

No, there is a definitive reason. Cramp is caused by dehydration, which is why dioralyte stops cramp.

Edit:dehydration isn't the only cause, but it is the cause here.

ted1

Apparently bad ankles can cause cramps in calfs.

ford2600

http://sportsscientists.com/2007/11/muscle-cramps-part-i/

Part 1 of 5 I think. Enjoy.

Amprodude

Brian? wrote: »

No, there is a definitive reason. Cramp is caused by dehydration, which is why dioralyte stops cramp.

Edit:dehydration isn't the only cause, but it is the cause here.

I drank loads of fluids day before race and a bottle of luzocade sport before and during the race. I was drinking and eating regularly during race.

FISMA.

Amprodude wrote: »

My legs got cramped up and so they effected my overall performance and I couldnt continue.

I would bet that all of the sweating you have done has left you are deficient in salt or some other electrolytic imbalance.

Lucozade never made the grade for me, I always preferred Gatorade.

Also, how much did you drink during the race and how long was it?

A banana is always great for cramps, but not quite easily eaten during a race.

Try a sports drink link Gatorade and see what happens.

68 lost souls

What were you drinking during the race?

Water alone is not recommended as you can overhydrate with water and cramp as a result of that, in fact just last week at Ironman Frankfurt a competitor died from drinking just water. You need to replace the salts and minerals as well.

Something like dioralite or high 5 zero will help this.

ThisRegard

Brian? wrote: »

No, there is a definitive reason. Cramp is caused by dehydration, which is why dioralyte stops cramp.

Edit:dehydration isn't the only cause, but it is the cause here.

That's the thing, dehydration, previously thought to be the reason, is no longer the sole suspect. Each time I've cramped before I'd be certain it wasn't specific to dehydration.

ROK ON

For me I have narrowed cramp down to - hard high cadence efforts.
It doesn't appear that hydration is a factor - I have been dehydrated in 42degrees on a 210km cycle in the Pyreneesnand had no cramps.
I have read somewhere (will try to dig it out) that cramp in some can be related to a lack of fitness or leg strength.
But I have cramped in cold, in heat. With plenty of fluid and with none. The consistency would seem to be hard high cadence efforts when there is a change in cadence - ie going from flat to a steep incline where my cadence would drop despite gearing.

For some it could be simply hydration.

ford2600

Taken for Part 11 of link posted above
In a 2004 study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, Professor Schwellnus and his colleagues examined runners before and after the Two Oceans 56 km marathon in Cape Town [3]. They measured quite a few variables, but since we are discussing changes in electrolytes and hydration, we will talk about those results. Remember that many people, both scientist and personal trainer alike, will profess that cramps are caused by dehydration and/or some disturbance in the electrolytes (sodium, potassium, magnesium, etc.) So the important finding from this 2004 study was that when the crampers were compared to the controls—who were matched for body mass and finishing time—the only differences were that the crampers had lower sodiums and higher magnesiums. The problem with this is that a lower sodium concentration suggests overhydration and not dehydration, and also if magnesium deficiency is meant to cause cramps then surely the crampers should have been lower here?

CRAMPERS (N = 21)
CONTROLS (N = 22)
Sodium 139.8 ± 2.1 142.3 ± 2.1
Potassium 4.9 ± 0.6 4.7 ± 0.5
Magnesium 0.73 ± 0.1 0.67 ± 0.1
Osmolality 280 ± 6 284 ± 10
The relevance of this study is that if dehydration and electrolyte disturbances really play such a large role in cramps (as they are proposed to), then the crampers should have much higher electrolyte concentrations since they would be losing fluid and causing the concentrations to rise. Yet instead we see something entirely different, first that the crampers had lower sodium concentrations, and second that the crampers were not really different compared to the controls.

What is also noteworthy from this study was that the crampers had an average loss of body weight of 2.9%, compared to 3.6% for the non-cramping controls. In otherwords, the people who DID NOT cramp lost more weight than the people who did. It goes further than this, because Schwellnus et al were able to measure the change in plasma volume as well – a more direct measure for what is happening to fluids. Here, they found that the crampers actually gained a small amount of 0.2% during the race. The non-cramping control subjects LOST 0.7%. So the sum effect of this data is that it suggests very strongly that cramping is not associated with dehydration, or with lower serum electrolyte levels, which is what we have had drilled into us for many years!

Tec Diver

In the book Waterlogged, by Prof Tim Noakes, he has done a lot of research on this and still there isn't a definitive answer. But he does say it *may* be a nervous system issue. Hydration could be a contributor, but not 100% the root cause.

ThisRegard

ROK ON wrote: »

For me I have narrowed cramp down to - hard high cadence efforts.
It doesn't appear that hydration is a factor

Similar to my experiences. I've never cramped when just cycling, nor have I ever cramped when just out for a run, no matter the distance, temperature or terrain.

