How can I stop my father from kissing me?

LegacyUser

I had a thoroughly miserable childhood, with my father using me as a punchbag to get all of his aggressions out on. My mother just watched and never intervened. Finally, when I was 16 my father moved out. Unfortunately he still comes to stay once or twice a year. I'm 31 now (I'm female) but I still live with my mother. This is because I can't manage alone. I have severe depression and two very serious physical illnesses, including rheumatoid arthritis, which is so severe that I can't even use the toilet properly unaided. I hate having my father come to stay. He makes me feel so uncomfortable that while he is here I just stay in my room and try to avoid him, but he won't leave me alone. Every couple of hours he is banging on my door, calling me, and won't go away. He just barges in if I don't answer the door. And every single time, multiple times a day, he kisses me. It's not just a peck on the cheek. He grabs my head with both hands, yanks it forcefully towards him while I try to struggle away and tilts it to one side, brushes my hair away so my neck is exposed and then slobbers all over my neck, face and head, making groaning-with-pleasure noises while he does it. It makes me absolutely sick. I think it is a completely inappropriate way to kiss your own daughter, especially when she is trying to fight you off the whole time. As if that's not bad enough, he has very seriously bad breath and BO, the stink of him is just incredibly, and the stink lingers on me after he has assaulted me in this way. I've asked my mum to tell him to stop kissing me but she won't intervene, just like she never intervened when he was beating me. I have nowhere else to go while he is here. How can I stop him from kissing me? I thought of saying that I have a cold or infection, but he won't care, it won't stop him. If I order him outright not to kiss me he probably won't listen and my mother will have a go at me for making a fuss. Please just think of a way I can stop it. It's no good giving me suggestions for how to move out or claim benefits, I've already looked into it and the support is not available.

b_mac2

That's a job for the Gardaí, without a doubt.

zoobizoo

Have you the strength to push him away or can you shout at him?

Actually, you could just spray some mosquito repellant on your neck in the short term.


It is totally inappropriate and if he was doing that to a minor he'd be reported .

Can you fit a lock to your door?

Neyite

It's unwanted physical contact, and pretty sexualised too. No wonder you are cringing. It's a disgusting assault on someone who has limited mobility and is a sitting duck for it. The only thing I can think of is to report him to the Gardai for it. They may be able to ensure that he is unable come near the house by way of a barring order or safety order.

That's a huge step of course. And not one to take lightly. As well as that, you'd need to know if your mother would abide by any order or would she be likely to kick you out in favour of him, considering that she enables him in coming and going all he likes?

Please talk to Womens Aid too. They are familiar with all kinds of familial dynamics where control and coercion are involved. They can let you know what kinds of things can be done to help you.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately I've already explained the situation to two social workers and neither of them thought it sounded serious enough to warrant helping me. If I called the police my mother would throw me out and I have nowhere to go. I've already checked if I'd be entitled to benefits or help and it doesn't look like it. So I am stuck here. I really need advice on the best way to make this stop without needing to get outside people involved.

CaraMay

What about women's aid? Have you talked to them? Is there a shelter nearby. Have you friends / relatives to visit while he is there?

vertmann

Who did you contact regarding benefits or help? I find it hard to believe that your only option is to stay at home. Or that those social workers don't think what's going on is serious? You really need to get out of there because you're at the mercy of both of these people. I really dread to think what could yet happen to you, especially if something happened to your mother.

Have you tried contacting the free legal aid people?
Women's Aid?
Rape Crisis centre?

Maybe they might be able to give you better information?

LegacyUser

Aged 16 and again aged about 25 I contacted social services, explaining the situation and asking for help with being moved somewhere else, getting benefits, etc. When I was 16 the bloke from social services just said, "Well you're old enough to leave home so just go," and wouldn't help further. When I tried again aged 25 the social worker just said there are long waiting lists for everything and really didn't seem to think it was a serious situation. The thing is, I don't actually particularly want to move out of home because of this. Bear in mind that my father comes to visit for maybe one or two weeks per year. So basically even if I did get help to move out, I would be putting myself in a worse situation, living on benefits, hand-to-mouth, left alone all day with maybe a carer coming to help me a couple of hours a day, and I would be like this 52 weeks a year, just in order to avoid seeing my father for a week or two. Listen, it's not helping me that people are just telling me to call the police or get out. It's easy for you to just say "call womens aid and get out" when it's not you in the situation. What I was hoping for is for someone to help me come up with a strategy for dealing with the situation while remaining at home - what kind of a reaction should I have towards my father that stops his behaviour and gets him to leave me alone, without needing to get outside people involved? Hundreds of people read this site - surely someone out there must have been in a similar situation?