The first time I ever cramped was during a combination of the two, on the first cycle leg while doing Gaelforce. The second time was pretty much at the exact same point on the course the following year, so I figure it was simply due to the change in how I was using my legs. Once I stretched it out, didn't need to stop or anything, it was fine for the next few hours of the race.

Last time I cramped I was just sitting on the couch, I've no idea what that was all about. And every time it has been my right calf.

macnab

I usually find leg cramps affect me after a period of light or no training i.e. a month off due to bad weather or a chest infection.
I put this down to a lowering of my lactic threshold. When I am fit I can cycle for long periods at a heart rate of 172bpm, if my fitness drops then I need to keep my heart rate below 165bpm or I will experience leg cramps.
I don't race but I commute at a fast pace i.e. 26kmph to 32kmph depending on weather conditions.

nilhg

I occasionally suffer from cramps, but only ever in my right leg while on the bike, usually they'll be in the groin but very occasionally my calf, they only happen at the end of a long hard day usually if I've been grinding rather than spinning. If dehydration was the cause you'd imagine both legs would suffer from cramps, personally in my case I put the cause down to some slight imbalance left as a result of a bad break I had in that leg nearly 30 years ago.
I presume a specialised bike fit might possibly improve things, but I moved my cleats back on my shoes a little after reading something on the net and it does seem to have improved things a little.

Just as a FYI when I started on an inhaler for my asthma (Symbicort) I started to get cramps in my arms, nothing to do with exercise, and the consultant I was with at the time told me it was a known side effect, and said I was to play around with the dose and timing to get the best effect on the asthma and least amount of cramps, about half the prescribed dose works for me, but I'll up it if needs be.

petethedrummer

I get cramps. Always happens in the same places, the sites of old injuries. It has nothing to do with hydration in my case.

McTigs

magnesium spray is the job for this

or the oral magnesium supplement crushed with the back of a spoon and added to water with smidgen of unrefined sea salt

foxer3640

I've suffered badly from cramps in the past but a couple of things have really helped. I sweat a lot at work so I pop a zero tab in my bottle of water every day to drink at work. I also take 2 magnesium citrate tablets every morning during race season. No cramping for a while now thankfully.

Amprodude

foxer3640 wrote: »

I've suffered badly from cramps in the past but a couple of things have really helped. I sweat a lot at work so I pop a zero tab in my bottle of water every day to drink at work. I also take 2 magnesium citrate tablets every morning during race season. No cramping for a while now thankfully.

Can I ask where did you get those magnesium citrate tablets? Might give them a go.

siochain

Have a good deep tissue massage, some Epsom salt baths, sose up on magnesium, potassium and taurine and you should be grand. You might look into ZMA before bed and using a grid roller before and after training sessions.

BMCC1

I think your issue is down to the fact that you were in race conditions and you probably encountered muscle intensities that you had probably not been used to in recent weeks/months. You say you were 'comfortable' but comfortable in race conditions can be very different from the normal use of the word eg it is very different than being comfortable in say a Sportif.

I also have suffered from cramps but having researched it quite a bit I noted that it was only ever in races and typically following a period of relaxed training - in other words the race environment created a type of muscle intensity that you had just not been prepared for. As soon as I trained a bit better and added a bit of intensity the problem was solved.

I would also agree with those posters who say it is not down to fluid, lack of minerals etc. I have also raced in many and varied conditions and my cramps had no correlation with the conditions or my perceived sweat levels. This is now backed up by most of the literature on the subject ..... assuming you are not starting off from a depleted position and have basic nutritional cop on. I can link all of my cramp incidents to encountering a type of intensity in a race that I hadn't replicated (or near replicated) in recent training.

Sacksian

I've never suffered from cramps when running but I did as a kid playing football and it was always in the last five-ten minutes of a tough match. Having read other's people's experiences of cramping, it seems to be some form of muscular endurance issue - maybe a specific type of endurance at a certain intensity or threshold.

Obviously, that doesn't discount hydration as an influence, but I always think that protection against cramping would be better served, firstly, by better training rather than better fuelling, including hydration.

ThisRegard

"Professional" soccer players seem to fall down with cramp all the time, I don't think training is the resolution either, some of the top people in endurance sports can suffer it too and they do nothing but train.

BMCC1

ThisRegard wrote: »

"Professional" soccer players seem to fall down with cramp all the time, I don't think training is the resolution either, some of the top people in endurance sports can suffer it too and they do nothing but train.

Yeah but I'd argue that normally the soccer players are cramping in extra time in important games - where they are playing for longer and more intensely than they might normally do. Same with the endurance athletes - its not about training, more that they didn't train adequately for the intensity or peculiarities of the specific event. Camps being the first manifestation of fatigue! I just know that in every bike race where I ever cramped there was always an element of something (repeated accelerations, longer period at higher intensity etc) that I hadn't trained for recently.

Lusk_Doyle

Could position on the bike have anything to do with it? Saddle too high/low or forward/back or your position on the saddle?

foxer3640

Any good health food shop should have them.

uphillonly

BMCC1 wrote: »

I just know that in every bike race where I ever cramped there was always an element of something (repeated accelerations, longer period at higher intensity etc) that I hadn't trained for recently.

Agree with this.

I read a lot into cramp after suffering over the years and training seems to be the key. I actually see it as a good sign that I'm putting in a hard effort if I get cramp signs but also a sign that I need to be stronger.

Pros cramp in races but I don't think I've ever seen them stop. I found a few changes of position, in & out of the saddle, and I can continue pedalling but definitely no sudden hard efforts.

One thing I remember reading was that it is largely genetic whether you are predisposed to it. My mum has always suffered from cramp. I have friend of similar ability who would drink nothing on a long ride & never cramped while I was carefully knocking back electrolytes etc.

Agree also that using different muscle groups can be a trigger. I've learnt not to do the occasional run before a bike race. Better to be running regularly or not at all.

ba

would agree with cramp being related to training as opposed to hydration myself.

I used to cramp going up howth hill years ago, which seems ridiculous now. then after my first few open races, but never since.

DKmac

The latest theories on cramping are that it is down to muscle fatigue and a breakdown in neural communication to the muscles. The muscles normal cycle is to contract and relax however in times of high intensity and when the muscle is asked to do more work than is the norm they can become twitchy indicating some imbalance in the neural control of this cycle. Basically under intense pressure there's a breakdown in this communication and the muscle stays in a contracted state.
Their is some ideas in that nutrition such as mineral deficiencies or dehydration can lead to general cramping but studies do not link these to excersize induced cramping.
In order to avoid cramping you would need to train at race intensity more often. Elite sportspeople get cramps when they are asked to perform at a higher level or for longer periods than is the norm.

death1234567

ROK ON wrote: »

For me I have narrowed cramp down to - hard high cadence efforts.

I'm no scientist but I thought this would be common sense for cycling. Cramp is caused by lactic acid building up in your muscles (at least I think that's the cause). This lactic acid comes from anaerobic exercise where your muscles are working with an oxygen deficiency, i.e. you're giving it the beans. To avoid this when cycling stay in lower gears and have a high cadence so the muscles in your legs are working aerobically and your heart/lungs and other muscles that don't produce lactic acid are doing the work. This way you won't get cramp in your legs. I'm not sure on the science but I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to back up this theory.

The hydration/electrolyte theory (I think) was just based on the idea that if you are dehydrated it'll be harder for your body to "wash out" the lactic acid that's built up in your muscles.

Conclusion --> Spinning is Winning. Just look at Chris Froome and his high cadence.

CramCycle

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Could position on the bike have anything to do with it? Saddle too high/low or forward/back or your position on the saddle?

It could, over or under working some areas, under or over utilisation. I certainly suffered badly from cramps before my bike fit when I pushed it out over a long distance.

DKmac

death1234567 wrote: »

I'm no scientist but I thought this would be common sense for cycling. Cramp is caused by lactic acid building up in your muscles (at least I think that's the cause). This lactic acid comes from anaerobic exercise where your muscles are working with an oxygen deficiency, i.e. you're giving it the beans. To avoid this when cycling stay in lower gears and have a high cadence so the muscles in your legs are working aerobically and your heart/lungs and other muscles that don't produce lactic acid are doing the work. This way you won't get cramp in your legs. I'm not sure on the science but I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to back up this theory.

The hydration/electrolyte theory (I think) was just based on the idea that if you are dehydrated it'll be harder for your body to "wash out" the lactic acid that's built up in your muscles.

Conclusion --> Spinning is Winning. Just look at Chris Froome and his high cadence.

Correct, you are not a scientist.
Muscles do not produce lactic acid during exercise. They produce lactate and is not produced as a waste product of anaerobic excersize. It’s actually a link between anaerobic and aerobic.

Lactate accumulation in the muscles actually delays fatigue as lactate produced during exercise can be “recycled” into glucose and used as fuel by the muscles. The thinking is now that elite athletes do not produce less lactate but actually use it more efficiently as fuel.

Craig06

Check this out;

http://www.skratchlabs.com/pages/faq

Allen Lim is a sports scientist. Maybe answer a few questions.

ian_rush

In my experience cramp is always related to doing bigger efforts than I am used to. Either going faster than normal or longer than normal, fluids, electrolytes and heat have had no major impact but that is just me. If I train for the speed or distance I won't cramp, If I don't train I will cramp. That said, I suspect the reason trained athletes cramp and the reasons Freds like myself cramp can be quite different.

YeahOK

For me anyway it was hydration. Cramp so bad one day I couldn't swing my legs over the bike to get off it. Spent 5 mins stuck at the side of the road doubled over the bike repeatedly saying sh*t, sh*t, sh*t and waiting for my legs that were locked solid to ease. Realised when I did manage to get off the bike that the lady who owned the house I was stopped outside was just inside the garden wall I was stopped at tending to her flowers. I'm sure she was wondering wtf was wrong me. Mind you I could have been having a heart attack and she didn't once ask was I okay......