loalae

hemakesmesick wrote: »

Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately I've already explained the situation to two social workers and neither of them thought it sounded serious enough to warrant helping me. If I called the police my mother would throw me out and I have nowhere to go. I've already checked if I'd be entitled to benefits or help and it doesn't look like it. So I am stuck here. I really need advice on the best way to make this stop without needing to get outside people involved.

Are you sure? I'm a social worker and my first thought on reading your op was that as a result of your limited mobility and mental health concerns that you could be considered a vulnerable adult being abused. This man is sexually assaulting you - report him to the gardai.

dellas1979

hemakesmesick wrote: »

while he is here

Hi OP bit confused. Are you at home or is he visiting you some where else (for how long?). Is it possible to change locks?

You need to take the bull by the horns, and correct the boundaries he is over stepping and saying "this is not appropriate Dad. STOP". Be very firm.

bee06

dellas1979 wrote: »

Hi OP bit confused. Are you at home or is he visiting you some where else (for how long?). Is it possible to change locks?

You need to take the bull by the horns, and correct the boundaries he is over stepping and saying "this is not appropriate Dad. STOP". Be very firm.

She lives at home with her mother. The father doesn't live there but comes to visit.

OP, keep telling your social workers and demand a new one if your current one isn't taking you seriously.

loalae

hemakesmesick wrote: »

Aged 16 and again aged about 25 I contacted social services, explaining the situation and asking for help with being moved somewhere else, getting benefits, etc. When I was 16 the bloke from social services just said, "Well you're old enough to leave home so just go," and wouldn't help further. When I tried again aged 25 the social worker just said there are long waiting lists for everything and really didn't seem to think it was a serious situation. The thing is, I don't actually particularly want to move out of home because of this. Bear in mind that my father comes to visit for maybe one or two weeks per year. So basically even if I did get help to move out, I would be putting myself in a worse situation, living on benefits, hand-to-mouth, left alone all day with maybe a carer coming to help me a couple of hours a day, and I would be like this 52 weeks a year, just in order to avoid seeing my father for a week or two. Listen, it's not helping me that people are just telling me to call the police or get out. It's easy for you to just say "call womens aid and get out" when it's not you in the situation. What I was hoping for is for someone to help me come up with a strategy for dealing with the situation while remaining at home - what kind of a reaction should I have towards my father that stops his behaviour and gets him to leave me alone, without needing to get outside people involved? Hundreds of people read this site - surely someone out there must have been in a similar situation?

What social services did you contact? Was it primary care or the social welfare? Have you spoken about this issue with your father to the social worker who is connected the psychiatrist or gp who deals with your mental health? Have you spoken to the medical professionals who deal with your mobility issues about how your father takes advantage of your lack of mobility to abuse you? If not, you need to do so. Have none one them referred you to adult services? If not, they are guilty of some form of negligence.

At this point if your mother is not willing to protect you from your father you must look to outside help. You've tried stopping him yourself and it hasn't worked. Fact of the matter is he is taking advantage of a situation where you cannot protect yourself - that makes him an abuser. The only way to deal with an abuser is to either remove yourself or ensure that he is removed.

Neyite

Ok, so you don't want to move out, or contact Gardai or Women's Aid. Then the only suggestion I have left is to find out when he is due to stay, and stay with friends or other relatives for the extent of his stay. Or, is it possible to have a friend stay for that time if you cant temporarily move out?

You are not going to be able to talk him out of his behaviour, I'm afraid. To be blunt, if he gave a single fcuk about your feelings, he would have stopped the first time he realised that he'd overstepped the line and upset you. So it doesn't matter what you say to someone like that. He will do what he wants because its what he wants to do and he knows that he can overpower you to do it. There are no consequences for him, you see. Your mother pretends its not happening, he knows that you wont report him, nor will your mother. The only way someone like this stops if if the Authorities stop him, or the victim removes themselves from his reach.

You shouldn't be so quick to assume that nobody posting have never needed to talk to organisations about benefits, abuse or a difficult domestic situation. Many contributors on this forum offer advice based on their own experiences of talking to Women's Aid, social workers, social welfare etc.

I hope that someone posts and comes up with solutions for you. It sounds like a terrible thing to go through.

macplato

hemakesmesick wrote: »

I thought of saying that I have a cold or infection, but he won't care, it won't stop him. If I order him outright not to kiss me he probably won't listen and my mother will have a go at me for making a fuss.

OP, is there a possibility that this is one big misunderstanding? Have you actually told him that what he is doing bothers you and you want him to stop?

I have seen what you have described being done on young children or even teenagers by their parents or grandparents as a sign of affection - the kids don't like it, they cringe and pull away, but some people think the whole thing is hilarious. Perhaps your father is trying to make up for past abuse by being overly affectionate? I agree with you and everyone else - what he is doing is completely inappropriate, but it may be a result of him being a bit clueless, and if that's the case, unless he is told, he won't know any better.

You need to tell him the next time he tries to kiss you: "Dad, please stop! I don't want you to kiss me like that, I really don't like it. Please don't do it again". You say he probably won't listen - but unless you ask him to stop, you won't know if he will listen. Perhaps telling him, firmly, that you want him to stop is all you need to do here.

LegacyUser

hemakesmesick wrote: »

Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately I've already explained the situation to two social workers and neither of them thought it sounded serious enough to warrant helping me. If I called the police my mother would throw me out and I have nowhere to go. I've already checked if I'd be entitled to benefits or help and it doesn't look like it. So I am stuck here. I really need advice on the best way to make this stop without needing to get outside people involved.

I wonder how you explained this to the social workers you spoke to. Like someone else mentioned earlier, it does sound sexualised, and you've made it perfectly clear that its inappropriate and you don't want him to do it. Because of his history with you, and that you're in an incredibly vulnerable position with your illness which obviously makes defending yourself impossible, it should definitely be considered serious enough to warrant some investigation/intervention. Maybe its possible that you didn't give enough detail and describe fully whats happening, or described it simply as he kisses you and you wish he wouldnt? You described it here as an assault, which it is - maybe you need to be more firm and describe it as such for the social worker. Otherwise, you should make a complaint to the gardai, or try to find someone more senior than the social workers you previously dealt with because what you've said is serious, and should certainly not be ignored.

bee06

macplato wrote: »

I have seen what you have described being done on young children or even teenagers by their parents or grandparents as a sign of affection - the kids don't like it, they cringe and pull away, but some people think the whole thing is hilarious. Perhaps your father is trying to make up for past abuse by being overly affectionate?

OP's father is making "groaning-with-pleasure" noises while kissing her ... This sounds like it's quite a bit more serious than a sign of affection.

macplato

bee06 wrote: »

OP's father is making "groaning-with-pleasure" noises while kissing her ... This sounds like it's quite a bit more serious than a sign of affection.

See, unless we witness the situation, we can't possibly know what kind of sound this is. All we have are OPs words and our own assumptions. The kind of noises many parents and grandparents make when enthusiastically, playfully kissing their children/grandchildren could certainly be described as "groaning with pleasure".

I have no idea what is happening in these situations, and neither do you. It could be sinister, it could be innocent, we just can't know this. All we know is that OPs father's behaviour is unwelcome, and we also know that the OP hasn't explained to her father how uncomfortable it makes her feel. Chances are that he is just clueless, and that he will stop when asked.

dudara

@macplato - Our involvement as posters isn't to second guess the OP, it's to offer helpful and constructive advice. Irrespective of the father's intentions, he is making the OP highly uncomfortable. Let's focus on giving the OP advice on how to deal with this.

dudara

Rubberchikken

I'm sorry to read what you're going through.
It sounds like very inappropriate and unwelcome behaviour and if it were any other man people might listen better.

If you want it to stop then tell these social workers that this is what you want. They will have people above them, so you could take it further up the chain if you feel they are not listening.

A community garda could be spoken to also.
Father or not, if you don't want him to touch you in this way you are perfectly entitled to get him to stop.

I'm also really sorry that your mother can't/won't stand up to him and defend you.

Merkin

Under what guise is this scumbag coming to stay? Your parents are obviously estranged so is it for him to come and play the doting father? Is he still involved with your mother in some way? Do you have siblings? His habitual sexual assault is totally unacceptable (and it is sexual assault) so I would urge you to make sure you're not there when he comes to stay. Have you people you can stay with for a week or two? Or put money by for a B & B when you know he'll be there? There's no point in having a strategy in how to deal with this in realtime, you're evidently physically compromised due to your RA and he's a bully so I think complete avoidance is your best bet. The situation as it is is completely intolerable.

LegacyUser

Merkin wrote: »

Under what guise is this scumbag coming to stay? Your parents are obviously estranged so is it for him to come and play the doting father? Is he still involved with your mother in some way? Do you have siblings? His habitual sexual assault is totally unacceptable (and it is sexual assault) so I would urge you to make sure you're not there when he comes to stay. Have you people you can stay with for a week or two? Or put money by for a B & B when you know he'll be there? There's no point in having a strategy in how to deal with this in realtime, you're evidently physically compromised due to your RA and he's a bully so I think complete avoidance is your best bet. The situation as it is is completely intolerable.

Basically, once or twice a year, my sister and some other relatives come to stay. My father comes then, as it's a family gathering. However, my family often go out together during that time - out for dinner or to local attractions, etc - and I don't usually join them because either I don't feel well or there isn't suitable access for me and also I simply don't like going out these days. The thing is, my father never joins my family on these trips either, so everyone just goes out and leaves me alone with him. While they are out he is bothering me constantly, grabbing me, kissing me and the rest of the time he is just slobbing out on the sofa wearing nothing but his underwear, which disgusts me.

Due to my illnesses, I haven't socialised in years. I've lost all contact with my friends. I've had no real contact with anyone but my family in years, so I have no friends to go and stay with. and of course I have no money to go and stay anywhere else. The thing that I would like to discuss is exactly what words I should use towards my father to make this stop. He obviously knows I don't like it as I am literally pulling away and pushing him off when he does this. However, if I say something like "From now on you no longer have my permission to kiss or touch me in any way" he will get offended, tell my mum and she will probably scream at me for making a fuss about nothing. I just want somebody to think of a way of saying that that makes it very clear that he may no longer touch me, but that he can't take offence to.

Minera

Ok you need to get out of there for a week once or twice a year why don't u apply for a respite grant for your mum not you. Dress it up as a break for her, so she can have some time off from caring for you when the family are there. This might mean you go to a care facility or nursing home for the week get in contact with a charity associated with your disease or a carers charity/ group. It's they only way I can see you getting out of your situation without offending any family members. You dont need social workers to help its all online and you never know you may meet people your own age who are going through the same illness.

I just want to add that this is not the advice I want to give I want to say report him shout the abuse from the rooftops but obviously the op does not feel she is in that position! Get councelling op I think you need it!

Gongoozler

If you are literally batting him off you, why on earth would you think he'll take any notice of something you say?

There is nothing you can say here, except to maybe tell him you'll be calling the guards if he persists, so you really need to consider the other options that people here are pointing out to you.

LegacyUser

My advise to you would be quite simple. I would tell him, very calmly, that if he does not stop, you will call the guards and report him for his behaviour. If he laughs it off, I would call them right there and then in front of him (or even pretend to but enough to frighten him).

Neyite

hemakesmesick wrote: »

Basically, once or twice a year, my sister and some other relatives come to stay. My father comes then, as it's a family gathering. However, my family often go out together during that time - out for dinner or to local attractions, etc - and I don't usually join them because either I don't feel well or there isn't suitable access for me and also I simply don't like going out these days. The thing is, my father never joins my family on these trips either, so everyone just goes out and leaves me alone with him. While they are out he is bothering me constantly, grabbing me, kissing me and the rest of the time he is just slobbing out on the sofa wearing nothing but his underwear, which disgusts me.

He stays at home because its his chance to molest you.

wrote:

Due to my illnesses, I haven't socialised in years. I've lost all contact with my friends. I've had no real contact with anyone but my family in years, so I have no friends to go and stay with. and of course I have no money to go and stay anywhere else. The thing that I would like to discuss is exactly what words I should use towards my father to make this stop. He obviously knows I don't like it as I am literally pulling away and pushing him off when he does this. However, if I say something like "From now on you no longer have my permission to kiss or touch me in any way" he will get offended, tell my mum and she will probably scream at me for making a fuss about nothing. I just want somebody to think of a way of saying that that makes it very clear that he may no longer touch me, but that he can't take offence to.

He will get offended no matter what way that you phrase it because he knows that your mother who is his enabler will feel obliged to berate you for it. So he not only gets the kick out of molesting you but also when you are getting told off for complaining about it.

What about confiding in your sister or one of the relatives that come to stay? Would you get support from any of them, do you think?

As a rather lame suggestion, all I could suggest is that if you are alone with him in the near future, that you set up a webcam or something so that you have visual proof, should you decide to tell your sister/ other relative /social worker.

I'm hesitant to ask you OP, but are you not afraid that he'll get braver in his assaults and go further than kissing and groping?

quickbeam

hemakesmesick wrote: »

However, if I say something like "From now on you no longer have my permission to kiss or touch me in any way" he will get offended, tell my mum and she will probably scream at me for making a fuss about nothing. I just want somebody to think of a way of saying that that makes it very clear that he may no longer touch me, but that he can't take offence to.

Sorry to tell you OP, there are no such words. If your actions aren't clear to him then no words will get the message across either.

You might consider showing your mother this thread which shows dozens of others confirming that this IS a big deal, so her assertion that you're just making a fuss can be refuted. I know that's probably a big ask for you, as she's not the most trusted person in your life either.

I would follow up on some of the suggestions already mentioned here about other avenues you could take with regard to reporting him. If one avenue closes, try another. There has to be somebody there who will support you. I dare say any of the people posting here would be happy to come stay with you any time to avoid you being left alone with him.

Faith

hemakesmesick wrote: »

However, if I say something like "From now on you no longer have my permission to kiss or touch me in any way" he will get offended, tell my mum and she will probably scream at me for making a fuss about nothing.

So what? Is your mother shouting worse than your father sexually abusing you?

My advice initially was to tell him to immediately desist, or you would report him to police. However, my fear is that he would physically assault you at that point, or the threat would cause him to escalate in other ways.

I think the best thing that you can do is tell your mother. You're putting yourself in harm's way the longer you try to deal with this yourself. Tell your mother, and if she doesn't respond, you need to go report him to the police and social workers. You cannot stay in a situation where you are being abused, no matter how infrequently it happens.

If a child told you that their parent was sexually abusing them, how would you react? What would you tell them to do? Think about that, and then apply it to your own situation. Your mother getting upset or agitated is not worse than sexual abuse.

coolcat63

You poor love. On a practical front get a lock on your door ASAP - a strong bolt or even a wedge of wood that will prevent him opening the door. If he does get in try to record the assault (and it IS an assault) on your phone as evidence to take to social services/the guards. And Tabasco on your neck.

njs030

I agree with others posts about asking for help but you've asked for practical help so I suggest covering your face and neck in a layer of sudocreme, if anyone asks say you read it helps to keep skin clear. Or Vicks and say you have a cold coming.

neemish

OP, what benefits are you on? Or does your mother receive a carers grant? If so, you may be entitled to a respite grant of €1300, which is payed out each June. This can be used in any way you like so perhaps you could go away for the time your father is at home.

I know this may not seem like a great option but many religious groups offer special places for sick pilgrims. You would be looked after royally for the week, with doctors nurses carers etc there to help you. As I say, this may not appeal to you but in the short term, it could be an option.


I think long term you may need some help with this issue. If the social workers aren't able to help, would you consider counselling? There are services over the internet now, and this could help you look at long term solutions rather than how to get out of the house twice a year. If your mother isn't willing to protect you from abuse, is she really the one you want looking after you? You ARE entitled to benefits. If your disability is of a certain level, you are entitled to Disability Benefit (as opposed to Disability Allowance if you have been working). And there may be other supports out there that you just haven't heard of. Talk to your local Community Welfare Officer.

I know this all may sound very harsh, especially with the depression, but honestly the help is there if you ask for it. Is the situation you are in really the one you want to be in in ten years time? I'm not saying move out. I'm saying look for the benefits that you are entitled to as an adult. That's a start. And see where it goes from there. Do you have a sibling/cousin/GP who could help you with filling in forms or bringing you to see the CWO?

LegacyUser

neemish wrote: »

I think long term you may need some help with this issue. If the social workers aren't able to help, would you consider counselling? There are services over the internet now, and this could help you look at long term solutions rather than how to get out of the house twice a year. If your mother isn't willing to protect you from abuse, is she really the one you want looking after you? You ARE entitled to benefits. If your disability is of a certain level, you are entitled to Disability Benefit (as opposed to Disability Allowance if you have been working). And there may be other supports out there that you just haven't heard of. Talk to your local Community Welfare Officer.

I know this all may sound very harsh, especially with the depression, but honestly the help is there if you ask for it. Is the situation you are in really the one you want to be in in ten years time? I'm not saying move out. I'm saying look for the benefits that you are entitled to as an adult. That's a start. And see where it goes from there. Do you have a sibling/cousin/GP who could help you with filling in forms or bringing you to see the CWO?

The help is NOT there in my experience, and actually, I'd love counselling. I live in England, btw, not Ireland. I just found this website looking for somewhere to ask for advice. As I said, I've already explained my situation to social services and they were unhelpful. I've asked my GP for help too. They referred me for counselling two years ago and I'm still on the waiting list.

I've thought about it and realised that there are also two things that make me stay at home - 1 my elderly dog who nobody would look after if I wasn't here and who I would miss <Mod Snip> 2 - I am so brain foggy and exhausted all the time, I could not cope with paying bills and filling out forms and stuff. It's been hard to get help previously, it will be impossible now under a tory government. They are sending cancer sufferers back to work and they are dying at their desks. They aren't going to take my problems seriously.

I've decided that I will broach the subject of my father's kisses with my mother tonight. However, I am unsure how to go about it, as my mother takes everything as a personal attack, and gets very angry. The simplest request from me turns into a screaming match from her. Can somebody help me phrase it in a way that doesn't make it sound like an attack on her or my father, in a way that doesn't make it seem like I'm accusing him of anything inappropriate, but makes it clear that I need her help to make this stop?

nikkibikki

OP for the good of your mental health, I think you need to look into getting out of this house. Some sort of an assisted living arrangement. Please, please, please talk to a social worker. Copy and paste your post here if you want and email it to them. I know it's quite a morbid thing to say but your mother won't be around forever to help with your mobility issues. And the older she gets, the less able for it she will be also.

Are you aware of Arthritis Ireland OP? There's also a Facebook page which I am on (I have a form of arthritis too) for arthritis sufferers under 50. I find I get great support there. I would assume having RA that you are under the care of a rheumatologist and those units usually have a specialised nurse in them. Can you speak to yours?? All this stress can't be helping your physical or mental health. And I don't just mean the 1 or 2 weeks a year your Dad comes to stay. I get the impression that as much as a help your Mam is with you physically, that's about it. I know the unknown is scary OP, but it sounds like you are utterly miserable and you are so young. RA is a hard disease to live with but you have arthritis, arthritis doesn't have you.

quickbeam

hemakesmesick wrote: »

Can somebody help me phrase it in a way that doesn't make it sound like an attack on her or my father, in a way that doesn't make it seem like I'm accusing him of anything inappropriate, but makes it clear that I need her help to make this stop?

"Mum, when the family comes to stay and you and the rest head out, dad comes in to my room and kisses me in a way I don't like. I've asked him to stop and he won't, and I'm not strong enough to physically stop him. I really need your support on this the next time he comes to stay. Can you, or one of the rest of the family ensure I'm not left alone with him, please. You may think I'm over-reacting, but I really find the situation uncomfortable and am asking you to support me on this one."